Do you think cheaters would cheat if they knew the pain they would inflict?

[minimariah]

I think if a person is healthy, they react to situations in healthy ways.

 

true but this would also mean that cheaters are, in general, sick people - not healthy. & that's a seriously huge reach.

 

i only know a few people who cheated due to their personal issues, most of them did it because they didn't have a marriage that was good or fulfilling to THEM - which lead to them not loving their spouses anymore. but that's something that (for most) is VERY hard to accept.

 

After dday, my marriage was non existent but I managed not to cheat.

 

different strokes for different folks.

doesn't make you any healthier than your average cheater - it just makes you less selfish & cowardly, more moral.

[Mal78]

THIS!

It's a thing that's not really talked much when discussing cheaters, but it's a very common trait of cheaters.

 

Mots of them seem to be always coping with problems of some sort: traumas of the past (sexual abuse, bad childhood, parental neglect), social phobias, paranoia, etc.

 

I suppose the "victim mentality" can give them some mental support that engourages them to cross the line. Something like: "after everything that I've endured in life I deserve to at least have some fun/pleasure/happiness, etc".

 

Although I believe this may be true for many cheaters I also believe many were raised to feel entitled. Or they weren't given directive to have consequences for doing wrong.

 

Reminds me of one of the 12 ways to raise a delinquent child:

 

4. Avoid the use of the word "wrong." It may develop a guilt complex. This will condition him to believe later, when he is arrested for stealing a car, that society is against him and he is being persecuted.

 

My husband was raised as an only child. He was worshiped (my opinion) by his mother. The boy could do no wrong. Even when my Mother told her I was pregnant she denied it. It was impossible. He doesn't do those things (he was 18).

 

No shocker he cheated on me. He also never got caught. He confessed matter of factly. Another sign. It's taken years of children for him to realize he isn't always right, he is capable of mistakes, you must take accountability to progress, he doesn't have to win EVERY time and cheaters never prosper.

 

His dad was a dog too.

[minimariah]

Sorry, but infidelity is considered a criteria in a lot of mental disorders.

 

no, it's not - promiscuity is & those are two VERY different things.

 

sure, it is. the thing is... just because you cheated - it doesn't mean that you're mentally ill. you can't really put a tag with a mental disorder on everyone who cheats - so infidelity, when we look at it for what it really is, cannot be called an addiction OR mental ilness. it however, CAN be, a symptom of deeper problems.

 

For more anecdotal evidence, just take a look around the forums. A huge percentage of them were actually pretty happy in their marriage and never wanted to leave it.

 

i have way too much experience with patients in therapy to actually believe those people claiming they were perfectly happy & loved their spouses.

 

take a look at how many affairs started that way - only for people to tell a totally different story once they fall in love with their AP & decide to leave their M. suddenly, their spouse wasn't good enough, didn't do this right, didn't do that right...

 

i'm not going to deny the fact that there are people who cheat because of their personal, deep issues. but like i said, those are exceptions rather than rules.

 

Most enjoyed the thrill, but has no intentions of leaving their marriage.

 

but this doesn't mean that their marriage was actually good or fulfilling.

 

Problematic gambling, substance abuse/addiction, lack of impulse control, limited capacity for empathy (google mirror neurons for a neat theory on empathy) and cheating are on the same spectrum of behavior.

 

*serial cheating.

 

We are a product of biological, sociological and psychological influences in our life and sadly, we have much less free will than we would like to think.

 

as a MED professional - i strongly disagree with this.

[purplesorrow]

true but this would also mean that cheaters are, in general, sick people - not healthy. & that's a seriously huge reach.

 

i only know a few people who cheated due to their personal issues, most of them did it because they didn't have a marriage that was good or fulfilling to THEM - which lead to them not loving their spouses anymore. but that's something that (for most) is VERY hard to accept.

 

 

 

different strokes for different folks.

doesn't make you any healthier than your average cheater - it just makes you less selfish & cowardly, more moral.

 

I was commenting on MY situation. My stbx has no reason to lie about how he felt about our marriage. I don't know the dynamics of anyone else's marriage. Everyone has issues. It is your opinion that a bad marriage causes people to cheat. I simply disagree.

