Wife found out about affair

[SleekArchitecture]

There is a huge divorce rate in the US, maybe all over the world. Sometimes people are not meant to stay together until death do us part.

 

If it was so easy than there would not be so many splits.

 

 

I do agree that many marriages are based on foundations of different types of love. It all depends on what a person is willing to settle for and what both are willing to put up with and importantly comfortable with. But you cannot generalize love.

 

 

There are those who are soul mates and never lose any type of love, they stay infatuated, in love, love, friends, and god knows what else. You know the type, married for years, still cuddled (real not fake or show) in the corner table of the restaurant, gazing into one another's eyes, in love, and cannot get enough of one another, all over each other.

 

They are the trixie twin couple never apart and skipping all the way down the long yellow brick road.

[minimariah]

Too many people get caught up in the "he's like my best friend, so that can't be love". If that is all there is, then I agree. On the other hand, if a;l there is is "romance" ( or whatever other term you want to use) then that isn't love either.

 

the OP said he didn't feel romantic love for his spouse for a long time & i assume that "long time" means at least more than a year - they have the partnership & the friendship but the romantic love is nowhere to be found (from the OP's side) according to the OP himself. i'm not dead wrong at all, you just didn't read my post carefully.

 

i never said that romantic love and best friends are mutually exclusive - i'm just tired of people acting like they don't know the difference between the love you feel for your romantic partner & the one you feel for your best friend. and yes - there IS a difference. you don't love your romantic partner and your friends with the same type of love, now do you? it's hilarious reading "oh, i love my spouse because he/she is a good person, deserves the best, amazing friend, amazing partner BUUUUUUT i'm not in love with him/her, not feeling any romantic love, don't really desire him/her BUT that's love" - no, no. it's really not. and i feel sorry for anyone who is staying in that kind of relationship and marriage thinking that it's normal to NOT feel romance or passion for your partner after a decade. you're just with the wrong person, that's all.

 

It's the combination of the two that will make a relationship last. If there is only the one, it's very hard to sustain.

 

plot twist - you can have the friendship & partnership without the romantic love but you can't have the romantic love without the friendship & partnership. how can you possibly romantically love someone and NOT be their partner & friend? what kind of disappointing love is that?

 

For me, there were times when my heart was broken and I couldn't feel any "romantic love" for my husband, but it was the deep friendship and partnership that got us through.

 

aha & how long did these "times" last for you? months, years? minutes? seconds? & what do you mean - you weren't friends sometimes? what, you just decided NOT to be friends with your husband at one time and then restarted that friendship? i don't understand.

 

every relationship & friendship has it's ups and downs - we aren't talking about that here, we aren't talking about mini fights here, we're talking about something that has been lacking for a loooooong time in a relationship. this isn't some small crisis, this is a dealbreaker.

[SleekArchitecture]

Duplicate post.

Edited March 15, 2015 by SleekArchitecture
Duplicate post

[truncated]

the OP said he didn't feel romantic love for his spouse for a long time & i assume that "long time" means at least more than a year - they have the partnership & the friendship but the romantic love is nowhere to be found (from the OP's side) according to the OP himself. i'm not dead wrong at all, you just didn't read my post carefully.

 

i never said that romantic love and best friends are mutually exclusive - i'm just tired of people acting like they don't know the difference between the love you feel for your romantic partner & the one you feel for your best friend. and yes - there IS a difference. you don't love your romantic partner and your friends with the same type of love, now do you? it's hilarious reading "oh, i love my spouse because he/she is a good person, deserves the best, amazing friend, amazing partner BUUUUUUT i'm not in love with him/her, not feeling any romantic love, don't really desire him/her BUT that's love" - no, no. it's really not. and i feel sorry for anyone who is staying in that kind of relationship and marriage thinking that it's normal to NOT feel romance or passion for your partner after a decade. you're just with the wrong person, that's all.

 

 

 

plot twist - you can have the friendship & partnership without the romantic love but you can't have the romantic love without the friendship & partnership. how can you possibly romantically love someone and NOT be their partner & friend? what kind of disappointing love is that?

 

 

 

aha & how long did these "times" last for you? months, years? minutes? seconds? & what do you mean - you weren't friends sometimes? what, you just decided NOT to be friends with your husband at one time and then restarted that friendship? i don't understand.

 

every relationship & friendship has it's ups and downs - we aren't talking about that here, we aren't talking about mini fights here, we're talking about something that has been lacking for a loooooong time in a relationship. this isn't some small crisis, this is a dealbreaker.

 

 

I'm talking about the time after we lost our daughter. We both tried so damned hard to keep her in this world, but she chose otherwise.

