3 months later and where I am at.

[Noirek]

I'm sorry but this poor-me attitude is just getting you nowhere. I visualize you laying on one of those Victorian fainting couches with the back of your hand over your eyes, proclaiming, "Woe is me, this is just who I am."

 

The fact is, you are NOT that person and your posts on other threads prove it. Those posts are well thought out, fair balanced, compassionate, and objective. But when you post on your own thread it's like Jekyll and Hyde. You are unrecognizable.

 

All you want to do is fall back on "this is who I am" as an excuse not to do anything different. I'll never understand that. It's not easy, but it's simple - go look on the OW forum and see what women SUCCESSFULLY have gone through in achieving NC. Look at the effort they have put in and these are women (and men) who appear to be much more emotionally invested in their AP than you claim to be. If you don't give a damn about this guy, then there really is no excuse for you not to Just. Do. It. Just don't contact him again! How hard could that possibly be if you don't care about him and you love your H? Why are you not at least trying? There is no reason you can't do this, except in YOUR head.

 

I honestly don't know if you just like the attention you get with this attitude, or what. Based on some of your replies I'm starting to get the impression that you enjoy bantering with people who are disturbed by the astonishing lack of remorse and respect for your husband that you are displaying.

 

Furthermore, believe it or not, you are putting not only yourself but your entire family, including your children, AT RISK by continuing this despite the BSs warnings of violence to you. You might 'think' she wouldn't do anything, but you can't possibly predict other people's behavior. This is her husband! I don't care if she's a WS or if she is as pure as the driven snow. You are infringing on her family and her spouse and she may very well crack one of these days and inflict some real violence on you or your family. And all because you were too apathetic to stop contacting your AP whom you say you don't care about! Lady, you need to wake up. If you don't think these violent things happen then read the news. She has given you multiple warnings; why are you not taking it seriously?

 

I just find this whole attitude insulting to the pain and effort that OW on the other board go through to achieve NC with ex-MM/MW who they LOVE. I find it insulting and demeaning to them and their efforts and their pain that you just sit around and make excuses why you can't do it, and don't even try.

 

That is just my opinion. I don't mean to come across as 'mean' to you; just to give my own personal input. I don't know if you intend this thread as more of a blog, although clearly you don't want advice. However, this is a forum where people give/receive relationship advice so I'm going to do that, despite the fact that it will likely fall on deaf ears. Maybe there is someone else out there in your situation who will wake up.

 

Thank you for your well thought out post. I am an emotionally driven person. I often have said and done things against my rational mind. That is where the pathetic view of me comes from. I guess I am just tired of fighting against myself on it and thought I'd try to wean myself instead. A few things.

 

If I didn't care about MM, this would be a non issue. We don't have to use extremes though. I have feelings for him but they are nothing compared to my husband and part of me wonders if they are more about what he represents than him actually. As a person he pales in comparison to my husband. He is not as handsome, not as smart, not as succesful, and not as decent. He is a classic "affair down" though when I first was involved with him I didn't realize it. The other thing is that I don't mind advice. I actually appreciate it and the time it takes and I do think on it. But I will call people out who get peeved because I don't appear to beheading it. And I will of course call the people out who make wild and untrue assumptions. There have been plenty of attacks on here against. Far more than actual advice. It doesn't bother me but neither do I have to stay silent about them on my own thread. Pi**y posts don't move me. Do they move you?

[LifeWasted]

We talk, we hangout, we have sex. We plan our future and live everyday. We have a couple hobbies we do together. He appreciates acts of service so I fond he enjoys the little things like making the bed and cleaning after myself. I'm a bit of a slob to his neat freakness so even though an unmade bed or pile of dirty dishes isn't a big deal to me, i know it is to him so I try to keep ontop of that. He was feeling financially strained so I got a new job that relieves thag burden, a lot. I am not naturally a physically affectionate person but I know he is so I have taught myself to be. I cook too. I do not want to be a princess who has her every need catered to her.

 

We do argue but I try to keep my emotions in check and apologize quickly.

 

Yeah but these are things that every wife, loyal and disloyal, should be doing anyway. What do you do that is extra?

 

What I am asking is, what do you do, above and beyond the everyday things that every decent wife does, to make your husband feel safe enough to reconcile with you?

[LifeWasted]

 

But sometimes, now every odd week or so, I reply to MM with a friendly email. I guess my husband just doesn't see this detox of mine as something he should end his marriage over. Do I agree with him? No. Am I grateful? Very much. And when I can finally be free of the dark me, I hope to never find myself in this place again. I will never deserve him. That was done the first time I had sex with MM. But hopefully I can give him some wonderful years if he is still here.

 

So what you are saying in a nutshell, is that you feel your husband should divorce you, but he has chosen not to, but you don't agree with that decision.

 

Interesting.

 

Do you think he is a fool for not divorcing you? Does that cause a diminishing of what little respect you already have for him?

 

Do you ask MM why he thinks your husband isn't doing what most husbands would do, namely ending the marriage?

Edited April 5, 2015 by LifeWasted

[Marchhare]

It appears that she either ignores or attacks male responses as was pointed out. Whereas female are graciously accepted.

Mazerati seems to think she is doing what she needs to do, and says she needs to quit beating herself. Hope points out same and she gets a thank you and the whole nine yards.

Interesting.

Personally I think her hubby is a wimp for putting up with her although in another post I thought differently. Well I can be wrong too.

 

LW pointed out some facts that she did answer. Scratching my head there.

 

I think she is enjoying a pity party. Plain and simple.

[Noirek]

How are you going to explain all this to your kids when they get older and find out that there father is a cuckold. That there mother has no value on marraige. That they can't trust a word that comes out of her mouth. And there father doesn't have a back bone. The best thing he could do for his kids right now is leave you and show them this kind of actions don't work. But I'm thinking he doesn't really care what you do because his getting his side action to.

 

First of all, i may not be faithful but there are things I value in marriage. So "no" value is not true. Second, i sincerely hope by the time my kids are older I am no longer in this place. Third, cuckold is a terribly sexist and one sided term. Fourth, I hope I can use the pain I put their dad through and myseld to help them not make the same choice I did when I first crossed the line with MM.

 

My husband cares. He just is excersizing patience and waiting to see if I get this sorted with no ultimatums or demands. And btw, my affair hardly amounts to much side action. I think my last email was as long as this paragraph.

[Noirek]

Yeah but these are things that every wife, loyal and disloyal, should be doing anyway. What do you do that is extra?

 

What I am asking is, what do you do, above and beyond the everyday things that every decent wife does, to make your husband feel safe enough to reconcile with you?

 

Not every spouse is though. I know lots of couples who bicker over everything. Or relationships where one person is all in and the other is the equivilent to a couch potato. You said you are switching gears but you really are after the same thing. NC with MM. There is nothing else to be done. My H doesn't want a yes, sir, wife. He likes being able to disagree and agree on things. He hated it when I went belly up.

 

The fact that I am always 100% honest probably has a lot to do with feeling safe. He doesn't have to guess or wonder. Because I tell every time I see him.

[Noirek]

This sounds so similar to what Giraff with the coke head OM would write.

 

Things between you and MM have apparently cooled down from the peak but you at one point saw this guy as something to rip your family apart for. I sensed that your husband was plan b for a short time. If MM would have pursued you that way, things could've turned out differently.

 

Husband was never, ever plan B. I never wanted out of my marriage. I think I already explained before. Not once have I wanted a divorce. What drew me to MM was chemistry and the emotional high offered by the illicit nature of cheating. I had that rather naive idea that I would never get caught and therefore no one would get hurt. I really never thought about the risk because I didn't think there were any. Not if I played it safe. I compartmentalized my double life but it went south really fast. I was no good at being a cheater. During my PA I was nowhere near a computer or even being self aware. I was ignoring my conscience and YOLO! It was and is horrible selfish of me and stupid. But that part didn't last long.

 

People on here believe what they want to believe. They believe that all affairs must be about finding someone new. But sometimes if is just about a side experience. Something that is temporary in your mind. MM was and never will be a replacement to my husband.

[Noirek]

It appears that she either ignores or attacks male responses as was pointed out. Whereas female are graciously accepted.

Mazerati seems to think she is doing what she needs to do, and says she needs to quit beating herself. Hope points out same and she gets a thank you and the whole nine yards.

Interesting.

Personally I think her hubby is a wimp for putting up with her although in another post I thought differently. Well I can be wrong too.

 

LW pointed out some facts that she did answer. Scratching my head there.

 

I think she is enjoying a pity party. Plain and simple.

 

Read what you want but this has nothing to do with male or female. I reply to people based on whether I feel the need to or not. Maybe the females have just been less sexist than the guys? I honestly don't even know the gender of all the posters. Only the ones who say or their name is obvious.

[DKT3]

So your telling us that you are currently involved in a LTA and your husband feels safe in the marriage?

 

Here is the thing then I'm done here. Stop saying you want this over, because you don't. Something about this dynamic you enjoy very much. If you wanted this over it would be over. Sadly, you do it because your husband won't do anything. You've been asked several times and continue to avoid it, are you trying to get your husband to throw you out? How do you want this to end?

[Noirek]

So what you are saying in a nutshell, is that you feel your husband should divorce you, but he has chosen not to, but you don't agree with that decision.

 

Interesting.

 

Do you think he is a fool for not divorcing you? Does that cause a diminishing of what little respect you already have for him?

 

Do you ask MM why he thinks your husband isn't doing what most husbands would do, namely ending the marriage?

 

I don't think he is a fool. I just think he has more faith in me than I do and far more patience. I fully respect him though others disagreed on this already. But that is down to the difference of the meaning of the word respect. This is about me being screwed up and not him. Even though I feel he would be better off divorcing me I am so glad he isn't.

 

I don't talk to MM about my husband in a personal way.

[Noirek]

So your telling us that you are currently involved in a LTA and your husband feels safe in the marriage?

 

Here is the thing then I'm done here. Stop saying you want this over, because you don't. Something about this dynamic you enjoy very much. If you wanted this over it would be over. Sadly, you do it because your husband won't do anything. You've been asked several times and continue to avoid it, are you trying to get your husband to throw you out? How do you want this to end?

 

I want it to end with me no longer wanting contact with MM or finding illicit sex a turn on. There are thousands of people in thousands of situations who don't want to be there but lack the strength to get out. It is easy for those not involved to look down and judge and say "just do it". Maybe they are a stronger personality? Maybe they really just have no idea what it is like? Doesn't really matter but from where I am standing classic NC did nothing but set up my husband for another disappointment.

[SoulStorm]

Not every spouse is though. I know lots of couples who bicker over everything. Or relationships where one person is all in and the other is the equivilent to a couch potato. You said you are switching gears but you really are after the same thing. NC with MM. There is nothing else to be done. My H doesn't want a yes, sir, wife. He likes being able to disagree and agree on things. He hated it when I went belly up.

 

The fact that I am always 100% honest probably has a lot to do with feeling safe. He doesn't have to guess or wonder. Because I tell every time I see him.

 

Ok...you tell him every time you see him, but not every time you contact him.

You have posted that a couple of times that you don't always tell him of every contact by email...that's not 100% honest

[Noirek]

I was going by your earlier post that at the time of the PA, you didn't see MM as inferior. That was the time I'm referring to.

 

Now it seems like you've made a lot of progress. I really am rooting for your marriage.

 

I really didn't know him so no. I never thought he was as good looking but "chemistry" isn't always about appearances. But thank you. I know this whole thing is crazy. I'm pretty crazy. But I am trying to take it one day at a time.

[Noirek]

Ok...you tell him every time you see him, but not every time you contact him.

You have posted that a couple of times that you don't always tell him of every contact by email...that's not 100% honest

 

He knows We are in contact. I'm not dishonest about it. When my husband asked the frequency I told him.

[Mazerati]

Look I don't care if Noirek responds or not, the point is her recovery. People vilify her for not being in the "norm" if the reconcile is moving forward so be it.

Her beating on herself is what I feel she should work on, she got caught up and made a poor choice that damaged her and her marriage ? once it was revealed, she has been an open book, evil? Hardly.

Her H knows and supports her. She is honest and communicates with him. He must love her and care for her a great deal. She is blessed.

He wants the woman he married back. He is helping her in his way.

It's not one sided, it is a joint recovery. But I think therapy would be prudent too.

OP didn't need me to pity her, and I don't. She made a choice and is living with the consequences as is her BH and family. THEY are doing what THEY believe works, and regardless what posters say, I still Believe in her and THEM.

 

So Marchhare, no need to worry yourself whether Noirek responds. It is her choice.

 

Maz

[SoulStorm]

I want it to end with me no longer wanting contact with MM or finding illicit sex a turn on. There are thousands of people in thousands of situations who don't want to be there but lack the strength to get out. It is easy for those not involved to look down and judge and say "just do it". Maybe they are a stronger personality? Maybe they really just have no idea what it is like? Doesn't really matter but from where I am standing classic NC did nothing but set up my husband for another disappointment.

I think your husband is still disappointed..he's just tolerating it. I hope his tolerance lasts long enough.

 

He could tell you tomorrow that he's had enough..

 

You talk about dark sides like you are the only person that has one. Every poster on this site, plus every human being has a dark side. The difference is what you do with it.

 

I could go out right now and shoot the first person I saw, then say my dark side did it...both me and my dark side are going to jail

[Noirek]

I think your husband is still disappointed..he's just tolerating it. I hope his tolerance lasts long enough.

 

He could tell you tomorrow that he's had enough..

 

You talk about dark sides like you are the only person that has one. Every poster on this site, plus every human being has a dark side. The difference is what you do with it.

 

I could go out right now and shoot the first person I saw, then say my dark side did it...both me and my dark side are going to jail

 

Nice extreme example but you are wrong. Not anyone can just go and shoot someone or cheat. I know it would take something pretty huge for me to pull the trigger on a gun and end another person's life. There are people who find the thought of infidelity so revolting they would never even be tempted.

 

I'm not the only person with conflicting desires. But not everyone has a dark side. At least not a strong one. Some people are naturally good. If anyone has worked with children they will know this is true.

