what to do

[feelingalone]

Hi...looking for advice. We've been married for 9 years and we recently have been having alot of trouble. My SO has had a "friend" in the past and we got through that. Turns out it was a very strong emotional affair. I'm comfortable that nothing happened sexually in that relationship and although it still hurts, we've moved past that. The problem is that there is now a different "friend"- one that he spends hours with on the phone (when I'm not around) and has told me that they have developed a very close friendship but nothing more. I am totally not ok with this and it has put a major strain on things lately. Am I totally out of my tree for asking that this relationship stop?

 

The other problem is that he's told me he's not happy with his marriage right now. We're going to counseling and says he's willing to work on it together and has made small changes to show that. I'm all for fixing the problem, but have a hard time getting past the fact that there is someone else in the picture. He says if I was focusing on us not the friend we could start working on us.

 

Help!

[Pocky]

And what does your marriage counselor think of his new friend?

[RecordProducer]

"He says if I was focusing on us not the friend we could start working on us."

And he is right. The friend he spends hours on the phone every day with is a consequence of the problems you have in your marriage. It's understandable that you find it hard to deal with the competition (who wouldn't?), but you have to accept the reality. It's good that he wants to work on your relationship. Some people confide in their mothers, some in their siblings, and some have friends for that purpose. It's not the end of the world...so far.

If he sees that you're trying to work things out, he will forget about this friend later. She is just a new person who doesn't know him so well, he hasn't had problems with her like with you. It's an emotional blackmale; he has her as someone who is completely on his side, understands him, and supports him, unlike you. He feels weak and needs support from aside to become stronger against you. Having a friend on his side also means he doesn't want to change, because she doesn't require from him to change. So she has something you don't have - more understanding for his faults.

Move onto his side and show him that you support him too and love him the way he is. When he ditches her, you can start demanding from him to change what's bad about him.

[feelingalone]

Originally posted by Pocky

And what does your marriage counselor think of his new friend?

 

We've only gone to the counselor once so far. It was brought up, and she acknowledged that he has found an emotional attachment. She said for now, she wasn't going to say for him to stop or to keep it going. She said that we needed to start working on us first.

[feelingalone]

Thanks RecordProducer. I feel like I've tried to show my support as much as possible. I think you are right in what you've said, it's just really hard to accept that he has someone else that he's running to. There's also been discussions that if it was important to me for her to be out of the picture- would he choose? He has made it very clear that I wouldn't be the choice. I just can't deal with that. He was my best friend at one point and now she has that.

[whichwayisup]

He says if I was focusing on us not the friend we could start working on us.

 

He has to stop focussing on the friend to make it work. He's putting TOO much on you and that's really unfair. He should confide in you, not the friend.

 

I'm sure with the councilling they will ask him to detach from this woman friend of his because he won't put his full attention into you if she's waiting in the wings.

[Moose]

The problem is that there is now a different "friend"- one that he spends hours with on the phone

This is a serious problem. It's simply unacceptable to spend hours on the phone with someone of the opposite sex unless it's something work related. This is how emotional and physical affairs begin, and it needs to stop, now.

 

Imagine if he found out that you spend hours on the phone with a male, "friend". I'm sure that his response would be quite different from yours. It would be unacceptable to him. You two are married, there shouldn't be any friends of the opposite sex outside of other couples, or co-workers. Even if there happens to be one or two, that person(s) should know the both of you equally.

I am totally not ok with this and it has put a major strain on things lately. Am I totally out of my tree for asking that this relationship stop?

No, you're not out of your tree at all. In fact, it's within your rights to ask him to stop, immediatley. You made a commitment with him to love and cherish each other. It's obvious that he's not sticking to that agreement and he's sharing intimate thoughts and feelings with someone else. That is just as bad as him sleeping with her. There is no way that he can honestly tell you that thought hasn't crossed his mind.

The other problem is that he's told me he's not happy with his marriage right now.

This is a double red flag, and the contact with this, "firend", of his needs to cease right now!!

She said for now, she wasn't going to say for him to stop or to keep it going. She said that we needed to start working on us first.

Where do some of these MC's get their credentials? I'd question this with all of my being. That's BS! If he wants to work on this marriage, there is no need for an outside influence getting involved unless it is a councelor. You don't even approach your parents with marital issues, let alone a potential fall girl.