 

After that, there was no romantic love . We were both numb. It was then that romantic love wouldn't have meant squat, and that lasted for a long time. ( at least a year) It was our deep friendship, sense of partnership and feeling of being "one" that got us through.

 

This is what I am trying to say. romantic love is wonderful, but there is so much more to a marriage. From what the op says, at one time, he did feel romantic love for his wife, and he hasn't really indicated when that stopped.

 

One thing I have heard that can help a person to sort out their feelings is to go back and look at old photos, letters, notes and mementos of their relationship. Try and measure your relationship through those things. One couple I know of was in a similar place to the op and his wife, with the wh feeling like he hadn't been in love with his wife in a long time. When he was going through old day to day notes they'd been sending back and forth, he realized that, up until the time he met his ow, he had been very much in love with his wife. I;m not saying meeting the ow caused that, but for whatever the reason, there was a correlation. For him, figuring out what that was helped him sort through his feelings.

[velvette]

one is love & the other isn't and i have no idea why so many people confuse that. it's clear what you're supposed to feel for someone you're romantically involved with - like, we KNOW what kind of love you're supposed to feel for your boyfriend, girlfriend, partner, spouse. if you don't feel that love, that exact type of love? then you don't love that person.

 

but of course, that sounds "too simple" & people get defensive so they start with a "i love her as a good person, as a friend, as someone i've known for many years" stories. of course you love that person, you don't hate them. but if that love isn't any different from the love you feel for your best friend? that's not the kind of love you're supposed to be feeling.

 

we don't need new words for love, we just have to stop calling everything and every kind, nice, sweet feeling "love". like, stop with this "gradation" of love. you know what is romantic love supposed to feel like - if you don't feel that, you don't love that person. it's seriously as simple as that.

 

You have it all wrong. OP has clearly stated he was "in love" with his wife in the beginning. The reason he doesn't feel "in love" with her now is because he has harbored resentment for the way she has interacted with him because it hurts him. (Also, because he has been hanging out with OW who is stroking his ego and telling him whatever he wants to hear and she hasn't gotten around to things that hurt him yet, although he can see she is headed that way from her behavior if she doesn't get her way.) If he learns how to stand up for himself and tell her what he wants and needs and navigate that the resentment will fade, his needs will be met and he will feel in love again. That's how it works in all relationships.

 

 

Ditto for her. He has likely disappointed her in some way we don't know because he doesn't know so cant tell us.

 

 

Once they work on whatever is causing resentment for both of them they will likely feel in love again.

[velvette]

As heartbreaking as it is, that is a possibility. All these years, she's been the one really satisfied with the marriage, really committed, really happy with everything.

 

I've always been the one dissatisfied. A lot of it has to do with our general personalities. I am intellectually curious, she is not. She loves stability and security, I like adventure and discovery. She sees the world in Black and White, i see the world in all shades of grey (no pun intended). I continually seek change and growth personally, she takes pride in staying the same person, considers herself more reliable and dependable (she has an INTENSE HATRED for flaky people, she's ended a lot of friendships because the person flaked out on an appt or was very late).

 

So obviously, there are many issues to us connecting, which has led me to be very dissatisfied. When I met my xAP, she was very kind, understanding and receptive to all of my thoughts and ideas, and although it wasn't right, it felt very soothing and happy for me. I felt like a part of me was stimulated which has not been all these years.

 

 

Marriages of opposites can be much trickier to negotiate than when people are the same, but they can also be very rewarding and much more well rounded.

 

 

The key is learning to value each others differences. Obviously, there is a part of you that values stability and security or you would be with your OW now instead of your W.

 

 

Same for your wife. She has some tolerance for flakiness or she would have kicked your ass to the curb by now.

 

 

The reality is that your way is no more valuable than hers.

 

 

What is your wife stopping you from doing in your life with regard to adventure?

 

 

The key to having a happy marriage when you have different personalities is to learn to appreciate each others differences and use your strengths to build a stronger marriage.

[Furious]

OP

 

Your ow told you she was looking for a mentor to take her under his wings and have romantic feelings for her. She broke up with you, but later admitted it was a ploy. After d-day she was ecstatic about it. She threatened to harm herself and come to your home. She belittled your marriage and said you and your wife's future dreams were those of under achievers.

 

On the other hand, you say your wife enjoys stability, and i get the feeling you feel that stability is boring. You claim to love her, but...you're not "in love with her".

 

Throughout your thread you've been all over the map. You've disparaged the OW and then defend her. You disparage your and yet defend her. It's like you're pitting these two women against each other in a way and your some kind of prize to be fought over.

 

The truth is, it's not about the OW or your wife. It's about you, you....and you...

