Maleficent Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 we all like to work on our abs don't we? Well, I just had an appointment with a sports medicine specialist and he advised me to stop doing situps because the movement is actually really bad for the spine. He told me abs strenghtening movements should be done keeping our back straight/flat. Interesting huh? Link to post Share on other sites
robaday Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Yeah most people these days say sit ups are really bad for the spine. I've done them all my life and am happy with the outcome:) however I think there's defo truth in what they are saying. There are loads of alternatives though - plank, side plank, leg raises, mountain climbers etc etc.... Link to post Share on other sites
Robert Z Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 we all like to work on our abs don't we? Well, I just had an appointment with a sports medicine specialist and he advised me to stop doing situps because the movement is actually really bad for the spine. He told me abs strenghtening movements should be done keeping our back straight/flat. Interesting huh? Yes, situps have been out for quite some time now. From what I understand, crunches are the preferred option. But your specialist would seem to disagree. Leg lifts! Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 High knees! High knees! Link to post Share on other sites
Emilia Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Just do lots of planks, side planks and variations of these like like pillar to plank 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Taramere Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Just do lots of planks, side planks and variations of these like like pillar to plank The plank is a killer! I had a series of personal training sessions last year, and I bloody hated that plank. Though after a few sessions it got much easier. She made me do press ups too. At the start of the sessions I could barely do three. After a few sessions I was up to ten. But that plank....ugh. Apparently very good for core strength though. Link to post Share on other sites
EasyHeart Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Meh. It's just the latest fad. Twenty+ years ago it was, "OMG, you must do cruches! Situps are bad for you!" now it's "OMG, you must do planks! Crunches are bad for you!" The big problem with situps is that people do way too many of them. I hear about/see people doing hundreds of situps and I can't help thinking they're crazy. I can see how doing hundreds of situps would put horrible strain on your lower back. The "secret" to doing situps is an incline board. If you're doing them on the floor, you'll never get stronger abs. You're just wasting your time and probably hurting your back. If you're doing more than a few sets of 12, you're doing it wrong (and most people would be fine with one set). And if you want visible abs, the ONLY way to do that is to lose weight. It's the layer of fat on your belly that's covering them up; it's not a lack of muscle. If you want to see pictures of people with "great" abs, just look up pictures of concentration camp survivors. (and I'm guessing they did neither planks, crunches or situps) 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Robert Z Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Meh. It's just the latest fad. Twenty+ years ago it was, "OMG, you must do cruches! Situps are bad for you!" now it's "OMG, you must do planks! Crunches are bad for you!" We are learning a lot about fitness and nutrition. You are dissing progress. Yes, the story changes as we learn more... because we learn more. No doubt that sit ups are bad for your back. My only back injury over the last year resulted from doing sit ups. I knew better but did them anyway, and I paid the price. That set me back for almost a month. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
EasyHeart Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 We are learning a lot about fitness and nutrition. You are dissing progress. Yes, the story changes as we learn more... because we learn more. Because I doubt it's really progress. It's just the latest craze and will be replaced by something else when planks become unhip. No doubt that sit ups are bad for your back. My only back injury over the last year resulted from doing sit ups. I knew better but did them anyway, and I paid the price. That set me back for almost a month.Then the problem wasn't really the situps, was it? Link to post Share on other sites
Author Maleficent Posted February 19, 2015 Author Share Posted February 19, 2015 Yeah I totally went to a sport medicine doctor to ask him how to get ripped. lol Anyhow, I'm gonna go with what he says and avoid situp\crunches from now on. I'm seeing a physiotherapist in a few days for core strength exercises Link to post Share on other sites
Emilia Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 The plank is a killer! I had a series of personal training sessions last year, and I bloody hated that plank. Though after a few sessions it got much easier. She made me do press ups too. At the start of the sessions I could barely do three. After a few sessions I was up to ten. But that plank....ugh. Apparently very good for core strength though. Very good and tough when you do them properly - a suprisingly small number of people do. Most allow their butt to stick up or their belly to sag. It's amazing what side planks have done to my waist line, highly recommend them. Link to post Share on other sites
