Wife found out about affair

[thummper]

Well, my wife is DEFINITELY a very physically attractive woman, I'm not just saying that because she is my wife. But she definitely gets a lot of male attention.

 

And considering where your marriage seems to be heading, she'll most likely be getting a lot more of that kind of attention soon. How do you feel about other men being with your wife? If she is as attractive as you say, there's no doubt that, after your divorce, she'll be bedded by someone else. That thought bother you? It would certainly bother me.

[fellini]

Yes, I understand. Not in any way convinced that she is as narcissistic as say, BlackHat is. But on the other hand I'm not overly convinced at OP'S was of telling us the story of his life. I'm sure that scene at the cafe had other interpretations. And as long as he is telling her he is still connected to her, she needn't burn his bridges until endgame is in sight. You must know that even Narcissist s when they see defeat coming, can play the victim beautifully, empathy emerges like an icebreaker all of a sudden, and the game goes on...

 

 

I suppose, maybe, but having gone through it, I can say out of knowing many, and many with all sorts of problems, I never met another true narcissist.

 

I would see the last Cafe meeting, going much differently than two people agreeing to be sad and tearful. It would played out quite differently. There would have been a cruel haughtiness to ever word play out to their audience. "You, you really think you have upset, (I)", and then crippling coldly mentioned piercing deep insults. A empty cold sneer/smile.

 

Then oh my gosh, the narc has that one thing they love most, an audience, the wait staff! Next cue is embarrassing the one who dared cause the painful deep narcissistic insult, by remarking to the staff, "Ah (and using either a demeaning purposeful mocking wrong name of the waitress) ah Susie, David here thinks he is full of ideas today, and is more intelligent than 'I ha ha cruel laugh, and so on.

 

There may be something else, we all have traits and weaknesses, but a malignant narcissist is truly evil is you had the misfortune of getting closer than others. They love and adore their fans of course, but get close, and snap.

[SleekArchitecture]

Yes, I understand. Not in any way convinced that she is as narcissistic as say, BlackHat is. But on the other hand I'm not overly convinced at OP'S was of telling us the story of his life. I'm sure that scene at the cafe had other interpretations. And as long as he is telling her he is still connected to her, she needn't burn his bridges until endgame is in sight. You must know that even Narcissist s when they see defeat coming, can play the victim beautifully, empathy emerges like an icebreaker all of a sudden, and the game goes on...

 

I am not sure what is going on with that one. They seem to share a lot of themselves, their inner self, they definitely are not playing to gain adoration here. I see multitude of fantasies and delusions though, of harems of women wishing to please them. Self esteem in the bucket?

Edited March 16, 2015 by SleekArchitecture

[jan2012]

Affairs are tricky, they always at some point involve some level of leverage and power position, or at the very least they involve somebody feeling taken advantage of or dismissed. Somebody always has the advantage when secrecy is involved.

[velvette]

 

it really doesn't.

just because you were in love with someone ONCE - it doesn't at all mean that you'll fall in love with that person again. in fact, that happens rarely. if your words were true - then we would all still be with those we fell in love with for the very 1st times in our lives.

 

.

 

 

If you were in love with someone and you let that love die by harboring resentment as OP has described, of course it wont magically reappear.

 

 

People fall in love when they are spending lots of time together that makes them feel good, and they are also getting their primary needs met. Hence why he feels in love with OW and not wife.

 

 

It seems to me one of OP primary needs is admiration which he doesn't get from his W because she is "self righteous/overly critical". He resents his W for this and distanced himself from her to avoid being hurt rather than find a way to resolve this issue.

 

 

Affairs are frequently the way someone who is unable to resolve conflict within a marriage deals with their unhappiness over the conflict.

 

 

People don't just magically fall in or out of love. When you fall out of love for a reason, the most logical thing is to address that reason. If it can be satisfactorily resolved, love will return. If not, its time to move on.

[minimariah]

People fall in love when they are spending lots of time together that makes them feel good, and they are also getting their primary needs met.

 

incorrect.