"He says if I was focusing on us not the friend we could start working on us."

And he is right. The friend he spends hours on the phone every day with is a consequence of the problems you have in your marriage.

No, you're wrong. The problem in the marriage isn't because he's spending time on the phone with someone else. The problem, (whatever it may be), is the reason he's on the phone with someone else. That's what needs to be figured out and fixed.

Some people confide in their mothers, some in their siblings, and some have friends for that purpose. It's not the end of the world...so far.

And this is why most people fail in their marriages. Parents, siblings and friends are all biased. It's never, EVER a good idea to confide in family and friends with marital issues.

Having a friend on his side also means he doesn't want to change, because she doesn't require from him to change. So she has something you don't have - more understanding for his faults.

Hence the whole reason why I consider this situation as bad as infidelity.

- would he choose? He has made it very clear that I wouldn't be the choice.

I'd say call him on this bluff. Tell him fine, if I'm not your choice, get your things, and get out. Period. Or if he insists you leave, be prepared and have a place to go. I'm not kidding either. I bet you he'll change his entire tune.

[feelingalone]

I agree in part with all of you. I think it's all going to come down to how much I can take. I love my H and always will and know that there are problems that we might be able to get through with some work. The hurt of another person is so hard to get past and I can't help but think that if he really wanted me fully, she would not be there daily, especially through this hard time. I know I can't make him see that nor can I make him want to be with me...that is all supposed to happen naturally. It doesn't make the hurt any less though.

[Ladyjane14]

Get a new marriage counselor. The one you have is full of sh*t.

 

How can your husband "work on his marriage", and have what is basically an emotional affair at the same time?

 

If he's given you reason to believe that he would choose another woman, rather than you, if forced to a decision....then hasn't he already in essence made a choice?

 

If it were me, I'd call his bluff. What do you have to lose, that he hasn't given away to someone else already?

[feelingalone]

Originally posted by Ladyjane14

Get a new marriage counselor. The one you have is full of sh*t.

 

We had only gone to this counselor once and did not completely get into what was going on....just brushed the surface. I went to her by myself the other day and explained the situtation in more detail. She did say that working on us would be very hard with another person involved. She made some valid points on how to go about working on this and all and all I think she's ok.

[Mom4]

Personally, I don't think you should be seeing your MC alone. My husband and I have had one for over 6 months, she sent us to two different individual counselors. I believe they may communicate themselves but I think you should just see your MC together.

 

 

I bet he thinks he loves this other women.

 

Tell him to choose, that you either work at the marriage or not. It won't work if he doesn't. If she is JUST a friend maybe you should start calling her too... he he. He wouldn't like her to know the "real" him either. I am sure he paints a pretty picture for her.

[feelingalone]

Originally posted by Ladyjane14

Get a new marriage counselor. The one you have is full of sh*t.

 

How can your husband "work on his marriage", and have what is basically an emotional affair at the same time?

 

If he's given you reason to believe that he would choose another woman, rather than you, if forced to a decision....then hasn't he already in essence made a choice?

 

If it were me, I'd call his bluff. What do you have to lose, that he hasn't given away to someone else already?

 

 

I know...he has to give up the relationship. I don't think he will and if that's the choice, I have to deal with it. I just don't get it why guys don't understand that emotional affairs are just as damaging as the physical ones.

[whichwayisup]

I just don't get it why guys don't understand that emotional affairs are just as damaging as the physical ones.

 

Some guys do. Take a look at Owl's thread.

[WithOrWithoutYou]

Originally posted by feelingalone

I know...he has to give up the relationship. I don't think he will and if that's the choice, I have to deal with it. I just don't get it why guys don't understand that emotional affairs are just as damaging as the physical ones.

 

Some women don't understand this either, it's not just men.

 

I do agree with what others have said, that working on your marriage with an emotional affair still going on, which he does not wish to stop, and for which he is not repentent, will be nearly impossible. Sometimes, a friend is just a friend, even of the opposite sex, but in this case, from what you have said, it looks like there is more going on (by that I mean a very strong emotional attachment to this friend, the kind of emotional attachment that the two of you should have, not necessarily sex). Your MC said she saw the emotional attachment, and ironically, he provided further evidence that she is more to him than "just a friend" in the words he chose to use while trying to cover his ass when you confronted him about it. The "if you would concentrate on us instead of the friend" is a pretty standard defense mechanism that someone who knows they are doing something wrong will use to shift attention away from their behavior, and onto yours. It's also an intellectually dishonest thing for him to say. He must know that as long as he is emotionally involved with the other girl, he can't really figure out how to get into you and your marriage again. Also, if it is making you uncomfortable, if he really wants to work on the marriage, he should be willing to recognize that, and take appropriate action to correct the problem, especially in light of his history of having at least one emotional affair in the past, that was also a source of strain in your marriage. Saving the marriage should mean enough to him to do that.

