Resentful about so many years of crappy sex

[autumnnight]

Maybe a more concise way to word this is men will often latch on a woman that he has very good sexual chemistry with over other women that are are nicer and he has more in common with because sexual chemistry is harder to obtain for a man than overall compatibility and common interests etc.

 

He'll opt for the hot chick that he has good sexual chemistry with because that is more scarce instead of the friendship factors which are more abundant.

 

I have seen this as well - opt for the hot train wreck with the big boobs over the really good woman. However, I have not seen it so often that I would proclaim it as the rule that almost all men follow.

[oldshirt]

Responses in bold below.

 

I do not like the idea that people use their wife or the few divorcees they have talked to to generalize an entire gender. MAYBE I could have gotten or could get sex anywhere I wanted. BUT unlike an alley cat (or apparently a lot of men), I am not singularly motivated by the hormones that meet between my legs. In other words, just because I might be able to find tons of random faceless people to roll around with does NOT mean that is what I want or would ever want.

 

i never said you did. In fact you are kind of supporting my point in a way. Since you can be an alley cat if you want and that ability is always there, you choose instead to pursue other things.

 

 

When I married, I married a man I loved with all my heart, who I found very attractive, who I respected, and who, to be candid, I could not WAIT to finally get naked with. Oh my gosh when he put his hand on my back or leaned in for a kiss I got dizzy.

 

I do believe that he loved me in his way. He felt comfortable with me. I would be a good help and partner for him in his chosen profession. I was a good nice girl. And because I was a 20 something year old religious virgin and because we never actually talked about sex, he probably thought it was not on my radar like it wasn't on his. So in my case HE was the one who married the safe bet.

 

 

you may not have had sex or expressly discussed it, but if your chemistry was as you described, it was still apparent.

 

 

Shall I now extrapolate that all men marry a woman they think will be safe and not ask anything of them because men are selfish and lazy?

 

i don't even know what you are talking about or where you are coming up with that.

 

 

We have a man whose wife was crappy and a man who has sworn off women and a couple of men who became jaded by the time puberty wore off. Not sure their experiences are a representative sampling of all women.

 

 

People often behave and react within certain patterns and trends, even if we don't want it to be that way. Just because we don't like it, doesn't mean that it isn't true. The problem is millions of people are being brought up today being told that behave behave in a manner that we all wished they do rather than what they really do.

 

Some of us old farts aren't "jaded" so much as we have just gotten to the point we have unhooked from the Matrix and tell it like it really is even if it has some elements that people don't really want to hear or don't want exposed.

 

[apeman101]

Biologically all woman & men have same instincts. This does not mean that all of them will act on their instincts. Every man in this world appreciates a beautiful woman unless he is gay. Its only woman who have dual instincts for a lover/provider. Women always trade up and want a man better than them. Any time the man doesnt meet her needs or she meets a better man, she will find an excuse to trade up. It is the survival of the fittest.

 

Men are content with a wife that meets his needs ( aka give him sex). They don't go around shopping (there are exceptions) for a new one. Men want the hottest woman as his wife and men stick to this women because they want to pass on their genes to their kids. A womans love is conditional upon his man living up to her expectations. Anytime he doesn't it all goes left field

[oldshirt]

I have seen this as well - opt for the hot train wreck with the big boobs over the really good woman. However, I have not seen it so often that I would proclaim it as the rule that almost all men follow.

 

That's a fair statement in that one can never use the term "all,"

However it is it is also a fair statement that men will prioritize sexual chemistry and sexual compatibility higher in spouse selection than women as a general trend.

 

Any one individual man may choose a more stable woman as a mate over the hotter train wreck that is a complete psycho but I can about guarantee you that any man that has multiple options for a spouse is going to marry the one that is the most sexually compatible woman that he can still bring home to Mom and still be seen with in public.

 

Somewhere out there may be some hottie he had the hots for more but he either couldn't bring himself to bring home to Mom or he couldn't keep out of other men's beds. But the one he married was the hottest that he could get past his mother and busy-body aunts.

