3 months later and where I am at.

[Noirek]

So why not make that change the one most IMPORTANT change? As long as you maintain contact, every 'change' you make is polluted.

 

This is so true. And as frustrating as it is for those reading I am much closer to this than I was. And I want to thank the people who have allowed me to vent, refrained from speculating or bashing me and encouraged me to continue forward. I guess I am hoping at this point IC will be the magic pill.

[Noirek]

You are so right DKT3. Its so sad to see. I know I was this person for a while with my xW. She would promise it would never happen again but she lied. It took a while for me to finally see the light and see her for who she really was. I hope OP's husband at some point in time wakes up and realizes she has no real intentions on making herself a better wife.

 

Getting counseling is a good start but not cutting off all Contact with the OM and realizing her own weakness and not starting to implement good boundaries to prevent further bad decisions is just inexcusable. Her husband at some point in time will wake up and when he does she wont be able to come back from this then. Her chances to save her marriage if that is what she really wanted will be gone for every.

 

Change has to start with You OP. If you really want to save your marriage your going to have to work harder or your going to loose what you really want.

 

Clay

 

Though I have never much appreciated being on the same room as people who are talking about me, what you say is one of my biggest fears. That I won't get my issues worked out in time. It is already too late in many ways. And i know that you as someone who does not believe in change or redemption, the best result would be my husband being free of me. And maybe if I cannot promise to be faithful after going back to therapy I will at least be able to "set him free".

[harrybrown]

If you can't make the change, when you do let him free, try to have a D with as little as fighting as possible. Do at least meet him halfway, and do not make him out as the bad guy for the D. And try to let him heal. It takes years. And let him be involved with the family and do not replace him with someone else.

 

It really hurts to be cheated on and move the new guy in as Dad as well.

 

Hope you find some answers.

[Noirek]

If you can't make the change, when you do let him free, try to have a D with as little as fighting as possible. Do at least meet him halfway, and do not make him out as the bad guy for the D. And try to let him heal. It takes years. And let him be involved with the family and do not replace him with someone else.

 

It really hurts to be cheated on and move the new guy in as Dad as well.

 

Hope you find some answers.

 

If i got to the place where I could be unselfish enough to D... I would not be taking a cent from him nor his children. And in case you haven't read any of my posts... I would never move MM in.

[understand50]

Noirek,

 

You will change when you decide to change. From reading your posts, you find it hard to go NOS with your AP, because you seem to be stuck, as you are stuck with your Husband. Look, you are worth, being loved, and cherished. From what you wrote, your husband must, as he as put up with you trough out this journey of yours. Make up your mind, and act. Things will be better, but at this point I think you need to do this for yourself. Deep down you know what is right, and what you want. You would not be here arguing with yourself, and posting and taking the abuse. IC should help, but it is the talk you have with in yourself that will make the difference in the end. Just tell yourself I am not going to talk to the AP today. I am not going to cheat - today. The tomorrows will follow.

 

I wish you luck, and hope you find what you need, and have some peace.

 

2583

[harrybrown]

If i got to the place where I could be unselfish enough to D... I would not be taking a cent from him nor his children. And in case you haven't read any of my posts... I would never move MM in.

 

Then help you H start to heal, which will take several years and stop all contact with the MM.

 

This is like an addiction and is an addiction. Until you can go cold turkey, you can't stop hurting your kids and your H.

 

Your A does take away your attention for your family.

 

So you someday will need to choose, your family or MM.

 

Maybe you can have your kids and MM, but the kids will suffer and pay.

[Clay]

I think it just sounds like your not ready. People here can push you and try to convince you why it is best for you but your not going to do anything until you are ready. I don't have a clue what your waiting for but what ever it is you should figure it out and move on. I am a BS and yes I think most cheaters should just go away but that doesn't mean that I don't think its possible for someone to overcome this and actually learn from there mistakes. I really don't think your that person. Its not that I don't think your not capable of being that person its just that you don't really care enough to do the work you need to.

