Are you living more like roomates with your spouse and raising your children?

[Mom4]

I am approaching my 10 year anniversary. We have 4 children and it has been a long 10 years. Many reasons that I will go into later. I just want to find if there are any other couples out there that are in a marriage and feel disconnected. We have not had sex in almost 2 years... nothing, no hand holding, kissing, hugs, nothing. This is more my fault because I am not attracted to him at all... not at all. I haven't been able to make myself either. I asked him for a divorce last April and he said he has had an "epiphany."

 

I asked for the divorce because of years of mental abuse. He is very successful as was I until I stayed at home. I did IC and MC before I asked for the divorce but it didn't help. He now admits to having depression/anger over our entire marriage. I begged for him to get serious help but the 6 months leading to my asking for a divorce was the end for me. I could't take it anymore and felt nothing. It was then and only then he decided to get help... but it feels all very acted out... afraid to lose me and the kids. I have stayed to try and keep it all together but when he gets in my personal space I cringe. We have done MC for the last year but now we are doing Individual because we couldn't get anywhere. I don't feel anything but fear tearing "the appearance" of my family apart.

 

Is anyone else living like roommates, raising your kids? All my male friends tell me that I am great looking with a great personality. I just fear the destruction of everyone else's lives if I move on.

[blind_otter]

My exHusband (NOT my psycho exBF, who I dated AFTER I split up with exH) -- he had parents like this and it was SO WEIRD. I grew up in a happy house. My Dad is totally enamored of my Mom...kind of gives me unrealistic expectations for relationships because I want to feel cherished...anyways....

 

It kind of had an unexpected backlash on the kids. They have very emotionally uninvolved relationships, themselves. I suppose because that's what they grew up seeing as the "normal" adult relationship.

 

When I was around the couple, I could tell that she loathed her husband, and that he was a total jerk. When I got married, in the pictures, she has this slight frown on her face, and he is drunk and goofy. They never touch, they sleep apart. The whole household seemed like some bizarre bunch of roommates. It was always so....weird. I grew up with a lot of hugging and kissing, my parents would cuddle and hold hands and joke around with each other, sometimes Mom would perch on Dad's lap and he would have an indulgent smile on his face...that's how I am with my dudes, now. Very physically affectionate.

 

You can't live your life for everyone else.

[LucreziaBorgia]

Originally posted by Mom4

Is anyone else living like roommates, raising your kids?

 

I'm a year behind you, and its like that a good deal of the time - but its more from the nature of our relationship than from any dysfunction or dissatisfaction. I get glum from time to time when I feel undesired or unsexy. It fluctuates though, for us - we still do it, but not often, and its good when it does. Should the sex die altogether, our relationship wouldn't. We are still intimate in affectionate ways even when we aren't sexual. I would no more divorce Mr. B than I would divorce my own kid, regardless of what our sex life is like. Secure? Sure. Sad sometimes when I don't feel like a sexual woman anymore? Sure. But I'm happy with him in so many other ways so it isn't that big of a deal to me - sex isn't the crux of what we are about. I'm as happy as a 'roommate' as I am a 'lover' but in different ways because underneath it all we are truly best friends and we like each other outside of our marriage/parenting.

 

It sounds like there are other factors involved in your situation where there isn't enough 'happy' outside of that to keep your marriage going right now. The sex is lacking, but you know what? There is no intimacy either - not even basic physical affection. If there were lots of that, and little or no sex would you still find yourself wanting to leave? It sounds like there are some fundamental things missing that are causing greater and deeper 'disconnects' than just sex and intimacy as well. On the very basic level - way deep down, so you two like each other objectively as people? If you weren't married to or involved with this man as a parent, would you be genuine friends and seek out each other's company to do stuff together? What about the kids? Kids are very, very perceptive and can tell when parents are 'faking it' or when they are unhappy despite best efforts.

 

It is apparent that you don't want to be together, and heaven forbid your kids grow up thinking that marriage is a miserable, obligational trap, where societal 'correctness' outweighs personal happiness (a lesson my parents taught me, but I was thankfully able to unlearn it).

 

What does your therapist think is best to do for you and for them?