 

A few weeks ago, you had it all. A wife you told your affair you would not leave and an OW on the side.

 

Unfortunately, this has blown up, and the bubble you've been living in has burst.

You are now scrambling to make a choice, but the reality is you didn't want to make a choice. You liked having both and it's hard for you to man up.

 

At the end of the day, wherever you go, there you are. This isn't about the women in your life, this is about you and the pattens you will repeat if you don't get real with yourself.

[minimariah]

You have it all wrong. OP has clearly stated he was "in love" with his wife in the beginning.

 

their beginning was a decade ago.

and i really don't have it wrong at all - i'm simply following his posts. in my opinion, he fell out of love and stopped feeling romantic connection to his W long before the A started.

 

not every relationship & marriage needs or can be saved.

 

That's how it works in all relationships.

 

it really doesn't.

just because you were in love with someone ONCE - it doesn't at all mean that you'll fall in love with that person again. in fact, that happens rarely. if your words were true - then we would all still be with those we fell in love with for the very 1st times in our lives.

 

relapses of "faling in love" (feeling butterflies & that infatuation and crazy in love passion from the beginning) are common with those couples who never fell out of love in the 1st place - meaning, with the couples who never lost their romantic love and the connection. in cases like this? rarely.

 

Once they work on whatever is causing resentment for both of them they will likely feel in love again.

 

i doubt this. you can't force yourself to fall in love with someone. it's also possible to fall out of love and stop loving that person romantically.

 

the main thing for me - the OP doesn't know what he feels for his W. that's the problem. he already said he has trouble identifying and knowing his own feelings so that's another personal problem that needs to be solved.

 

i believe the OP when he says he loves his W. i do. but i think he doesn't & can't love her romantically anymore. and i think he's slowly realizing it. BUT i could be wrong. i won't wish the OP for his marriage to work - instead, i will wish him to do what will truly make HIM happy. not his xAP, not the W. but HIM. he needs to do whatever is the best for him and his feelings. and to do that, i truly believe he needs to spend some time on his own + IC. he needs to get to know himself first.

[obtuseedge]

their beginning was a decade ago.

and i really don't have it wrong at all - i'm simply following his posts. in my opinion, he fell out of love and stopped feeling romantic connection to his W long before the A started.

 

not every relationship & marriage needs or can be saved.

 

 

 

it really doesn't.

just because you were in love with someone ONCE - it doesn't at all mean that you'll fall in love with that person again. in fact, that happens rarely. if your words were true - then we would all still be with those we fell in love with for the very 1st times in our lives.

 

relapses of "faling in love" (feeling butterflies & that infatuation and crazy in love passion from the beginning) are common with those couples who never fell out of love in the 1st place - meaning, with the couples who never lost their romantic love and the connection. in cases like this? rarely.

 

 

 

i doubt this. you can't force yourself to fall in love with someone. it's also possible to fall out of love and stop loving that person romantically.

 

the main thing for me - the OP doesn't know what he feels for his W. that's the problem. he already said he has trouble identifying and knowing his own feelings so that's another personal problem that needs to be solved.

 

i believe the OP when he says he loves his W. i do. but i think he doesn't & can't love her romantically anymore. and i think he's slowly realizing it. BUT i could be wrong. i won't wish the OP for his marriage to work - instead, i will wish him to do what will truly make HIM happy. not his xAP, not the W. but HIM. he needs to do whatever is the best for him and his feelings. and to do that, i truly believe he needs to spend some time on his own + IC. he needs to get to know himself first.

 

I don't know if I can romantically love her again. It's possible. I still consider her physically attractive. It's just that we've long disconnected so when we are together, conversation is often dead or there is tension from past issues.

[obtuseedge]

OP

 

Your ow told you she was looking for a mentor to take her under his wings and have romantic feelings for her. She broke up with you, but later admitted it was a ploy. After d-day she was ecstatic about it. She threatened to harm herself and come to your home. She belittled your marriage and said you and your wife's future dreams were those of under achievers.

 

On the other hand, you say your wife enjoys stability, and i get the feeling you feel that stability is boring. You claim to love her, but...you're not "in love with her".

 

Throughout your thread you've been all over the map. You've disparaged the OW and then defend her. You disparage your and yet defend her. It's like you're pitting these two women against each other in a way and your some kind of prize to be fought over.

 

The truth is, it's not about the OW or your wife. It's about you, you....and you...

 

A few weeks ago, you had it all. A wife you told your affair you would not leave and an OW on the side.

 

Unfortunately, this has blown up, and the bubble you've been living in has burst.

You are now scrambling to make a choice, but the reality is you didn't want to make a choice. You liked having both and it's hard for you to man up.