 

You can sit here all you want and say stuff like its to late and stuff like that but if that was the truth your Husband would have been already gone. The longer you put this off the more chance you will make your fears come true. You say you can't be faithful well that is nothing but a cop out. You control what you do. If you really want to fix this marriage then get your head out of your xxx and start doing as these people are suggesting you do. They are investing there time in you to help you. What have you really got to loose by listening to them and trying these things. Clearly doing things your way hasn't really worked out all that well.

 

Your the only person stopping you from fixing your marriage.

 

Clay

[merrmeade]

I feel it's not fair to bash Noirek for her slow progress (because it's still progress) or her candor in admitting her MM addiction. What's the point? She's not hiding anything; she's not lying to anyone.

 

I have wondered if providing more explanation about the impact that childcare has on your life would help people here understand your other choices. You've alluded to the fact that you have (one? two?) special needs children, but haven't shared much about that part of your life. I wouldn't blame you for wanting to protect it or perhaps you don't want to sound as if you're using that as an excuse. I do feel, however, that its impact on you IS relevant for an outsider to understand how you have met needs that may have evolved in part as a result of your unique situation.

 

Whether you share the importance of this facet of your life with us on LS is, of course, your decision, but I have said from the beginning about your situation — and this aspect of being a parent of special needs children is just one more reason — that I am not qualified to advise you. I put all my hopes and prayers in the IC basket for you, my dear. I think your goodness will prevail.

 

P.S.

Noirek, I am so relieved you feel the urgency of finding a good therapist. Keep in mind that sometimes the first person you think you've settled on is still not right for you. It's just like finding the right situation for your children. If a health care provider is not right, it is not personal; you must find the right fit.

Edited May 20, 2015 by merrmeade
didn't finish the first time!

[drifter777]

I feel it's not fair to bash Noirek for her slow progress (because it's still progress) or her candor in admitting her MM addiction. What's the point? She's not hiding anything; she's not lying to anyone.

But that's the thing; there is no progress. Zero. There is only the appearance of some progress because she's patting herself on the back for telling her BH part of the story. And all her martyrdom on LS is nothing more than a false confession so she can feel better - temporarily. Let's see her go complete NC with AP and wanting to repair the damage she has done so badly that she is willing to do whatever it takes. But she doesn't do this - she just tells us about this "progress" like a junkie who hasn't done dope for 24 hours. Yeah, the junkie will tell us it's progress and then go shoot up the next day. But its progress, right?

 

OP: There is an old saying "The road to hell is paved with good intentions" and right now all you have is good intentions. They don't mean a thing IRL - just a way for you to justify your cruel addiction. If your BH would crack down on you (file for divorce) I wonder if it would make you want to reconcile or just give you the freedom you seem to want.

[66Charger]

Noirek will do things her way. The problem is that the tide will turn. Noirek you will wake up one day and say WTF was I thinking? Where will you be when that happens? In bed with a stranger or will you wake up, look over and still see your husband there and say thank God.

 

Do it you way lost flower. In your own words, battle your demons daily and make WISE choices.

 

Better hope you don't run out of time. Your husband controls the clock.

[66Charger]

Noirek it is obvious you don't respond to threats and 2x4s. I do see progress with you AP. A poster here who you obviously dislike, wife stayed in contact with her AP even after she knew was busted. They have reconciled, had a baby and he gave her another ring. Most of the time he says very beeautiful things about her. The missing part is that he divorced her. I dont see real progress with your husband. It is easy to say now, that divorce might be acceptable, but when you see a "work girl" on the back of his Harley, you may sing a different song. Not a threat but boy are you gambling!!!

 

You are placing your bets on the dark side when you still have a chance to peak at the winning hand.