[Mom4]

Yes, it is more complicated then that. I got pregnant at age 24 after knowing my husband for 5 weeks and telling me he would "pull out." This was the 3rd time we slept together and He didn't have any protection and sorta pressured me into it anyway. He is 5 years older. I am confident and independent but in this situation I acted pretty weak. Anyway, I don't think I was ever that into him to begin with. We got married 5 months after the baby was born... big wedding, honeymoon, 4 kids, and big house later... I just tried to make it all right for so long. He never checked in. HE was one person at work and another at home. I could go on an on. He says he now realizes that he has felt like this before we met. Here I am 11 years since I got pregnant and not sure who I am anymore or what I want. I feel like I live with a stranger. We communicate best over the phone, because when I see him in person I realize that I don't love him. I care about him. We have traveled recently alone and It felt so awkward.. Would have rather been alone or with my girlfriends. I have a great life otherwise. I have had everyone say... you have it all, what's wrong? They don't live in my house.

 

My children probably don't know any different. I wish they had the opportunity to see a couple in love as a role model. We are both loving with our children.

 

My counseling is every other week for an hour. I needed a place to vent more and get opinions because I can't talk to anyone in my town. I am a visible person and nobody wants( or will let) my castle come down. So I don't talk about it. My mother is very ill and I have no sisters so... it's a lonely place to be. I have a couple close friends but I get tired of it being our conversation.

[RecordProducer]

Love is the best thing that happens to us when we can enjoy it. You deserve to love and be loved too. In your case you have nothing in common with this person. Imagine that you're living without him, what do you feel? Happiness because of the freedom or fear? Would you be able to support yourself and the kids if you divorce him? You would probably get half of all marital assets. Consider all the pro's and con's, but sometimes moving on is the best road to happiness. If you stay, nothing will change. If you move on, things will change.

Regarding the kids, they are probably better off living in the same house with both parents, unless you fight a lot in front of them.

[Ladyjane14]

The lack of feeling that you're experiencing for your husband may have more to do with you than it does with him.

 

It's fairly common for women your age to reach a kind of dissatisfaction with their lives at around 35.....sort of a mini female midlife crisis.

 

You look around and realize that you've reached a mature age, and you're somebody's wife, or somebody's mother....sister, daughter, etc. But you haven't done any of the things that YOU wanted to do, and here you are at a mature age with 40 lurking just around the corner.

 

Look at the user-name you chose...."Mom". You're doing it yourself even....identifying with the role of mother, rather than individualizing the person you are. It's a small thing, but it says alot about how bogged down you probably feel.

 

Look at how trapped you felt by motherhood and marriage:

I got pregnant at age 24 after knowing my husband for 5 weeks and telling me he would "pull out." This was the 3rd time we slept together and He didn't have any protection and sorta pressured me into it anyway. He is 5 years older. I am confident and independent but in this situation I acted pretty weak.

 

We love our kids more than our own lives, so I get how you can prioritize them above all else. But at the same time, when we fail to give to ourselves....we have nothing left to give to our loved ones. You can't be the Mom that you really want to be, when you feel trapped in your domestic role.

 

I'm not saying that you shouldn't prioritize them. Our responsibility as parents demands that we do. But you can also take some time for yourself without it necessarily becoming a selfish thing. If "little Tommy" misses a tee-ball season because you felt the burning need to take an art class....it's NOT going to wreck his life.

 

There are women who are happier after divorce, and women who are happier with reconciling the marriage. You won't know which will make YOU happiest until you redefine who you are, underneath of all the demands placed upon you.

 

If you need time to do that, ask your loved ones for their support. Take command of your troops and DELEGATE. Do some things that revitalize the inner you. Pick one dream that you have just for yourself....and chase it down.

 

In the meantime, why throw your marriage away? If you first eliminate the possibility that it is YOU who is causing the breakdown in the relationship, you are then completely free to make the choice to end it in good conscience. You can walk away without the sense of failure that you might otherwise feel.

 

Which one of you is refusing sex, btw? And what do you mean by "years of mental abuse"?

[Mom4]

Nice to hear from you LadyJane. I read some of your posts about "Your" situation. I have to say that after reading them last night it was the FIRST sign/glimmer of hope that I have had in a year. I need to get the two books you recommended. I liked the part about making your husband the sandwich and that was what he "needed." I have thought all day about the need vs want, and my expectations. Also how society defines love.