 

how do you explain people falling in love in a long distance relationships - where they RARELY spend any time together? how do you explain people falling & being in love with those who DON'T get their primary needs met, those who treat them horribly?

 

you cannot manipulate or force love & falling in love, it doesn't work that way. people, in fact, sometimes DO fall out of love for no obvious reason - sometimes their needs change and the person is no longer enough. they grew apart and they don't longer fit together. sometimes there is no reason - the person just wasn't right for you.

 

It seems to me one of OP primary needs is admiration which he doesn't get from his W because she is "self righteous/overly critical". He resents his W for this and distanced himself from her to avoid being hurt rather than find a way to resolve this issue.

 

i agree but that was a long process & resenting her isn't the only reason he fell out of love. they're simply too different and never really worked on confronting those differences, they never communicated & grew apart over the years and now you have this mess. just because they were ONCE in love and happy it doesn't meant that they'll be again if they fix their issues. they can fix their issues all they want - that still doesn't mean that they'll have the romantic love back. especially now, when the OP's emotions for the OW are already stronger than anything he ever felt for the W before.

 

People don't just magically fall in or out of love. When you fall out of love for a reason, the most logical thing is to address that reason. If it can be satisfactorily resolved, love will return. If not, its time toon.

 

in fact - they do.

 

you cannot control your emotions and love won't appear again just because you decided to work really hard on bringing it back. you can't choose who you'll fall in OR out of love with. sure, you can work on a relationship, communication, bonding and sex. that STILL doesn't mean you won't fall out of love with that person. one fact people don't want or can't accept - you can absolutely fall OUT of love for no reason. i mean, it happened to me and it happened to a lot of people all around me - so clearly it IS possible, no?

 

if it was this simple as you say - you wouldn't have so many failed relationships and marriages where people did EVERYTHING they could, fixed their issues and still didn't get out of it together.

 

the truth is - once you lose the romantic interest & love for the person, once you fall out of love and that doesn't grow into this strong and mature romantic love? you probably won't ever get it back and even if you do - it's usually very short lived.

[fellini]

People in a long distance relationship do in fact spend time together, and more importantly they dedicate an enormous amount of time thinking and having intrapersonal conversations with the other.

 

I'm not sure anyone here has the complete taxonomy of all the ways people can fall in love figured out. There are too many variables, individual preferences, history, combining with millions of permutations and combinations.

 

 

incorrect.

 

how do you explain people falling in love in a long distance relationships - where they RARELY spend any time together? how do you explain people falling & being in love with those who DON'T get their primary needs met, those who treat them horribly?

 

you cannot manipulate or force love & falling in love, it doesn't work that way. people, in fact, sometimes DO fall out of love for no obvious reason - sometimes their needs change and the person is no longer enough. they grew apart and they don't longer fit together. sometimes there is no reason - the person just wasn't right for you.

 

 

 

i agree but that was a long process & resenting her isn't the only reason he fell out of love. they're simply too different and never really worked on confronting those differences, they never communicated & grew apart over the years and now you have this mess. just because they were ONCE in love and happy it doesn't meant that they'll be again if they fix their issues. they can fix their issues all they want - that still doesn't mean that they'll have the romantic love back. especially now, when the OP's emotions for the OW are already stronger than anything he ever felt for the W before.

 

 

 

in fact - they do.

 

you cannot control your emotions and love won't appear again just because you decided to work really hard on bringing it back. you can't choose who you'll fall in OR out of love with. sure, you can work on a relationship, communication, bonding and sex. that STILL doesn't mean you won't fall out of love with that person. one fact people don't want or can't accept - you can absolutely fall OUT of love for no reason. i mean, it happened to me and it happened to a lot of people all around me - so clearly it IS possible, no?

 

if it was this simple as you say - you wouldn't have so many failed relationships and marriages where people did EVERYTHING they could, fixed their issues and still didn't get out of it together.

 

the truth is - once you lose the romantic interest & love for the person, once you fall out of love and that doesn't grow into this strong and mature romantic love? you probably won't ever get it back and even if you do - it's usually very short lived.