 

Get a new mirror. Today

[Noirek]

Noirek,

 

You will change when you decide to change. From reading your posts, you find it hard to go NOS with your AP, because you seem to be stuck, as you are stuck with your Husband. Look, you are worth, being loved, and cherished. From what you wrote, your husband must, as he as put up with you trough out this journey of yours. Make up your mind, and act. Things will be better, but at this point I think you need to do this for yourself. Deep down you know what is right, and what you want. You would not be here arguing with yourself, and posting and taking the abuse. IC should help, but it is the talk you have with in yourself that will make the difference in the end. Just tell yourself I am not going to talk to the AP today. I am not going to cheat - today. The tomorrows will follow.

 

I wish you luck, and hope you find what you need, and have some peace.

 

2583

 

Disappointment in failing is hard for me. Right now a main reason for NC is because I don't want to fail again. Honestly, I probably won't tell my H (unless he asks) when I send the N/C letter. And I probably won't promise never cheat again. I'm not breaking my word a third time. But maybe, maybe one day I will be free of what ever drives me to cheating. I don't think those who only have passing thoughts can fully understand what it is like. Doing one thing knowing full well you will regret it, hating yourself for it but still doing it.

[Noirek]

I feel it's not fair to bash Noirek for her slow progress (because it's still progress) or her candor in admitting her MM addiction. What's the point? She's not hiding anything; she's not lying to anyone.

 

I have wondered if providing more explanation about the impact that childcare has on your life would help people here understand your other choices. You've alluded to the fact that you have (one? two?) special needs children, but haven't shared much about that part of your life. I wouldn't blame you for wanting to protect it or perhaps you don't want to sound as if you're using that as an excuse. I do feel, however, that its impact on you IS relevant for an outsider to understand how you have met needs that may have evolved in part as a result of your unique situation.

 

Whether you share the importance of this facet of your life with us on LS is, of course, your decision, but I have said from the beginning about your situation — and this aspect of being a parent of special needs children is just one more reason — that I am not qualified to advise you. I put all my hopes and prayers in the IC basket for you, my dear. I think your goodness will prevail.

 

P.S.

Noirek, I am so relieved you feel the urgency of finding a good therapist. Keep in mind that sometimes the first person you think you've settled on is still not right for you. It's just like finding the right situation for your children. If a health care provider is not right, it is not personal; you must find the right fit.

 

My children are not diagnosed special needs in the way most people think (adhd, autism, ect). My oldest was a failure to thrive case that set them back. A lot. My youngest is very high energy. But both children have developmental delays we see therapists for. I think I mentioned in my previous thread that my first round of cheating that I confessed to was during a very difficult time. However, my attraction towards illicit behaviour was always there.

 

Thank you for your kind words. Despite the naysayers I do feel I am making progress. I know they only have my husband's interests at heart and could care less about me or so some of the posts seem. And I get that. But my husband is not them and he is ever so patient with me through this.

[66Charger]

I follow your story because my GF is very much like you. Not the affair part, but the darkness in her soul for the things she did . These things were in her recent past( before me) but the damage is in her eyes. regret and fear. I see her as a beautiful flower but her mirror is broken. It is causing a deep rift and I am no longer sure as it is getting heavy. Perhaps I am hoping that you can see yourself differently soon before your husband (me) start agreeing with you (her). I still believe there is good in all of us and everyone is redeamable. However LS is wearing on me. Darkness everywhere very little good.

 

I will take my leave and wish you well and I mean it.

Edited May 21, 2015 by 66Charger

[merrmeade]

Disappointment in failing is hard for me. Right now a main reason for NC is because I don't want to fail again. Honestly, I probably won't tell my H (unless he asks) when I send the N/C letter. And I probably won't promise never cheat again. I'm not breaking my word a third time. But maybe, maybe one day I will be free of what ever drives me to cheating. I don't think those who only have passing thoughts can fully understand what it is like. Doing one thing knowing full well you will regret it, hating yourself for it but still doing it.

This kind of revelation from you, Noirek, has helped me a great deal in understanding my husband. His shame at having this darkness is his vulnerability. He has little objectivity about it, only volatility. At least, you are able to take it out a little, analyze it and share your observations with us without coming apart at the seams. Or maybe you do and that's why you only go in microsteps.

