In so deep...it feels good!!

[Illusion24]

I'm a very open minded person...If i feel the person is being good hearted and honeslty without being rude or attacking me I will take into account what they say.

 

I want advice just like I give others. That's why I come here to get different perspectives on things Im going through but fairly....In all my responses I never insult or attack or make someone feel bad NEVER!! I try to give my 2 senses and be as friendly and give as much guidence as I can...So I don't only think about myself...I mostly give advice then ask for it and when I do...LOOK WHAT HAPPENS!!!

[blind_otter]

Originally posted by elle naturelle

Just simple questions.... as well as view.

 

Afterall, if YOU didnt want others "views" (good or bad), then dont post them for thousands of people to read and give feedback.

 

Everyone is saying how YOU are learning, YOU are this, YOU are that.

 

"I" would like to say about "YOU", make sure you are thinking of others in your actions before you act. Afterall, while this is about YOU, it is clearing involving others.

 

Nothing personal, afterall, YOU are RIGHT... I dont know YOU! Just making a statement on what is read.

 

As noted before, good luck! Posting here is done...

 

 

Drive by b*tching is SO affective at helping people.

[elle naturelle]

Sometimes honesty wakes people up, adds a different perspective, sheds new like, etc, etc, etc...

Quit worrying about what I say or think...

Everyone saying the same thing is useless ...

[Illusion24]

Drive by b*tching is SO affective at helping people.

 

:lmao: Thats a good one!

[elle naturelle]

No wonder it takes 1,000 f**king posts and 20 forums on the same topic to get anything across to you

 

Atleast you find this site amusing.... or maybe a joke?!

 

Keep laughing...

[Illusion24]

 

Maybe if you're approach to all this wasn't so b!tchy I would have considered what you said but you're one of those people who make a big deal out of nothing...An effect way to get a message accross is being aggressive but not insulting

[blind_otter]

Originally posted by elle naturelle

No wonder it takes 1,000 f**king posts and 20 forums on the same topic to get anything across to you

 

Atleast you find this site amusing.... or maybe a joke?!

 

Keep laughing...

 

Riiiiiight. And my therapist should be b*tching at me for taking 7 years to come to terms with being raped. Give me a big fat frikkin' break. Different people = different lengths of time to understand/come to terms with their personal issues.

 

The whole drill sergeant barking orders thing might work for you. But statistically speaking it is the least effective means of helping someone who is emotionally fragile.

[elle naturelle]

Would you like me to butter you up before I tell you the truth?

 

Because I will be sure to do that before I tell you what I really think next time.

[blind_otter]

 

I think we can safely say that elle natural successfully pulled this thread entirely off topic, didn't offer any really helpful or supportive advice (saying "you're a selfish beyotch" does not count)....and let's just let this go because otherwise a moderator will be deleting a lot of OT posts on here.

[elle naturelle]

I must have really hit a "source" in NCN's problem to receive all of this attention.

 

Is that how you face your problems...

 

1) Ask for help / advice / input (in a non-professional setting)

2) Receive feedback

3) Respond

 

a. What you want to hear --

 

Thank people for support.

 

b. NOT What you want to hear --

 

Turn the table on them for "how dare they?!" make such a suggestion that "I" might be the problem.

 

What a waste of time....

[Pocky]

Originally posted by elle naturelle

NSN, all you seem to care about is yourself!

Reading your write-ups, and all you see is .... "me", "I", I want", "I feel"...

That says a lot about a person.

 

Do you actually ever think or listen to anyone else? their feelings? what they need?

 

People are so funny...

 

G.L.

 

I can understand your point, but I don't see where her focus is inappropriate. She's not intentionally hurting anyone while simultaneously focusing only on her issues. She's focusing on her issues because she has them and until she can resolve these issues it's having an impact on her relationships. In determining why she behaves she can determine how not to behave and in the long run that helps everyone that becomes a part of her life.