[oldshirt]

Biologically all woman & men have same instincts. This does not mean that all of them will act on their instincts. Every man in this world appreciates a beautiful woman unless he is gay. Its only woman who have dual instincts for a lover/provider. Women always trade up and want a man better than them. Any time the man doesnt meet her needs or she meets a better man, she will find an excuse to trade up. It is the survival of the fittest.

 

Men are content with a wife that meets his needs ( aka give him sex). They don't go around shopping (there are exceptions) for a new one. Men want the hottest woman as his wife and men stick to this women because they want to pass on their genes to their kids. A womans love is conditional upon his man living up to her expectations. Anytime he doesn't it all goes left field

 

I'm going to tweak your wording a little bit. - men may not go looking for a "new" one in so much as they will take on 'additional' ones as they come available.

 

As a general rule, men really don't dump women or trade up per se, they just add new ones to the stable. A guy will add as many as he can, it's just in western society the first wife doesn't usually allow any more being added.

 

Women will trade up and dump the old if one clearly better comes along and will take her full time.

[SummerDreams]

But when she asked me to buy a beachfront place today - my immediate reaction was annoyance. I realized then that I feel resentful. I have decided to leave her. There is absolutely nothing she can do now to change anything because the past cannot be changed.

 

I have no questions. I just wanted to rant a bit. Thanks.

 

This is the kind of people I'm so scared of; people who never express their anger, annoyance, etc and then they get angry with people who don't realize how these people feel. I can't help not asking, have you talked to your wife about this matter all these years? What happened? Why don't you give her the chance to say how she feels? Why do you think all the sex you used to have these years were only quickies? Is it cause she has a low drive? Is she in any pain during sex, does she take any medicine etc? And I don't want to be offensive, but are you sure you were a satisfying lover? Cause I'm sure women need way more than 3 minutes to orgasm (or at least most of them). Are there things you could have done differently?

[GetSmarter]

This is the kind of people I'm so scared of; people who never express their anger, annoyance, etc and then they get angry with people who don't realize how these people feel. I can't help not asking, have you talked to your wife about this matter all these years? What happened? Why don't you give her the chance to say how she feels? Why do you think all the sex you used to have these years were only quickies? Is it cause she has a low drive? Is she in any pain during sex, does she take any medicine etc? And I don't want to be offensive, but are you sure you were a satisfying lover? Cause I'm sure women need way more than 3 minutes to orgasm (or at least most of them). Are there things you could have done differently?

Yeah. I think I addressed that in this thread. Yes I spoke to her many times about it. I haven't been hiding or burying this issue at all. It's all amounted to nothing in the end.

[autumnnight]

This is the kind of people I'm so scared of; people who never express their anger, annoyance, etc and then they get angry with people who don't realize how these people feel. I can't help not asking, have you talked to your wife about this matter all these years? What happened? Why don't you give her the chance to say how she feels? Why do you think all the sex you used to have these years were only quickies? Is it cause she has a low drive? Is she in any pain during sex, does she take any medicine etc? And I don't want to be offensive, but are you sure you were a satisfying lover? Cause I'm sure women need way more than 3 minutes to orgasm (or at least most of them). Are there things you could have done differently?

 

I am not sure if you have read the whole thread, but he did all sorts of things including talking. I am way more afraid of women like his wife who assume that it is ok to neglect something very very important to their spouse with no repercussions. If you do not want to have sex, do not get married.

[oldshirt]

This is the kind of people I'm so scared of; people who never express their anger, annoyance, etc and then they get angry with people who don't realize how these people feel. I can't help not asking, have you talked to your wife about this matter all these years? What happened? Why don't you give her the chance to say how she feels? Why do you think all the sex you used to have these years were only quickies? Is it cause she has a low drive? Is she in any pain during sex, does she take any medicine etc? And I don't want to be offensive, but are you sure you were a satisfying lover? Cause I'm sure women need way more than 3 minutes to orgasm (or at least most of them). Are there things you could have done differently?