[devilish innocent]

I think some people would still cheat, but that there would be fewer affairs. I've never been involved in either side of an affair (either as the cheater or as the one getting cheated on). But just having the opportunity to read about them on forums like this has really opened my eyes to the devastation they can cause. When I was younger I probably could have found a way to justify it if the temptation was strong enough, but there's no way I could do it now. I think some people know on a superficial level that an affair is bad, but they don't really understand just how bad.

[HereNorThere]

true but this would also mean that cheaters are, in general, sick people - not healthy. & that's a seriously huge reach.

 

i only know a few people who cheated due to their personal issues, most of them did it because they didn't have a marriage that was good or fulfilling to THEM - which lead to them not loving their spouses anymore. but that's something that (for most) is VERY hard to accept.

 

 

 

different strokes for different folks.

doesn't make you any healthier than your average cheater - it just makes you less selfish & cowardly, more moral.

 

It seems like you kind of get it. See, the cheating itself is an indicator of mental health issues, not the reason behind it. Exposing people to STDS, engaging in long term deceptions of a loved one, breaking up your child's happy home, breaking up someone else's child's happy home, showing a blatant disregard for other humans rights and feelings in general, is the real issue. Healthy people don't put themselves into situations that could have life long, detrimental consequences to families for sex. You kinda have to be a little messed up to do something that horrible in the first place.

 

If I saw you walk up and punch a baby, I wouldn't say "must have been an ugly baby!" I'd say "wtf is wrong with this woman? She purposely hurt a baby! Something must be wrong with her!"

 

Hurting people is hurting people, period. I mean, unless it's a REALLY ugly baby.

[autumnnight]

There are no ugly babies!!!

 

Or puppies

 

I think most cheaters probably avoid thinking about the pain aspect as much as possible. They force themselves to try to compartmentalize. The sad thing is, the longer they do it, the better they get at it, and that has got to be damaging to your soul, ya know?

[minimariah]

as a MED professional - i strongly disagree with this.

 

i can't edit my post anymore BUT - i wanted to say that i disagree with the last part of the statement i was responding to. i think we have much MORE free will than we are ready to admit because with free will comes great responsibility & people usually don't like that, lol.

 

i've seen many people who would rather be diagnosed with a mental illness diagnosis just to avoid one simple truth - that they weren't happy OR that they simply weren't who they thought they were.

 

and to be clear - i'm not talking about serial cheating here.

 

It is your opinion that a bad marriage causes people to cheat. I simply disagree.

 

bad marriages don't cause people to cheat - the fact that they aren't happy in their marriage does. in most cases, i wasn't talking about your situation.

 

i didn't say people will cheat BECAUSE of their bad marriage. i said that, in my opinion, cheating is a symptom of a deeper problem in their marriage.

 

not everyone in a bad marriage will cheat, we deal with problems differently. but just because you choose to deal with it by cheating - it doesn't mean that you're mentally ill addict, that was my point.

 

if that WAS true, then how to explain all those people who cheated & suddenly stopped once they married a person who they truly loved & who truly made them happy?

[HereNorThere]

as a MED professional - i strongly disagree with this.

 

Regarding my quote about the bio/social/psycho model of psychology, that's just fact. I mean, that is the current model of psychology.

 

If you're talking abou my quote on free-will, oh man, we'd be thread jacking pretty hard considering this debate has gone on for thousands of years. It's like discussing religion, you'll just go around in circles. We'll just agree to disagree, but it does feel like you have a pretty heavy confirmation bias.

 

Although I do feel like it is relevant to OPs post, that debate is digging a little deeper than I feel like he was asking for. If you feel like making a thread in another part of the forum, Im game.

[minimariah]

Healthy people don't put themselves into situations that could have life long, detrimental consequences to families for sex.

 

i agree - many do it because they actually DO love their APs.

not every affair starts (or lasts) just for some extra sex.

 

You kinda have to be a little messed up to do something that horrible in the first place.

 

you just have to be a flawed human not giving a sh*t about your spouse in most cases, really.

 

If I saw you walk up and punch a baby, I wouldn't say "must have been an ugly baby!" I'd say "wtf is wrong with this woman? She purposely hurt a baby! Something must be wrong with her!"

 

LOL.

 

i see your point but this was a bad comparison - you can't compare punching a baby you've seen for the first time & violence with cheating on an adult you've known & been married to for years.

 

i mean, people cheat for different reasons. some cheat with ONE person, some with many others... some cheat with sex workers. so i can't talk about cheating in generalizations because every situation is special.

