Did I ultimately ruin the marriage?

[harrybrown]

Sorry for all your pain.

 

But it is too bad that you did not make ground rules, and also that this other man did not take you to a motel.

 

Where were your children?

 

So if the roles were reversed, what would you want him to do?

 

Go ahead with the divorce, but he is the father of your child or children.

 

He may say something in the future. So I would think it would be good to have some communication about the situation.

 

At least talk about some of the pain that this will cause. When my wife cheated, I thought that the was the worst thing she could have done and it is a huge betrayal, especially in the home.

 

So how good of a person is the OM? The OM of my friend's wife sexually molested their daughter. So please make sure that this man is a good man before letting him around your children.

 

Good luck to you.

[stopdreaming]

 

I hope to God I'm wrong on this, but it's better to be safe than sorry. Depression is a mental condition and if he has it, it wasn't his fault.

 

Unfortunately, you're not wrong - he is definitely depressed and I agree with you fully that it is an illness and not his fault. However, (and I'm sorry there is a "but" here), his lies weren't just simple lies like, 'yes i pad the bills' (although a lie i heard enough), his lies went deep. They were clever and intelligent like creating fake email addresses, talking on the phone when there was no one there, made fake receipts to prove payments, etc. These are just a few. His identical twin, unfortunately, is a sociopath so the idea of him being like his brother were (and is) alarming.

 

I guess my question is, say it is just depression and not something likely not curable such as a sociopath, does this warrant forgiveness? does it make it all that he has done okay? at the time this was all happening i never deduced it to being depression because he was SO GOOD at pretending all is GREAT!

 

I think I have my answer here through your probing, and you may disagree with it, but I'm starting to feel the knots unravel slightly - He very well could have been depressed and he very well could be coming out of it. I poorly handled my departure with having that man in my home. I made poor decisions and should have taken care of this in a far more intelligent and graceful manor. For this, I'm terrible sorry. I don't agree with forgiving yourself and then moving on. I did something really awful and will need to live with it for the rest of my life. My H whether clinically depressed or not also failed himself and us and I don't fault him, he was incapable for whatever the reasons, but ultimately this marriage is indeed over. It's just an unfortunate that our eyes couldn't meet and our minds couldn't communicate. We missed the opportunity to make it right and the reasons aren't fully apparent now, but with time, it will become more clear.

[stillafool]

Nope. He would have kept messing up. I'm almost certain about this. You're not missing out on anything. Enjoy your new romance, I hope he treats you well.

 

I agree you did the right thing. He may just be saying all this stuff to make you think he is changing when in fact he is not. He wants to blame you for the fall of your marriage.

[Chi townD]

Unfortunately, you're not wrong - he is definitely depressed and I agree with you fully that it is an illness and not his fault. However, (and I'm sorry there is a "but" here), his lies weren't just simple lies like, 'yes i pad the bills' (although a lie i heard enough), his lies went deep. They were clever and intelligent like creating fake email addresses, talking on the phone when there was no one there, made fake receipts to prove payments, etc. These are just a few. His identical twin, unfortunately, is a sociopath so the idea of him being like his brother were (and is) alarming.

 

I guess my question is, say it is just depression and not something likely not curable such as a sociopath, does this warrant forgiveness? does it make it all that he has done okay? at the time this was all happening i never deduced it to being depression because he was SO GOOD at pretending all is GREAT!

 

I think I have my answer here through your probing, and you may disagree with it, but I'm starting to feel the knots unravel slightly - He very well could have been depressed and he very well could be coming out of it. I poorly handled my departure with having that man in my home. I made poor decisions and should have taken care of this in a far more intelligent and graceful manor. For this, I'm terrible sorry. I don't agree with forgiving yourself and then moving on. I did something really awful and will need to live with it for the rest of my life. My H whether clinically depressed or not also failed himself and us and I don't fault him, he was incapable for whatever the reasons, but ultimately this marriage is indeed over. It's just an unfortunate that our eyes couldn't meet and our minds couldn't communicate. We missed the opportunity to make it right and the reasons aren't fully apparent now, but with time, it will become more clear.

