She Ruined My Life, and I Let Her

[autumnnight]

fellini, stop being so logical. You are going to make people believe that you do not believe all people who have cheated always have been and always will be evil. We can't have that!

 

LW, that staircase project sounds amazing. There's a historic district near me with all sorts of historic homes, and every spring they have a tour of homes. Some of those staircases are amazing.

[Paterlany]

Infildelity gene?

 

Projection gone mad.

[writergal]

Infildelity gene?

 

Projection gone mad.

 

It's a scientific discovery that has been written about in scientific journals.

 

Promiscuity And Infidelity Could Be A Genetic Trait In Some Humans Medical News Today (just one of many articles about it).

 

Not a projection.

[Hope Shimmers]

It seems to me that you, fellini, and writergal are saying the same thing.

 

Also it seems that abcnews et al put their usual inappropriate spin on this. This was a survey-based study, hardly one that could establish causation of anything. Also, they didn't "discover" a gene. The dopamine receptor D4 polymorphism has been described for many years. It is the "risky behavior" gene that has been associated with drug abuse and drinking and impulsive/risky behaviors.

 

With a survey-based study you can't control for confounders or things that are correlated to each other but not the outcome. So in other words, it's very possible that people with the gene defect who cheated were also alcoholics and had more one-night stands because of it, and that's why there was a correlation. Proves exactly nothing.

[Hope Shimmers]

I just priced out and received the go-ahead to restore an 1875 cherry wood spiral staircase that has become unsafe due to neglect. The lady we are contracted with has been looking for a carpenter who had the skills to do this for twenty years and had been unable to find one.

 

Then I come along.

 

Hmmm... staircase sounds beautiful. And is the client?

[Hope Shimmers]

Since she started reading your posts Road, her lips only exist to eat chocolate and kiss your ass.

 

My mouthful of diet pepsi hit the laptop screen when I read that

 

Life, your exWGF screwed up when she let you get away!

[Paterlany]

Could be a discovery. May be a discovery.

 

So it may still be a bit early to blame it all on one's genes.

 

So not a scientific discovery? Like you said.

 

Sorry but it sounds like a excuse.

[writergal]

It seems to me that you, fellini, and writergal are saying the same thing.

 

Also it seems that abcnews et al put their usual inappropriate spin on this. This was a survey-based study, hardly one that could establish causation of anything. Also, they didn't "discover" a gene. The dopamine receptor D4 polymorphism has been described for many years. It is the "risky behavior" gene that has been associated with drug abuse and drinking and impulsive/risky behaviors.

 

With a survey-based study you can't control for confounders or things that are correlated to each other but not the outcome. So in other words, it's very possible that people with the gene defect who cheated were also alcoholics and had more one-night stands because of it, and that's why there was a correlation. Proves exactly nothing.

 

Except that I at least back up what I say, whereas fellini, autumn night and Paterlany take pot shots at me or twist my words to suit their own agenda.

 

To deny the validity of scientific studies (peer reviewed or not) and the impact that genetics have on a person's choices etc.,. doesn't seem reasonable to me at all. Why deny what science proves to be true? Your genes determine your choices. Period.

 

The report about it was published in the peer reviewed journal called Evolution and Human Behavior. It was a cross-sectional study. The researchers looked at how genetic factors influence infidelity, looking at the two genes oxytocin OXTR and vasopressin AVPR1A.

[writergal]

Could be a discovery. May be a discovery.

 

So it may still be a bit early to blame it all on one's genes.

 

So not a scientific discovery? Like you said.

 

Sorry but it sounds like a excuse.

 

It IS a discovery. There's a study I just posted the name of the journal the study is in. Hope Shimmers is wrong.

[writergal]

I'll just add that it is total nonsense to call a scientific discovery "just an excuse."

[Hope Shimmers]

Except that I at least back up what I say, whereas fellini, autumn night and Paterlany take pot shots at me or twist my words to suit their own agenda.

 

To deny the validity of scientific studies (peer reviewed or not) and the impact that genetics have on a person's choices etc.,. doesn't seem reasonable to me at all. Why deny what science proves to be true? Your genes determine your choices. Period.

 

The report about it was published in the peer reviewed journal called Evolution and Human Behavior. It was a cross-sectional study. The researchers looked at how genetic factors influence infidelity, looking at the two genes oxytocin OXTR and vasopressin AVPR1A.

