Why can't anyone admit that most people are picky these days?

[MissBee]

It seems things are different out in the real world than what people actually say. It just seems like as a man you need to be good looking, have a good job, have a lot of confidence & not be shy, good amount of dating experience at a certain age, as well as qualities that don't hurt such as being tall.

 

For guys they want the most attractive women even if their not attractive themselves & than they stay alone because their standards are way too high. I get no one wants to be with someone they don't find attractive, but realistically speaking if you're average or deemed as unattractive by most people than in all probability you're not getting an attractive partner. Why can't people just flat out admit that the world is extremely shallow & that most people want what they want even if it's not realistic to happen?

 

 

Then what? After people admit this alleged fact then what happens?

 

It seems what is one person's "real world" is another's selective observation.

 

I have said and will always say and have observed everyday that there are lots of people dating married and hooking up and all of them are not just the alleged best looking, rich, tall, whatever other coveted quality. Average people, some even below average are dating and living their lives just fine so this crisis of shallowness, I don't see it.

 

Last week my rather homely looking friend got engaged to her homely looking boyfriend and they are both over the moon.

 

No matter what some may lament the actual reality is that people date, marry, fall in love every second of everyday all across the globe and there is NOT a world epidemic of shallowness where all men want one kind of woman and all women want one kind of man. I find this viewpoint ridiculous to be honest as when I walk around my neighborhood, my school, get on social media, go to the mall the supermarket, hang with friends I see ALL KINDS of people happily coupled and some are good looking others aren't some are tall, some are short, some have a great job some have no job, the list goes on. People have different desires, different values, different things they look for and what is one person's trash is another's treasure and that's how I see it played out in dating.

 

Figure out your own angle and stop trying to make this a world epidemic when it really is overblown.

Edited March 9, 2015 by MissBee

[NJ123]

I think you worry a lot more about what you have to offer a woman than what a woman has to offer you. Any relationship needs to be a two way street. While it's important to know your skill set and to have a good array of traits and abilities to offer a potential mate, a compatible woman should also have her own set of traits and abilities to offer you in return.

 

One thing that men don't do often enough is hold women accountable to what they bring to the table in the relationship. The rhetoric that we have been spoonfed is "what will men do to keep their women?". You'll notice that nowhere in that rhetoric do we hear "what will women do to keep their men?".

 

We need to get that message out, and make it plainly clear that we, too, have value, and that in order for us to enter into a relationship with them, they have to have something to offer us.

 

Yeah, I agree that of course they need to have something to offer for a man as well. But I just want to feel like the woman I'm with really would care about me no matter what type of job I have, or wouldn't care about some personal issues.

 

Even though it's not me personally in the situations I hear about, it is pretty disheartening to constantly hear & read about cheating stories. Especially where it just happens out of nowhere, where they think the relationship is perfectly fine. It definitely screwed my thinking up a bit about how that could possibly happen to me one day as well if I'm not smart & don't get with a nice woman.

[NJ123]

Then what? After people admit this alleged fact then what happens?

 

It seems what is one person's "real world" is another's selective observation.

 

I have said and will always say and have observed everyday that there are lots of people dating married and hooking up and all of them are not just the alleged best looking, rich, tall, whatever other coveted quality. Average people, some even below average are dating and living their lives just fine so this crisis of shallowness, I don't see it.

 

Last week my rather homely looking friend got engaged to her homely looking boyfriend and they are both over the moon.

 

No matter what some may lament the actual reality is that people date, marry, fall in love every second of everyday all across the globe and there is NOT a world epidemic of shallowness where all men want one kind of woman and all women want one kind of man. I find this viewpoint ridiculous to be honest as when I walk around my neighborhood, my school, get on social media, go to the mall the supermarket, hang with friends I see ALL KINDS of people happily coupled and some are good looking others aren't some are tall, some are short, some have a great job some have no job, the list goes on. People have different desires, different values, different things they look for and what is one person's trash is another's treasure and that's how I see it played out in dating.

 

Figure out your own angle and stop trying to make this a world epidemic when it really is overblown.

 

Good post, but how do you truly know these people that are together are truly happy. You don't know what goes on behind closed doors even if they appear happy out in public.

[thefooloftheyear]

Good post, but how do you truly know these people that are together are truly happy. You don't know what goes on behind closed doors even if they appear happy out in public.

 

 

Cmon, man, really???

 

Sure...no one knows....But if you took a random sampling of people, no matter what the conditions, its going to look like a Bell Curve...Some are goofy in love....most are just normal and get along....and at the other end are the miserable ones...Thats it...Thats life...

 

 

You cant look at life the way you are.....

 

TFY

[toolforgrowth]

Yeah, I agree that of course they need to have something to offer for a man as well. But I just want to feel like the woman I'm with really would care about me no matter what type of job I have, or wouldn't care about some personal issues.