 

Okay, you want to move on then move. All I'm saying is that he might have an exit date. And whether you care or not, you need to look out for it. If anything, for the sake of your kid.

[Spectre]

Lady, if you loved your husband you wouldn't of been banging another man. Nothing more that needs to be said, you filing for divorce did your husband a huge favor.

 

To answer your question though: both you and your husband played a part in ruining your marriage.

 

 

Nope. He would have kept messing up. I'm almost certain about this. You're not missing out on anything. Enjoy your new romance, I hope he treats you well.

 

You mean enjoy the new romance with the utter piece of trash who screws a married woman? You want her to enjoy THAT romance?

[stopdreaming]

Okay, you want to move on then move. All I'm saying is that he might have an exit date. And whether you care or not, you need to look out for it. If anything, for the sake of your kid.

 

are you referring to what I think you are referring to? I can't even write it….

[Spectre]

Eh, if he's saying what I think he is saying I think that might be jumping the gun a bit. Obviously you never know with people, but come on now..this guy had to walk in on his wife and another man..just after they got done banging. Yeah, walking in on your wife after she has just cheated on you and shown she has no love or respect for you..is going to throw anyone for a loop.

 

Here is the other problem, since you cheated on him and betrayed him..it's going to be next to impossible for you to even really talk to him about any issues he has, since you will be the last one he will ever want to talk to about that now. I'd be surprised if he would ever open up to you again.

[stopdreaming]

Eh, if he's saying what I think he is saying I think that might be jumping the gun a bit. Obviously you never know with people, but come on now..this guy had to walk in on his wife and another man..just after they got done banging. Yeah, walking in on your wife after she has just cheated on you and shown she has no love or respect for you..is going to throw anyone for a loop.

 

Here is the other problem, since you cheated on him and betrayed him..it's going to be next to impossible for you to even really talk to him about any issues he has, since you will be the last one he will ever want to talk to about that now. I'd be surprised if he would ever open up to you again.

 

your remarks and responses are bordering an excessive and unnecessary tone and i'm not trying to be combative here. I get it and as i work through this, i'm understanding what I did was wrong. BUT I DID NOT CHEAT ON MY HUSBAND! we were bound together by a piece of paper. I 100% know that my timing to be with another man and how my husband found out was pitiful, but my husband step outside of this marriage three years ago. i stood by him through all the hardship of his lies and with confrontation upon confrontation from his partners, friends and colleagues AND FAMILY! I was taking care of two children for three years, he being one of those children. I was a walking zombie working nearly day and night to support my family. For the last year of our living together I never, not once, lead him to believe that I was still in the game with him and ready to work even harder than I had been. for 1.5 years I was begging him to find a job and to then move out. It was over then. So, before you go on your rant about how disgusting i was to cheat on my husband, read the whole story first. You are wrong. AND to add to your wrong-doing and accusations, let ms say that my husband and i are in contact daily sharing anecdotes about our son or photos from our time with him. We are, in ways, helping one another through this. Last night we sat in my car crying and holding hands. We are two compassionate, intelligent humans trying to cope, manage and cherish whatever is salvageable in this relationship all for the sake of our son and the pureness of our love for one another regardless of how we may have hurt one another. This could be a whole new ballgame once we dive fully into this divorce as I'm certain new emotions will arise, but right not, we are coping and keeping compassion at the forefront.

 

hey, i appreciate all of this feedback, but the feedback that will resonate with me most is one coming from a constructive, high-minded place. This feedback will resonate with me coming from those who have experienced something similar. Have you ever been truly in love or married? Have you ever felt love from the depths of your mind and heart? If you can answer yes to any of this, then perhaps I can accept your view differently, but from what I'm gathering, I beg to differ. I'm not looking for a response here in the slightest.

[Mal78]

When someone shows you over and over again who they really are. Believe them.