 

Writergal, survey-based studies are peer reviewed, but it doesn't make them causative. I don't want to go further in this direction on this thread (or debate it at all). My post was giving my opinion in exactly the same way you and fellini did. If you disagree, great, but please just ignore it then. It wasn't meant to start a debate, just add to the issue. Enough said.

[LifeWasted]

Hmmm... staircase sounds beautiful. And is the client?

 

 

 

 

An elderly widow who used to be a schoolteacher. The house was her parents'.

[LifeWasted]

I'll just add that it is total nonsense to call a scientific discovery "just an excuse."

 

Well I think it is interesting nonetheless.

[fellini]

If you are going to deny the existence of how genes influence our behavior, then you will have to present a really strong (non religious) argument to me.

 

 

Sure, I'll bite.

 

A young fellow named Rafael was born into the world and handed the same set of genes as everyone else. Furthermore, he was not given any extra genes or super genes with which to work.

 

Young Rafael, or rafa as his friends called hI'm grew up like everyone else being right handed. Not ambidextrous and certainly not "zurdo" and made to be right handed from over zealous nuns and priests who believed being left handed was the devils work. No, young Rafa was right handed.

 

At some point Rafa made the non genetically inclined decision to play tennis.

 

His uncle decided that if he was to become good, really good at it, he should play left handed. Against his genetic code. And so on they went.

 

In spite of being born right handed Rafa Nadal joined the ranks of being probably the greatest tennis player of all time. Not only better than all right handed, but surpassing left handed as well, and in all types of courts.

 

Now in particular, he excels at clay (I can't find a gene for clay court players who play wrong handed in google) and has won 5 connsecutive French opens, something no human has ever done. He has the world recoding for unbeaten connsecutive sets on clay (38).

 

He did this by refusing to pay attention to his genetic makeup.

[elaine567]

Sure, I'll bite.

 

A young fellow named Rafael was born into the world and handed the same set of genes as everyone else. Furthermore, he was not given any extra genes or super genes with which to work.

 

 

That is nonsense, Rafa Nadal was NOT given the same set of genes as everyone else.

[Lion Heart]

Hi Life,

 

HAPPY EASTER! It's Easter Sunday in the land of Oz.

And you have risen again too.

 

A resurrection of you, I'm in awe.

 

I want my children to have a character like you.

Hard working.

Dedicated to his craft.

Loving and devoted.

Generous.

Tough.

And when life gives them a blow and knocks them down.

I want them to resurrect themselves and their lives.

Just like you.

And you have overcome one of the worst things that can happen to a person. Betrayal because you loved someone.

 

You may not be famous but you are a model for me and my children.

I thank you for being here, even though I'm sorry you're here.

 

I hope you get a HUGE Easter Egg or at best, get to have a few drinks with your mates.

 

Lion Heart.

[Lion Heart]

I can see a debate roaring on Life's thread.

 

If I understand it, the debate is based on strict views from a specific perspective. Isn't knowledge wonderful and isn't then adding our personal experience then leading to our own conclusions?

 

Conclusions I would be happy to alter if enough evidence was presented.

 

Nature = choices

Nurture = choices

CHOICES = CHOICES

 

The debate could go on forever, as it could here too. This debate has raged for decades or centuries in my field of study and work. NOW most in my profession UNDERSTAND the debate from ALL angles but UNLESS we make a definitive STAND and work with ALL WE'VE GOT for the people we serve,

we (ESPECIALLY I) will not let a person in my work depend on the excuses of their inherited personalities from family, nor the parenting they had because to use these reasons (excuses) means they are powerless to alter anything.

 

AND THEY ARE NOT POWERLESS. They are empowered through our work to understand and through the knowledge that they seek to CHOOSE their CHOICES.

 

ANYONE CAN MAKE GOOD CHOICES.

ANYONE CAN MAKE BAD CHOICES.

The choice is up to each individual.

 

My life and my work are evident of individuals' good choices even AGAINST the odds, defying familial patterns and statistics. I could give you myriad of case studies where my work with an individual has altered the direction their life was taking IF they listened to such statistics or fell into family patterns demonstrated in their daily lives.