 

Even though it's not me personally in the situations I hear about, it is pretty disheartening to constantly hear & read about cheating stories. Especially where it just happens out of nowhere, where they think the relationship is perfectly fine. It definitely screwed my thinking up a bit about how that could possibly happen to me one day as well if I'm not smart & don't get with a nice woman.

 

You're right, a woman shouldn't care what kind of job you have. But what women do want, and I don't see anything wrong with this, is a man with drive and ambition. A lot of "nice guys" are kind of lazy, and while they may be highly intelligent, they don't have any drive to better themselves or their position. It's one thing to have a job that may be menial, and entirely another to stay in that rut without trying to pull yourself out of it.

 

Yes, it's very disheartening with all the cheating stories. My recommendation would be to never get married. Sure, have a committed relationship, even with one woman for the rest of your life, but stay away from the farce that is modern marriage. It's become nothing but legal male bondage.

[MissBee]

Good post, but how do you truly know these people that are together are truly happy. You don't know what goes on behind closed doors even if they appear happy out in public.

 

That goes for everyone.

 

The question isn't about assessing their true happiness but dismissing the idea that all people are shallow and everyone only looks to date folks with the coveted qualities you have listed.

 

You cannot prove that everyone with those coveted qualities are happy neither can I but what I can prove is that the world is spinning, babies are being made, weddings are happening, I have people telling me how in love they are, I've been in love too, and those engaged in the world of romance are not just beautiful men and women who fit one particular standard but they come in all shapes, sizes and income brackets and there is no epidemic or trend I'm seeing where all of this has come to a halt and the only people dating, marrying or declaring happiness are good looking, tall, beautiful, financially well off people.

 

Just like I can't know people's innermost thoughts, neither can you so why assume you can and assume people are lying because they don't see things as you do? Likewise, don't assume that people are that one dimensional.

[NJ123]

You're right, a woman shouldn't care what kind of job you have. But what women do want, and I don't see anything wrong with this, is a man with drive and ambition. A lot of "nice guys" are kind of lazy, and while they may be highly intelligent, they don't have any drive to better themselves or their position. It's one thing to have a job that may be menial, and entirely another to stay in that rut without trying to pull yourself out of it.

 

Yes, it's very disheartening with all the cheating stories. My recommendation would be to never get married. Sure, have a committed relationship, even with one woman for the rest of your life, but stay away from the farce that is modern marriage. It's become nothing but legal male bondage.

 

But what if the woman mentions wanting to get married & have kids eventually. Than what do you do in that situation? Are there really a lot of women out there that are fine with not getting married? I honestly don't know if I'd want to be married or have kids.

[NJ123]

Cmon, man, really???

 

Sure...no one knows....But if you took a random sampling of people, no matter what the conditions, its going to look like a Bell Curve...Some are goofy in love....most are just normal and get along....and at the other end are the miserable ones...Thats it...Thats life...

 

 

You cant look at life the way you are.....

 

TFY

 

Yeah, I suppose that's true. But what's exactly the difference between goofy in love & normal & get along?

[thefooloftheyear]

Yeah, I suppose that's true. But what's exactly the difference between goofy in love & normal & get along?

 

About 6 months to a year of time...

 

 

TFY

[toolforgrowth]

But what if the woman mentions wanting to get married & have kids eventually. Than what do you do in that situation? Are there really a lot of women out there that are fine with not getting married? I honestly don't know if I'd want to be married or have kids.

 

Tell her the truth. Then it's up to her to decide if she wants to continue the relationship. But be prepared for her to end it, and learn how to be okay with that outcome.

 

You have value. You are under no obligation to agree to something that you're not sure you're okay with just to make a woman happy. You said that you want her to be okay with the job you have; I agree. I think you can go a step further and say that you want a woman that will be okay with being with you, either married or unmarried. THAT'S how you'll know that she wants you for you, and not just for your money and security.

 

My GF has no desire to get married, either. We are committed to each other and love each other very much. But neither of us ever want to get married; she's never been, and I've been once. So yes, there are women out there that want that. Truthfully, I think you're more likely to find that in women beyond their 20s (I have no idea how old you are, btw), but my GF is 29 and has always thought that, so...there you go. Take my observation with a big grain of salt.

 

If a woman says that she can't continue the relationship because she definitely wants marriage and kids, respect that choice and walk away. Short term temporary hurt will save you so much grief down the road. Trust me on this.

[NJ123]

That goes for everyone.

 

The question isn't about assessing their true happiness but dismissing the idea that all people are shallow and everyone only looks to date folks with the coveted qualities you have listed.