 

At the end of the day, wherever you go, there you are. This isn't about the women in your life, this is about you and the pattens you will repeat if you don't get real with yourself.

 

Well, I don't mean to come off as self absorbed, but the fact is, I haven't really focused on how I've felt for a long time. I think that's critical that I come to identify that, otherwise how can I be satisfied in this relationship, and thus be a good husband?

 

The fact is, I do consider that a valid option. Just being single for a while to figure out my own mind and my life.

[velvette]

their beginning was a decade ago.

and i really don't have it wrong at all - i'm simply following his posts. in my opinion, he fell out of love and stopped feeling romantic connection to his W long before the A started.

 

not every relationship & marriage needs or can be saved.

 

 

 

it really doesn't.

just because you were in love with someone ONCE - it doesn't at all mean that you'll fall in love with that person again. in fact, that happens rarely. if your words were true - then we would all still be with those we fell in love with for the very 1st times in our lives.

 

relapses of "faling in love" (feeling butterflies & that infatuation and crazy in love passion from the beginning) are common with those couples who never fell out of love in the 1st place - meaning, with the couples who never lost their romantic love and the connection. in cases like this? rarely.

 

 

 

i doubt this. you can't force yourself to fall in love with someone. it's also possible to fall out of love and stop loving that person romantically.

 

the main thing for me - the OP doesn't know what he feels for his W. that's the problem. he already said he has trouble identifying and knowing his own feelings so that's another personal problem that needs to be solved.

 

i believe the OP when he says he loves his W. i do. but i think he doesn't & can't love her romantically anymore. and i think he's slowly realizing it. BUT i could be wrong. i won't wish the OP for his marriage to work - instead, i will wish him to do what will truly make HIM happy. not his xAP, not the W. but HIM. he needs to do whatever is the best for him and his feelings. and to do that, i truly believe he needs to spend some time on his own + IC. he needs to get to know himself first.

 

 

We can agree to disagree. If OP was not in love with his wife anymore and didn't want to be, he would be gone. There is no mistaking that feeling.

 

 

He has resentment. He has said so. Love/feeling in love withers in the face of resentment. He needs to resolve that resentment. And, same for his wife. Given everything he has presented hear, I feel sure she has her own resentments. If he doesn't feel in love after that then he needs to move own. But, imo, the reason he is so conflicted is that he knows there is still something there that can be fixed.

 

 

When its over you know and you are gone.

[minimariah]

I'm talking about the time after we lost our daughter. We both tried so damned hard to keep her in this world, but she chose otherwise.

 

first of all, my deepest condolences for your loss. i can't even imagine that pain. but your situation cannot be compared to the OP's situation, in my opinion. you went through a huge tragedy so the "disappearance" of your romantic love CAN be explained and understood.

 

OP never had any big thing or big tragedy that caused him to lose the romantic connection. they simply grew apart over the years, didn't really communicate & well... i'm sure it was a long process & it eventually had the A as a result.

 

[quote=velvette;6214591

This is what I am trying to say. romantic love is wonderful, but there is so much more to a marriage. From what the op says, at one time, he did feel romantic love for his wife, and he hasn't really indicated when that stopped.

 

there is no marriage without the romantic love, that's the point. if you don't love your spouse romantically - you are married to just another friend. the romantic love is what makes your relationship... well, romantic. that's the foundation.

 

i will never understand how people spend decades in relationships & marriages to someone who is literally not more than just a friend.

 

sometimes falling out of love and losing that romantic connection means that the person isn't right for you. sure, some marriages can and will be saved. but some won't. that's why i'm pushing the OP to find out what his true feelings are on his own. no need to save the marriage at whatever cost. if it doesn't need to be saved, it won't. as simple as that.

 

One thing I have heard that can help a person to sort out their feelings is to go back and look at old photos, letters, notes and mementos of their relationship.

 

this is a good advice - going through old notes, photos, remembering all those shared memories and moments together. yes, this can definitely resurrect some (maybe?) buried and forgotten feelings.

[obtuseedge]

Marriages of opposites can be much trickier to negotiate than when people are the same, but they can also be very rewarding and much more well rounded.

 

 

The key is learning to value each others differences. Obviously, there is a part of you that values stability and security or you would be with your OW now instead of your W.

 

 

Same for your wife. She has some tolerance for flakiness or she would have kicked your ass to the curb by now.

 

 

The reality is that your way is no more valuable than hers.

 

 

What is your wife stopping you from doing in your life with regard to adventure?

 

 

The key to having a happy marriage when you have different personalities is to learn to appreciate each others differences and use your strengths to build a stronger marriage.

