Was the OM or OW a predator in your case?

[VeryBrokenMan]

The moderators asked that I create a new thread to discuss this topic.

 

My experience is that my WW was taken advantage of by what I would consider a predator. The term Psychopath describes the OM in my situation perfectly.

 

Please see:

 

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/insight-is-2020/201410/sex-sexuality-and-the-psychopathsociopath-introduction

 

 

He displayed most of these traits:

 

1. GLIB and SUPERFICIAL CHARM -- the tendency to be smooth, engaging, charming, slick, and verbally facile. Psychopathic charm is not in the least shy, self-conscious, or afraid to say anything. A psychopath never gets tongue-tied. They have freed themselves from the social conventions about taking turns in talking, for example.

 

2. GRANDIOSE SELF-WORTH -- a grossly inflated view of one's abilities and self-worth, self-assured, opinionated, cocky, a braggart. Psychopaths are arrogant people who believe they are superior human beings.

 

3. NEED FOR STIMULATION or PRONENESS TO BOREDOM -- an excessive need for novel, thrilling, and exciting stimulation; taking chances and doing things that are risky. Psychopaths often have a low self- discipline in carrying tasks through to completion because they get bored easily. They fail to work at the same job for any length of time, for example, or to finish tasks that they consider dull or routine.

 

4. PATHOLOGICAL LYING -- can be moderate or high; in moderate form, they will be shrewd, crafty, cunning, sly, and clever; in extreme form, they will be deceptive, deceitful, underhanded, unscrupulous, manipulative, and dishonest.

 

5. CONNING AND MANIPULATIVENESS- the use of deceit and deception to cheat, con, or defraud others for personal gain; distinguished from Item #4 in the degree to which exploitation and callous ruthlessness is present, as reflected in a lack of concern for the feelings and suffering of one's victims.

 

6. LACK OF REMORSE OR GUILT -- a lack of feelings or concern for the losses, pain, and suffering of victims; a tendency to be unconcerned, dispassionate, coldhearted, and unempathic. This item is usually demonstrated by a disdain for one's victims.

 

7. SHALLOW AFFECT -- emotional poverty or a limited range or depth of feelings; interpersonal coldness in spite of signs of open gregariousness.

 

8. CALLOUSNESS and LACK OF EMPATHY -- a lack of feelings toward people in general; cold, contemptuous, inconsiderate, and tactless.

 

9. PARASITIC LIFESTYLE -- an intentional, manipulative, selfish, and exploitative financial dependence on others as reflected in a lack of motivation, low self-discipline, and inability to begin or complete responsibilities.

 

10. POOR BEHAVIORAL CONTROLS -- expressions of irritability, annoyance, impatience, threats, aggression, and verbal abuse; inadequate control of anger and temper; acting hastily.

 

11. PROMISCUOUS SEXUAL BEHAVIOR -- a variety of brief, superficial relations, numerous affairs, and an indiscriminate selection of sexual partners; the maintenance of several relationships at the same time; a history of attempts to sexually coerce others into sexual activity or taking great pride at discussing sexual exploits or conquests.

 

12. EARLY BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS -- a variety of behaviors prior to age 13, including lying, theft, cheating, vandalism, bullying, sexual activity, fire-setting, glue-sniffing, alcohol use, and running away from home.

 

13. LACK OF REALISTIC, LONG-TERM GOALS -- an inability or persistent failure to develop and execute long-term plans and goals; a nomadic existence, aimless, lacking direction in life.

 

14. IMPULSIVITY -- the occurrence of behaviors that are unpremeditated and lack reflection or planning; inability to resist temptation, frustrations, and urges; a lack of deliberation without considering the consequences; foolhardy, rash, unpredictable, erratic, and reckless.

 

15. IRRESPONSIBILITY -- repeated failure to fulfill or honor obligations and commitments; such as not paying bills, defaulting on loans, performing sloppy work, being absent or late to work, failing to honor contractual agreements.