 

i was talking about cases when people cheat once, usually in a LTA with one person. i wasn't really talking about serial cheaters who constantly do it because of their deeper issues - for me, that's another topic AND i don't think those are the cases the OP of this thread was referring to. but maybe i'm wrong.

[minimariah]

If you feel like making a thread in another part of the forum, Im game.

 

i'm all for it! i love discussions like those, i can always learn something new.

 

forgive me if i come off as rude sometimes or biased - it's really about the fact that i still struggle to express my thoughts in english because it's not my 1st language. so my statements can sometimes sound... weird, LOL.

[oldshirt]

This list could apply to any person serving time in prison.

 

The answer to the OP's question. Yes.

 

 

 

good point. And I doubt there are very many faithful, family men/women sitting behind bars.

[bubbaganoosh]

I think the main reason why infidelity is such a deal breaker for is the fact that after they get caught, no matter how hard they try to show remorse and do everything they can to prove themselves worthy, it can't compare any way near the pain they caused. When you tell someone that you love them with everything you have, you have opened yourself wide open to them and then get a knife in the back is a pain that I have experienced and it a pain you'll always remember. The only way they can fully understand how you feel is to have it happen to them.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Honestly....I can say if a WS understands true remorse and accepts responsibility for the pain they have caused their spouse....I don't see how they could possibly ever cheat again.

 

I would truly take my life before I would allow it to happen again. I would never want to hurt anyone as badly as I hurt my husband. I would give anything to undo what I did to him.

[atreides]

i disagree with this.

 

infidelity is, in fact, a VERY planned process.

finding your AP & starting the affair may not be planned (in most cases) but everything else? absolutely planned (secret mails, secret phones, secret meetings, lies...). you need to plan every meeting, think of every lie, think about covering everything up...

 

 

By plan, "i plan on going to work to day at 8:30" they make choices based on response that they like from the chemical feedback. THey are not a victim, i think you are getting that vibe. Just because infidelity is an addiction does not grant them a "poor you" card. I will explain to it further below to address a huge issue i have with what you stated. Although there are cases where it is "planned" but in that case based on a different driver.

 

again, infidelity is VERY carefully planned. cheaters usually do know & are aware of everything, including the consequences but the thing is... they just don't care enough to stop.

 

addicts

 

they usually want it so bad, they move past the "OHMYGOD, WHAT IF I GET DISCOVERED?!?" thinking. it happens because either they don't think they will get caught so they avoid thinking about it OR the love they feel & the desire for their AP is so much bigger & stronger than the love and the desire they feel for their spouse - so they can't stop themselves from being with the person who truly makes them happy.

 

yep addicts... you could easily substitute the specifics to infidelity with other addictions and keep the same wording as you wrote.

 

if the marriage is too good to leave - it doesn't mean that it's a good marriage. too good to leave usually means - small kids, finances, comfortable life, religion, avoiding judgement from other people, not wanting to cause mess & confusing among friends and families... people would rather stay in dead marriages then having to live alone & not see their kids every single day UNLESS there is a good, valid reason (the AP.)

 

 

right too good to leave, as in "poor me, so i need to go get elsewhere" see the context? It remains a contradiction. Remember they create a choice to peruse based on what they tell themselves.

 

 

below is the dispute i have. I had to parse it out.

 

i have to disagree with this, too.

affairs aren't addiction, IMO.

 

It answers most of the questions alternatives can't when framed as and indeed chemical response, our own chemicals create the high.

 

people cheat because they aren't happy in their marriages. cheating, in most cases, comes from a flawed marriage & bad relationship with the spouses - NOT from personal problems.

 

Very, very incorrect,. You have not been here long enough to read the so many stories that were self-proclaimed happy. Then there are those waywards whom themselves post and say they are soulmates with their spouse but go outside for "fun" as they call it. Read more on LS and there are other forums filled with good marriage but yet cheating. You will see the word "fun" come up a lot.

 

Again, marriage problems have nothing even remotely to do with infidelity as you would then have to start down the road of answering for those that never cheat with problems, those that do cheat "say they are happy" and so on. Then you will realize, life itself is not perfect therefore we must cheat ourselves too??? no of course not. No marriage is happy 365. It's idiocy going down that road.

 

You see, it is easier for a wayward to go back 2 years, 3 months and a day to say, "you weren't there for me" and so I cheated... "marriage problems" "oh poor me." Life's issues but more to the point marriage issues are used as deflection because it is the hardest thing to look into the mirror and so easier to use to rationalize it away.