 

She doesn't stop me from having any adventures. It's just that since we are very different people when it comes to being curious about the world and self-discovery, we don't have much to talk about in that department. For years, I've felt like being in my marriage was a very unstimulating and boring existence. However, I know a lot of other married couples and honestly, I don't see their lives being more exciting, but perhaps they have different needs.

[minimariah]

If OP was not in love with his wife anymore and didn't want to be, he would be gone.

 

not at all, this is where you're completely wrong. besides, you're forgetting that he actually WAS gone - he had an affair. he still doesn't know what to do or feel and he accepts the marriage being over as something that might happen. so he isn't "all in" either.

 

people stay married for various of reasons & they're not in love with their spouses at all. some even get married to people they were never in love with in the 1st place. keep in mind that the OP does love his W as a friend, as someone who spent so many years with him so he doesn't want to hurt her. she also represents stability, they have a home they built together, they have a business together, mutual friends... it's hard leaving that all behind.

 

just because he is staying, it doesn't mean that he's in love or wants his spouse romantically. this is actually a common mistake.

 

besides - he already said he wasn't in love with his W. so there is that.

Edited March 16, 2015 by minimariah

[minimariah]

I don't know if I can romantically love her again. It's possible. I still consider her physically attractive. It's just that we've long disconnected so when we are together, conversation is often dead or there is tension from past issues.

 

everything is possible - you can definitely reconnect and even make your relationship with the W stronger than ever, i've seen it happen. so it's not impossible.

 

this is my point - you need to know if you even WANT to romantically love her again. i think this is a chance for you to finally connect with YOU and your feelings. to finally do whatever you want and what you feel is right. so... take it. it's a perfect opportunity to work on yourself and to learn how to deal and express your own emotions.

[obtuseedge]

everything is possible - you can definitely reconnect and even make your relationship with the W stronger than ever, i've seen it happen. so it's not impossible.

 

this is my point - you need to know if you even WANT to romantically love her again. i think this is a chance for you to finally connect with YOU and your feelings. to finally do whatever you want and what you feel is right. so... take it. it's a perfect opportunity to work on yourself and to learn how to deal and express your own emotions.

 

Thanks for the advice. BTW, you have a lot of insight into the psychology of others. You're very intelligent.

 

The fact is, I was thinking about this today. For years, my relationship has not been fulfilling. But I've stayed because of the following reasons.

 

1. Strong attachment to my wife. Every time I think about leaving her, I feel very heartbroken. So I stay.

 

2. Feeling of responsibility and duty to her, and the home/history we've built together.

 

3. The idea that simply feeling "bored", or "unfulfilled" is not a good enough one to walk away from a good woman and a generally decent relationship in which we both still care greatly for one another.

 

But sometimes I think about spending an entire life in a marriage in which I don't feel fulfilled or not having a partner who truly understands my thoughts, it feels depressing.

[beach]

Listen, you can feel your feelings any way you want... But expecting your partner to know those feelings is a different story - THAT takes solid communication.

 

One person speaking and the other REALLY listening.

 

 

 

To expect solid communication from your wife when you've never gotten that is unrealistic. Especially if she's not willing to go to counseling and open to changing things about herself.

 

You either accept that about her or you don't.

 

 

But the bottom line is you were the one who cheated and you have self discovery to tend to on your own. Maybe when you figure some things out about yourself you may "feel" differently about all of this.

 

 

But in the meantime - make sure she can't/won't get pregnant.

[Furious]

Well, I don't mean to come off as self absorbed, but the fact is, I haven't really focused on how I've felt for a long time. I think that's critical that I come to identify that, otherwise how can I be satisfied in this relationship, and thus be a good husband?

 

The fact is, I do consider that a valid option. Just being single for a while to figure out my own mind and my life.

 

This is your opportunity to be honest and sincerely strive for an amicable divorce.

 

If there were no affair, it would be understandable to seek being "single" for awhile to figure out your own mind and life. Once you entered into an affair, you became "single" in a sense, except you failed to inform your wife that you had already become single and had embarked into a new relationship.

 

I believe your wife deserves a clean break, to put her through a false reconciliation is cruel.

 

For some reason, you are having difficulty in really ending your marriage. The thing is, your marriage stands no chance if you're sitting on a fence.

 

I get the feeling that now that you know your wife is willing to try to reconcile, you can dither with being in limbo. It's as though you need to have the assurance that you have the option to keep your marriage while you go and find yourself.

 

I understand that divorce is a huge thing,...but...in a way you're already divorced, it's now just about getting it in writing.

[SleekArchitecture]

When you wrote of your wife and you building a home together along with your conflicting feeling regarding your love reminds me of a song by The Cinematic Orchestra 'To Build A Home,' please u tube it, if it does not make you think deeply or bring tears to your eyes, you may not be human.