 

Please read what he has addressed clearly in the thread. He HAS addressed those issues throughout a period of decades. She just isn't interested.

[autumnnight]

Responses in bold below.

 

I think in my brain I sort of blurred this and the women settling for boring guys thread. So yeah, my post didn't make complete sense.

[SummerDreams]

Intimacy should notbhave to be earned.

 

Everything should have to be earned in a relationship. It's a flower that needs to be taken care of and put an effort to. In fact everything should be earned in every relationship, except maybe the parents' and kid's relationship. You should work to keep a relationship alive and overcome the obstacles that come in the way. The lack of intimacy means something, I'm sure no couple started a relationship without ever having sex or planning to have sex in the future. When sex stops from one part, something is the matter and this something should be expressed. I don't disagree there are women who don't want to bother with satisfying their husbands sexually and they just want a provider and father for the children. But there are women who stop having sex cause there are some problems, and these problems should be communicated.

[SummerDreams]

 

Dr Laura Schlesinger used to refer to men as very simple machines that function efficiently with minimal maintenance. All they need is a few drops of oil every day to run fine for many years and that sexuality is that oil. As long as they get those few drops of oil they are content and happy and willing to do what they can to make everything else run smoothly.

 

 

But if they don't get those few drops of oil every day things break down really bad very fast.

 

That sounds really despressing to be honest.

[autumnnight]

Everything should have to be earned in a relationship. It's a flower that needs to be taken care of and put an effort to. In fact everything should be earned in every relationship, except maybe the parents' and kid's relationship. You should work to keep a relationship alive and overcome the obstacles that come in the way. The lack of intimacy means something, I'm sure no couple started a relationship without ever having sex or planning to have sex in the future. When sex stops from one part, something is the matter and this something should be expressed. I don't disagree there are women who don't want to bother with satisfying their husbands sexually and they just want a provider and father for the children. But there are women who stop having sex cause there are some problems, and these problems should be communicated.

 

A person who withholds the most intimate act a couple shares as a form of threat or punishment or a privilege that must be earned has poor, selfish character. And if she is upset enough to cut off her husband, SHE is accountable to talk to HIM about it.

[GetSmarter]

Everything should have to be earned in a relationship. It's a flower that needs to be taken care of and put an effort to. In fact everything should be earned in every relationship, except maybe the parents' and kid's relationship. You should work to keep a relationship alive and overcome the obstacles that come in the way. The lack of intimacy means something, I'm sure no couple started a relationship without ever having sex or planning to have sex in the future. When sex stops from one part, something is the matter and this something should be expressed. I don't disagree there are women who don't want to bother with satisfying their husbands sexually and they just want a provider and father for the children. But there are women who stop having sex cause there are some problems, and these problems should be communicated.

I agree that it should be communicated. And if a woman has decided she really doesn't want sex with her husband anymore, she should be honest and just say so rather than pretend everything is OK. Maybe he can re-assess if he wants to stay or not.

[SummerDreams]

Sorry I had not read the whole thread so yeah, I see some things were answered indeed.

 

Yeah. I think I addressed that in this thread. Yes I spoke to her many times about it. I haven't been hiding or burying this issue at all. It's all amounted to nothing in the end.

 

I just wanted to know and I'm sorry if you have said it and I didn't read it, what was her reply to the lack of sex? Does she not enjoy sex? Does she find it needless in a marriage? Is there another reason she didn't want to have sex?

 

I am not sure if you have read the whole thread, but he did all sorts of things including talking. I am way more afraid of women like his wife who assume that it is ok to neglect something very very important to their spouse with no repercussions. If you do not want to have sex, do not get married.

 

Please read what he has addressed clearly in the thread. He HAS addressed those issues throughout a period of decades. She just isn't interested.

 

I'm not sure about the reason she did it. But I do know there are various reasons for a woman to deny sex in her marriage. And some of them are valid reasons.

 

A person who withholds the most intimate act a couple shares as a form of threat or punishment or a privilege that must be earned has poor, selfish character. And if she is upset enough to cut off her husband, SHE is accountable to talk to HIM about it.