 

You cannot prove that everyone with those coveted qualities are happy neither can I but what I can prove is that the world is spinning, babies are being made, weddings are happening, I have people telling me how in love they are, I've been in love too, and those engaged in the world of romance are not just beautiful men and women who fit one particular standard but they come in all shapes, sizes and income brackets and there is no epidemic or trend I'm seeing where all of this has come to a halt and the only people dating, marrying or declaring happiness are good looking, tall, beautiful, financially well off people.

 

Just like I can't know people's innermost thoughts, neither can you so why assume you can and assume people are lying because they don't see things as you do? Likewise, don't assume that people are that one dimensional.

 

Yeah, I guess that's accurate to say. It just seems like people judge others for a lot of different things though. There's a lot of people getting married, and in relationships, but there's a lot of people that are all alone as well. Not sure why that is if things aren't as bad I think they are.

[NJ123]

Tell her the truth. Then it's up to her to decide if she wants to continue the relationship. But be prepared for her to end it, and learn how to be okay with that outcome.

 

You have value. You are under no obligation to agree to something that you're not sure you're okay with just to make a woman happy. You said that you want her to be okay with the job you have; I agree. I think you can go a step further and say that you want a woman that will be okay with being with you, either married or unmarried. THAT'S how you'll know that she wants you for you, and not just for your money and security.

 

My GF has no desire to get married, either. We are committed to each other and love each other very much. But neither of us ever want to get married; she's never been, and I've been once. So yes, there are women out there that want that. Truthfully, I think you're more likely to find that in women beyond their 20s (I have no idea how old you are, btw), but my GF is 29 and has always thought that, so...there you go. Take my observation with a big grain of salt.

 

If a woman says that she can't continue the relationship because she definitely wants marriage and kids, respect that choice and walk away. Short term temporary hurt will save you so much grief down the road. Trust me on this.

 

But what if we get along extremely well though & enjoy doing a lot of the same things. It would be awful to just let her go due to her wanting Marriage & me being a bit hesitant on it. I guess I just have to get lucky & find someone with the same mindset where she's not sure about marriage or kids either.

[toolforgrowth]

But what if we get along extremely well though & enjoy doing a lot of the same things. It would be awful to just let her go due to her wanting Marriage & me being a bit hesitant on it. I guess I just have to get lucky & find someone with the same mindset where she's not sure about marriage or kids either.

 

If you get along extremely well, then I'm sure some compromise could be reached. But that would be between the two of you to work out.

 

But I will repeat my last statement; modern marriage is nothing but legal male bondage. Is there any woman worth half your money,and half your assets, for either 1) as long as your children are in school (child support), or 2) until either of you die (alimony)? Is any woman worth that high of a price?

 

Let me put it to you this way. What if instead of negotiating the terms of the marriage during divorce while you're trying to end the marriage, you had to agree to the terms before you married? And this was an excerpt from that contract:

 

Should the marriage be dissolved at any time, regardless of any reason(s) or intent behind said dissolution and actions on the part of either party, NJ123 agrees to forfeit 50% of all present and future earnings, 50% of all assets that are currently, or acquired later, in his possession, in addition to an additional monthly stipend for support of marital children, to Wife. Such penalties only apply to NJ123.

 

Would you voluntarily agree to sign it?

[NJ123]

If you get along extremely well, then I'm sure some compromise could be reached. But that would be between the two of you to work out.

 

But I will repeat my last statement; modern marriage is nothing but legal male bondage. Is there any woman worth half your money,and half your assets, for either 1) as long as your children are in school (child support), or 2) until either of you die (alimony)? Is any woman worth that high of a price?

 

Let me put it to you this way. What if instead of negotiating the terms of the marriage during divorce while you're trying to end the marriage, you had to agree to the terms before you married? And this was an excerpt from that contract:

 

Should the marriage be dissolved at any time, regardless of any reason(s) or intent behind said dissolution and actions on the part of either party, NJ123 agrees to forfeit 50% of all present and future earnings, 50% of all assets that are currently, or acquired later, in his possession, in addition to an additional monthly stipend for support of marital children, to Wife. Such penalties only apply to NJ123.

 

Would you voluntarily agree to sign it?

 

What about a prenup though? Do they ever hold up in court?

[toolforgrowth]

What about a prenup though? Do they ever hold up in court?

 

Hardly ever. They're routinely thrown out and the judge does what they want anyway. They're not worth the paper they're written on.

[NJ123]

Hardly ever. They're routinely thrown out and the judge does what they want anyway. They're not worth the paper they're written on.

 

But why? I'm confused what the point of the prenup is if they get thrown out. How do they get away with being able to throw it out? Doesn't the wife have to sign off on it herself in terms of agreeing to it.

[toolforgrowth]

But why? I'm confused what the point of the prenup is if they get thrown out. How do they get away with being able to throw it out? Doesn't the wife have to sign off on it herself in terms of agreeing to it.