 

If she were treating someone poorly, having an affair, abusing someone or exhibiting any emotionally, mentally or physically abusive behavior while only focusing on how she feels, what she thinks or what she wants in the relationship, then I would have to agree that her self-absorbed attitude was distasteful. If she were exalting herself and implying that she were better than anyone else or deserving of more than anyone else then I would have to say that her self-absorbed attitude was distasteful.

 

However in this instance she's using this forum to figure out what she wants so she can move forward. Should she be denied that simply because she has taken the time to analyze her behavior only? Should she be denied that simply because she has come to a point where it may be necessary to do what isn't exactly pleasurable, but beneficial to all parties?

 

She's capricious - I've said this. She's caught up in the world of romance and she's got a touch of the Casablanca affliction, but she's not unnecessarily cruel or evil and she's not trying to put herself above anyone else in these relationships. She's just trying to find her role in a love story. Unfortunately, it takes time and age to realize that there are love stories, but they're nothing like the movies.

[Illusion24]

I can understand your point, but I don't see where her focus is inappropriate. She's not intentionally hurting anyone while simultaneously focusing only on her issues. She's focusing on her issues because she has them and until she can resolve these issues it's having an impact on her relationships. In determining why she behaves she can determine how not to behave and in the long run that helps everyone that becomes a part of her life.

 

If she were treating someone poorly, having an affair, abusing someone or exhibiting any emotionally, mentally or physically abusive behavior while only focusing on how she feels, what she thinks or what she wants in the relationship, then I would have to agree that her self-absorbed attitude was distasteful. If she were exalting herself and implying that she were better than anyone else or deserving of more than anyone else then I would have to say that her self-absorbed attitude was distasteful.

 

However in this instance she's using this forum to figure out what she wants so she can move forward. Should she be denied that simply because she has taken the time to analyze her behavior only? Should she be denied that simply because she has come to a point where it may be necessary to do what isn't exactly pleasurable, but beneficial to all parties?

 

She's capricious - I've said this. She's caught up in the world of romance and she's got a touch of the Casablanca affliction, but she's not unnecessarily cruel or evil and she's not trying to put herself above anyone else in these relationships. She's just trying to find her role in a love story. Unfortunately, it takes time and age to realize that there are love stories, but they're nothing like the movies.

 

Exactly, thank you for that Pocky. Your advice means much to me especially the way you word your opinions. I'm in a mess of my own and I'm just explaining and putting all these emotions out because I'm about to pop...I'm tired of thinking and feeling like this. I want closure to my unhappiness.

[Grinning Maniac]

Originally posted by NeverSayNever

Ok...What is the point of all of this?? I've mentioned my mistakes and now you're bashing me with it...Who cares what I wrote...and what I said before..What matters is the way I feel now and how I realize where I went wrong.

 

It doesn't mean I don't feel those things it just means I'm opening my eyes and realizing I was in a dream and I needed to come down to reality and step out of the box!! What's so wrong with that??? People aren't entitled to change their minds and the way they feel???

 

Yeah, I must be missing something too. Because I could swear that only a month about you said something to the tune of:

 

"SHUTUP SHUTUP SHUTP!!!! STFU I LOVE LOZENGE YOU DON'T KNOW ME!!!!! HOW DARE YOU SAY THIS WONT LAST! WERE IN LOVE!!! LOVELOVELOVE!! NONE OF YOU KNOW ANYTHING IVENEVERBEEN SO IN LOVEWE'RE SOULMATES AND WE'LL BE TOGETHER FOREVER AND EVER YOU GUYS SUCK!!! HAHA I BET YOU ALL JUST GOT DUMPED AND YOU WISH YOU COULD HAVE SOMEONE LIKE MMMYYYYYY MAAAAN LOZENGE TO LOVE YOU UR JEALOUS HAHAHA IM SOOOOOO IN LOVE RIGHT NOW IT'S THE BEST THING IN THE WORLD!!!! IM IN LOVE REAL LOVE LIKE ON THE HALLMARK CARDS LOOK AT ME HAHA HA SCREW YOU DOUCHEBAGS!"