 

16. FAILURE TO ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY FOR OWN ACTIONS -- a failure to accept responsibility for one's actions reflected in low conscientiousness, an absence of dutifulness, antagonistic manipulation, denial of responsibility, and an effort to manipulate others through this denial.

 

17. MANY SHORT-TERM MARITAL RELATIONSHIPS -- a lack of commitment to a long-term relationship reflected in inconsistent, undependable, and unreliable commitments in life, including marital.

 

18. JUVENILE DELINQUENCY -- behavior problems between the ages of 13- 18; mostly behaviors that are crimes or clearly involve aspects of antagonism, exploitation, aggression, manipulation, or a callous, ruthless tough-mindedness.

 

19. REVOCATION OF CONDITION RELEASE -- a revocation of probation or other conditional release due to technical violations, such as carelessness, low deliberation, or failing to appear.

 

20. CRIMINAL VERSATILITY -- a diversity of types of criminal offenses, regardless if the person has been arrested or convicted for them; taking great pride at getting away with crimes.

[carhill]

So, of the list provided, which aspects do you feel applied to your case and how has resolving those factors as attractive to your spouse impacted your reconciliation or interaction in your marriage?

[elaine567]

I believe that some WS can be sucked into affairs by predators, of course they can.

I also believe that some WSs are predators too, though.

[HereNorThere]

OM/OW preys on the WS like the WS preys on the BS.

[waterwoman]

No. She wasn't. Any more than he was. Was she a mistress of manipulation later on? Yes, I beleive so but that isn't the same thing.

[VeryBrokenMan]

So, of the list provided, which aspects do you feel applied to your case and how has resolving those factors as attractive to your spouse impacted your reconciliation or interaction in your marriage?

 

1. GLIB and SUPERFICIAL CHARM

He knew all the right things to say and text.

2. GRANDIOSE SELF-WORTH

Very high opinion of himself, stated many times in texts, yet has had over a dozen different employers the past few years.

3. NEED FOR STIMULATION or PRONENESS TO BOREDOM

I assume seducing my wife was him getting his stimulation, bored of his one year marriage?

4. PATHOLOGICAL LYING

Background check showed many things he said to my WW were not true

5. CONNING AND MANIPULATIVENESS

Manipulated her into meeting to talk, then aggressively went for sex

6. LACK OF REMORSE OR GUILT

Has shown no remorse or guilt since being caught

7. SHALLOW AFFECT

Don't know

8. CALLOUSNESS and LACK OF EMPATHY

obvious

 

9. PARASITIC LIFESTYLE

His wife makes most of the money, he has been unemployed often

10. POOR BEHAVIORAL CONTROLS

obvious / arrested for DWI/assault

 

11. PROMISCUOUS SEXUAL BEHAVIOR

obvious

 

12. EARLY BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS

I have his rap sheet, his criminal activity goes back to teen years.

13. LACK OF REALISTIC, LONG-TERM GOALS

Has had no success in life, no assets, does not own home

14. IMPULSIVITY

Don't know?

15. IRRESPONSIBILITY

Many jobs, has been sued 3 times by employers, sued by IRS for back taxes

16. FAILURE TO ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY FOR OWN ACTIONS

I assume that is why he has had so many jobs and been sued

 

17. MANY SHORT-TERM MARITAL RELATIONSHIPS

divorced three times, last one only married a year and cheating

18. JUVENILE DELINQUENCY

Has criminal history going back to teen years

 

19. REVOCATION OF CONDITION RELEASE

Don't know.

 

20. CRIMINAL VERSATILITY

 

Long criminal history including a sexual assault on a minor and adult in his early 20's and he served six years for those.

 

Of course my wife only saw the good side of him and did not know any of this(and still does not).

[minimariah]

in my situation - she was complimenting him, getting closer with him, she wanted him & went after him BUT that's not the definition of a predator to me.

 

i don't want a partner who is only faithful to me just because no one else is giving him the attention.

[badkarma2013]

Posted by VeryBrokenMan:"My experience is that my WW was taken advantage of by what I would consider a predator. The term Psychopath describes the OM in my situation perfectly.

 

*******************************************************************

 

First ..Let me say I appreciate the advice you have given me and the advice I have gleaned form your post...It has helped me see another side to this horror...And I Thank You...

 

However I must Disagree...My WW and yours ..Regardless of the traits of the OM...Made A CHOICE ... A Conscious Choice to have sex outside of marriage...My WW Lied,Deceived and Betrayed me and our marriage...

 

No mattered how the Om approched them ...spoke to them and Played them...they could have stopped it anytime...THEY CHOSE NOT TO....

 

There were hundreds of Red Flags that blew in the breeze from the time of the first contact till the first time they had sex....HUNDREDS...but they again CHOSE to ignore them.....

 

They ignored those warnings ..because they Liked It...No more no less...

 

While in I/C....I have learned NO ONE can make an ADULT do anything..nothing....they do it because they chose to....Badkarma

[carhill]

OP, reading your posting caused me to reflect on something I observed just yesterday, that being a young lady I know and watching how various men, both married and single (I've known them all for years) hit on her, with full knowledge that she has a boyfriend. I mention the person due to interactions we had while she was married (now divorced) and my consciously making a decision to not do what those guys were doing and do every day.

 

Simply put, they're being men and taking things as far as the woman will let them. In my demographic this is normal behavior and a man who exhibits abnormal behavior, which I did for many years, is excluded. Boiled down, woman puts out signals that she's available, men descend and she chooses amongst them for the next partner and provider. I saw this in my own M and have seen it with friends as well and it got me into trouble as a young man as an unwitting OM who initially thought he was dating a single woman, this before I came to understand the real interaction styles in my demographic.

 

Are predators sociopaths? They can be, sure. Is every OM a predator? IMO, no. Like other humans, OM/OW, BH/BW, MM/MW are all unique individuals. Additionally, behaviors are both socialized and learned by specific role models and specific demographics which affect behavior and decision-making processes. IMO, there's no one-stop shopping on this.

 

In essence, your marriage is your marriage and is unique in the universe, as was your wife's interactions with her affair partner. Will believing he was a sociopathic predator assist you in your own personal milieu? Unknown. That's something you'll have to figure out for yourself.

 

Our MC tended to focus on individual responsibility and task the marital partners to focus on their own responsibility rather than that of others. Work on self. IMO, it was healthy work.

[DKT3]

VBM, stop doing this to yourself. You can NOT CONTROL your wife staying faithful in the future.

 

I totally understand the thought process you currently have. Blame the OM, then blame yourself. All because you feel you can control those factors in turn control your wife's fidelity.

 

The truth is their were countless times during your over 30 years with you wife that men hit on her, countless times where they tried to prey on her, yet she (to the best of your knowledge) remained faithful. As she could have with this guy.

 

It was, at the end of the day her decision to cross the line. She isn't a helpless child who needed someone to hold her hand and walk her away from this guy.

 

I believe in an affair both people play both roles at one time or another. You have to accept that your wife wanted this, that she was happy with what she was doing and enjoyed it. You will get there at some point.

 

Accept that she did it, and SHE is 100% responsible for the pain you feel because of it. OM owed and owes you nothing. Him being a predator or not doesn't change what she did.

 

Once you accept that truth, then you can start to heal and come to really know if you can actually move forward in your marriage. Right now your looking for reasons to stay, you won't find any that are outside of YOU and HER.

[JohnAdams]

I do agree, regardless of the charms of the om, he would not have a shot without the willingness of the ww.

 

I think my wife's om had many of these traits. I am pretty sure he does not have a criminal record or juvinile delinquency.

 

Regardless of how smooth, good looking, and self assured he was, he would not have any chance of success without a willing person.

[VeryBrokenMan]

Posted by VeryBrokenMan:"My experience is that my WW was taken advantage of by what I would consider a predator. The term Psychopath describes the OM in my situation perfectly.

 

*******************************************************************

 

First ..Let me say I appreciate the advice you have given me and the advice I have gleaned form your post...It has helped me see another side to this horror...And I Thank You...

 

However I must Disagree...My WW and yours ..Regardless of the traits of the OM...Made A CHOICE ... A Conscious Choice to have sex outside of marriage...My WW Lied,Deceived and Betrayed me and our marriage...

 

No mattered how the Om approched them ...spoke to them and Played them...they could have stopped it anytime...THEY CHOSE NOT TO....

 

There were hundreds of Red Flags that blew in the breeze from the time of the first contact till the first time they had sex....HUNDREDS...but they again CHOSE to ignore them.....

 

They ignored those warnings ..because they Liked It...No more no less...

 

While in I/C....I have learned NO ONE can make an ADULT do anything..nothing....they do it because they chose to....Badkarma

 

 

Oh I agree she made the choice (I've posted this a lot the last few days) but it never would have gotten off the ground had he not gone after her in an aggressive manner. He knew EXACTLY what he was doing and what he was after. But I still hold her 100% responsible. She could have said no, stop, bye but never did so it's all on her. But the OM was the ignition to the fire when he went after a married women.

[truncated]

While an om or ow can certainly be a psychopath, that does not absolve a ws from their actions or make them, in any way, a victim.

 

A ws cheats because they decided to do so. It is the sum total of a serries of decisions they made. Unless they were held down and forced, drugged or somehow coerced into having an affair, they went in eyes wide open.

 

This is also true for om/ow. They got into the affair because they wanted to, and that is on no one but them. They may have been lied to by the ws, but they believed them because they were being told what they wanted to hear, and because it fit into the way they wanted to view both the affair and their ap's marriage.

 

Plenty of people are in marriages or other relationships that are less than ideal, but that does not mean that they cheat. for whatever reason, they actively make the choice not to do so, and it won't matter who they meet in their life outside the marriage.

 

It's like a used car salesman who's working at a car lot that is well known for selling pieces of junk trying to unload one of the old wrecks. They might polish it up on the outside, but as soon as someone gets inside and turns the key, it's obvious it's a piece of cr@p when the engine grinds, the oil leaks and smoke comes out form under the hood. At some point , it becomes the responsibility of the buyer for their decision to ignore all of that and buy it anyway. ( in case of the om or ow)

 

In the case of the ws, why are they even in the lot anyway? If they stayed away, they would never be in a position to hear the salesman's shtick.

 

This doesn't make the salesman a great guy or make him innocent in the whole thing, but he is also not wholly responsible. As an adult, we are capable of free will, but along with that, we must also accept responsibility when we make crap choices.

[carhill]

1. GLIB and SUPERFICIAL CHARM

He knew all the right things to say and text.<snip additional specifics>

 

Of course my wife only saw the good side of him and did not know any of this(and still does not).

 

Thanks for the detailed response. You appear to have quite a marked knowledge of the life and times of this person, which indicates either great due diligence or the work of a private investigator to collect such information.

 

How has that work process and product, going back to my original question, impacted or assisted you in your reconciliation or interactions in your marriage?

[VeryBrokenMan]

VBM, stop doing this to yourself. You can NOT CONTROL your wife staying faithful in the future.

 

I totally understand the thought process you currently have. Blame the OM, then blame yourself. All because you feel you can control those factors in turn control your wife's fidelity.

 

The truth is their were countless times during your over 30 years with you wife that men hit on her, countless times where they tried to prey on her, yet she (to the best of your knowledge) remained faithful. As she could have with this guy.