 

VERY few people are serially cheating & are "addicted" to having affairs and to the affair fog, etc.

 

In the "serial" case, that is not an addiction but a deeper issue, they use in part an addiction but the main driver is more psychologically deeper.

 

 

i've seen people solving their personal problems only to discover that it still wasn't enough for them to love their spouses like a spouse deserves to be loved.

 

Solving the problem is to fix why you cheat, not why you love. This is the flawed logic you are using. If you don't love, you divorce or seek a way to mend as in perhaps rekindle. Cheating is a personal problem, thus solving "Why you cheat" fixes the cheat, not the love.

Edited March 6, 2015 by atreides

[minimariah]

I think the main reason why infidelity is such a deal breaker for is the fact that after they get caught, no matter how hard they try to show remorse and do everything they can to prove themselves worthy, it can't compare any way near the pain they caused.

 

you know... to me (& i've been cheated on twice) that remorse just wasn't enough. on top of everything, i started falling out of love because i just couldn't continue to love someone who could do that to me.

 

the 1st time, the remorse was real. & he is sorry and i don't think he'll ever get over it BUT... it just wasn't enough to me. the 2nd time, the remorse wasn't really about hurting me... it was rather about him betraying his own values & principles. he was sorry for doing it to himself, not to me.

 

the pain was unbearable & there is not enough remorse in this lifetime to make it easier.

 

i can forgive and i already did. that's not an issue. i can forgive and i can understand... but there is no way i am staying after an infidelity. i will respectfully bow out & go on about my own life without that person.

 

if it was a ONS... i could understand. but long term affairs? it was happening for days, months, years...? i admire absolutely everyone who can move past that & rebuild the relationship.

[minimariah]

THey are not a victim, i think you are getting that vibe. Just because infidelity is an addiction does not grant them a "poor you" card.

 

no, actually... you're the one doing that.

addiction is a disease. saying that cheaters are addicts - you're basically saying they're doing it because they can't help themselves & with that, you are excusing their behavior & removing their responsibility. cheating is NOT an addiction (unless the person is mentally ill & had deeper problems) - it's a bunch of decisions you make because you WANT to, not because you HAVE to.

 

you always have a choice - and you choose to be unfaithful. nothing in infidelity is "accidental" - cheaters know very well what they're doing and they're still doing it.

 

i really don't know why you think i'm making cheaters look like victims - because i'm doing quite the opposite. maybe i wasn't clear enough.

 

You have not been here long enough to read the so many stories that were self-proclaimed happy.

 

i'm lurking on this Forum since the year of 2010, FYI.

 

Again, marriage problems have nothing even remotely to do with infidelity...

 

no, this is wrong & illogical. sorry.

you're talking about serial cheaters who cheat for the sake of the thrill - and they're not the rule.

 

No marriage is happy 365. It's idiocy going down that road.

 

no need to be rude and offensive.

i never said the relationship or a marriage need to be PERFECTLY happy. but you really can't sell me the story talking about "the state of your R or M has nothing to do with you being unfaithful" at all. that doesn't make sense to me and it probably never would. AGAIN! i'm not talking about serial cheaters, i'm talking about people who genuinely do fall in love and feel something deeper for their AP.

 

In the "serial" case, that is not an addiction but a deeper issue, they use in part an addiction but the main driver is more psychologically deeper.

 

with all due respect... i don't think you understand what "addiction" & "addicts" mean.

 

addiction IS a deeper issue.

 

Solving the problem is to fix why you cheat, not why you love. This is the flawed logic you are using.

 

but this is not the logic i'm using. you keep misunderstanding my words.

cheating (in most cases) means that you don't love your partner the way you're supposed to. it also means you have a character flaw - hence you decided to handle it the wrong way. so you should both leave your partner AND work on you.

 

who told you that people who cheat don't divorce? because they do, all the time. the thing is... they divorce only AFTER their 2nd option is waiting for them.

[beach]

Just wondering if people would actually choose to stray if they really understood what they were going to do to their spouse?

 

I've said I would never cheat on my wife and I truly believed that before her affair (and I was tested) but now I REALLY know I would never cheat because I understand the pain involved.

 

Yes, most would... Mainly because they are only thinking of themselves in that moment/time frame - that and thinking they won't get caught.