 

What happened to all of that? What happened to all the anger at the clearly delusional people who dared to suggest that things with your dream guy, Lasagna wouldn't last that long? After all of the BS, accusations of "jealousy", and lame romantic fluff... you still broke up with him, and now you're "in love" with the other guy again. Uh-huh... It's been one month. This is not some two year old thread that got dug up from a grave. You posted this LAST-FRIGGING-MONTH. So, considering that you pretty much told everyone to go f*ck themselves, I would imagine the point would be...

[moimeme]

Fascinating. So far: greenhorn, D'Arthez, Imlost, Grinning Maniac, Faux, and ellenaturelle - SCOOOOOOOOOORRREEE! Pocky, BO, EC - big goose egg.

 

Though, apparently, this section of LS has been a 'circle the wagons' section where only huggy supportive posters are permitted to voice opinions and those who may have another viewpoint are vilified. One small example:

 

I also happen to see a lot of folks who are obviously bitter about being dumped, and using her situation as a platform to lecture all would-be dumpers out there.

 

To which I reply, in the famous words of - gee - the same person

 

You really have a lot of gall being an armchair psychologist.

 

Shall we recap?

 

He feels what I feel, he thinks what I think, he wants what I want, he craves what I crave, he loves the way I love, he smells the way I want a man to smell, he kisses me the way I need to be kissed, he holds me the way I need to be held, and the surprising part of all of this is that we haven't even made love...it's not sex with him its more then that!!! With him it's so passionate and saying I love you to him is so cliche...He says "when a woman tells me she needs me...its more meaningful than her telling me she loves me"....Without even question him, I looked into his eyes and told him..."I need you"!! I've never wanted anybody the way I want him..

 

When he's not around, I feel what he's thinking and when he's going to call...When he touches me I can feel his the warmth of his hands up and down my body as he caresses me...I get tingly inside when he kisses me and for about a week now I've had butterflies in my stomach and the funny part of all of this...I knew all along he was the one for me...Thats why when he came around this time I had to do something about it...I never thought he would return the love...bigger then any other expectation in my life...

 

guess what I was trying to say in my post was that sometimes it is worth the wait...Their is someone out there to love you and cherish you and care for you the way you feel you should be loved and taken care of...

...I'm not saying I'm totally "in" love with him but I know as time goes by he could be the person I fall "in" love with

 

know the true meaning of love and I was always asking myself how deep was my love for my ex...and it wasn't enough!! Why, because I"ve always been in love with someone else and now my dream has come true and aint' no one gonna change my mind...nothing you guys say will affect me or change my opinions or the way I feel...I've never been so sure about anything...and all you negative people I wish for one day you can feel what I feel with Lozano...But you're to caught up on your heart break!!! LET IT GO...I DID AND I'M SOOOOOOO HAPPY!! OH DID I MENTION I'M SOOOOOOOOOOOOO HAPPY "IN" LOVE!!!

 

and finally

 

Lozano, I've talked to him and told him how I Felt about my ex and he understands. I do think he's "like" my soulmate but after spending some time with him...I've come to realize I think their's some one else out their for me.

 

At this point, perhaps, one would think that a person who had been on this particular roller-coaster might suspect that she tends to be far too overeager in deeming herself 'in love' and not terribly wise about this aspect of life.

 

And one would hope that this person, rather than reacting with hostility and venom to people who attempted to point out this very fact to her, would realize they were pretty wise about what was going on and so she might do well to at least heed their suggestions and advice next time. And maybe even the people who rushed to defend this person's actions might see that they were enabling her in her dysfunction and that the vicious attacks on those who refused to coddle this individual in her flights into romantic fantasy were exceedingly unfair.

 

Sometimes the very kindest thing a person can do for you is to hold up a mirror to you to show you the ugly reality of what you're doing. Sure, it stings. Sure, it's hard to handle the truth, but if you can do it and get past it, you'll likely find yourself a heckuva lot happier. People enable others' dysfunctions and call it 'support'. It's not.

[westernxer]

If his name were John or Jim, no one would care.

 

But LOZANO... that's a name I'd definitely blink twice about.