 

I think this other "friend" needs to be a focus at your next meeting with the MC. Just because they are not having sex (if in fact that is the case), does not mean they are not having an affair. I think the reason so many people think that a sexual affair is so much worse, is because it implies a strong closness that their SO is having with another person besides them. Well, newsflash, you can have the same sort of emotional attachment without the sex, and it is just as bad. He needs to recognize this, and put a stop to it.

 

YES, there are bigger issues with your marriage that may be contributing to his desire to have these multiple emotional affairs, but before you can even start working on those issues, he has to show you the respect of at least being willing to work on your marriage, at least in his actions, and that includes doing no contact with this other girl coming in under the radar as "just a friend". He should either make a committment to work on your marriage, or make a committment to end it. He is selfishly trying to "have his cake and eat it too", and that isn't fair to you, himself, or even to the other woman.

[Ladyjane14]

As long as your husband is on the fence, it won't hurt anything to be sweet and understanding with him. If he leaps off that fence into OW's back yard.....well that's a different story.

 

For right now, it's best to be the attractive alternative to abandoning home and hearth. And if we face the facts, there's SOMETHING that he's getting out of this friendship with OW, that he's not getting at home. So, you want to do a little survey of the relationship and see what's missing.

 

I have to tell you....I'm not convinced that this is only an emotional affair at this time. Generally speaking, men aren't willing to abandon their wives for someone that they don't have a sexual interest in. If you have caught this thing before it became a PA (physical affair), then so much the better.

 

But I think it would behoove you to get the facts, so it may be time to do a little clandestine snooping. You need to know exactly how far the affair has progressed.

 

Regarding the cell phone bills: Find an old statement. See if it has a web address printed on it anywhere. Then try registering your account. If he's already done that, then you won't have the current password. See if you can contact them and get them to send it to you via e-mail. Act like you've forgotten it. If he's already set up the registration, he might have left the password lying around somewhere, so look through wherever he might have left notes. If you're name is on the account, call them on the phone and request it. You don't have to tell them why you want it.

 

Check through all your bank statements. Don't forget the credit cards. Most of the time, they're smart enough NOT to use the credit card for motel bills, but sometimes they aren't slick enough to remember to pay cash at the gas station. That can be a problem, when you're out of town and NOWHERE near where you said you'd be.

 

Check your computer. Most of the time they'll clear the history, but sometimes they get in a hurry and forget to remove the cookies. If he's getting e-mail through another server than the one you use together....it'll have cookies logged on. You know, little things like that trip them up.

 

It sucks to have to go there. But the good part is that if it's all above-board, you can put your imagination to rest. And if it's not, you'll have the facts in hand.

 

As long as he's on the fence....Plan A away. Work on the relationship, and give him lots of love, affection, and sex.

 

If he gets off that fence though....then we'll talk about Plan B.

[feelingalone]

Thanks so much for all of your support. I'm glad I found this board. If nothing else, it makes me feel like I'm not having all these feelings for no reason.

 

He's said again that he wants to work on us and doesn't want to throw it all away. I told him that she has to be out of the picture and that I have to see for myself that he wants this. I can't be the only one doing anything to save it. I guess the next few days will tell all.

[RecordProducer]

Originally posted by Moose

I'd say call him on this bluff. Tell him fine, if I'm not your choice, get your things, and get out. Period. Or if he insists you leave, be prepared and have a place to go. I'm not kidding either. I bet you he'll change his entire tune.

 

This is a great idea. What does that mean, he would choose her over you?! If he doesn't love you then you shouldn't waste any more time with him. I thought that she was merely his friend. But infatuation without sex is close to an affair and far from a friendship.

If he doesn't stop you from leaving and ditch her, it means he doesn't love you for real.

[feelingalone]

Having a rough time tonight...