[beach]

I guess that is true in my case. She has told me she never thought I would find out and did not think about it. I guess I'm asking this from a perspective of someone that would never cheat and I'm never going to understand the decision that was made.

 

You understand it. You may just choose to believe that she's not that kind of person - but she is based on the evidence.

 

Sometimes it's very hard to separate what we know and what we wish to believe about others. It's useful to look at/consider actions. A persons actions tell you who they really are. Especially what they do when no one is bound to find out.

 

You do understand the excision she made... But you're simply choosing no deny the reality of it.

 

Can you have a counselor work with you on your denial? I went through a year of intensive therapy for trauma and denial was a big part of letting it go. I had to address what was real instead of the lies I kept telling myself.

 

When I wrote it out on paper - there was NO WAY of arguing what happened... I had to comes to grips with processing MY pain of realizing my spouse was never the person I THOUGHT HE WAS. I tricked myself for 23 years into thinking he was kind and loving - when in reality he was just selfishly always thinking of getting what he wanted and them some.

 

I'm free from that now - but the hard work was worth getting past the pain of how I fooled myself by believing his constant lies.

[HereNorThere]

Yes, most would... Mainly because they are only thinking of themselves in that moment/time frame - that and thinking they won't get caught.

 

True, the very fact that they don't want to get caught shows that they have some forethought into what they are doing and how it would effect their spouse.

 

Don't get me wrong, most only care about having to deal with the fall out of hurting their spouse, but they know it will hurt them, no doubt.

 

And the small percentage of people who actually don't think it would hurt their spouse are the most dangerous ones of all. That implies that they don't have ANY empathy.

[beach]

True, but the very fact that they don't want to get caught shows that they have some forethought into what they are doing and how it would effect their spouse.

 

Don't get me wrong, most only care about having to deal with the fall out of hurting their spouse, but they know it will hurt them, no doubt.

 

And the small percentage of people who actually don't think it would hurt their spouse are the most dangerous ones of all. That implies that they don't have ANY empathy.

 

I'm not sure most consider anything much about the pain it might inflict upon the unknowing spouse - most ONLY think of themselves. Getting caught I don't think they consider the spouse even - it's more of how it may ruin their reputation or standing with family, friends or community... (Consequences)

 

BUT if consequences were really considered FIRST... I think so many wouldn't cheat so easily.

 

And - many cheaters simply have no conscience. And many have little consequences IF they get caught...

[atreides]

no, actually... you're the one doing that.

addiction is a disease. saying that cheaters are addicts - you're basically saying they're doing it because they can't help themselves & with that, you are excusing their behavior & removing their responsibility. cheating is NOT an addiction (unless the person is mentally ill & had deeper problems) - it's a bunch of decisions you make because you WANT to, not because you HAVE to.

 

I was trying to convey that i do not see them as victims and thought that is what you got from it, your assessment of being an addict categorizes them as such.

all addictions start with choices, actually a progression of choices before the high becomes the driver and takes over. It is the very chaos you read about that waywards themselves when finally over the high cannot believe they did.

It is the same reason one can drink and not allow oneself to get drunk.

an addiction is not a "pathological condition" IE disease although depending on the chemical used for the high, getting off can be "pathological . Your view of an addiction perhaps skews why you cannot see infidelity as such.

Addicts don't have excuses, they control their own paths.

 

you always have a choice - and you choose to be unfaithful. nothing in infidelity is "accidental" - cheaters know very well what they're doing and they're still doing it.

 

Yes, just like addicts. They are fully aware and hide, secrets lie and deny just like cheaters.

 

i really don't know why you think i'm making cheaters look like victims - because i'm doing quite the opposite. maybe i wasn't clear enough.

 

no, not at all... i gathered you disagreed because you saw my position as framing cheaters as victims. quite the opposite, addictions are not diseases and are self-brought and path to it completely by choice.

 

 

i'm lurking on this Forum since the year of 2010, FYI.

 

you must have missed alot, i cannot see how you have missed so many stories here and also other forums where it was "just for fun" and "nothing wrong with my marriage" or "my husband is such a great guy" and on and on.

 

no, this is wrong & illogical. sorry.

 

 

 

quite the opposite.

 

serial cheating is actually not for thrill, as in the sense of "serial" they are usually very broken beyond being an addict and for example some stories, abused and want a specific result from the act to abate the pain and such.