 

The biggest one that you helped me with was understanding how my husband could actually tell me that the way he got out of the affair he had when we were in our 20s, married about 7 yrs and just had a baby was to introduce her to me so she would see that he really had a wife and baby and would leave him alone. I simply could not understand how he could be so stupid as to tell me something so insulting. It implied that he was that weak, I was that unimportant, and/or she was that powerful. And yet, he obviously did not realize that it came across that way. I didn't do anything precisely because he was so clueless about how bad it was to say this to me. He was really and truly telling me, I finally realized, exactly how it was for him. To this day, he doesn't get it..

 

It seems from your posts that it's like there are two powerful forces pulling in opposite directions at the same time within you. You say that you want and enjoy sharing wholesome good times with your H, but you still cannot send the NC letter or, when MM directly approaches you, tell him it's over. Yet when you talk about MM there's no lightness or joy; it's dark and irresistible instead. You were its - his, I suppose - prisoner for some time. (To be fair you are slowly but surely working out of this spell in healthy, incremental ways to change this.) These descriptions helped me finally understand that I can't understand and, therefore, will give a small margin. Your description is the only thing that has ever helped me out of shaking head incredulity. That he also lived with demons, I can begrudgingly allow and that there was a struggle of some kind.

 

Still, what an idiot.

[merrmeade]

btw - surely it's obvious the "idiot" I'm talking about ^^^ is my husband

(well, maybe myself)

[Mazerati]

Noirek, as honest as you are, you know you are still in trouble, but your demeanor has changed. You don't trust yourself, yet you are more positive, and that is good. You are the victim of a predator who took advantage of you when you were weak. No, you shouldn't have - you should have communicated with your husband your disconnect, but you didn't - and so began the trouble you are in.

 

You are the mother of a special child. A lot of work. (I know.) And the child you love more than anything requires an enormous amount of attention. So through the years, your focus has been where? You give and give and give, then one day some stranger pays attention to you, and says all the right things. As you listen to this smooth-talking charlatan, you start to believe his words, and you begin to lose focus. He continues to charm, and you drink it up. Slowly methodically he weakens your marital resolve, and then you cheat.

 

You continue the infidelity until one day you suddenly realize what has happened. You realize how selfish and evil you were to do this to your husband, and worse your child. You think you have destroyed your family —or did you? You try to force your husband to let you go, so you maintain contact with the predator. Still your husband does not release you, he embraces you and says, "together". You disappear and come back. You are still having difficulties, but this time, I notice you did not beat yourself up.

On LS you've been vilified for your transgressions, and no one or very few try to help and support you. It's interesting to me that seem to have ignored positive male comments, and responded only to positive female, and I wonder why?

 

Noirek, you made a horrible choice, and tasted the fruit of freedom. You liked it and are scared you won't be able to say no again. Yes, that could happen. But now you have allies. Your husband, a few good posters, female, and non-predatory males who can empathize.

 

The future is uncertain to be sure, you are trying to remain faithful, but are worried you will fail. Without blowing smoke, I believe you will continue to struggle for some time. I also believe IC will help you resist the OM. I do admire you for putting your special child first before doing IC, and hope you can get in soon to help you. I do understand this dilemma.

Noirek, you are articulate, caring, and also very blunt. Which I admire very much. You are honest to a fault. IC may not save your marriage; it may dissolve it. What do you want?

[turnera]

It's been my experience that, barring mental illness, every single one of us has insecurities and yet tries to project an aura of self-love and confidence. If we all could just accept that about each other, things would be so much easier.

[Noirek]

But that's the thing; there is no progress. Zero. There is only the appearance of some progress because she's patting herself on the back for telling her BH part of the story. And all her martyrdom on LS is nothing more than a false confession so she can feel better - temporarily. Let's see her go complete NC with AP and wanting to repair the damage she has done so badly that she is willing to do whatever it takes. But she doesn't do this - she just tells us about this "progress" like a junkie who hasn't done dope for 24 hours. Yeah, the junkie will tell us it's progress and then go shoot up the next day. But its progress, right?