 

I imagine you love the fantasy of what it should have been. I bet you loath the reality of what it is.

 

This is reality, sounds like you are making the *right* decision for your family. Don't let him lie/manipulate his way back to "his world", that world is lala land and is going no where.... fast.

[Mal78]

Several times I have been at the butt end of someone else's mental illness. You can (out of love) bring a horse to water but can't force them to drink.

 

I don't believe one must endure abuse and torture under the "mental illness hat". No, it's not their fault. I agree wholeheartly. However it's not anyone else's either. It is especially tormenting when it's someone you love and you have exhausted all avenues and sometimes endure years of abuse to maintain their innocence from the mental illness. You eventually have to ask yourself, is it worth my mental stability, health and happiness?

 

Sometimes the painstaking answer is, "No".

[endlessabyss]

I'd like to hear his side.

 

 

Your story doesn't sound very believable to me. You, the perfect angel, the victim; him the devil, abuser, and liar.

 

 

Now you feel guilty he saw you with some old guy you're sleeping with, you hurry up and take the kid, since you have exposed yourself, file for divorce.....

 

 

My personal take, this is all an fabricated story, with a kernel of truth.

[Chi townD]

Exit from this world. End his life? Then yes!

 

 

Given what you've written it is not outside the realm of possibility. Think about it. He lost everything. His family, his home, you replaced him with another man and he lost his marriage. He lost it all. What does he have? Nothing. He has a crappy ass job that he hates and a crappy ass apartment that he hates.

 

 

When he caught you with another man, he was very hurt and upset. But, then you wrote that he became cordial and accepting of everything shortly thereafter. You saw a change in him, that it look like he was getting his act together. He told you that he's seeing a therapist, but that might be a lie so you would worry about him. Let me ask you this, did he seem a little more at ease with everything? People that plan to commit suicide tend to be happy, more relaxed and at peace towards the end because they finally made the decision to end their pain.

 

 

Now, spectre says that I might be jumping the gun and I pray that he's right. But, given everything he's lost, the amount of pain he's in and his family history of mental health issues....all I'm saying is you to keep and eye out. I gave you an example to watch out for in my other post. If your son comes home from a visit with him and he has a trinket or token from him that has some sentimental value, then that's not good. That means it's going to happen soon. People that are going to off themselves tend to give away objects that are special to them. Something to remember them by. So, it could be a photo of them together or a lucky rabbit's foot that he had as a kid or something stupid like that.

 

 

Now, I'm only gleaning this from your posts and BEFORE EVERYONE JUMPS ALL OVER MY SH*T ON THIS THREAD, let me give you a little background. When I was doing clinical rotations at school, I had to do a stint in the Psych Department doing intake interviews for people that may be suicidal or have suicidal ideations. I did not treat these people, only gathered information for the residents to treat them. Psych is not my area of expertise, but I have a familiarity with the signs and symptoms.

 

 

So, I might be WAY OFF base, but if your feel that I might be onto something, then you need to talk to a professional about this. If he isn't lying about the counselor, then contact him or her and let them know your concerns. If he did lie, then contact his family members.

[stopdreaming]

So, I might be WAY OFF base, but if your feel that I might be onto something, then you need to talk to a professional about this. If he isn't lying about the counselor, then contact him or her and let them know your concerns. If he did lie, then contact his family members.

 

Thank you. I will certainly be observant and very alert. Thanks again for everything.

[flowergirl14]

You and your responses have been incredibly helpful and thought provoking for me. You've clearly been through some of your own battles and have risen above with wisdom and hopefully happiness. Thank you for continuously responding to me.

 

 

I'm pro marriage too and if i didn't feel so intensely strong and devoted about it i would have thrown in the towel after the first year. I have not even shared the depths of his lies and what it did to me. it was absolutely, insanely, awful. BUT i had love for him and compassion and belief, and after each lie the belief started to lessen and lessen, yet the love and compassion remained. so strange, but it did. It's that that keeps me in question. I still love him. BUT I had enough and I gave up, without my telling him, all the while he was coming through the dark and feeling better, without him telling me, and we passed one another on the road with our high beams on. It was just too late.