[blind_otter]

 

Ok, let's all get upset at someone we don't know for doing things we don't understand because they don't "heal" (in our high and mighty opinion) in the amount of time that we think is appropriate.

 

Moi, I would have thought after I asked you politely to refrain from responding to my posts, that you would be kind enough to NOT quote me or refer to me. I ask that you kindly put me on "ignore" and just pretend I don't exist.

 

This, "armchair psychologist", is a polite request from someone who unfortunately had to have some anxious re-experiencing of traumas because you so kindly referred to my sexual traumas with no real knowledge of how to approach that kind of issue. You did it the wrong way, you did damage, I went to my therapist and now I have to go twice a week for a few weeks to undo damage that YOU unwittingly did.

 

Think about that before you start judging and typing.

[Illusion24]

I'm so glad I wrote this post...Not because of what's been stirred up but because this is what life's all about...

 

YOU LIVE AND YOU LEARN....YOU MAKE MISTAKES AND YOU LEARN...!!!

 

Feels good to be human. I will not go on anymore and rant about anything but I will say to those who felt offended or attacked, MY BAD...Those weren't my intentions!!!!!!!

[Pocky]

Fascinating. So far: greenhorn, D'Arthez, Imlost, Grinning Maniac, Faux, and ellenaturelle - SCOOOOOOOOOORRREEE! Pocky, BO, EC - big goose egg.

 

I didn't realize you were keeping score.

 

At this point, perhaps, one would think that a person who had been on this particular roller-coaster might suspect that she tends to be far too overeager in deeming herself 'in love' and not terribly wise about this aspect of life.

 

Far too eager at deeming herself in love, huh? At twenty-three how should she be regarding love? Have so many of you forgotten the way young people behave regarding love? Everything is intense, everything is melodramatic and everything changes in a instant. Like I said several times, she's capricious, which is exactly how she should be at her age. She's twenty-three and not supposed to be wise about everything she does regarding relationships. She's supposed to learn from her mistakes and will learn from her mistakes if she's allowed to make them.

 

As an adult myself, the condescending tone the mature posters have is abundant in the posts on this thread. While I commend all of you for having weathered the storm of relationships and for showing the ability to turn bad experiences into a lifetime wisdom, I think it's a little self-righteous to think that you have been appointed to give her a reality check when it comes to relationships.

 

they were pretty wise about what was going on and so she might do well to at least heed their suggestions and advice next time.

 

Might do well to heed their suggestions? Why because she might just find out that love isn't like the movies and that it takes some time for relationships to bond between two people? Imagine that - growing up all on your own without the advice from the weathered adults to guide her way. How on earth did I make it this far without the support of the oh-so-wise adults on this thread to light my path and let me see the errors of my way. Give me a break - she's a kid. Let her act like a kid.

 

And maybe even the people who rushed to defend this person's actions might see that they were enabling her in her dysfunction and that the vicious attacks on those who refused to coddle this individual in her flights into romantic fantasy were exceedingly unfair.

 

There is nothing dysfunctional about the way she's acting. I'm sure most of us acted this way when they were young and in love with being in love. I'm confused as to why so many of you are so afraid of romantic fantasy and why you feel it's your obligation to erase it from her life. Romantic fantasy is meant for people her age - they're the only ones that can enjoy it without being jaded by the cynicism of maturity.

 

What she is guilty of is being rude, much like many other posters on this thread.

 

Sometimes the very kindest thing a person can do for you is to hold up a mirror to you to show you the ugly reality of what you're doing. Sure, it stings. Sure, it's hard to handle the truth, but if you can do it and get past it, you'll likely find yourself a heckuva lot happier. People enable others' dysfunctions and call it 'support'. It's not.

 

Maybe people should hold the mirror to their own face to see why they feel it's important they inject a dose of their reality into the lives of other people. Giving her some advice and warning her about how things aren't always as they seem is helpful and important, but bashing her and mocking her for her ability to lose herself in love isn't.

 

Just to clarify what I do support:

 

1) She had a right to end the relationship with her boyfriend for whatever reason she wanted.