 

OP: There is an old saying "The road to hell is paved with good intentions" and right now all you have is good intentions. They don't mean a thing IRL - just a way for you to justify your cruel addiction. If your BH would crack down on you (file for divorce) I wonder if it would make you want to reconcile or just give you the freedom you seem to want.

 

I was in the middle of writting a reply to this when something urgent came up at work. I have not been back online since but I didn't want it to seem like I was ignoring you.

 

First thing I would like to mention is this notion that my H doesn't have the whole truth. He does, I told him everything I posted here. When I said I don't tell him everytime I reply to an email I didn't mean I hide it. He knows we communicate and regularly (it is far more sporadic now). What I don't do is say "hey, honey, sent MM an email today. But if he were to ask me to be thag specific... I would be that specific.

 

For you my progress is meaningless, but for me it gives me hope. I've gone a little more than 24 hours without a "fix". Any email I sent could be read by my H and the only issue he could find with them is the recipient.

[Noirek]

Noirek it is obvious you don't respond to threats and 2x4s. I do see progress with you AP. A poster here who you obviously dislike, wife stayed in contact with her AP even after she knew was busted. They have reconciled, had a baby and he gave her another ring. Most of the time he says very beeautiful things about her. The missing part is that he divorced her. I dont see real progress with your husband. It is easy to say now, that divorce might be acceptable, but when you see a "work girl" on the back of his Harley, you may sing a different song. Not a threat but boy are you gambling!!!

 

You are placing your bets on the dark side when you still have a chance to peak at the winning hand.

 

Get a new mirror. Today

The poster you mentioned recently made a very scathing comment about his fWW. It was truly sad to see with a new baby and all. It does show that divorcing your spouse and keeping her around isn't the cure all to affairs either.

 

My husband has Yamaha.

[Noirek]

This kind of revelation from you, Noirek, has helped me a great deal in understanding my husband. His shame at having this darkness is his vulnerability. He has little objectivity about it, only volatility. At least, you are able to take it out a little, analyze it and share your observations with us without coming apart at the seams. Or maybe you do and that's why you only go in microsteps.

 

The biggest one that you helped me with was understanding how my husband could actually tell me that the way he got out of the affair he had when we were in our 20s, married about 7 yrs and just had a baby was to introduce her to me so she would see that he really had a wife and baby and would leave him alone. I simply could not understand how he could be so stupid as to tell me something so insulting. It implied that he was that weak, I was that unimportant, and/or she was that powerful. And yet, he obviously did not realize that it came across that way. I didn't do anything precisely because he was so clueless about how bad it was to say this to me. He was really and truly telling me, I finally realized, exactly how it was for him. To this day, he doesn't get it..

 

It seems from your posts that it's like there are two powerful forces pulling in opposite directions at the same time within you. You say that you want and enjoy sharing wholesome good times with your H, but you still cannot send the NC letter or, when MM directly approaches you, tell him it's over. Yet when you talk about MM there's no lightness or joy; it's dark and irresistible instead. You were its - his, I suppose - prisoner for some time. (To be fair you are slowly but surely working out of this spell in healthy, incremental ways to change this.) These descriptions helped me finally understand that I can't understand and, therefore, will give a small margin. Your description is the only thing that has ever helped me out of shaking head incredulity. That he also lived with demons, I can begrudgingly allow and that there was a struggle of some kind.

 

Still, what an idiot.

 

The weird thing is that while I am drawn to illicit behaviour still, I am no longer drawn to MM. But that doesn't mean someone knew won't come along. So I keep this connection because it is "safe". I know how twisted this sounds. I get that and that is why I had my emotional break about posting a while back. I hated that it is probably just my lack of attraction to MM that is ending this. Not me actually being a less twisted individual. But I try not to focus on that. Because I don't know for sure. I'm too muddled in it. But I do know I find MM an annoyance right now.