 

 

 

no need to be rude and offensive.

 

no, you took it the wrong way. going down the path to explain why good marriages have infidelity vs all the other listed items will drive one in circles without answers IE a road to idiocy. not to you literally.

 

 

i never said the relationship or a marriage need to be PERFECTLY happy. but you really can't sell me the story talking about "the state of your R or M has nothing to do with you being unfaithful" at all. that doesn't make sense to me and it probably never would. AGAIN! i'm not talking about serial cheaters, i'm talking about people who genuinely do fall in love and feel something deeper for their AP.

 

ah, "genuine love" be very careful... i don't know of one instance of an affair that is real love, except those that are "Planned" for exit which are very few. Most if you lurk more, will say "i have no intention of leaving, blah blah" Sure something is felt, as lust and obsession can be felt. But love is what keeps us together when the bills need paying, the kids go off to school, when there is not enough milk.

AN affair does not have the test of the "mundane in life" IE it not only cheats us but the cheater as well.

That is not to say when all options are gone that they cannot fall in love with their AP. Affairs are chemically driven, that is why there is all of this talk of fog, irrational behavior and so on. That is why affairs also, most last very short, they are intense and fizzle. Some can last longer but on average, they escalate far faster and as many waywards say, "the sex was terrible" "i don't know why i went back" after the fact when they are out of the haze. The affair escalates because it starts off with inadequacies which is driven by dependency and needs to feed itself and thus behaviors that never existed before such as leaving children at place x,y and z, or sexual behaviors once thought to be disgusting and never repeated happen.

When we fall in love and vet our partners fully, they get the full test of our desires vs an affair which usually has nothing do with our criteria. It is the rush that carries the affair, but our hearts and minds that make love.

 

 

with all due respect... i don't think you understand what "addiction" & "addicts" mean.

 

addiction IS a deeper issue.

 

I work with addicts, lived with addicts... society liked to soften the blow as in "they are not bad" just like waywards while they are it is not a permanent label, we can overcome our addictions and become a better person for it. Disease is a political label but not a medical one in this context.

 

 

from the national library of medicine

Addiction does not meet the criteria specified for a core disease entity, namely the presence of a primary measurable deviation from physiologic or anatomical norm.2 Addiction is self-acquired and is not transmissible, contagious, autoimmune, hereditary, degenerative or traumatic. Treatment consists of little more than stopping a given behaviour. True diseases worsen if left untreated. A patient with cancer is not cured if locked in a cell, whereas an alcoholic is automatically cured.

 

This is why we take control when cheated on or we hope to if we can muster it, we set boundaries, we expose we do x,y and z to stop the behavior. It is containment if you will. Many use VARs, GPS, openly have transparency, no passwords, facebook and the list goes on. Like the "locked in a cell" as described above. However what is more painful with this addiction is that it betrays us, we are the victim more personally than most other types of addictions from the direct betrayal to ourselves and others.

 

but this is not the logic i'm using. you keep misunderstanding my words.

cheating (in most cases) means that you don't love your partner the way you're supposed to. it also means you have a character flaw - hence you decided to handle it the wrong way. so you should both leave your partner AND work on you.

 

who told you that people who cheat don't divorce? because they do, all the time. the thing is... they divorce only AFTER their 2nd option is waiting for them.

 

no, i was countering and separating what i disagree with to show you the flaw in logic in that; Marriage problems are not infidelity problems, they are separate. You answered by saying, one can fix their "personal problem" and still not love...

my answer to that is what needs fixing is not the love but the cheat. As in to answer your second statement, i said, it is why they don't divorce firstly, the cheat is the issue. When you don't love, healthy behavior is to divorce and not cheat.

In other words it is fair to say we are allowed to fall out of love, healthy behavior would respond by saying let's end the relationship vs cheating.

 

Lurk some more and find those stories where waywards say things like "my husband is a great guy" "nothing wrong with my marriage" and so on.. many self-proclaimed happy marriages and yet they cheat. It's not the marriage, it comes from within. You said it yourself "character flaw" ... a diplomatic way of going about it, bu I agree.

 

i don't want to t/j further and text cannot convey tone, but thanks for a good discussion.

Edited March 6, 2015 by atreides

[HereNorThere]

I was trying to convey that i do not see them as victims and thought that is what you got from it, your assessment of being an addict categorizes them as such.

all addictions start with choices, actually a progression of choices before the high becomes the driver and takes over. It is the very chaos you read about that waywards themselves when finally over the high cannot believe they did.