[obtuseedge]

Yes, I understand. Not in any way convinced that she is as narcissistic as say, BlackHat is. But on the other hand I'm not overly convinced at OP'S was of telling us the story of his life. I'm sure that scene at the cafe had other interpretations. And as long as he is telling her he is still connected to her, she needn't burn his bridges until endgame is in sight. You must know that even Narcissist s when they see defeat coming, can play the victim beautifully, empathy emerges like an icebreaker all of a sudden, and the game goes on...

 

Your interpretation of our last meeting is totally off. Fact is, she was very vulnerable and sad, but tried to keep up an upbeat demeanor til the end when she started tearing up. She told me she understood my decision but she'd miss me like crazy. She's not a narcissist.

 

Anyways, I'll have to digest the other things you wrote and think about if they pertain to me. I think some of it is relevant.

[obtuseedge]

Hey obtuse,

 

Sorry you have to be going through this, but I hope I can shed some light in what I see is going on with you. Some quick facts I think are true:

 

1) You still love your wife.

2) Your relationship with your wife is overall good.

3) You were romantically in love with your wife before--which means you can get it back.

4) You are physically attracted to her, another big positive--if you weren't, I'd advise you to consider leaving.

5) The major issue with your relationship is that you are not being stimulated enough intellectually or emotionally.

 

I think fact #5 is the wherein the problem lies with your relationship; you are craving that emotional and intellectual stimulation which all goes back to an emotional connection. I am not implying that you have NO emotional connection with your W, but that your emotional connection is not as STRONG since your relationship is unable to stimulate you in that regard. So think of it this way: emotional connection is a basic and innate need just like hunger or thirst; the longer you are hungry or thirsty, the more you crave it; the more you crave it, the more satisfying it is when you obtain it. Case in point, it seems you've been deprived of intellectual stimulation/emotional connection in your marriage for some time, and your AP is that outlet for that need; and since you've been so deprived for so long, it is IMMENSELY satisfying, thus deep feelings of love. And your AP, likewise, has been living with a abusive man who has deprived her of many basic needs and traits of love, and similarly you too are her outlet of all the things that were lacking.

 

That is why you and the AP came together: you were both LACKING something that was fulfilled through each other. That is also I would advise you to reconsider your AP and her stability in a long term relationship: she's coming out of an abusive relationship, so ANYTHING would be better than that OP, and to her you're that anything. If she was a normal gal that wasn't dealing with any relationship problems at the time and was happily single, I'd truly tell you to consider her seriously, but she's just a hurting person needing help OP.

 

So to sum up all I wrote: be weary of the long-term stability and romantic potential of your AP as she is coming out of an abusive relationship, and is thus making choices from an entirely different context than a happily single person would do, so the validity of her actions are subject to major question. You still love your wife, and you were romantic with her before, so you can get those feelings back if you work on your marriage by communicating with her and telling her everything you feel is lacking. You can fix this, don't throw away a good thing without a try! Take care OP, let us know as you make your choices. Don't do anything drastic without being 100% sure about it. You may regret it.

 

This is good advice and I think it is spot on. Yes, I have been lacking Item 5 like you said, for a long time.

 

I am also aware that my xAP's long abusive relationship was a major factor in our affair as well. She often compared our relationship as heaven as opposed to the 9 years of "hell" she had to endure. She also said I was the first man who was also her "best friend". So I think we filled each other's emotional needs very strongly, stimulated each other intellectually and on top of that, the intense physical attraction was what made the affair so intense.

 

It would be easy for me to just run to her, but the same reservations you have put out are the same ones in my mind. Your notes about how sad it'd be to throw my marriage away when it is salvageable and good for the most part really resonates with me as well.

[obtuseedge]

Well, my wife is DEFINITELY a very physically attractive woman, I'm not just saying that because she is my wife. But she definitely gets a lot of male attention.