Under The Radar Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 (edited) The situp, for most people, is not an inherently dangerous exercise ...... it's not that black and white. The situp becomes a problem when improper form is used ...... in conjunction with overtraining the movement pattern (trunk flexion) ...... and failure to develop balanced strength in the antagonistic musculature (not programming lower back exercises into a training routine). The research that popularized planks in the fitness industry was conducted by Stuart McGill, a Professor of Kinesiology at The University of Waterloo. His books "Low Back Disorders" and "Ultimate Back Fitness and Performance" are excellent. I would recommend those two textbooks to anyone interested in learning more about spinal pathology. As a result, the situp as an exercise has been condemned by many personal trainers, physical therapists, and doctors. As mentioned earlier, if the exercise is performed in flawless form, not over utilized, and rounded out with spinal extension exercise ...... it will be safe for most individuals. Too many people, when doing situps, execute the movement ballistically ...... bouncing in and out of position rapidly. The exercise done with the hands placed behind the head (prisoner position) will load the lower back more than arms crossed at the chest (mummy position). In fact, the U.S. Military still teaches and trains the movement in the unsafest way it can be done ...... ballistically, frequently, and done in high volume. If an individual performs the movement with the hands placed behind the head ...... the neck should not be jerked or pulled on ...... which many people do. As well, the straight leg version of the situp will load the lower back to a far greater degree than the bent knee version (especially if done on a Roman Chair). Many people in an effort to emulsify abdominal fat will perform countless situps in hopes that it will trim up their waistline ...... so, pattern overload occurs (trunk flexion) and they put an inordinate amount of stress on the lumbar discs. Instead of adopting a sound nutritional regimen they try to out exercise a bad diet. Research has shown time and again that spot reduction is a physiological impossibility. If the situp was the lower back wrecker it has been purported to be then most of us would be crippled by this point in our lives. Most people, including myself, require the situp every morning when we raise ourselves up from a supine position in bed (trunk flexion). I've been getting out of bed this way since I could walk ...... as has everyone I know ...... and we have yet to herniate a disc as a result of "sitting up" every week, month, and year that goes by. At it's core (pun intended) trunk flexion is a basic human movement pattern that most people need on a daily basis ...... much like walking and squatting. That being said, I do not place situps close to optimal when choosing effective isolation exercise for the abdominal muscles. The biggest reasons are: 1. Even done correctly it does place more stress on the lumbar discs. I prefer to save my lower back (and that of people I teach) for exercises such as squats, straddle lifts, and deadlifts. I wouldn't want situps to cut into my recovery time for other valuable exercises that require a strong lower back. 2. The situp does not target the lower abdominal wall as well as various leg raises, reverse crunches, planks, and jackknives/abdominal wheel (dynamic planks). Most people tend to depot more fat in the lower abdominal region ...... not the upper. Though we cannot spot reduce I have found that placing more tension on the lower stomach has a firming effect (by building muscle) that creates the appearance of less fat even if subcutaneous body fat exists in that area. My favorite exercise for most beginner and intermediate athletes is the reverse crunch lying on a bench (which gives a full range of motion compared to the floor version). If the individual is strong enough then a medicine ball weighing 4lbs up to 50lbs can be held between the knees. Once someone can perform a front plank for 3 minutes and the side plank for 90 seconds I move them to harder exercises. In fact, if someone can do perfect pushups, that demonstrates mastery of the front plank ...... since one must hold that position to do the exercise correctly. The toughest abdominal exercises in my opinion would be standing abdominal rollouts with the wheel and hanging leg raises with a full range of motion (ankle weights can be employed if body weight is insufficient). Edited February 21, 2015 by Training Revelations 3 Link to post Share on other sites
BlackOpsZombieGirl Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 I've stopped doing the basic sit up decades ago. Instead, I've been doing crunches, which consists of the person's back being flat on the floor with the exception of their legs (which are held at a 90 degree angle and bent) and their head and neck which is gently cradled (NOT supported) by their hands clasped behind their head. I do several different types of crunches to work different sets of muscles in the abdominal area, and each time I've done them, my back does not feel sore like it used to when I did the old fashioned type of sit ups. And another member here was correct when they said that, in addition to doing crunches, the person MUST lose weight in order for them to "see" their six pack (if that's what they're shooting for) or for them to see a flatter abdominal area. . Link to post Share on other sites
thefooloftheyear Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 I dont care what ANY doctor says....If he makes a blanket statement like that, without knowing all of the facts about the individual, he doesnt know what the hell he's talking about.. I have been doing situps for decades, mostly on an incline.....Never had any adverse affects on my back.... When it comes to exercise and form relating to movements, no two individuals are the same...One person can do thousands of situps a week and have no issue, while another can do a set of 20 and be screwed...Its just that simple..There are some stuff that I just dont do, because for some reason, mechanically there is something wrong..It doesnt happen often, but it happens.. If they bother your back, then there is likely a good chance that you(not anyone in particular) have too much stomach fat...Think about trying to fold a piece of cardboard..Now take a deck of cards and try to fold the cardboard over the deck of cards...The cardboard likely will split in the back side..That same stress the cards put