 

Anyways, you asked me some questions. I have refused sex for just over a year now. I have a hard time letting him in my personal space and I am not attracted to him. The situation I lived in for 10 years was one where he was suffering with depression (80% of the time) and several anger episodes. He never physically hurt me. He is a Dr and through his Residency and fellowship I held it all together and worked full time myself. I kept hoping for a light at the end of a tunnel but... as his life got easier his depression got worse. He would walk in and not make eye contact, ignore the kids, socially shut down, was cruel, felt that something was wrong with the whole world and he was the only one that was perfect. Yet he would sleep his hours away. You never knew who was going to walk through the door. We tried counseling at 5 years, and I had individual the first 2 years of our marriage. His family, his partners, my family and friends all started to see his illness progress and he could no longer keep it behind closed doors. He has said a lot of hateful things. Once I asked for the divorce a year ago ( yes I am still around), he believes he saw the light. I am having a hard time seeing past the last 10 years. I just don't feel close to him at all. That's why when I read your one post I thought, " I can make a sandwich." LadyJane I am an over-achiever. I do a lot for myself and I have all the kids involved in things as well. People always say, how do you do it? I stay physically active as well. People always tell me I look like I am 24. My husband hasn't and has gained a lot of weight and looks older than he is. I am very extroverted and he has to force himself to be social and outgoing. I am so confused. I don't know how to get past the anger. I stay extra busy ( some of which is fun) so I don't think to much but I am now feeling lonely.

 

I got tired of wearing my "happy" face.

[Ladyjane14]

Wow, if you caught that "sandwich" bit...you slogged through a REALLY LONG THREAD!!!! Unfortuately, it's about the sum of my knowledge on how to get your feelings back.

 

I could share this with you though..... I've been working for an Internist for about 3 years now. And being a doctor is harder work than most people can imagine. I certainly hope that my kids won't go into medicine, and that's a fact.

 

I don't think everyone who's smart enough to get through the training and get their license, should actually practice. Some are just not going to make it. Their personalities will not adapt to it.

 

My doctor is kind of a Type B personality. He's very relaxed and understanding of other people. He's grounded in his religion and in his family, both nuclear and extended. Things that bug EVERYONE else, just bounce right off of him. And yet, even so....when it's his turn to do the on-call weekend, he's all quiet and bummed out.

 

How does your husband respond to his work? Do you feel like his personality is appropriate for it? Could it possibly be a factor in his depression?

 

And speaking of which, is he in treatment for it?....or is he 'managing' it himself?

 

Have you ever worked with him? Or observed him in practice for long periods of time? Have you talked with his co-workers in an effort to see how he's interacting with others at work?

 

And the big question.....Do you still have ANY interest in recovering the marriage? If it was possible to have the marriage you always wanted, would you still want it with this particular man?

[RecordProducer]

Originally posted by Ladyjane14

Do you still have ANY interest in recovering the marriage? If it was possible to have the marriage you always wanted, would you still want it with this particular man?

 

This was rather a retorical question as you already said you were not attracted to your husband anymore. Yet there is something that stops you from divorcing him. What is it?

I aksed you if you would be able to support yourself and your children, but you didn't answer. Have you thought about this very important matter?

[Mom4]

And the big question.....Do you still have ANY interest in recovering the marriage? If it was possible to have the marriage you always wanted, would you still want it with this particular man?

 

 

Wow, this question made me cry because I think the answer would be no. It makes me sooo sad.

 

I have be the independent person this entire time. HE told me he would be at home around 5pm... he has called to say it will be later and it is after 10pm already. I am used to this. I do a lot by myself. What makes it difficult to leave is several things.... my children of course. They love there dad... if I go out they will say something like " Is daddy going to babysit us?" He gets to be the good guy. I suppose that I sometimes feel I should just enjoy the life I have and deal. I wonder if I really need someone anyways...maybe they don't exist. I just feel like my spouse is a stranger but also like a constant at the same time. He provides... that's about it.

 

I worked at the same hospital as him until we had our 3rd child. He is a perfectionist at work... can't complete or do anything at home. I do everything or hire someone to.

 

I suppose we would be financially ok, just not living like we do now if I left.