 

What I did was so wrong, I know this. I'm so sorry that that is the image he has of me. I'm so sorry for the thoughts I put into his memory. I am sorry that I did that in our home. For all of this - I am so sorry. Even after all he has done to himself, me and our family I never, ever wanted revenge - only love and health and happiness.

 

Your remorse is refreshing and I believe authentic. I hear it in your words. The lying is what destroys marriages wether there was an A or not. Finally you drew a line in the sand and said "no more." Having true remorse for hurting your husband shows that you are a good person who perhaps made a bad choice. I think you would have stayed with him until the end had there not been the lying. Do you feel he has been remorseful for all the cr*p he put you through? One other thing to think about is that the abused often want to protect the abuser even in the face of horrific events. ( Think kidnap victims) You have been abused and the effects on you will probably be long lasting. Good luck in your journey to find a happy life.

[MJJean]

To answer your question though: both you and your husband played a part in ruining your marriage.

 

You mean enjoy the new romance with the utter piece of trash who screws a married woman? You want her to enjoy THAT romance?

 

 

I have to disagree. The OP did NOT ruin her marriage. One cannot be married to a chronic liar who is financially irresponsible and who pulls things like faking phone conversations and makes fake receipts to cover their trail. It's an impossible situation.

 

I was married to a man like that.

 

He spent the insurance money and claimed to have paid the bill. I got into an accident and, of course, found out the policy was cancelled a few months later when I was sued for $7,000 and lost my license until I could pay it.

 

My power and heat were turned off out of the blue in the winter because he faked paying the utility bills. We had two children in the house and it took over a month before the bill could be paid.

 

My credit is shot because he not only ran up debt I didn't know about in his name during the marriage, but he did some in my name without my knowledge or consent, too.

 

He committed all kinds of fraud, but it was against family and they wouldn't prosecute him.

 

Even after I was hiding any money we did have and handling every detail or our lives myself for fear he's do something stupid, he'd find a way to do something stupid almost like it was a compulsion. I spent more time checking up on him, supervising him, and putting out fires he started than I did raising my actual children.

 

Just a few small examples out of thousands.

 

It really is not possible to have any kind of normal life or anything resembling a marriage with a person who you simply cannot trust to handle simple tasks, to not cause financial chaos when you aren't looking, and who you cannot believe a word they say about pretty much anything.

 

Having been married to a man like that I can say from experience it's mind blowing how they think and behave. I wouldn't believe half of what my ex did if it didn't happen to me.

 

Was the OP wrong for seeing this new guy? It depends. If the husband knew the marriage was over in all but name, I say no. If he thought they were going to stay married and work it out, then yes.

 

I don't think location matters. If they are separated and she is maintaining the house as her residence she has every right to invite over whoever she wants. He can get upset, but the bottom line is that he doesn't live there anymore. It's his former home. Former. It's her current home.

 

Why shouldn't she enjoy her new romance? If she wants to date this new guy I say go for it! The marriage is over other than the paperwork. There is a difference between dating someone who is married and dating someone separated and in process of getting a divorce.

[TrustedthenBusted]

To me. Separated = Divorced without the paperwork.

[elaine567]

For the past three years my husband has lied to me. It started a year before my son was born. He lied to me about everything from our finances to his work situation to paying our car insurance where in fact it was not paid and our licenses were suspended and our car registration revoked for 6 months. He made up fake receipts, wrote checks from my checkbook without my knowledge, lied about seeing a therapist, going to work, taking care of household duties, etc. He ultimately destroyed his business by betraying his partner with lies upon lies, colleagues and even friends. his partner, friends and colleagues would ultimately come to me for assistance with getting through to him. I was mortified and destroyed. He was out of work for 2 years and lied about finding a job while I worked my ass off to support our family.