on the cardboard is the same stress your gut puts on your back...Once the gut is gone, then no more stress... If you take a look at the best physiques in the gym and the stronger people, they usually belong to the men and women that do basic movements with strict proper form..The same movements that people have been doing for 50+ years... .02 TFY 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Maleficent Posted February 22, 2015 Author Share Posted February 22, 2015 I dont care what ANY doctor says....If he makes a blanket statement like that, without knowing all of the facts about the individual, he doesnt know what the hell he's talking about.. I have been doing situps for decades, mostly on an incline.....Never had any adverse affects on my back.... When it comes to exercise and form relating to movements, no two individuals are the same...One person can do thousands of situps a week and have no issue, while another can do a set of 20 and be screwed...Its just that simple..There are some stuff that I just dont do, because for some reason, mechanically there is something wrong..It doesnt happen often, but it happens.. If they bother your back, then there is likely a good chance that you(not anyone in particular) have too much stomach fat...Think about trying to fold a piece of cardboard..Now take a deck of cards and try to fold the cardboard over the deck of cards...The cardboard likely will split in the back side..That same stress the cards put on the cardboard is the same stress your gut puts on your back...Once the gut is gone, then no more stress... If you take a look at the best physiques in the gym and the stronger people, they usually belong to the men and women that do basic movements with strict proper form..The same movements that people have been doing for 50+ years... .02 TFY Well excuse me for not detailing my medical issues and my appointment with the doc in here... lol Weightlifting targets my lower back a lot and I mentionned in my consultations that I was trying to balance out my core by doing situps and he advised against it. Made a little drawing and everything. I haven't had trouble with situps in the past. People may have been doing these moves for 50+ years, it is possible they just found out that 50+ years of regular situps ****s up your spine...no matter how correct your form is. It's a repetitive movement after all. Link to post Share on other sites
Robert Z Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 (edited) I dont care what ANY doctor says....If he makes a blanket statement like that, without knowing all of the facts about the individual, he doesnt know what the hell he's talking about.. I have been doing situps for decades, mostly on an incline.....Never had any adverse affects on my back.... When it comes to exercise and form relating to movements, no two individuals are the same...One person can do thousands of situps a week and have no issue, while another can do a set of 20 and be screwed...Its just that simple..There are some stuff that I just dont do, because for some reason, mechanically there is something wrong..It doesnt happen often, but it happens.. If they bother your back, then there is likely a good chance that you(not anyone in particular) have too much stomach fat...Think about trying to fold a piece of cardboard..Now take a deck of cards and try to fold the cardboard over the deck of cards...The cardboard likely will split in the back side..That same stress the cards put on the cardboard is the same stress your gut puts on your back...Once the gut is gone, then no more stress... If you take a look at the best physiques in the gym and the stronger people, they usually belong to the men and women that do basic movements with strict proper form..The same movements that people have been doing for 50+ years... .02 TFY With a 34 inch waist I'm not fighting belly fat but I do have a history of back injuries. I thought that after getting stronger I could handle the sit ups but apparently not so. It only took two sit ups and I felt pain! It almost knocked me out of my routine. Given that 2/3 of the population has excess belly fat, and given that up to 85% of the population has back pain at some time in their life, it is reasonable to assume that you are the exception to the rule. Although doctors of chiropractic treat more than just back pain, a large percentage of chiropractic patients visit their doctor looking for relief from this pervasive condition. In fact, 70 to 85 percent of all people have back pain at some time in their life. http://www.acatoday.org/pdf/back_pain.pdf I would also bet that the length of the torso could be significant to the chances of a back injury. Edited February 22, 2015 by Robert Z Link to post Share on other sites
dichotomy Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 I have had modest back issues for a long time. Situps and laying leg lifts - will cause issues for me. So many ways to target that area though. I do like planks, side planks, and hanging leg lifts (or captain chair lifts), and bird dogs. Link to post Share on other sites
CrystalShine2011 Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Interesting... Link to post Share on other sites
fitnessfan365 Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Yep. I have all my clients steer clear of sit-ups and crunches because they're bad for your neck and back. Instead, it's better to work your core naturally through strength training. Squats, lunges, deadlifts, pull-ups, overhead military press, etc work your entire core. Also, there are exercises you can do from a plank position that are great as well. Finally, sprinting is GREAT for the abs. Granted, you have to be in condition first before you start doing sprints. But if you've been working out for awhile and are in relatively great shape, do sprints a few times a week. After a dynamic warm up, sprint all out for 100 yards, walk back for recovery and repeat. 20-30 minutes of this is a fantastic workout. It's even better when sprinting on a hill. Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts