Next time...

[SolG]

xMM and I have talked a lot about our A context. He wishes he had had the insight back in the beginning to question what his attraction (physical, emotional and intellectual) to me meant about himself and the way he related to his M, rather than questioning the attraction itself. He spent an inordinate amount of time and energy examining the pull factors (me and how we related), and it didn't even occur to him to go... Hang on... Wait a minute... What are the push factors about me that are allowing me to even feel this way outside of my primary relationship!? And what does it say about where I'm at that I'm contemplating acting on these feelings!?

 

If he'd consciously seen that his burgeoning attraction was a symptom of something else he wasn't treating, he could have followed the trail back to the causal factors around his disatisfaction with his M. Then he could have focussed his energies there, rather than on the symptomatic A. (And he, his W and I would not have had to go through all that pain for him to ultimately arrive at the same point anyway :-/)

 

That conversation led to me jokingly saying that next time a MM shows too much interest in me that I'll sit him down and subject him to an inquisition. Like.. Why are you pursuing me? What is it that you hope to find that you don't already have? Why don't you have that in your M? What have you done with your W to try and get it? Have you ever been exposed to infidelity before? Do you know what the potential cost is? Do you know how much pain it can potentially cause?

 

xMM and I both laughed. He said that would have made him, and undoubtedly will make any other MM run away very quickly.

 

Now reflecting on that conversation, which was largely light hearted at the time... I'm thinking maybe I would do exactly that! Maybe I could follow up my firm 'not interested', with a conversation for him to explore the underlying reasons why he is.

 

Who knows, maybe it might just make someone in the future think enough to stop them from going on to make the same grave mistakes we did.

Edited March 10, 2015 by SolG

[m4p]

That's a great insight! Unfortunately in most cases in infidelity we already subconsciously know the "problems" that had led to the A and chose not to accept facing it as entering the A was much more intriguing and a form of "fxxk it for once I will do what I want in my life as long as nobody finds out."

 

In my xMM case we were simply in denial until D-Day 1 month ago. We automatically went on NC UNTIL very recently when we started talking again. i know i know.. it was a bad call (sorry to all the NC-nazis here, lol). but we needed that closure before we really moved on with our lives. who am i kidding, but at this moment we have really ended things and started NC again. i have no wish to continue anything after all the pain and grief.

 

but anyway it did helped me and i think it helped him too to address the main issues that we have been avoiding speaking about for the past 2 years.

 

unfortunately it had to take D-Day and the last "closure talk" for us to finally admit and address the problems in our life; his M, my xRelationship.. and what led to the A. he told me the main factor was: 1) me and his natural attraction to me that went beyond physical 2) lack of communication and letting himself grow apart from his W in the marriage.

 

we are still heartbroken but honestly and genuinely want the best for each other. so things finally ended in a light hearted way and i encouraged him to make up all the pain and hurt we have caused to his W. he told me about his determination to make things work in his M and he loves her dearly and is horrified at the pain he caused. It hurts to hear but this is what he wants and I will never cling on to a man who doesn't love me(as much) and it is a also a final wake up call to me. We also made each other to stop apologizing and just let the past go. it wasnt easy but addressing all these really did made me able to move on.

 

officially 1 month since d-day and i still miss him BUT i am starting to find my footing in life and i think i am reaching the acceptance stage in grief.

 

sorry for ranting but i felt that this talk about the factors of what leads to the A should be discussed no matter what stage you are in. be it Entering.. in the midst... or ending.

 

but of course the prerequisite is that both of you have to be as honest as you can be with each other (how ironic since the whole A started on the basis of a lie anyway). this will not work if you have a cake-eater who is simply out to get a romp in the sack...

[SolG]

Unfortunately in most cases in infidelity we already subconsciously know the "problems" that had led to the A and chose not to accept facing it as entering the A was much more intriguing and a form of "fxxk it for once I will do what I want in my life as long as nobody finds out."

 

My view is slightly different. I think a lot of WSs-in-waiting are wandering around with a non-specific sense of discontent about their Ms. An almost fatalistic pessimism that the state of their M is a fair accompli; I love my H/W... BUT... my marriage isn't what I thought it would be... It's boring... We don't connect any more... This is just the way it is...

 

I actually don't think that many delve beyond this. To use connection as an example... Because it is probably a staple in the WS menu of marital complaints. They know they don't connect, but they don't know why. They don't take the time and effort to examine what happened to erode it in their M; to recognise the causal factors and the part they inevitably played. They don't take the time to recognise the inherent fixability (in a lot of cases) of that connection with effort if it is understood.

 

With their fait accompli mentality, the soon-to-be-WS doesn't think about the whys, they wander around focussed on their here and now emotional experience of feeling disconnected. Until low and behold, they stumble across connection elsewhere. In the arms of an AP. And this cements their thinking that there is just something inherently wrong with their M (and not their own thinking) because they could so easily connect over here, and not there. It was meant to be... Which in turn reinforces their propensity to not truly examine their M, because their need for connectedness is being met. Why make the effort to try and find something over there, when it's on tap over here?

 

Then the WS falls in love with the AP, while still loving the BS (yes, I also think this is relatively common). Then angst ensues, AP gets demanding, BS finds out, pain all around... All for want of some insight in the beginning.