Edited April 5, 2015 by Noirek

[SoulStorm]

Nice extreme example but you are wrong. Not anyone can just go and shoot someone or cheat. I know it would take something pretty huge for me to pull the trigger on a gun and end another person's life. There are people who find the thought of infidelity so revolting they would never even be tempted.

 

I'm not the only person with conflicting desires. But not everyone has a dark side. At least not a strong one. Some people are naturally good. If anyone has worked with children they will know this is true.

It was an extreme example, but it doesn't negate that everyone has a dark side to do wrong things. People just choose not to. There has to be a balance...no one is ALL good. Ask those people who are all good if they ever had bad thoughts or wanted to do something against their character.

 

Whether it be to lie, cheat or kill..I bet thoughts and even intentions came into play. They just may not have acted on it

[I_Give_Up67]

Noirek- I think that by continuing contact with the MM, you are engaging in a form of self-flagellation. I think on some level you are still punishing yourself for the PA.

 

It seems at times that you may want your BH to D you as even more punishment. I believe you when you say that you have no desire to be with the OM and that you love your BH.

 

But have you considered that your continued contact may be your way beating yourself up for the PA?

[sammy7111]

You are cuckold your husband look it up. He may not saying anything about it but that's what your doing. Ever time you answer that other guy that's what your doing.

[Noirek]

You are cuckold your husband look it up. He may not saying anything about it but that's what your doing. Ever time you answer that other guy that's what your doing.

 

Cuckholding is a sexist label applied to the husbands of cheating wives. It is dated and shouls no longer be used because it dates back to when men could cheat without sensorship but their wives better think twice. In modern language is just a way for mostly men to insult other men.

 

The actual use of the word was supposed to be about a woman having a man raise her affair child without his knowledge. There is no affair child. There cannot be an affair child because I am unable to have kids and there is no physical contact with MM. But, if I did get pregnant under a completely different set of circumstances that are entirely hypothetical I could never keep something like that a secret.

 

I realize in the fetish world and porn world it has morphed in meaning. But we do not accept sexist shaming terms. Specially of people, like my husband, who are not doing anything wrong.

[sammy7111]

Your right his not you are and you keep doing. And when you keep t seeing someone after you have been caught then you are cuckold him tell he stand up and say no more.

[LifesontheUp]

Life is full of choices.

 

I gave my xH the choice of stopping his affair or not. Amongst all the usual reasons he couldn't leave go of his crutch so I packed his bags and out the door he went. Within two weeks he was begging me to take him back home but I didn't want to.

 

What I didn't understand during all that turmoil was that my choice was I didn't want to be with him any longer.

 

His choice was to end his affair and work on his marriage. My choice was to divorce him.

 

We all have choices. You are just choosing to continue contact under the guise of being evil. Honestly to me that sounds pathetic and an excuse.

 

You are doing it because you enjoy it and its your choice.

 

Thing is by the time you choose to properly end it with your AP your husband may have made his choice to end it with you. And yeah I know you don't care

 

If you love your husband make the choice to end it with your AP before its too late. My xH regrets the choice he made to this day that ended his marriage. Don't be like my xH, do it now why he is still giving you the choice and chance.

[Rainbowlove]

I want it to end with me no longer wanting contact with MM or finding illicit sex a turn on. There are thousands of people in thousands of situations who don't want to be there but lack the strength to get out. It is easy for those not involved to look down and judge and say "just do it". Maybe they are a stronger personality? Maybe they really just have no idea what it is like? Doesn't really matter but from where I am standing classic NC did nothing but set up my husband for another disappointment.

 

Noriek,

 

I always enjoy reading your posts.

 

I didn't know your story, but I feel the advice you give to many is usually spot on and insightful.

 

What advice would you give to yourself if you read your own story?

 

Also, I don't think it's about stronger personalities. I truly believe it's a choice to end toxic relationships because you want better for yourself and your family. It's a choice.

 

You either choose a healthy path or a destructive one.

 

It's no different than a drug addict choosing not to take drugs or an alcoholic not choosing the drink or the smoker not choosing the puff...

 

The affair or MM is your drug. He's your high.

 

I know the struggle to stay clean and healthy. I wake up everyday and choose to be the best me for myself and my family. The best me cannot afford any contact with my XAP. Not a hello, not a hug...nothing.

 

Make a different choice.

[Mr. Lucky]

There are thousands of people in thousands of situations who don't want to be there but lack the strength to get out. It is easy for those not involved to look down and judge and say "just do it". Maybe they are a stronger personality?

 

Many of those people in "situations who don't want to be there" turn to 12 Step programs for help and there's nothing about strength of personality there. As others have eloquently pointed out, it's about getting the help you need to take responsibility for the choices you make.

 

And like many of those struggling folks, you may need to bottom out with in the context of your current situation before you're able to change. When you abdicate control you have to accept the consequences...

 

Mr. Lucky