 

I listened to it during my own broken marriage and the end. I was drowning in tears, although I am female, but it was good therapy in it's own way.

[stillcold]

Hey obtuse,

 

Sorry you have to be going through this, but I hope I can shed some light in what I see is going on with you. Some quick facts I think are true:

 

1) You still love your wife.

2) Your relationship with your wife is overall good.

3) You were romantically in love with your wife before--which means you can get it back.

4) You are physically attracted to her, another big positive--if you weren't, I'd advise you to consider leaving.

5) The major issue with your relationship is that you are not being stimulated enough intellectually or emotionally.

 

I think fact #5 is the wherein the problem lies with your relationship; you are craving that emotional and intellectual stimulation which all goes back to an emotional connection. I am not implying that you have NO emotional connection with your W, but that your emotional connection is not as STRONG since your relationship is unable to stimulate you in that regard. So think of it this way: emotional connection is a basic and innate need just like hunger or thirst; the longer you are hungry or thirsty, the more you crave it; the more you crave it, the more satisfying it is when you obtain it. Case in point, it seems you've been deprived of intellectual stimulation/emotional connection in your marriage for some time, and your AP is that outlet for that need; and since you've been so deprived for so long, it is IMMENSELY satisfying, thus deep feelings of love. And your AP, likewise, has been living with a abusive man who has deprived her of many basic needs and traits of love, and similarly you too are her outlet of all the things that were lacking.

 

That is why you and the AP came together: you were both LACKING something that was fulfilled through each other. That is also I would advise you to reconsider your AP and her stability in a long term relationship: she's coming out of an abusive relationship, so ANYTHING would be better than that OP, and to her you're that anything. If she was a normal gal that wasn't dealing with any relationship problems at the time and was happily single, I'd truly tell you to consider her seriously, but she's just a hurting person needing help OP.

 

So to sum up all I wrote: be weary of the long-term stability and romantic potential of your AP as she is coming out of an abusive relationship, and is thus making choices from an entirely different context than a happily single person would do, so the validity of her actions are subject to major question. You still love your wife, and you were romantic with her before, so you can get those feelings back if you work on your marriage by communicating with her and telling her everything you feel is lacking. You can fix this, don't throw away a good thing without a try! Take care OP, let us know as you make your choices. Don't do anything drastic without being 100% sure about it. You may regret it.

[jan2012]

Thank you. This is honestly what I am going through.

 

Honestly, I go through major mood swings. Sometimes I wake up and I feel extremely committed to making my marriage work. I think about how good my wife has been, our history, a future together and I want to make it right.

 

Sometimes I have flashbacks to the deep emotional connection between me and my xAP and I miss her greatly. I wonder if I can ever find that with my wife because it was deeper than what we've ever had. It makes me want to leave.

 

Right now I am not trusting my impulses. I think I need time, more counseling and making the right decision. If I stay in this marriage, I want to make sure I am 100% ready to be the best husband I can be for my wife and also that I can be happy staying in it, because otherwise, what is the point?

 

it is interesting that you don't like antidepressants, yet you go through major mood swings. Anti depressants I hear are best suited for moody people.

[fellini]

Obtuse, I have to agree with Furious. This is all about you. It always has been, and it always will be. And now, here in LS, you are making your issues clearer.

 

You refuse to come out of limbo.

 

 

You continue to allow yourself to believe that you have a choice to make, and your inability to make this decision is your justification for continuing to live in limbo. In limbo you don't have to deal with a failed marriage, and in limbo you have your ideal woman. These are all merely constructs in your head.

 

You decided a long time ago you just don't seem to know it.

 

Listen to your talk about your W! You only talk about being the "best husband"! For who? HER? Yourself? Those around you who tell you X, Y, Z?

 

Your AP threatened suicide, threatened emotional abuse, and you protected her. Most men would run. RUN RUN RUN from a person who is either TOXIC or a Narcissist or BOTH. I don't doubt that your AP is wonderful, exciting, challenging, etc. The truth is falling in love with a narcissist is the greatest feeling in the world. UNTIL she has you.

 

Sometimes you want your marriage back, but you practically say you would need to build something that ISNT THERE. (recover a feeling, but really, you don't even fully believe in this feeling)

 

Isn't it really this: "I want the AP in my marriage without having to go through the pain and suffering of having to admit this to my wife, have my friends and colleagues see me for what I am, and live with the consequences of HAVING MADE A DECISION."

 

Is that or is that not REALLY what is on your mind right now.

 

If someone could magically change your AP with your W, you would be a very happy man, correct? But with a catch: WITHOUT THE CONSEQUENCES THAT ALL THAT CAUSES.