[Noirek]

Noirek, as honest as you are, you know you are still in trouble, but your demeanor has changed. You don't trust yourself, yet you are more positive, and that is good. You are the victim of a predator who took advantage of you when you were weak. No, you shouldn't have - you should have communicated with your husband your disconnect, but you didn't - and so began the trouble you are in.

 

You are the mother of a special child. A lot of work. (I know.) And the child you love more than anything requires an enormous amount of attention. So through the years, your focus has been where? You give and give and give, then one day some stranger pays attention to you, and says all the right things. As you listen to this smooth-talking charlatan, you start to believe his words, and you begin to lose focus. He continues to charm, and you drink it up. Slowly methodically he weakens your marital resolve, and then you cheat.

 

You continue the infidelity until one day you suddenly realize what has happened. You realize how selfish and evil you were to do this to your husband, and worse your child. You think you have destroyed your family —or did you? You try to force your husband to let you go, so you maintain contact with the predator. Still your husband does not release you, he embraces you and says, "together". You disappear and come back. You are still having difficulties, but this time, I notice you did not beat yourself up.

On LS you've been vilified for your transgressions, and no one or very few try to help and support you. It's interesting to me that seem to have ignored positive male comments, and responded only to positive female, and I wonder why?

 

Noirek, you made a horrible choice, and tasted the fruit of freedom. You liked it and are scared you won't be able to say no again. Yes, that could happen. But now you have allies. Your husband, a few good posters, female, and non-predatory males who can empathize.

 

The future is uncertain to be sure, you are trying to remain faithful, but are worried you will fail. Without blowing smoke, I believe you will continue to struggle for some time. I also believe IC will help you resist the OM. I do admire you for putting your special child first before doing IC, and hope you can get in soon to help you. I do understand this dilemma.

Noirek, you are articulate, caring, and also very blunt. Which I admire very much. You are honest to a fault. IC may not save your marriage; it may dissolve it. What do you want?

 

I have spoiradic posting time. I didn't even realize you were male until recently. If I find there is nothing to discuss in a post, or I disagree, then I reply. Otherwise I just like the post. I try to reply to everyone so I am not sure how people are getting gender has anything to do with this. Generally speaking I get on with males and females equally.

 

As I have opened up, MM is easy now for me to resist. I just worry what will happen next time someone is interested and I am attracked back. I hope I will shut it down. I fear I won't. I work in a very male dominated workforce at my new job. I would say I should find an all female work enviroment but I'd probably end up bi;)

 

As an aside my oldest is not a burden at all. The first years were anxious but they are all well now, just a year or so behind. My second is far more work. But neither of my children contribute to this. Or my husband. Just my own demons.

[66Charger]

My husband rides a Yamaha.

 

I should have expected that reply. I know why I read LS. I know I look for heroines. Lovins, MsAdams, LadyJanes. I understand that every recon may have a stumble, hence the hated posters fWW post. But it still is a success story even if imperfect. Tthe one thing that these stories have is that the WS values the husband/ marriage much higher than her dark. This is not the case here. My words here are ,meaningless.

 

I am reading the wrong story.

[Hope Shimmers]

My husband rides a Yamaha.

 

I should have expected that reply. I know why I read LS. I know I look for heroines. Lovins, MsAdams, LadyJanes. I understand that every recon may have a stumble, hence the hated posters fWW post. But it still is a success story even if imperfect. Tthe one thing that these stories have is that the WS values the husband/ marriage much higher than her dark. This is not the case here. My words here are ,meaningless.

 

I am reading the wrong story.

 

I could add a few crucial details that you are missing and I bet you would change your tune about the 'success' story. But I'll shut up.

[66Charger]

Dang, people always want to put clouds on others sunshine. Success is not always about the present. Sometimes it is about a honest effort. Maybe it was all lies. No second chances ever. Maybe Noirek is right and darkness is just too strong. Either way, Just Keep it to yourself hope. I will try to figure out how to delete my post from this thread. Nothing but negative reposnses. Regardless, I hope to return in a couple months and hear better news about this lost flower. For now, its a beautiful day at the beach.

 

Peace Noirek. Don't fight so much.