 

It was, at the end of the day her decision to cross the line. She isn't a helpless child who needed someone to hold her hand and walk her away from this guy.

 

I believe in an affair both people play both roles at one time or another. You have to accept that your wife wanted this, that she was happy with what she was doing and enjoyed it. You will get there at some point.

 

Accept that she did it, and SHE is 100% responsible for the pain you feel because of it. OM owed and owes you nothing. Him being a predator or not doesn't change what she did.

 

Once you accept that truth, then you can start to heal and come to really know if you can actually move forward in your marriage. Right now your looking for reasons to stay, you won't find any that are outside of YOU and HER.

 

I'm not looking to blame anyone else. I'm trying to see the big picture here.

 

She was happy and wanted this, but under FALSE pretenses. Yes she controlled the process, she could have said no at anytime. She chose to take a step and then another. But she was being hand fed from someone that knew exactly what he was doing. My WW is very trusting and is not hardened from years of dating. She honestly did not understand that men could be like he was because all she has known is the safety of our marriage.

 

She honestly felt like this man loved her, but again that was a LIE he used to keep her on the hook for sex. She tried to break it off at one point and that is when he started telling her he loved her and could not live without her. Does anyone here think that the OM loved her given his three divorces and criminal past? He was clearly just manipulating her emotions.

[pheonixrisen]

I don't believe our ow was a predator ..she did pursue but I am sure my h did not push away either . ..It was more like desperation (ow) meets opportunist (my h)

[JohnAdams]

Oh I agree she made the choice (I've posted this a lot the last few days) but it never would have gotten off the ground had he not gone after her in an aggressive manner. He knew EXACTLY what he was doing and what he was after. But I still hold her 100% responsible. She could have said no, stop, bye but never did so it's all on her. But the OM was the ignition to the fire when he went after a married women.

 

I think the reason it works for some men is that they have qualities that appeals to the ww. Perhaps they are good looking and the wife is flattered that "he" would give her attention. Perhaps he is exciting and that is appealing to a bored housewife. Perhaps he is just giving her attention and she is attention starved. There was something about the om that she was willing to throw her marriage away to obtain the affection of the om. I am sure others have hit on your wife, perhaps they did not have the qualities that she found irrestiable. In the end, she was willing to throw it all away for the om. Perhaps the answer is in why she would be willing to do this?

[VeryBrokenMan]

Thanks for the detailed response. You appear to have quite a marked knowledge of the life and times of this person, which indicates either great due diligence or the work of a private investigator to collect such information.

 

How has that work process and product, going back to my original question, impacted or assisted you in your reconciliation or interactions in your marriage?

 

A well paid private investigator provided all these bits of info to me.

 

Sorry, I meant to answer your question at the end of my post. Having all this information allows me to see all sides of what happened and to see the big picture of how things started, why they progressed and what really happened and when. It allows me to have empathy for her, to corroborate what she tells me as truth. And while I've not yet let her know this I do see her as a victim in part.

[VeryBrokenMan]

I think the reason it works for some men is that they have qualities that appeals to the ww. Perhaps they are good looking and the wife is flattered that "he" would give her attention. Perhaps he is exciting and that is appealing to a bored housewife. Perhaps he is just giving her attention and she is attention starved. There was something about the om that she was willing to throw her marriage away to obtain the affection of the om. I am sure others have hit on your wife, perhaps they did not have the qualities that she found irrestiable. In the end, she was willing to throw it all away for the om. Perhaps the answer is in why she would be willing to do this?

 

More than anything it was the timing and his force of personality. He was/is a con man and she fell for his act. It's pretty simple in my mind.

[minimariah]

there is no predator without a victim. so if you insist on calling this OM a predator - your W is a victim, by the definition.

 

he used her, seduced her and manipulated her - but that's what all of us do at one point in our lives, no? we all chased someone we liked at one point, no?

 

this OM is irrelevant to you. she was willing. and that's ALL that matters. you keep focusing on this OM & your anger is understandable but misdirected.