 

Look Obtuse, you made the decision to leave your wife in bits and pieces when you found what it was you think you really want for yourself.

 

Yes, it's a bit shallow to trade UP a woman. But really, if that is what you want, if that is what you believe will truly make you happy, then just DO IT.

 

Of course you don't have to make this decision now, you can give yourself "2 or 3 months". But something tells me you don't really want to disconnect your feelings for your AP and you don't really want this marriage to work, but YOU DO NOT WANT TO BE THE PERSON TO MAKE THAT DECISION.

 

This is, really, entirely about YOU and the game you are playing to remain in LIMBO for as long as it takes for a solution to PRESENT ITSELF TO YOU because you are very very clear that you do not want to make it yourself, even though your previous actions have demonstrated you already know what you want.

 

So what is it keeping you from actually making a real life decision? Is this who you are? Is it about your happiness? It would be so much easier here for people not to have to GUESS what is going on in your head if you would stop talking about what these women do FOR YOU and start talking about your actually emotions in non-abstract ways.

 

Neither of these two women are going to make YOU happy. And waiting "to see" what happens is not the solution either. Move on. Live with your decisions, because surely by now you can see NOT DECIDING is not the route to your happiness. Make an authentic choice for YOU, and do everything you can to make it work. If that means ending your marriage, they do it. If that means never seeing the AP and living authentically with your Wife then DO IT. If that means leaving them both to be with yourself (not to see "what you want" - that's nonsense - "find myself) and build a new life (which I doubt for a second you are capable of doing - because fear of being alone seems to be high in your list of "not going to happen") then DO IT.

 

It's remarkable how as a WS you managed to be in two relationships and enjoyed it. Now, you have to choose, and you still refuse, because you have been given permission by both to "see how it goes". Each one thinks you are going to choose wisely and choose them. But you sir, are the WS, not the BS. Perhaps your wife should wake you up with divorce papers. I hope she doesn't because it is clear you will suddenly fight to keep her when in fact you really do not wish to. You seem pretty stable being messed up. Life goes on.

 

 

Well, I don't mean to come off as self absorbed, but the fact is, I haven't really focused on how I've felt for a long time. I think that's critical that I come to identify that, otherwise how can I be satisfied in this relationship, and thus be a good husband?

 

The fact is, I do consider that a valid option. Just being single for a while to figure out my own mind and my life.

Edited March 16, 2015 by fellini

[SleekArchitecture]

Obtuse, I have to agree with Furious. This is all about you. It always has been, and it always will be. And now, here in LS, you are making your issues clearer.

 

You refuse to come out of limbo.

 

 

You continue to allow yourself to believe that you have a choice to make, and your inability to make this decision is your justification for continuing to live in limbo. In limbo you don't have to deal with a failed marriage, and in limbo you have your ideal woman. These are all merely constructs in your head.

 

You decided a long time ago you just don't seem to know it.

 

Listen to your talk about your W! You only talk about being the "best husband"! For who? HER? Yourself? Those around you who tell you X, Y, Z?

 

Your AP threatened suicide, threatened emotional abuse, and you protected her. Most men would run. RUN RUN RUN from a person who is either TOXIC or a Narcissist or BOTH. I don't doubt that your AP is wonderful, exciting, challenging, etc. The truth is falling in love with a narcissist is the greatest feeling in the world. UNTIL she has you.

 

Sometimes you want your marriage back, but you practically say you would need to build something that ISNT THERE. (recover a feeling, but really, you don't even fully believe in this feeling)

 

Isn't it really this: "I want the AP in my marriage without having to go through the pain and suffering of having to admit this to my wife, have my friends and colleagues see me for what I am, and live with the consequences of HAVING MADE A DECISION."

 

Is that or is that not REALLY what is on your mind right now.

 

If someone could magically change your AP with your W, you would be a very happy man, correct? But with a catch: WITHOUT THE CONSEQUENCES THAT ALL THAT CAUSES.

 

Look Obtuse, you made the decision to leave your wife in bits and pieces when you found what it was you think you really want for yourself.

 

Yes, it's a bit shallow to trade UP a woman. But really, if that is what you want, if that is what you believe will truly make you happy, then just DO IT.

 

Of course you don't have to make this decision now, you can give yourself "2 or 3 months". But something tells me you don't really want to disconnect your feelings for your AP and you don't really want this marriage to work, but YOU DO NOT WANT TO BE THE PERSON TO MAKE THAT DECISION.

 

This is, really, entirely about YOU and the game you are playing to remain in LIMBO for as long as it takes for a solution to PRESENT ITSELF TO YOU because you are very very clear that you do not want to make it yourself, even though your previous actions have demonstrated you already know what you want.

