God isn't real.

[LookAtThisPOst]

The evidence we have that God doesn't exist is the same evidence you have that vampires and werewolves don't exist

 

The two are not even comparable.

[LookAtThisPOst]

Usually I mind my own business about atheism, but lately in the news, I'm seeing atheists attempting to rid certain monumental structures to God or anything that references to God that had been already pre-existing and going out of their way to have them removed.

 

That part is pretty scary.

[NGC1300]

You don't have evidence he doesn't exist either. I get a kick out of atheists that talk about how the universe was created by the "Big Bang" and not God. And I usually end that statement with, "God said bang!"

 

Usually that ends the conversation.

 

You don't have evidence Zeus doesn't exist. You don't have evidence the great Juju at the bottom of the sea doesn't exist.

 

You don't have evidence there isn't 100 Million dollars buried in your backyard, so why aren't you digging for it?

 

You see, most intelligent people aren't going to believe in (or even leave open the possibility of) the Easter bunny just because nobody has proven his nonexistence. And yet this is exactly the argument many theists want to use in defense of their god. This is Russell's teapot.

[NGC1300]

The evidence we have that God doesn't exist is the same evidence you have that vampires and werewolves don't exist

 

Exactly. Russell's teapot.

[endlessabyss]

That explains why less than 15% of philosophers are theists and more than 70% are atheists... or does it?

 

 

Where do you get this stat? lol. Please, provide me a source.

 

 

Even reading through Antony Flews book he mentioned that there has been a renaissance of theistic philosophers in the discipline.

 

 

BOOM! Listen to one of the contemporary greats.

 

 

And even if you were correct, it still wouldn't matter: http://www.philosophicalsociety.com/Archives/The%20Gadarene%20Swine%20Fallacy.htm The arguments speak for themselves.

Edited March 8, 2015 by endlessabyss

[LookAtThisPOst]

You don't have evidence Zeus doesn't exist. You don't have evidence the great Juju at the bottom of the sea doesn't exist.

 

You don't have evidence there isn't 100 Million dollars buried in your backyard, so why aren't you digging for it?

 

You see, most intelligent people aren't going to believe in (or even leave open the possibility of) the Easter bunny just because nobody has proven his nonexistence. And yet this is exactly the argument many theists want to use in defense of their god. This is Russell's teapot.

 

 

 

It's just rather sad that atheists are attempting to take action to take down these already pre-existing monuments dedicated to God? The fact that they even want to take away "under God" in "One nation, under God?" I find that rather telling.

 

Things that had already existed where people feel a strong need to relieve society of the knowledge of the Lord's existence pretty much ACTUALLY affirms the existence of God. A true atheist would not go out of their way to do this.

[Clair93]

Where do you get this stat? lol. Please, provide me a source.

 

 

Even reading through Antony Flews book he mentioned that there has been a renaissance of theistic philosophers in the discipline.

 

 

BOOM! Listen to one of the contemporary greats.

 

 

And even if you were correct, it still wouldn't matter: http://www.philosophicalsociety.com/Archives/The%20Gadarene%20Swine%20Fallacy.htm The arguments speak for themselves.

 

The arguments do speak for themselves, and the people most educated and equipped to study and analyze the arguments (i.e. philosophers) are mostly atheists.

 

Source: Preliminary Survey results | PhilPapers Surveys

Note: This is the largest ever survey of philosophers.

God: theism or atheism?

Accept or lean toward: atheism

678 / 931 (72.8%)

Accept or lean toward: theism

136 / 931 (14.6%)

Other

117 / 931 (12.6%)

 

 

And if you want to talk about arguments, please give us the best one you've got.

Edited March 8, 2015 by Clair93

[endlessabyss]

The arguments do speak for themselves, and the people most educated and equipped to study and analyze the arguments (i.e. philosophers) are mostly atheists.

 

Source: Preliminary Survey results | PhilPapers Surveys

Note: This is the largest ever survey of philosophers.

God: theism or atheism?

Accept or lean toward: atheism

678 / 931 (72.8%)

Accept or lean toward: theism

136 / 931 (14.6%)

Other

117 / 931 (12.6%)

 

 

And if you want to talk about arguments, please give us the best one you've got.

 

 

 

Ok, the numbers I looked at were a little different, but come to the same inference.

 

 

It still doesn't matter though. A hand raising competition doesn't determine what is true or not, and in this discipline, just like contemporary science, it is riddled with political and emotional bias to a certain position, regardless of what the best explanations for said phenomenon are. I also should throw in peer pressure as a variable that determines this democratic process as well.