2) She was as honest as she needed to be in ending the relationship and was fair in how she handled it.

3) She should be capricious when it comes to romantic love - she's only twenty-three.

4) If the relationship doesn't last with Lozano then she should move onto the next until she finds the one.

[d'Arthez]

Originally posted by Pocky

Far too eager at deeming herself in love, huh? At twenty-three how should she be regarding love? Have so many of you forgotten the way young people behave regarding love? Everything is intense, everything is melodramatic and everything changes in a instant. Like I said several times, she's capricious, which is exactly how she should be at her age. She's twenty-three and not supposed to be wise about everything she does regarding relationships. She's supposed to learn from her mistakes and will learn from her mistakes if she's allowed to make them.

 

Give me a break - she's a kid. Let her act like a kid.

 

There is nothing dysfunctional about the way she's acting. I'm sure most of us acted this way when they were young and in love with being in love. I'm confused as to why so many of you are so afraid of romantic fantasy and why you feel it's your obligation to erase it from her life. Romantic fantasy is meant for people her age - they're the only ones that can enjoy it without being jaded by the cynicism of maturity.

 

Yes, but why set the standard on average of her peers, and not on the highest attainable Pocky?

 

Do you think that I as a 25-year old male, should be interested in picking up girls, drunken nights out, and road rage, instead of reading literature, the arts and philosophy? Of course not. But it strikes me as odd, that you advocate a way that will allow her to become cynical in a matter of a few years time.

[blind_otter]

Originally posted by d'Arthez

Yes, but why set the standard on average of her peers, and not on the highest attainable Pocky?

 

Do you think that I as a 25-year old male, should be interested in picking up girls, drunken nights out, and road rage, instead of reading literature, the arts and philosophy? Of course not. But it strikes me as odd, that you advocate a way that will allow her to become cynical in a matter of a few years time.

 

Everyone becomes cynical, d'Arthez, whether they want to or not. What is right is allowing that person to live and learn their OWN way, rather than dictating how they should live according to your own life experience. You are you, I am me, she is herself - and wha tis beautiful about humanity is the great diversity of individuals because of our differences. Which are both innate, and learned. Different person - different life.

 

Who among us is worthy of being the judge and jury? Who among us is NOT guilty of judging inaccurate and possibly causing damage to the person we judge? as long as they are note endangering themselves, or others....what's the harm in letting an individual find their own path in their own time?

[d'Arthez]

I disagree with you Otter. It is not about judging anybody, it is about NSN's life.

Some courses of action would have been better than other courses of action. To reason that she is young and not yet cynical, and that that will come to pass one day, and thus supporting her decision this or that way, is absurd. We should not try to make people cynical, should we? And sometimes that requires to take a different path than the easiest, but such is life.

 

I'd rather have she makes the same mistakes twice and learns from it, than only making the mistake once, and become cynical as a result of that.

[Pocky]

Yes, but why set the standard on average of her peers, and not on the highest attainable Pocky?

 

Depriving oneself of the euphoria caused by young love isn't setting a high standard is it? Do you think that because as adults, we know that this type of quick love usually doesn't last, we should deem it as negative? Should we see the entire experience as unhealthy and dysfunctional? Isn't experiencing this what enables us to recognize real love - the type that has you celebrating your 50th wedding anniversary?

 

I understand the warning that you want to give, but I disagree that this experience should be removed from her life. It's a part of the process that I feel is vital to her ability to understand what relationships are, what it takes to make them work and what a real love story is. In my opinion, she needs to experience it in order to even understand the warnings many want to give her.

 

Do you think that I as a 25-year old male, should be interested in picking up girls, drunken nights out, and road rage, instead of reading literature, the arts and philosophy? Of course not. But it strikes me as odd, that you advocate a way that will allow her to become cynical in a matter of a few years time.

 

1) Picking up girls - what's wrong with picking up girls?

2) Drunken nights out - are you really comparing intoxication from alcohol to the pleasures of young love? Come on - you jest. Getting ****faced, puking, possibly getting alcohol poisoning and driving while drunk isn't really equal to falling in love and getting lost in the fantasy of it.