 

I agree that it should be communicated. And if a woman has decided she really doesn't want sex with her husband anymore, she should be honest and just say so rather than pretend everything is OK. Maybe he can re-assess if he wants to stay or not.

 

Yes you are right that she should have talked to him about the reason she withheld sex. But sometimes things are not that easy to discuss. That's why a council would be useful. For example it's not easy to tell your husband "I don't want to have sex with you cause you don't satisfy me" or "I don't want to have sex with you cause I have the feeling you find me ugly / you don't like my body etc". Things in women's minds are not black and white. She could be a total manipulative b#tch who only wanted him for his money. But she could have had a serious problem that is hard for her to communicate.

[oldshirt]

That sounds really despressing to be honest.

 

How is that depressing? I think it is pretty accurate. Men actual require very little but if they don't get what they need, things break down very quickly.

 

I think it's important for people to be aware of that but I don't see it as anything to be depressed about.

[GetSmarter]

Ok. But she had many years to communicate. But to answer your question .. no she never came out and said "I don't want sex". She wouldn't admit to that even if that's how she felt. So by having a few minutes of sex a month, she felt that gave her the right to say that we do have sex. If I said it wasn't good enough she replied that I'm never happy.

 

Anyway, it all matters not. It's too late to change anything. I'll never be convinced of her sincerity if she got sexual now, and my resentment for those ****ty years will inevitably get in the way of things.

[oldshirt]

Sorry I had not read the whole thread so yeah, I see some things were answered indeed.

 

 

 

I just wanted to know and I'm sorry if you have said it and I didn't read it, what was her reply to the lack of sex? Does she not enjoy sex? Does she find it needless in a marriage? Is there another reason she didn't want to have sex?

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not sure about the reason she did it. But I do know there are various reasons for a woman to deny sex in her marriage. And some of them are valid reasons.

 

 

 

 

 

Yes you are right that she should have talked to him about the reason she withheld sex. But sometimes things are not that easy to discuss. That's why a council would be useful. For example it's not easy to tell your husband "I don't want to have sex with you cause you don't satisfy me" or "I don't want to have sex with you cause I have the feeling you find me ugly / you don't like my body etc". Things in women's minds are not black and white. She could be a total manipulative b#tch who only wanted him for his money. But she could have had a serious problem that is hard for her to communicate.

 

 

Again, read his posts.

 

I think you may be assuming this is one of those common cases where someone starts turning a cold shoulder to their spouse after years of a relatively happy marriage and active sex life. In those cases there may be a "Cause" that can be addressed and fixed.

 

However from the way I am reading his posts, it sounds to me that she was never sexually attracted to him and has never engaged enthusiastically with him.

 

It's not so much that she started refusing him or denying him lately, she has always ambivalent about their sex life and has "put out" at various intervals as "Duty Sex" to keep him around.

 

It's not that she is denying him and that he is living a completely celebrate life, but rather that she has no innate desire for him and has pretty much just kept him around all these years.

 

Other than him becoming a completely different person that she is attracted to (which is the point of the book and the website "Married Man Sex life") there is nothing to "fix" here. She simply doesn't dig him and likely never has.

 

This is not about her being resentful that he doesn't help with the kids enough or that he doesn't take her to nice restaurants or that he doesn't keep his toenails clipped short enough. It's that she sees him as a roommate and coparent and an ATM for the things she wants and not as a lover or a man she desires sexually.

 

His options here are to

 

- suck it up and live with it for the remainder of his days.

 

- change himself into someone else in hopes that she will desire who he becomes. (Which is what MMSL is about)

 

- seek romance/sexuality outside the marriage with or without her consent.

 

-divorce and move on in hopes of finding love elsewhere so he doesn't waste any more of his time with her.

 

At last count he was opting for the last option.

[GetSmarter]

Again, read his posts.

 

..

 

However from the way I am reading his posts, it sounds to me that she was never sexually attracted to him and has never engaged enthusiastically with him.