 

As in my OWN life, I told, and tell THEM ALL, you've got a choice to make EVERY SINGLE time you reach a fork in the road. Are you gonna turn right? Or are you gonna turn left?

YOUR CHOICE. No one else's. Yours. You CAN SEE where left takes people.

 

And throughout the year but especially at Christmas THESE people who I met as children in THE MOST DYSFUNCTIONAL families you could ever imagine (and I see daily) contact me or come to my home for a BBQ (we even go camping with some).

I am SO PROUD of the choices THEY made over the past 2-3 decades since working with them.

 

All have families. All have stayed with the same partner to be good parents to their children. They are happy with their choices, with their partners and with their work. The fact they work at all defies statistics!

I'm not saying they don't battle with their inherent natures or the sticky webs of familial issues in their extended families but they saw that their choices can AND DO change their own outcomes.

 

They grew up in our work. They matured beyond their years because they had to. And the amazing thing is they OWN THE CHOICES they made, unlike many others.

 

Sure I ranted but what's the point of debate that confirms that people have "no control over their choices", when INDEED we know they do.

 

Lion Heart.

[road]

I live and breathe merely as an attempt to please you, road.

 

 

 

 

How did I miss this one?

 

 

Ladies, ladies stop this I am not available.

[writergal]

I can see a debate roaring on Life's thread.

 

If I understand it, the debate is based on strict views from a specific perspective. Isn't knowledge wonderful and isn't then adding our personal experience then leading to our own conclusions?

 

Conclusions I would be happy to alter if enough evidence was presented.

 

Nature = choices

Nurture = choices

CHOICES = CHOICES

 

ANYONE CAN MAKE GOOD CHOICES.

ANYONE CAN MAKE BAD CHOICES.

The choice is up to each individual.

 

 

Sure I ranted but what's the point of debate that confirms that people have "no control over their choices", when INDEED we know they do.

 

Lion Heart.

 

Debates are healthy for discussion. As David Price said, "honest discussions - even and perhaps especially on topics about which we disagree - can help us resist hypocrisy and arrogance."

 

Still, I believe what I do, and respect that you and others do disagree with me about what causes people to cheat. I say it's due to genetic predisposition, and you and some others disagree. Cognition has a genetic basis to it. You can't have cognition without genetic influence.

 

Even if you 'reprogram' someone's misbehaviors, they are likely to reoffend more than not. I spent time drumming in prisons and spoke to prisoners about their "choices" that got them in jail. Some admitted their environment played a huge factor (broken home, homeless, etc.) whereas others came from affluent backgrounds and still wound up in jail because as one guy told me, "I always find trouble wherever I go." So, like you I have had different life experiences that lead me to the conclusions that I make, which are different from yours.

 

I think people cheat because it's in their nature to cheat. And their human nature starts with their genetic makeup, and their genetic makeup can be positively or negatively influenced by their home environment, familial and social relationships and opportunities, etc.,. that shapes who a person becomes. Science shows that some people are born more promiscuous than others, and thus are more likely to cheat on their partner.

 

Of course cheating is still a CHOICE. But that CHOICE is influenced by other factors aside from the quality of their relationship. To ignore the basis for choice is to ignore the reality that choice is a cognitive action influenced by genetics. NCAAD states on its website, that people who choose to become drug or alcohol addicts is largely influenced by genetics. So, to dismiss cheating as not being largely influenced by genetics also when the science shows that to be true, seems like rug sweeping to me, to maintain some status quo that cheating is only a moral problem, and not tied to a genetic predisposition which science proves to be true.

 

All that aside, I think LifeWasted (LifeWiser) has shown himself to be resilient and able to maintain control over his life despite the trauma of being cheated on, especially when it just happened so recently. LW is proof that your life doesn't need to fall into pieces when something like this happens.

Edited April 5, 2015 by writergal

[autumnnight]

I was born to 2 alcoholics. I have never had a problem with alcohol. I hardly ever drink, and I have never been drunk. There is a genetic predisposition to alcohol too? Should I just give up, drown in a bottle, and join AA? My aunt and grandmother had breast cancer. Should I jusy go and have a double masectomy?

 

I do not doubt that we are influenced by genetic predisposition. Where you and I part is that I do not insist we are DOOMED by it.

 

I also do not deem myself superior based on what genes I believe someone else to have.