 

The judge can compare the terms of the prenup to what the parties would otherwise get without it. If the terms are deemed "unfair", then the judge can throw it out.

 

But don't take my word for it. Take the word of a guy who posted about it on Huffington Post, one of the biggest feminist news sites in existence:

 

When a Prenup Gets Thrown Out | Stann Givens

[craw]

I find women are under more pressure to be that "ideal" woman.

 

Have a master's, have a career, be good looking, be able to take care of the household, potentially be a mother too.

 

It's pretty insane.

[NJ123]

The judge can compare the terms of the prenup to what the parties would otherwise get without it. If the terms are deemed "unfair", then the judge can throw it out.

 

But don't take my word for it. Take the word of a guy who posted about it on Huffington Post, one of the biggest feminist news sites in existence:

 

When a Prenup Gets Thrown Out*|*Stann Givens

 

That's so screwed up. The courts love to screw the men over it seems. Men don't have much to gain from marriage at all it seems except for some official title name to their relationship.

[NJ123]

I find women are under more pressure to be that "ideal" woman.

 

Have a master's, have a career, be good looking, be able to take care of the household, potentially be a mother too.

 

It's pretty insane.

 

Not true entirely. Men don't care about what a woman does for a living as much as a woman does for a man. But yes, attractiveness is the main thing a lot of men look for in a woman.

Edited March 10, 2015 by NJ123

[toolforgrowth]

I find women are under more pressure to be that "ideal" woman.

 

Have a master's, have a career, be good looking, be able to take care of the household, potentially be a mother too.

 

It's pretty insane.

 

Both sides face difficulties. The issue is that men are ridiculed for observing the difficulties they encounter, whereas women are simply viewed as being victims of the Patriarchy.

 

Marriage laws have changed so much that women have literally priced themselves out of the market. They simply cost too much. Marriage is nothing more than indentured servitude for men now.

[NJ123]

Both sides face difficulties. The issue is that men are ridiculed for observing the difficulties they encounter, whereas women are simply viewed as being victims of the Patriarchy.

 

Marriage laws have changed so much that women have literally priced themselves out of the market. They simply cost too much. Marriage is nothing more than indentured servitude for men now.

 

Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married | CNS News

 

Here's an article I seen on another forum. Men are turning away from marriage completely. Can't say I blame them since they get nothing out of it.

[toolforgrowth]

Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married | CNS News

 

Here's an article I seen on another forum. Men are turning away from marriage completely. Can't say I blame them since they get nothing out of it.

 

That's it exactly! Marriage has no rewards for men, and only risks.

 

This is why I'm really trying to get you to change your mindset about women. They go into every relationship knowing that if they marry you, they own you...almost literally. Getting out will be so painful and so destructive for you that they can do almost anything and you'll put up with it, because the alternative is basically a life without a livelihood.

 

I certainly do not believe that all women do this, and that there is a plethora of great women out there for you to choose from. But having a strong sense of self worth, and knowing that you have value and that your intentions are good, and that you are worthy of respect, enables you to treat yourself with respect. The added side effect is that you will demand that same respect from women. It starts to balance your thinking from "I'm afraid I can't do anything to prove my worth to any woman" to "I know I have worth and value based on my good deeds, can a woman prove to me that is the same?"

 

And walk away if they can't.

[autumnnight]

Not true entirely. Men don't care about what a woman does for a living as much as a woman does for a man. But yes, attractiveness is the main thing a lot of men look for in a woman.

 

But see, lots of WOMEN feel this way. Are you saying our perception is wrong and what we experience isn't real? Surely not, since you wouldn't want someonevto do that to you.

[NJ123]

That's it exactly! Marriage has no rewards for men, and only risks.

 

This is why I'm really trying to get you to change your mindset about women. They go into every relationship knowing that if they marry you, they own you...almost literally. Getting out will be so painful and so destructive for you that they can do almost anything and you'll put up with it, because the alternative is basically a life without a livelihood.

 

I certainly do not believe that all women do this, and that there is a plethora of great women out there for you to choose from. But having a strong sense of self worth, and knowing that you have value and that your intentions are good, and that you are worthy of respect, enables you to treat yourself with respect. The added side effect is that you will demand that same respect from women. It starts to balance your thinking from "I'm afraid I can't do anything to prove my worth to any woman" to "I know I have worth and value based on my good deeds, can a woman prove to me that is the same?"

 

And walk away if they can't.

 

Yeah, my friend I was talking to last night said something similar. He has no interest in marriage due to the same thing you're stating. If I ever did get married it wouldn't be until I'm in my 40s at the very least. But I think I'd hope the woman isn't that interested in it either or at least not until way later on if at all. Having kids I'm completely undecided on as well.