 

..

 

Not really. I did address that as well. While we dated and shortly after marriage, she couldn't keep her hand off of me. We had sex 2 or 3 times a day in all places and all positions.

 

Some of her girlfriends were hitting on me and she knew it. So that may have made her feel less secure and therefore more sexual.

 

If she had always been that way, then I would have had no room to complain. But I do feel I got a bait and switch routine whether it was intentional or not.

 

It really sort of dried up afterwards. I attribute it to the fact that I was already reeled in and no longer a challenge. Or something like that. Who knows?

 

divorce and move on in hopes of finding love elsewhere so he doesn't waste any more of his time with her.

 

I don't even care about that. I'm more in the mode of getting my freedom back as opposed to be tied to someone who ultimately has proven to be a roommate.

Edited March 25, 2015 by GetSmarter

[dichotomy]

That sounds really despressing to be honest.

 

 

Husband getting good fun enthusiastic sex

 

=

 

Wife getting hugs, presents, flowers, "I love you", "you are beautiful", "let me take care of things", "lets rent that new chick movie tonight while I pour you wine, rub your feet and tell you how lucky I am to have you"..... all rolled into one.

Edited March 25, 2015 by dichotomy

[oldshirt]

Husband getting good fun enthusiastic sex

 

=

 

Wife getting hugs, back rubs, "I love you", "you are beautiful", "let me take care of things", "lets rent that new chick movie tonight while I rub your feet and tell you how lucky I am to have you"..... all rolled into one.

 

And if you you've ever read any of Dr Laura Schlesingers books or listened to any of her radio shows, that is exactly what she says.

 

Men who are getting their sexual needs met are loving and cuddly and pleasant and supportive and nice etc etc etc

 

Where as men who aren't getting their needs met, quickly turn into *********s.

[dichotomy]

And if you you've ever read any of Dr Laura Schlesingers books or listened to any of her radio shows, that is exactly what she says.

 

Men who are getting their sexual needs met are loving and cuddly and pleasant and supportive and nice etc etc etc

 

Where as men who aren't getting their needs met, quickly turn into *********s.

 

 

The female marriage and sex therapist I took my wife to for almost a year said this several different ways - including a firm but funny argument with my wife who was complaining why the BJ's (disappearance of) kept being mentioned ....the female therapist said "its a great and loving act for husbands, and if the wives I see would just back to regular BJ's I would be out of a job" I could have hugged that therapist.

[redtail]

That sounds really despressing to be honest.

Personally I think there are two ways to look at that, because I'd say the OP's story is much more depressing than what Dr Laura Schlesinger has to say. And I certainly don't find the needs of women depressing even though they may or may not be the same as my own. Needs are needs.

 

It boils down to being sensitive to and meeting your partner's needs. This is true for both genders.

[oldshirt]

Responses below

 

 

Not really. I did address that as well. While we dated and shortly after marriage, she couldn't keep her hand off of me. We had sex 2 or 3 times a day in all places and all positions.

 

Some of her girlfriends were hitting on me and she knew it. So that may have made her feel less secure and therefore more sexual.

 

If she had always been that way, then I would have had no room to complain. But I do feel I got a bait and switch routine whether it was intentional or not.

 

It really sort of dried up afterwards. I attribute it to the fact that I was already reeled in and no longer a challenge. Or something like that. Who knows?

 

 

ok I stand corrected in that you used to have some wild monkey sex for a short time.

 

But after 20 years does it really matter????

 

 

 

I don't even care about that. I'm more in the mode of getting my freedom back as opposed to be tied to someone who ultimately has proven to be a roommate.

 

 

And that's an even more telling position. It's one thing to want to be with someone else. Buts it's a whole other reality to want out just to be on your own. I don't see how this marriage can be anything but dead. It just needs a death certificate signed by the judge (in the form of a divorce decree)

 

 

[redtail]

the female therapist said "its a great and loving act for husbands, and if the wives I see would just back to regular BJ's I would be out of a job" I could have married that therapist.

 

Fixed that for you...