 

I think I've written this before, but it's worth writing again. I think a goodly proportion of WSs and APs suffer from a certain amount of self-absorption and relationship dumbarsedness (yes, that is a technical term :-). I include myself in that assessment. But I'm working on it.

 

I'm absolutely with you on the fact that an end of A post-mortem with the MM/MW is a healthy thing for an AP to go through, and that it can help immeasurably with moving on. The caveat being that it needs to be sufficiently robust and analytical; as opposed to emotive and histrionic. And that's not necessarily achievable if either party is still intent on fait accompli thinking or dumbarsedness.

 

I still think it would be nice to try and promote snapping out of it at the beginning, as opposed to the end.

[Popsicle]

I am of the opinion that most MP's start out not knowing or believing they are having or about to have an affair. It's not something most people think about or ever see themselves doing. They are just talking to a "friend" or innocently admiring positive traits of someone of the opposite sex. Next thing you know, they are caught up after feelings are tapped into that they either deny they have anymore or just plain old forgot about (not purposefully). Some have even stopped imagining it anymore, what with all the routine and grind in life, and, then suddenly, there it is, hitting them over the head. It takes a while for them to sort out what's going on. If you were to tell them they were having an affair, they would deny it. They truly believe they aren't, because they believe they aren't, even though they would never tell anyone of what they are doing, especially not their spouse. They never set out to look for an affair.

 

Now serial cheaters on the other hand, they set out to look for someone to have an affair with. They are of a different mindset/breed, and aren't as common as the former type who have affairs.

[minimariah]

SolG,

 

you are seriously awesome. i love your posts and the way you think and i really hope you find someone who'll cherish you and be with you the way you deserve.

[jackslife]

There’s a website here in the UK called Illicit Encounters. It a dating site for married people looking to hook up with similar for an affair. The whole site sells its wares on the premise of discreet, exciting, harmless fun - The cure for marital ills rather than a potential cause of them.

 

I can’t speak of the men’s profiles but the woman’s all have very similar statements: “H and I are more like roommates”, “like brother and sister”, “not looking to change my life” etc. etc.

 

With the benefit of hindsight, such websites and the members of them, now seem shockingly naïve. How much better to try and work on the marriage rather than do something which can cause so much pain and distress for all concerned. Or maybe it is only by living through it and seeing the fall out can you really understand the reality of what an affair really is and does.

 

Maybe we can only learn from our own mistakes.

[minimariah]

Or maybe it is only by living through it and seeing the fall out can you really understand the reality of what an affair really is and does.

 

Maybe we can only learn from our own mistakes.

 

i think this is true.

people always try to rationalize & minimalize the pain.

 

you go from "it's just FUN, what you don't know can't hurt you" to "i'll leave and divorce you because you deserve to find someone who truly loves you so i'm really doing you a favor, children will be happier if i'm happy" - excuses, rationalization and more excuses. the only way to cope with the guilt, at the end of the day.

[Tullyseptember]

Wouldn't asking those questions you pose open the door to potentially an EA occurring? If there is an attraction on one persons part I could see those questions leading the person to a different conclusion than intended unless these questions were being asked in a professional setting. i.e.Therapy. Now those questions are excellent for you to ask yourself not to have a next time:)

[Popsicle]

i think this is true.

people always try to rationalize & minimalize the pain.

 

you go from "it's just FUN, what you don't know can't hurt you" to "i'll leave and divorce you because you deserve to find someone who truly loves you so i'm really doing you a favor, children will be happier if i'm happy" - excuses, rationalization and more excuses. the only way to cope with the guilt, at the end of the day.

 

You must be talking about MW's because most MM don't leave their M.

[SolG]

Wouldn't asking those questions you pose open the door to potentially an EA occurring? If there is an attraction on one persons part I could see those questions leading the person to a different conclusion than intended unless these questions were being asked in a professional setting. i.e.Therapy. Now those questions are excellent for you to ask yourself not to have a next time:)

 

Interesting point. I'll have to think on it some more... But in the interim, my initial gut reaction is no, it shouldn't lead to an EA. Because the questions are almost aggressively intrusive, and pointed towards the MM's motivation and role in his M and the state he percieves it to be in. As opposed to the generic (but not without exception I'm sure) OW designate response of sympathy/empathy and accepting of the whole MM woe is me my marriage sucks tale. It's the latter that generally leads to an EA. Thoughts?

 

Incidentally, I have guy friends that talk about their relationships with me. This type of interraction in and of itself does not constitute an EA. I emphatically know this now after being in an EA (as a precursor to a PA). I now know the difference, and it won't happen to me again. I had absolutely no clue before my A!

 

Maybe there is some truth to what an earlier poster wrote. Maybe some of we dumbarses can only learn our lessons by living them.

[Tullyseptember]

I agree the questions are aggressive and intrusive and should be asked by the parties directly impacted by an potentially wandering spouse. The questions posed are thought provoking although if someone has the intent to cheat the questions would just slide off that person and they would just move on to a next ap target! I think if someone was talking with a friend about problems in a relationship and honestly wanted to see all sides of the issue the questions would be good for self reflection