 

^^^^^In bold is what ruined your marriage.

Move on with a clear conscience.

He is not going to change, without a vast amount of work on his part and I doubt he could ever actually win your trust back.

You would always be worrying as to whether whatever he said to you was the truth, and that is no way to live.

Look after yourself and your son and don't look back is my advice here.

[badkarma2013]

To me. Separated = Divorced without the paperwork.

 

Absolutely ....How many stories on this forum have to do with trial seperation..

(now only speaking as a BH)...goes on for months and one spouse find outs the other is and has been engaged in and Affair...How Many...probably most..

 

I say Affair because you are Still married...

 

You sir are indeed correct. Separated = Divorced without the paperwork.

[drifter777]

To me. Separated = Divorced without the paperwork.

I strongly disagree. Many couples choose to separate as a cooling off period during a bad time in their marriage. The intention is to use the time for counseling & reflection to determine whether to give their marriage another shot. No matter the reason for the separation the couple really needs to set the ground rules about seeing other people or not. It avoids precisely this scenario.

[gettingstronger]

It doesn't sound like you two were good for each other. Sure, you have regrets and fears but in the end, it seems like you had a marriage that just didn't work.

[autumnnight]

Why are you happy about that? For someone to ease your guilt?

 

 

Look, thinking on this for a little bit. You're thinking about yourself and no one else. Have you even considered that your husband may have been suffering from severe depression for years? One thing about people with depression, they're not "go getters" Hell, they can barely get out of bed most of the time and they tend not to take care of things their responsible for and lie about it when asked. Maybe you've never seen it but he could be hitting a hellva lot of benchmarks. Lets take a look

 

 

Lack of motivation.

 

 

Unable to find the energy or the will to take care of things they're suppose to.

 

 

lack of sex drive.

 

 

seems unhappy (to which you probably took as unhappy with you and or the marriage, but they're probably just not happy in general)

 

 

Increase in alcohol intake and possibly dabbling with drugs.

 

 

Not motivated to do things and isolate themselves from others.

 

 

Doesn't find enjoyment in things that they used to enjoy.

 

 

Unable to express their feelings or even tell you why they feel the way they do.

 

 

Close themselves off from others.

 

 

Does any of that sound familiar to you? If it does, then he's probably suffering from severe depression and has been for years.

 

 

Now, here comes the scary part. After he caught you cheating on him. You didn't write that he was trying to beg and plead to work things out, but rather became cordial with you after a period of time. Normally, people would be so pissed off and would remain that way for a long while. He shouldn't want anything to do with you and would only want to communicate with you about your kid and nothing else. But, you said you saw a difference in him. Why? I mean, let look at what he has going on right now.

 

 

He hates his job.

 

 

He hates where he lives.

 

 

He lost his family.

 

 

He lost friendships.

 

 

He lost his home.

 

 

He came home one day and found a man sitting with his wife enjoying a meal at the table he used to sit at after he just got done having sex with his wife in the bed that he used to sleep in. You shown him that he is disposable and easily replaced.

 

 

He has NOTHING positive in his life right now. Now, you can come back at me and say that he does have something positive and that would be his son. But, you've already shown him that he is replaceable as a husband, he probably thinks you probably already have a replacement father figure for him. Someone that probably has better means to provide for his son than he can.

 

 

So, after that day, you stated that you've seen a change in him. Progress and he seems a bit more at ease. Why? I speculate that he finally decided on an exit date and you don't know it. You said that he's seeing a therapist. That might be another lie so you don't worry about him. I mean, given the list of things I just gave you, it isn't beyond the realm of possibility.

 

 

So, keep an eye out. If he drops off your son and he's given him some token or trinket that has sentimental value to him. It could be a picture of them together or even a lucky rabbit foot that he's had since he was a little boy. Then the date is really near. So, if he wasn't lying about the therapist, then you might consider contacting him or her and let them know of your concerns. If he was lying about the therapist, then you need to contact his family members.