[writergal]

I was born to 2 alcoholics. I have never had a problem with alcohol. I hardly ever drink, and I have never been drunk. There is a genetic predisposition to alcohol too? Should I just give up, drown in a bottle, and join AA? My aunt and grandmother had breast cancer. Should I jusy go and have a double masectomy?

 

I do not doubt that we are influenced by genetic predisposition. Where you and I part is that I do not insist we are DOOMED by it.

 

I also do not deem myself superior based on what genes I believe someone else to have.

 

For me, it's the antagonistic, defensive tone that you use only with me in your posts here, that really bothers me. As though I owe it to you to agree with you, because if I don't, that makes me wrong and you right.

 

What you choose to do based on your family history with alcoholism and breast cancer is your own choice. If you choose to ignore the alcoholism and breast cancer in your family, and then become an alcoholic or suddenly develop breast cancer...it's because you didn't acknowledge the genetic predisposition in a way that prevents both from happening.

 

To say that you 'hardly ever drink' is what my alcoholic cousin says all the time and why I avoid him like the plague. That doesn't really excuse you from your family's history of alcoholism unless you attend AA meetings as a family member to understand the disease and avoid the triggers. I've seen it happen. But that's just my opinion. It's your life.

 

As far as your breast cancer family history, if you don't get tested for the BRCA gene, then you'll never know if you have it, until you develop breast cancer and then you'll know. I actually got tested for the type of cancer my dad died from because I wanted to know if I may get it. Turns out I won't. I also got tested for Diabetes and found out I have Type II, along with other health problems that I wouldn't have discovered had I not done the tests for them.

 

Back to cheating. If someone is raised by a parent who cheats, what are the chances their children will grow up to become sex addicts, be sexually promiscuous, and cheat on their relationship partners?

[autumnnight]

THat is actually an excellent question. I would assume that with genetics in play, someone who was raised by a couple with a good marriage who were faithful to each other would at least have some protection from cheating.

 

I am sorry that I come across as antagonistic. I will work on that. I have not been too good lately about not letting my own pain dictate to many of my posts.

 

Oh, and when I say I hardly ever drink, I mean a glass of wine with dinner every few months, if that. And that is 1 glass.

 

So I don't know much about your cousin, but the opinion you have obviously formed of my drinking is in error.

 

OK LW, I'm sorry. I'll check in to hear about your staircase, but I think I've done enough harm to your thread.

[dreamingoftigers]

I was born to 2 alcoholics. I have never had a problem with alcohol. I hardly ever drink, and I have never been drunk. There is a genetic predisposition to alcohol too? Should I just give up, drown in a bottle, and join AA? My aunt and grandmother had breast cancer. Should I jusy go and have a double masectomy?

 

I do not doubt that we are influenced by genetic predisposition. Where you and I part is that I do not insist we are DOOMED by it.

 

I also do not deem myself superior based on what genes I believe someone else to have.

 

Do you have issues with sugar though?

 

Just curious because I do and apparently they fall on the same gene.

 

Alcoholism is on both sides of my family, the only two that aren't are my grandmother who is insanely healthy and my mother, who has a massive sugar problem.

 

All nine of the children on my Dad's side are alcoholics. Raised by alcoholics.

And I married one. Cripes!

[writergal]

THat is actually an excellent question. I would assume that with genetics in play, someone who was raised by a couple with a good marriage who were faithful to each other would at least have some protection from cheating.

 

I am sorry that I come across as antagonistic. I will work on that. I have not been too good lately about not letting my own pain dictate to many of my posts.

 

Oh, and when I say I hardly ever drink, I mean a glass of wine with dinner every few months, if that. And that is 1 glass.

 

So I don't know much about your cousin, but the opinion you have obviously formed of my drinking is in error.

 

OK LW, I'm sorry. I'll check in to hear about your staircase, but I think I've done enough harm to your thread.

 

 

Hey no worries autumnight. We're all human. I come across very opinionated (I know this about myself) a lot which gives people the wrong impression about me. So I'm a work in progress too. My goal is not to be haughty or trite or rigid with my viewpoints, even though sometimes I can be that way.

 

LW keep us updated on your progress. You have a lot of support here.

[LifeWasted]

My progress is to get really frickin drunk tonight.