 

And considering where your marriage seems to be heading, she'll most likely be getting a lot more of that kind of attention soon. How do you feel about other men being with your wife? If she is as attractive as you say, there's no doubt that, after your divorce, she'll be bedded by someone else. That thought bother you? It would certainly bother me.

 

It does bother me. I also feel great pain when I think of not having her in my life.

[autumnnight]

29 pages and you are STILL talking primarily about your AP.

 

What are you doing for your WIFE?

[velvette]

This is good advice and I think it is spot on. Yes, I have been lacking Item 5 like you said, for a long time.

 

I am also aware that my xAP's long abusive relationship was a major factor in our affair as well. She often compared our relationship as heaven as opposed to the 9 years of "hell" she had to endure. She also said I was the first man who was also her "best friend". So I think we filled each other's emotional needs very strongly, stimulated each other intellectually and on top of that, the intense physical attraction was what made the affair so intense.

 

It would be easy for me to just run to her, but the same reservations you have put out are the same ones in my mind. Your notes about how sad it'd be to throw my marriage away when it is salvageable and good for the most part really resonates with me as well.

 

 

Stillcold has nicely summarized what I have been explaining to you.

 

 

The key now is to clearly define what you need and what you want your marriage to look like so that you can explain this to your wife. Its one thing to say you need intellectual stimulation, but what does that mean or look like to you. Same for your need to hear admiration from her rather than criticism.

 

 

Many people think that if they have to spell out their needs to their partner the partner doesn't love them. This is what gets people into trouble. As well as not being effective at communicating them so that the conversation deteriorates and results not only in not getting needs met but being hurt as well.

 

 

I'm curious what main things your wife criticizes you about. Whether her criticism is valid or not, if there is a pattern it may tell you a lot about how she is disappointed in this marriage or which of her needs are not being met.

[minimariah]

I'm not sure anyone here has the complete taxonomy of all the ways people can fall in love figured out. There are too many variables, individual preferences, history, combining with millions of permutations and combinations.

 

indeed - which is why you really can't say that the only reason the OP fell out of love is resentment and if he fixes it, he will fall right back in love.

 

love really isn't all that complicated but folks are always trying to make a science out of it.

 

OP - what's going on now anyway? you're still NC with the xAP? how is your relationship with your W, what is the situation at home?

 

will you do MC together?

Edited March 16, 2015 by minimariah

[SleekArchitecture]

indeed - which is why you really can't say that the only reason the OP fell out of love is resentment and if he fixes it, he will fall right back in love.

 

love really isn't all that complicated but folks are always trying to make a science out of it.

 

OP - what's going on now anyway? you're still NC with the xAP? how is your relationship with your W, what is the situation at home?

 

Much of what you said has been extremely insightful, but LOVE is science. The pheromones, hormones, and subconscious selection of genes as we mate, and lets not forget the transmission of Dopamine, Serotonin, and Oxytocin.

[MJJean]

Many people think that if they have to spell out their needs to their partner the partner doesn't love them. This is what gets people into trouble. As well as not being effective at communicating so that the conversation deteriorates and results not only in not getting needs met but being hurt as well.

 

It's not just that people don't think their partner loves them, they usually go on to say things like "My W/H doesn't appreciate me!" and "My W/H doesn't understand me!". Both of which are things heard commonly from WS's.

 

The truth is, unless you're married to a psychic, clear, open, and honest communication is vital. Even if you think your spouse should already know, tell them anyway!

[GorillaTheater]

Much of what you said has been extremely insightful, but LOVE is science. The pheromones, hormones, and subconscious selection of genes as we mate, and lets not forget the transmission of Dopamine, Serotonin, and Oxytocin.

 

I'd argue that what you're describing has a lot more to do with organic chemistry than it does love. The chemical processes slow down considerably after a couple of years while love, more of an action verb, can and often does grow.

 

People fall into affairs because chemistry appears to be sexier than grammar.

[Raines]

I've told my AP that I would be out of contact for the next few weeks while I focus on my marriage.

 

 

No, this is not sufficient. Either you commit to your wife and cut the OW out of your life COMPLETELY, or just do your wife a favor and move out and start the divorce process.