 

your WW is the only one you should be focusing on. if it wasn't for this OM, there would be someone else - trust me when i say that. she might be vulnerable, emotionally unstable at that point but there is a reason why she went to this OM, not you.

 

focusing on the AP is so draining... trust me. & you should never give the OW or OM all this power - not even when they're someone close to you.

 

let it go, honey. this OM is totally irrelevant in this entire story. work on YOU and your W needs to work on her own emotional stability. that's all there is to it.

[minimariah]

More than anything it was the timing and his force of personality. He was/is a con man and she fell for his act. It's pretty simple in my mind.

 

but the question is - WHY did she fall for it?

 

is she emotionally unstable? is she too trusting, too naive, easily manipulated?

[Timshel]

A predator would be a rapist, a person who assaults, stalks or engages in some form of illegal behavior for personal gain or satisfaction. The use of the word predator implies that your WS is an unwilling victim; that there there is an element of force and that your WS was powerless.

Further, your effort to label the OM as either a sociopath or psychopath, while understandable, is far fetched and of course ethically unreasonable.

It seems that you are making an effort to criminalize and demonize the OM in order to mentally absolve your WS's actions.

I know that this is helpful for you in order to find forgiveness toward your wife. However, I would suggest that now that the A is over and you are focused on reconciliation, preoccupying yourselves with the evils of the OM is a stagnation of rebuilding your marriage and is nothing more than a futile distraction.

It is easier to preoccupy yourself with the actions of the OM than to focus on the realities of your marriage and WS behavior and motivations. That is very difficult and I am sympathetic. None the less, I think this thread is unnecessary and irrelevant to the process of healing your marriage. Of course this is only my personal opinion. Best wishes.

[Confused48]

She isn't a helpless child who needed someone to hold her hand and walk her away from this guy.

 

I wonder if maybe this is part of what is going on here. VBM takes care of this woman. Perhaps she sees him as a father figure on some level. Perhaps that is part of the relationship dynamic.

 

In this scenario, VBM did not fulfill his "duty" to keep tabs on WS. WS got away with some bad behavior. Now VBM is demanding access and information about WS's activities. VBM is requiring proper behavior, verification of that and getting it. Like a parent would get from a child that strayed but ultimately wanted to be a good child in the eyes of the parent. WS is happy to give VBM what he wants, he just was not keeping close enough watch on WS. He did not properly "protect" WS but rather let WS play with some bad people and that "lead" WS to stray.

 

I'm not advocating that this is healthy or that VBM should take any of the blame etc... I'm just saying this could be what is going on.

[VeryBrokenMan]

but the question is - WHY did she fall for it?

 

is she emotionally unstable? is she too trusting, too naive, easily manipulated?

 

Too trusting, too naive and he manipulated her.

[VeryBrokenMan]

A predator would be a rapist, a person who assaults, stalks or engages in some form of illegal behavior for personal gain or satisfaction. The use of the word predator implies that your WS is an unwilling victim; that there there is an element of force and that your WS was powerless.

Further, your effort to label the OM as either a sociopath or psychopath, while understandable, is far fetched and of course ethically unreasonable.

It seems that you are making an effort to criminalize and demonize the OM in order to mentally absolve your WS's actions.

I know that this is helpful for you in order to find forgiveness toward your wife. However, I would suggest that now that the A is over and you are focused on reconciliation, preoccupying yourselves with the evils of the OM is a stagnation of rebuilding your marriage and is nothing more than a futile distraction.

It is easier to preoccupy yourself with the actions of the OM than to focus on the realities of your marriage and WS behavior and motivations. That is very difficult and I am sympathetic. None the less, I think this thread is unnecessary and irrelevant to the process of healing your marriage. Of course this is only my personal opinion. Best wishes.

 

I'm not preoccupied with the OM at all. I'm looking at all sides of this and this is just one small facet.