 

So what is it keeping you from actually making a real life decision? Is this who you are? Is it about your happiness? It would be so much easier here for people not to have to GUESS what is going on in your head if you would stop talking about what these women do FOR YOU and start talking about your actually emotions in non-abstract ways.

 

Neither of these two women are going to make YOU happy. And waiting "to see" what happens is not the solution either. Move on. Live with your decisions, because surely by now you can see NOT DECIDING is not the route to your happiness. Make an authentic choice for YOU, and do everything you can to make it work. If that means ending your marriage, they do it. If that means never seeing the AP and living authentically with your Wife then DO IT. If that means leaving them both to be with yourself (not to see "what you want" - that's nonsense - "find myself) and build a new life (which I doubt for a second you are capable of doing - because fear of being alone seems to be high in your list of "not going to happen") then DO IT.

 

 

 

It's remarkable how as a WS you managed to be in two relationships and enjoyed it. Now, you have to choose, and you still refuse, because you have been given permission by both to "see how it goes". Each one thinks you are going to choose wisely and choose them. But you sir, are the WS, not the BS. Perhaps your wife should wake you up with divorce papers. I hope she doesn't because it is clear you will suddenly fight to keep her when in fact you really do not wish to. You seem pretty stable being messed up. Life goes on.

 

By my having dealt with a certified Narcissist for many years, I see so many people being labeled one and I have my doubts. They may be selfish or overly emotional but not a narcissist.

 

As much as he insulted his AP, she would have endured great narcissistic insult and is seething beyond hell inside and is ready for payback or complete discarding. Devalue and Discard like you are a paper towel. The venom that comes out of them is astonishing and one for the record books.

[fellini]

Well my experience and reading has taught me something more revealing about narcissist behaviour is that having invested considerably in him for narcissistic supply, she is not going to let HIM just walk away to be with a woman she considers her competition and less worthy. If at some point she has to grasp that he really has gone, we can assume she will turn it around to be her choice, not his, or merely his failing, so she is lucky to be rid of him. If they have been anywhere as close as he claims, he is already her primary source of NS even though he is married, in fact his being married increases her sense of having achieved something. If she is even remotely narcissistic. One does not have to be a full blown Narcissist to play that way.

 

There is zero question in my mind that OP is calculating his losses and in that equation he is factoring in how long he has before AP herself moves on.

 

Whether or ot his AP is NPD or merely over entitled is not for anyone here to decide, myself included - but that she displays narcissistic tendencies is pretty clear

 

 

By my having dealt with a certified Narcissist for many years, I see so many people being labeled one and I have my doubts. They may be selfish or overly emotional but not a narcissist.

 

As much as he insulted his AP, she would have endured great narcissistic insult and is seething beyond hell inside and is ready for payback or complete discarding. Devalue and Discard like you are a paper towel. The venom that comes out of them is astonishing and one for the record books.

[SleekArchitecture]

Well my experience and reading has taught me something more revealing about narcissist behaviour is that having invested considerably in him for narcissistic supply, she is not going to let HIM just walk away to be with a woman she considers her competition and less worthy. If at some point she has to grasp that he really has gone, we can assume she will turn it around to be her choice, not his, or merely his failing, so she is lucky to be rid of him. If they have been anywhere as close as he claims, he is already her primary source of NS even though he is married, in fact his being married increases her sense of having achieved something. If she is even remotely narcissistic. One does not have to be a full blown Narcissist to play that way.

 

There is zero question in my mind that OP is calculating his losses and in that equation he is factoring in how long he has before AP herself moves on.

 

Whether or ot his AP is NPD or merely over entitled is not for anyone here to decide, myself included - but that she displays narcissistic tendencies is pretty clear

 

 

I suppose, maybe, but having gone through it, I can say out of knowing many, and many with all sorts of problems, I never met another true narcissist.

 

I would see the last Cafe meeting, going much differently than two people agreeing to be sad and tearful. It would played out quite differently. There would have been a cruel haughtiness to ever word play out to their audience. "You, you really think you have upset, (I)", and then crippling coldly mentioned piercing deep insults. A empty cold sneer/smile.

 

Then oh my gosh, the narc has that one thing they love most, an audience, the wait staff! Next cue is embarrassing the one who dared cause the painful deep narcissistic insult, by remarking to the staff, "Ah (and using either a demeaning purposeful mocking wrong name of the waitress) ah Susie, David here thinks he is full of ideas today, and is more intelligent than 'I ha ha cruel laugh, and so on.

 

There may be something else, we all have traits and weaknesses, but a malignant narcissist is truly evil is you had the misfortune of getting closer than others. They love and adore their fans of course, but get close, and snap.