3) Road rage! You make me laugh. Road rage kills! Acting like the leading lady in a romance novel doesn't kill people.

 

No, I don't think that a twenty-five year old male should only experience literature, arts and philosophy and this is hardly a comparison to what she's doing.

 

I don't feel that allowing her to experience love in its many forms as a way to cynicism. It's a way to learn about herself, the people she meets, the way life progresses and the impermanence of it all.

[blind_otter]

Originally posted by d'Arthez

I disagree with you Otter. It is not about judging anybody, it is about NSN's life.

Some courses of action would have been better than other courses of action. To reason that she is young and not yet cynical, and that that will come to pass one day, and thus supporting her decision this or that way, is absurd. We should not try to make people cynical, should we? And sometimes that requires to take a different path than the easiest, but such is life.

 

I'd rather have she makes the same mistakes twice and learns from it, than only making the mistake once, and become cynical as a result of that.

 

What I'm saying is - it's awfully egotistical to believe that your way of viewing and experiencing life is the BEST way.

 

You have no say in her life. She is not more than a character in a novel written on a page to us - the people in her life have some right to say "I'd rather have her do this or that" - more so than we do.

[d'Arthez]

Originally posted by Pocky

Depriving oneself of the euphoria caused by young love isn't setting a high standard is it? Do you think that because as adults, we know that this type of quick love usually doesn't last, we should deem it as negative? Should we see the entire experience as unhealthy and dysfunctional? Isn't experiencing this what enables us to recognize real love - the type that has you celebrating your 50th wedding anniversary?

If she can be appreciative of it then. Which I doubt, as she may have grown a bit cynical of love. You can burn yourself a couple of times, but the wounds become part of your body, and masy never disappear. Perhaps with plastic surgery, but that is an artificial method.

 

Of course we should not think negative about euphorical love. The point is, that euphorical love does not excuse everything. Does not make one immune to criticism. We are almost two months further down the line, and as far as I am aware, her situation has become more confused. She will get through it, no doubt. Hopefully not embittered.

 

I understand the warning that you want to give, but I disagree that this experience should be removed from her life. It's a part of the process that I feel is vital to her ability to understand what relationships are, what it takes to make them work and what a real love story is. In my opinion, she needs to experience it in order to even understand the warnings many want to give her.

You may be right about that. But then it is the way she is, and she would not need support either way, as she already has decided on her course. A wise man or woman answers the questions, already knowing if the answers are believed or not. It does not mean, that the person who asks the question is dumb, but has to see the truth before he or she can believe the answers.

 

My comparison was not about doing things or not doing things. But everybody has their standards, and things they like to do. Not everybody is the same. It would be detrimental for my health and sanity to do things other people consider as normal, while other people would grow insane doing the things I do. That is not so much of a preference, but the way I am and other people are.

 

What boggles me is that she is supposed to act like an average 23-year old. I think you set a too low a standard for her. Perhaps I am not too cynical yet, when I think she can do better than that. I know it comes natural with being a young 20-something to believe that you know it all. I have been there, and now I know I know next to nothing.

 

I don't feel that allowing her to experience love in its many forms as a way to cynicism. It's a way to learn about herself, the people she meets, the way life progresses and the impermanence of it all.

Is it love then? Or is it the illusion of love? Only she can answer that question.

 

Originally posted by blind_otter

What I'm saying is - it's awfully egotistical to believe that your way of viewing and experiencing life is the BEST way.

I did not say that. I say that different courses of action would yield different outcomes, and that the action she resolved upon is not necessarily the best path. I think it is not the best path she could have taken, true.

[blind_otter]

Originally posted by d'Arthez

I did not say that. I say that different courses of action would yield different outcomes, and that the action she resolved upon is not necessarily the best path. I think it is not the best path she could have taken, true.

 

This is frustrating. How can you judge that the action she resolved upon isn't the best? It may be, when she is 80, that she looks back and says "thank God I chose to do that" - or it may be the opposite. What I'm saying is, none of us know. We are miles away.