 

 

I am completely confident and comfortable with where I stand, in regards to these discussions. The weak get frightened by majority vote, and disappear, the strong see through.

 

 

The arguments that I concede to are the ones I expounded upon in my previous thread that I created about Antony Flews conversion. Those arguments persuaded me long ago, but that is just to reference what you asked for.

Edited March 8, 2015 by endlessabyss

[NGC1300]

It's just rather sad that atheists are attempting to take action to take down these already pre-existing monuments dedicated to God? The fact that they even want to take away "under God" in "One nation, under God?" I find that rather telling.

 

Things that had already existed where people feel a strong need to relieve society of the knowledge of the Lord's existence pretty much ACTUALLY affirms the existence of God. A true atheist would not go out of their way to do this.

 

The government shouldn't be endorsing any religious beliefs. I agree some of these atheists can get extreme, but that is their point. If you're not bothered by god in the pledge of allegiance, or by the 10 commandments in front of a courthouse, then you should also have no objection to statues of the prophet Muhammad, or references to Islam in the pledge.

[badpenny]

.....If you're not bothered by god in the pledge of allegiance, or by the 10 commandments in front of a courthouse, then you should also have no objection to statues of the prophet Muhammad, or references to Islam in the pledge.

 

Well, Mohammed does appear in the frieze adorning the Supreme Court....

[umirano]

It's just rather sad that atheists are attempting to take action to take down these already pre-existing monuments dedicated to God? The fact that they even want to take away "under God" in "One nation, under God?" I find that rather telling.

 

In my country we don't have public prayers, still our constitution starts with "In the name of god, the almighty ... ". There are several problems with this. First of, I want most of this constitution to be relevant and valid even if there's no god. Putting god first makes it look like the whole thing depends on a god's existence. Just plain dumb imo. Secondly, it could be interpreted that the constitution is only relevant for those who believe in the existence of a (?) god. Stupid, again, IMNSHO.

 

Really, what do believers lose when god isn't shoved down into everybody else's throat?

 

Also, the reference to god on the dollar bills was introduced in the 1950s, during the red-scare. It's an ongoing statement of fear, basically. That must be a real source of pride to the upright believer. Similarly the "one nation under god" was added to the pledge only in the 20th century. Your nation, and in that it truly stands out, was founded as a nation separate from any church. By shoving down religion people's throat by public means the USA becomes like - rather descends to the - other nations. I hope true american patriots will stand up for what their nation once stood. Freedom and the right to pursue happiness (even - and especially - if you don't believe).

 

Things that had already existed where people feel a strong need to relieve society of the knowledge of the Lord's existence pretty much ACTUALLY affirms the existence of God. A true atheist would not go out of their way to do this.

 

I am not sure what you're trying to say here. There is no such thing as knowledge of a god's existence. There's knowledge of australia's existence, that's what knowledge looks like. And no, disputing superman's existence doesn't affirm his existence. Same thing for your god.

 

A good person regardless of their convictions would distance themselves from shoving down their worldview other people's throats using tax payer's money.

[SSJROMANCE]

I myself am amazed at how many really intelligent people believe in a God. But there are many reasons why one would including being brainwashed as a child, had some sort of a super natural event that happened (or so they thought) in their life oh and I can go on and on. The fact is U will never convince one who does believe in God that there isn't a God and vice versa. For instance my wife is a believer and believes that God is listening to her prayers and gives him credit for all the good things that happen in her life. And blames herself for all the bad that happens. There is no wonder why she has such a low self esteem - geez.

 

For those who think atheists take digs at people who believe in God. Well why do people insist on shoving God down our throats? Day in and day out I get facebook posts saying "like if U love God". Bla bla bla over and over and over. I don't post things saying "like if U can think for yourself and believe U own your own faith".

 

I don't think atheists are mostly depressed but I get why one would believe in God, love the church and all of at. It's very comforting to think that someone all mighty powerful has got your back. That church is a feeling of belonging. A community of sorts. I get all that and because of that it would indeed make a person much happier. And I'm all for that except for if it's based around a belief that some man in the sky is listening to everyone's prayers and answers them count me out. It's not happening. But good for U for those who live a happy life believing this. Bad things happen to believers who put their faith in Gods hands.

[alphamale]

People who believe in a God (or whatever higher power) are much happier than those who don't

[carhill]

"What is real? How do you define 'real'? If you're talking about what you can feel, what you can smell, what you can taste and see, then 'real' is simply electrical signals interpreted by your brain."

 

God may not exist in my 'real' but who's to say such an entity doesn't exist in another's real. Since none of us can read minds nor quantitatively analyze the sensory inputs and processes of another, and such would always be qualified by our 'reality', we really have no way of knowing one way or another.