I could see how upset he was when we were talking about him ending it with the OW. He's saying he's going to but in the meantime I have to get through another day knowing they will be on the phone. If it really ends, fine, I can go on with working things out. I'm having a bit of a rough time believing that will truly happen. This chick has quite the hold on him! Am I nuts thinking that it will really end and we will work out? If he does end it with her, can he come all the way back to me?

[RecordProducer]

What do you think would happen if you talked to her about it and explained to her how her friendship with your husband is an obstacle right in the middle of your marriage? I would do that, but remain very polite and nice. Perhaps if she sees how much they are hurting you, she'd feel responsible and ashamed. Show her how sad you are because she is taking your husband away from you. If she withdraws, you husband will see that you're the only one who is there for him. But first see if he is going to stop the contact.

If not, be brave enough to confront him and ask him what he wants from the other woman.

If I were you, I would put my profile on a dating site, stating that you're merely looking for friends. Then go out and meet people and talk to them on the phone and in the messenger programs all day. If that doesn't hurt him then he definitely doesn't love you.

[Ladyjane14]

Originally posted by feelingalone

This chick has quite the hold on him! Am I nuts thinking that it will really end and we will work out? If he does end it with her, can he come all the way back to me?

 

She's feeding his ego. His self-esteem might have taken a bit of a dive somewhere along the way. She's building it back up, and he's getting a little "rush" everytime she reinforces that good feeling for him. It's got an addictive quality to it that he won't want to relinquish.

 

He's actually having a chemical reaction within his body to those good feelings....so it's phyisological as well. Don't be surprised if he back-slides here and there, but don't put up with pro-longed continued contact either. It feeds the drama and excitement of the affair.

 

You can put OW out of business eventually, by making sure that he's getting that positive attention from YOU instead. It will take some time to do that, so don't be discouraged. And you'll probably notice withdrawal symptoms in his pattern of behavior. That will likely hurt your feelings all over again, so be prepared.

 

You don't have to hide the fact that your own feelings are hurt. In fact, it'll make you BOTH feel a little better if you accept comfort from him. Weirdly enough, it's the one who hurt you that you'll most want to comfort you.

 

And you do need to actively LISTEN while he's telling you his feelings. You'll need to actively address them as well. Don't forget to ask for your own needs to be met. That's important too.

 

Hang tough. It's a hurtful thing that you're going through....but if you can make it to the other side, your marriage will be soooo much stronger.

[WithOrWithoutYou]

Originally posted by feelingalone

Having a rough time tonight...

I could see how upset he was when we were talking about him ending it with the OW. He's saying he's going to but in the meantime I have to get through another day knowing they will be on the phone. If it really ends, fine, I can go on with working things out. I'm having a bit of a rough time believing that will truly happen. This chick has quite the hold on him! Am I nuts thinking that it will really end and we will work out? If he does end it with her, can he come all the way back to me?

 

Time will tell, and you are not nuts, just somewhat optimistic. Optimism is a good thing, if tempered with skepticism, and the fact that you have a rough time beleiving he will actually end it suggests that you have a good measure of that too. It is concerning that he is doing this so grudgingly, and that the thought of ending his emotional affair to work on your marriage upsets him so much. As far as his making a phone call to her today, you cannot worry about that. He obviously must call her to end it, because if he does not tell her it is over, she will keep calling, etc. Nothing wrong with letting him say goodbye - as long as that is what it is. Have you tried asking him what issues he has, and what he feels like he is not getting from your marriage that makes him go elsewhere for emotional support and a confidant, when that person should be you?

 

As for whether he can come all the way back to you if he ends it with her, that is an unknown question. It depends on how much he loves you, and how committed he is to working on your relationship. The fact that he is apparently so resentful about ending it with her is not a good sign, but see what happens, and keep a good thought. Give it a chance.