It is the same reason one can drink and not allow oneself to get drunk.

an addiction is not a "pathological condition" IE disease although depending on the chemical used for the high, getting off can be "pathological . Your view of an addiction perhaps skews why you cannot see infidelity as such.

Addicts don't have excuses, they control their own paths.

 

 

You've got a few good points in there, but I think your addiction model is a little bit off. Technically, everything you do is has a chemical basis. After all, all you really are is the sum of all your billions of neurons communicating via chemical and electrochemical impulses. You are your brain, period. I always get a nice chuckle when I hear someone say "I would never put chemicals in body." Lol, we are chemicals. Our thoughts require chemicals and we have to synthesize these chemicals via precursors. In a way, were all just bunch of walking, talking meth labs. In fact, at any given time, you're actually in possession of chemicals that are highly illegal to possess (i.e Ghb.)

 

Anything that ramps up various pleasure inducing neurotransmitters like dopamine, serotonin, norepinephrine, etc. can be can considered "addictive." This is why recreational drugs work so well and can be so addictive. Most of them are indigenous to our brain. Cannabis, Ghb, Alcohol, opiates, cocaine, ketamine, are either already present in your body, mimic what's in your body or act on certain receptor sites that your body naturally uses. Look at sugar, it's a pretty much a toxic poison at high doses, most people are addicted to it and your brain will die without it.

 

Current medical addiction models look at it from the perspective of addiction vs. physical dependence. Taking any chemical or doing chemical releasing activities like sex, working out, eating can cause physical dependence and eventually withdrawal or as what the pharmaceutical industry refers to as "discontinuation syndrome."

 

Addiction implies that a person is willing to continue the behavior despite drastic consequences or harm.

 

Here's what I think you're missing - There is about 20% of the population that for whatever become addicts. It honestly doesn't even matter what the substance or activity is, they become addicts. Most of these people are considered poly substance abusers because they're addicts to more than one substance and not necessarily at the same. They may give up cocaine and take up gambling or give up gambling and become addicted to cheeseburgers. Whatever the reason, they lack the impulse control to curb their behavior.

 

This is by very definition a condition in and of itself. Mental illness doesn't always mean that you have structural abnormalities in your brain or chemical imbalances, a lot of times it just means that you differ from the baseline of what we consider normal human behavior.

 

Just because you have the capacity for self control doesn't mean that everyone does. The human brain is one of the most complex systems we've found in the Universe. Being so complex means that it can break or deviate from the norm in a number of different ways. Addiction and obsessive behavior is one of those ways.

 

Of course not all cheaters are addicts. Some simply made a stupid decision like we all do from time to time. However, some of them fit the medical criteria for addiction because they simply cannot control themselves. It doesn't excuse their behavior but it does explain it.

 

This is why is its so important to not put so much emphasis on incidents and more on their overall personality type and profile. A huge percentage of the cheaters on here have very similar personality traits that are just big, giant red flags, but their betrayed spouse don't see the forest, they're too busy looking at the trees.

Edited May 19, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Arieswoman]

Just wondering if people would actually choose to stray if they really understood what they were going to do to their spouse?

 

Yes, because self-examination and empathy aren't very high on a cheater's agenda at the time as they are deep in the "affair fog", so they will never understand (or care) about the consequences.

 

My exH told me ;-

 

"I knew it was wrong but I never thought I would get caught" and "it's not fair, other guys of work have done it, but the first time I do it I get caught". How's that for entitlement and total lack of understanding and empathy?

[atreides]

You've got a few good points in there, but I think your addiction model is a little bit off.

 

 

In your analysis i could concur for something deeper than just the "addiction" also good points. I would counter and say addictions in of themselves can be incidents. The incident spanning x time frame. But I digress.. as your point was more macro than micro.

Back to my point in agreement with you from what i gather is that marriage problems have nothing to do with infidelity.

You are indeed arguing that cheaters have "issues" IE "giant red flags" thus the problem lies from within >> which also clearly makes cheating a personal problem and not a marital one. that was my main point to the other poster.

I can agree to disagree or agree more so as to if it is an addiction or something more and an incident vs something more to evaluate in the study of infidelity so long as it is treated as a personal problem.

Edited March 6, 2015 by atreides