 

Heh...

[wed4ever]

People who believe in a God (or whatever higher power) are much happier than those who don't

 

I feel I'm happier and more stable minded since I left Christianity. IME devout christians, the ones who take it very seriously, carry a lot of torment inside. They never feel deep down that they can please god.

[stillafool]

We should all be open to spiritual experience, but "god" isn't real and I think most intelligent adults have some sense of this; if we take "god" to mean the man that can hear and answer prayers, or lives in the sky.

 

And yet you start a thread about something you think isn't real. Oh, okay. Why waste your time?

[badpenny]

People who believe in a God (or whatever higher power) are much happier than those who don't

 

Actually, I would dispute this: I am actually a far more serene and personally contented being now, than I was when I adhered to a Theistic religion.

I follow Buddhism now, but I do not define or describe the Buddha as a 'Higher Power'.

 

If I put forward my own personal experience, I have found that the people I know who are God-led, seem to be habitually frustrated and vexed by the fact that either God is not answering their prayers, or is doing so, but not in ways they necessarily want or require (their gripes, not mine).

 

Given that I have never asked the Buddha for anything, I tend to be less disappointed if results are less than favourable.

It is what it is.

 

Finally, the dispute of whether God exists or not, is pointless. Neither view can be proven, so discussing it is a fruitless exercise, and I don't bother pondering it. Where's the point?

[umirano]

And yet you start a thread about something you think isn't real. Oh, okay. Why waste your time?

God likely isn't real in terms of physics. But it does exist as a concept. And so does religion, or more generally the notion that we can make claims about the nature of our world without having to back them up. And these concepts have serious consequences for society.

 

Just because you don't believe in the veracity of arian purity concepts doesn't mean you can't talk about national socialism.

[umirano]

People who believe in a God (or whatever higher power) are much happier than those who don't

 

I take it you have some actual data to back that claim? Or is it just anecdotal evidence?

[autumnnight]

Again, it is strange to me that someone would come to a forum about spirituality and religious beliefs and basically call everyone who posts sincerely there idiots.

 

That being said, I think I can understand wed's perspective. Faith that is built on punishment, wrath, exposing dark deeds, judgment, self-flagellation, etc. would be just about the most depressing way to live I can imagine. Unless of course the person practicing that kind of faith really DOES believe they are nearly as perfect as God. In which case, it would just be sad to be that arrogant and deluded.

[endlessabyss]

God likely isn't real in terms of physics.

 

 

Does this even makes sense? lol

 

 

Where do you come up with this stuff?

[minimariah]

People who believe in a God (or whatever higher power) are much happier than those who don't

 

i noticed this, too.

 

it's mostly because "the believers" are comforted with the thought of afterlife & someone looking after them, makes them feel less alone. it's much harder to accept that we exist & don't have a higher purpose and that a lot of things happen without a special reason... just because.

 

those who are aware of what death really means & how unfair life is (without having a religion as a comfort) are usually unhappier than those who believe in God, yes.

[NGC1300]

i noticed this, too.

 

it's mostly because "the believers" are comforted with the thought of afterlife & someone looking after them, makes them feel less alone. it's much harder to accept that we exist & don't have a higher purpose and that a lot of things happen without a special reason... just because.

 

those who are aware of what death really means & how unfair life is (without having a religion as a comfort) are usually unhappier than those who believe in God, yes.

 

In that sense, god and religion is a means to escape reality. And it's righteous to do so, and it's righteous to indoctrinate your children with falsehoods as well. But if you escape reality via drugs and alcohol, hurting nobody but yourself, you will be shamed.

[autumnnight]

That depends. Is one partaking of drugs and alcohol in one's home, using one's own money, on one's own time?

 

Or is one stealing, or killing someone while driving drunk?

 

When I spend time with friends, some of whom are atheists, I am not sitting there quietly seething that they do not believe what I believe. I do not feel better or more righteous than they.

 

I find it ironic that I sense such judgment, self-righteousness, and condescension coming from those who do not believe, when apparently I am supposed to be the one who is intolerable.

[minimariah]

In that sense, god and religion is a means to escape reality. And it's righteous to do so, and it's righteous to indoctrinate your children with falsehoods as well. But if you escape reality via drugs and alcohol, hurting nobody but yourself, you will be shamed.

 

i wouldn't call it escaping... you can't escape death.

but it makes it easier to cope and to accept our own mortality - in my humble opinion, that's the reason why religion was "created" in the 1st place. because we can't cope with our own mortality.