 

While I don't normally approve of spying on people, LadyJane's suggestion is not a bad one in this case, if you can do it covertly (don't take it too far, I'm only talking about checking cell phone records online without his knowledge, possibly checking email and history, etc. - things like that). You do need to know how far the affair has gone (because whether or not you would be willing to forgive him for any sex he had with the OW, it goes to whether or not he is being honest with you - and without honesty, there isn't much point in trying to fix anything). It would also help you to at least be able to judge if he is serious about working on your marriage in his actions, as well as in his words, or if he is just jerking you around, and keeping contact with the OW anyway. Yeah, it is very BAD to spy on your partner, two wrongs don't make a right, and if you were not married, I would probably suggest just ending the relationship as an alternative, but in this case, since you are serious about saving the marriage, I think you need to know since there is some evidence may not be behaving in a totally honest way (the head games he is playing by saying "If you will just concentrate on the marriage instead of the friend..." stuff). Once you know, forgive yourself for the spying, and put it out of your mind permanently. Only do that if you can for sure not get caught, because if you were to get caught, that would be a very bad thing if he really is being honest with you at this point.

 

Post back and let us know how you are doing.

[feelingalone]

Originally posted by RecordProducer

What do you think would happen if you talked to her about it and explained to her how her friendship with your husband is an obstacle right in the middle of your marriage? I would do that, but remain very polite and nice. Perhaps if she sees how much they are hurting you, she'd feel responsible and ashamed. Show her how sad you are because she is taking your husband away from you. If she withdraws, you husband will see that you're the only one who is there for him. But first see if he is going to stop the contact.

 

 

Actually, I have had a couple conversations with the OW and with her husband. The OW at first was very nice and assured me that I had nothing to worry about they were "just friends". I told her that the relationship was making me uncomfortable and that I wanted to speak with her woman to woman about it. Nothing happened from that...the phone calls kept up and so on. The husband wasn't happy and was aware of what was going on, but just enough to ask her to back off a bit.

[feelingalone]

Well...the update is that the OW is seemingly out of the picture for now. I've had to deal with my H being extremely upset about it for the past two days and that has been really hard!!!! I'm trying my hardest to be supportive and assure him that he made the right decision but I have feelings too and it just kills me to see him so upset over someone that was in the middle of our marriage!!

 

I'm trying to get to the point where we can talk about what she gave him that I didn't but we're not there yet. Honestly, I don't really want to hear how great she was right now! I've acknowledged to him that I know the reason she was there in the first place was that there is something missing between us right now and that is what we need to solve. We're going to continue going to the MC to get to the bottom of our problems.

[WithOrWithoutYou]

Originally posted by feelingalone

Well...the update is that the OW is seemingly out of the picture for now. I've had to deal with my H being extremely upset about it for the past two days and that has been really hard!!!! I'm trying my hardest to be supportive and assure him that he made the right decision but I have feelings too and it just kills me to see him so upset over someone that was in the middle of our marriage!!

 

I'm trying to get to the point where we can talk about what she gave him that I didn't but we're not there yet. Honestly, I don't really want to hear how great she was right now! I've acknowledged to him that I know the reason she was there in the first place was that there is something missing between us right now and that is what we need to solve. We're going to continue going to the MC to get to the bottom of our problems.

 

I know it is hard to see him being upset about the OW being out of the picture, but it really sounds like you are on the right track (and the fact that he is upset about it, actually suggests that she probably really IS out of the picture, and that he is probably not just faking it and telling you what you want to hear, if that makes you feel any better). I would encourage you to verify that she is truly out of the picture over the next few weeks in ways that are not obvious if you can do so without making him feel like he is being watched. Right now, just be extra-loving, and forgiving when he talks about what the OW was giving him emotionally that he thinks you were not (try not to throw up in the process - I know it's hard), and keep going to counseling. If he cares enough about you to write her off in a real way and do complete no contact, I think you've got a shot at fixing things if that is also what he truly wants. As you know, fixing things has to be what BOTH of you TRULY want (for the right reasons that actually have to do with your relationship, not just "for the sake of the kids" (if any), or "because I am used to being with him/her"), before you have a snowball's chance in hell of actually doing so and making it a happy partnership you both feel better with than without. I really wish the both of you luck.

 

Don't forget to come back and let us know what's going on.

[feelingalone]

Well, things are a bit better. It's still very hard though. We haven't talked about what the OW was giving him yet but I feel like we are going to need to soon. It makes my mind think all kinds of stuff not knowing and also not knowing exactly how deep the relationship went. He seems to have let her go for the most part although I have seen a few private messages from her (on another msg board) where she is not letting go as much. It makes me worry. She's says that she just doesn't know if she can live without him and on and on. His responses have been very cut and dry, just saying best of luck to you and I hope things work out for you. I realize it's been a short amount of time still.