 

 

How do you think your wife, if receptive to the idea of reconciliation and working on the marriage, would feel about you putting a simple moratorium on contact with the OW? Do you think she will like you contacting AT ALL any more? Nobody in their right mind is going to not see that as a slap in the face after deciding to keep a cheater.

 

 

So if your wife is gracious enough to try to forgive you and work on the marriage, then cut all contact NOW. Anything else is a slap in her face.

[Raines]

No, I'm not IN LOVE with my wife. But I do LOVE her. There is NO DOUBT about that. The fact is, feeling "in love", that's part of the infatuation stage of the relationship. When you are together for over a decade, that feeling wears off, and then you develop a different type of love.

 

 

 

Oh, just read this. Ignore what I said above. Do your wife a favor, move out and get a divorce.

[SleekArchitecture]

I'd argue that what you're describing has a lot more to do with organic chemistry than it does love. The chemical processes slow down considerably after a couple of years while love, more of an action verb, can and often does grow.

 

People fall into affairs because chemistry appears to be sexier than grammar.

 

No arguing necessary, simply read up on the science of love. It is quite fascinating. There are certain chemicals released in long term relationships, stabilizing chemicals.

[anika99]

incorrect.

 

how do you explain people falling in love in a long distance relationships - where they RARELY spend any time together? how do you explain people falling & being in love with those who DON'T get their primary needs met, those who treat them horribly?

 

you cannot manipulate or force love & falling in love, it doesn't work that way. people, in fact, sometimes DO fall out of love for no obvious reason - sometimes their needs change and the person is no longer enough. they grew apart and they don't longer fit together. sometimes there is no reason - the person just wasn't right for you.

 

 

 

i agree but that was a long process & resenting her isn't the only reason he fell out of love. they're simply too different and never really worked on confronting those differences, they never communicated & grew apart over the years and now you have this mess. just because they were ONCE in love and happy it doesn't meant that they'll be again if they fix their issues. they can fix their issues all they want - that still doesn't mean that they'll have the romantic love back. especially now, when the OP's emotions for the OW are already stronger than anything he ever felt for the W before.

 

 

 

in fact - they do.

 

you cannot control your emotions and love won't appear again just because you decided to work really hard on bringing it back. you can't choose who you'll fall in OR out of love with. sure, you can work on a relationship, communication, bonding and sex. that STILL doesn't mean you won't fall out of love with that person. one fact people don't want or can't accept - you can absolutely fall OUT of love for no reason. i mean, it happened to me and it happened to a lot of people all around me - so clearly it IS possible, no?

 

if it was this simple as you say - you wouldn't have so many failed relationships and marriages where people did EVERYTHING they could, fixed their issues and still didn't get out of it together.

 

the truth is - once you lose the romantic interest & love for the person, once you fall out of love and that doesn't grow into this strong and mature romantic love? you probably won't ever get it back and even if you do - it's usually very short lived.

 

 

You seem awfully narrow minded and oddly defensive about this topic.

 

 

People in long distance relationships most certainly do feel like their long distance partner is meeting some or all of their emotional needs and even people in abusive relationships sometimes get caught up in thinking that the needs the abuser meets is worth putting up with the abuse. That's messed up but it's the truth.

 

 

People do not fall in love and fall out of love for no reason. Maybe some people can't articulate the whys and maybe some people simply are not self aware enough to figure out the whys but the these things don't happen without reason. I'm pretty certain that you nobody falls in love with someone who doesn't meet a single one of their needs and people have different needs so when you see someone in love with an abusive jerk or someone who lives a great distance away you can not say that they are not getting their needs met. Maybe the abuse victim has a need to feel needed or a need to fix people or a need to punish themselves. Maybe they are trying to work out past parental abuse. Nobody stays in a relationship where they are not getting something out of it.

[velvette]

incorrect.

 

 

in fact - they do.