 

He started to self manage his depression about 4 years ago and that's when the depression got worse and the anger got worse. He had a harder time too of keeping it just at home. As soon as I asked for the divorce he did a 180. Lost 30 lbs, exercised, became available, got therapy... Now he has gained it all back, doesn't exercise, is starting to have some bad days again, stopped seeing his individual counselor.... Our marriage counselor had us stop and start individual counseling two weeks ago. I guess I stay because I am not convinced I will be happier if I leave... will I trade one set of problems in for another? And, it's just not about me. HE claims to love me and want me but his actions speak differently. The truth is, if he did everything perfect now I am not sure it would make me feel any different.

 

On top of it, I have to deal with all the Country Club gossip. I never talked about my issues at home because I wanted to protect my spouse. I really believe that people would have a hard time differentiating his personal and professional life. SO, people have created all kinds of stories. I heard today that I am on my second affair... funny because I never had a "first" one either. It isn't easy.

[Ladyjane14]

I'm going to be honest with you, okay?.....

 

What you have right now is a domestic partnership. It's not a marriage in the traditional sense. The only ways that a marriage can survive as an arrangement of domestic partnership, is if there is either a reason for it to be non-sexual, or if there is agreement to be non-sexual.

 

(Hokey Religions, here at LS, is the rare exception to the rule....but then again, she, herself is exceptional. In her marriage, the libidos didn't match, but the overt sense of LOVE for one another was there to compensate for it, so it has worked for her.)

 

Otherwise, for two healthy people....the marital relationship must be a sexual one. It's what differentiates the relationship between the two of you from the relationships that you have with others. It's what makes your relationship special, and intimate.

 

When your husband recommitted himself to the marriage last year, did he want to be sexual with you? Has his anti-depressant medication affected his libido? Because if he did want a sexual relationship, and was rejected, that could explain the turn-around from his initial efforts to please you.

 

I don't think your marriage is hopeless. I think it's possible that the two of you could still work it out. But you'll BOTH have to work VERY hard to do it, and I'm not sure that you have any confidence in the love you had for him. It's a leap of faith to say, "I loved him once, and I can love with him again".

 

You would need to trust in your ability to find your love for him. And for his part, he would need to defeat his depression, and his own probably over-developed ego. (Doctors must be confident in their judgements on the job, but it doesn't always translate well into the home environment and equal partnership with his/her spouse.)

 

The two of you would have to put your relationship on what Dr Phil calls "project status". That's a tall order, when you are BOTH already spread so thin in all of your daily commitments. It's something to think about though.

 

In the meantime, I think that reading those two books would be very good for you. I get the feeling from your posts that maybe your love language is quality time....and here you are married to a doctor, whose time is not always his own to give.

 

With four children and an absent husband, I can't see how you wouldn't feel deeply lonely and resentful of it. There may be lots of friends, and family....but it's not the same.

 

In order to make a go of the marriage, the resentment and anger MUST be put away....and it must be MUTUAL. That follows along the line of what I said in the other thread, so I won't repeat it here.

 

There is of course, ALWAYS the option of divorce. You can get out of this situation at any time. If you are certain, beyond the shadow of doubt....when the anger and sense of betrayal have lost all merit, then there is truly nothing left to save.

 

Living as room-mates is NOT marriage. Although, I've seen some divorced parents continue on in the same home as such, in order to support their children. The difference in that arrangement is that those folks are divorced, and have the necessary ability to be supportive of their ex-spouse in his/her romantic relationship with other people. Personally, I can't imaging ever feeling that way, but it takes all kinds, I guess.

 

I guess I stay because I am not convinced I will be happier if I leave... will I trade one set of problems in for another?

 

To some degree, this is the same thing that made me stay. My marriage was bad, but not so bad as to leave it. I often wonder if sub-consciously, I really didn't want to leave. Maybe way down deep, I knew that I loved him and would regret it. I guarantee, I was shocked to my depths to discover it, because I couldn't FEEL any love for him.

 

On the other hand, there are many divorced women, who frequent this board, who will tell you that the decision to leave was the best thing they ever did for themselves.

 

It's unfortunate, but NO ONE can guide you through this decision, or tell you what's right for YOU. You are the only one who can do that. Sometimes though, it'll take a while to come up with the answer, so be patient with yourself, and give yourself some time.

[Tamed Wildflower]

LadyJane or Mom4, what are the titles of the books the two of you were talking about?

[Mom4]

Five Love Languages by Chapman

 

His Needs/Her Needs by Harley