 

 

I hope to God I'm wrong on this, but it's better to be safe than sorry. Depression is a mental condition and if he has it, it wasn't his fault.

 

You are excellent. This is the best guilt post I have ever read.

 

OP, what you did WAS cheating because you were still married. But if a grown man is that depressed for that many years, takes it out on you, and will not seek help, the idea that YOU alone are responsible for whatever horrible choice he might make is ridiculous.

[toolforgrowth]

I can't say whether or not you've ruined your marriage, as that's ultimately up to your H. But I can share my story.

 

My xWW chose to separate so she could engage in a PA with a co-worker behind my back. I had suspicions, but no confirmation. Before I had confirmation, I had decided I was 100% going to divorce her. However, the possibility for R was still on the table.

 

Until I found out from her little brother she was indeed humping this guy.

 

That ruined it. I was done with her forever. There was no going back for me. I had already started taking steps to improve my life without her, but that's when the fire lit inside me. I had already been going to therapy, and I continued going well after the divorce. I began talking to an old flame (a woman I knew in high school, we never did anything back then but there was definitely chemistry), and we started seeing each other. I moved back into the empty marital home and made it my own. I became the best dad to my little girl I could possibly be. I was regularly working out. I made new friends, reconnected with old ones, and cultivated an active social life.

 

She noticed. The first weekend after I moved back into my house, she came to pick up our daughter and my ex step daughter. She was dressed to the nines. She wanted me to notice her, and she hung around. She didn't just pick up the girls and leave. She was clearly in no rush to go. We made very small talk about some items at the house she may want to take with her, and she kept staring at me. I gave the girls hugs and kisses, looked her right in the eyes, waved at her, and said "Bye!".

 

Her shoulders literally slumped. That's when she began to realize her plan B wasn't sticking around, and that I was done. When she discovered I was seeing another woman, she reacted...badly.

 

That was three years ago, and I've been done ever since. I keep her at arm's length and out of my life as much as humanly possible. She doesn't like it, in spite of the fact she's remarried, but there's nothing she can do. She is tainted, spoiled, and used in my eyes. The thought of touching her literally made me feel physically ill.

 

I became so much better in so many ways, but her A made sure that she would never get to reap the benefits. That's something that she has to live with for the rest of her life...as do my ex step daughter (who is no longer a part of my life) and our biological daughter, who now has two separate homes.

 

I'm not saying that this will be your experience, or even your husband's. But this is the experience of a man who's been in your husband's shoes. If my xWW had not eschewed therapy, and worked really hard to become better, could there have been a chance at R? I can't really say. But since she didn't do any of things, we'll never find out.

 

And I'm perfectly okay with that.

[road]

Separated is still married. No judge granted the divorce.

 

 

Some wives ask for a separation because there is too much conflict and a cooling off period is needed. Better then fighting all the time. No intentions to cheat.

 

 

Where a BH does not know about the affair many a WW uses we need to separate. This is done so the WW can have an affair without hindrance from her BH and making it easier for the WW to keep the affair hidden.

[happyman64]

stopdreaming

 

 

Just the fact you felt bad makes you realize what you did was wrong.

 

 

You are married.

 

 

You never told your husband the marriage was over and you were moving on so that hurts him.

 

 

But worse than that is you hurt yourself. Because you are a good person. You did love your husband. And I truly believe you wanted your marriage.

 

 

Now before you enter any new relationship sexual or emotional finish off your marriage.

 

 

You owe it to yourself to do it the right way. I understand wanting to be desired and loved.

 

 

But there is a right time and place for everything. Keep being honest with yourself!

 

Good Luck

 

 

HM

[autumnnight]

Cheating was wrong. But how many people apparently did not read his YEARS of lying and such. Apparently a lie only matters if it is about an affair? Or instead of lying being a character flaw it is a cry for help and anti-depressants.

 

I am not surprised but am blown away. Though I'm not sure why I'm blown away either.