 

you cannot control your emotions and love won't appear again just because you decided to work really hard on bringing it back. you can't choose who you'll fall in OR out of love with. sure, you can work on a relationship, communication, bonding and sex. that STILL doesn't mean you won't fall out of love with that person. one fact people don't want or can't accept - you can absolutely fall OUT of love for no reason. i mean, it happened to me and it happened to a lot of people all around me - so clearly it IS possible, no?

 

if it was this simple as you say - you wouldn't have so many failed relationships and marriages where people did EVERYTHING they could, fixed their issues and still didn't get out of it together.

 

the truth is - once you lose the romantic interest & love for the person, once you fall out of love and that doesn't grow into this strong and mature romantic love? you probably won't ever get it back and even if you do - it's usually very short lived.

 

if your life is ruled by your emotions, I can see how you would believe all that is true.

 

 

I don't agree with you. Emotions are always preceded by thought whether or not you realize it. Just because you or anyone else cannot articulate the reason does not mean there is not one.

 

 

You absolutely can choose who you fall in love with. Most people do not pursue love with every person they are attracted to or feel chemistry with.

 

 

I also don't believe people fall out of love for no reason.

 

 

Whether or not people can revive love that is dead or dying because of not connecting with and meeting each others needs is solely a function of their desire to do so and the skills they bring to the table. I didn't say it was easy and lots cant succeed at it because they don't have the requisite communication skills. As well, good counselors who understand this process and can lead couples through it are rare.

[obtuseedge]

indeed - which is why you really can't say that the only reason the OP fell out of love is resentment and if he fixes it, he will fall right back in love.

 

love really isn't all that complicated but folks are always trying to make a science out of it.

 

OP - what's going on now anyway? you're still NC with the xAP? how is your relationship with your W, what is the situation at home?

 

will you do MC together?

 

Yes, I am still NC with xAP.

 

At home, things are calm but there is sadness and tension.

 

We try to spend time every day to communicate our feelings. I had suggested this, and we share stories with each other every night to try to reconnect. We also sometimes have dinners with her friends. Bottom line is, we try to spend more time talking to each other, communicating how we are feeling right now, and recalling past memories.

[obtuseedge]

29 pages and you are STILL talking primarily about your AP.

 

What are you doing for your WIFE?

 

I respond to people who bring her up.

 

As for my wife, we spend time communicating honestly every day, talk about our feelings, experiences together, try to share things with one another.

[obtuseedge]

Fact is. This morning I spent time alone and thought of my wife, all the things she's done for me and sacrificed for me through the years, and how I've repaid her in betraying her and I cried, a lot.

 

I also know that I won't ever feel totally fulfilled in our marriage no matter what we do, not because of how much effort she puts in, but because of who we are as people. It made me incredibly sad.

[Rainbowlove]

Well, there is no definitive plan yet. But I hope I can gain some clarity within the next 2-3 months.

 

2-3 is completely unrealistic.

 

If you are in your marriage and committed to making it work, you work at it without a set time frame in mind.

 

For now, you take each day as they come and deal with that day only. You truly cannot be thinking you'll have clarity in 2/3 months.

 

News flash, you blew up your life. You think you can put a stick of dynamite in your life, light the match, watch it explode and expect yours and your wife's charred remains to be healed enough in 2/3 months to know how you'll feel? You'll see things better?

 

You are in worse shape than I thought, Tuse.

 

Here's how I see it:

 

In your mind, you still see both women as options. Even though you said goodbye to XAP, you know she's still out there hurting and would probably take you back.

 

Your wife hasn't kicked your arse to the curb, so you are still allowed to think of XAP as plan B someday.

 

If your wife actually packed your Shyt in a box and threw you out of her life, I have no doubt you'd be one sorry Mo Fo and XAP would become the devil who ruined your life.

 

But your wife hasn't done that, sadly. I think it might be what you need to wake up.

 

Take it from me, I've been exactly where you are. Two years from now the XAP will be just a painful memory of where your life went wrong.

 

You have a chance to make things right with your wife, step up to the plate and get serious about your marriage or you'll lose her and I don't think you want that or you would be gone already.