Was the OM or OW a predator in your case?

[SawtoothMars]

I did not seek to have an affair...but i certainly made the choice to allow it to happen. I was naive and stupid....but i know right from wrong...and i knew that what i was doing was wrong. I was not helpless.

Mrs. VBM...may have been naive and stupid....but she too knew right from wrong and she made the choice just like i did..to put herself above all others...her wants, her needs, her ego....and gave herself to another man.

Predator? yes Victim...by choice

 

What kind of lion gazelle relationship only works if the gazelle WANTS to get caught? That just doesn't make sense.

 

I blame the OM about 0%. He didn't stand before God and everybody and swear to love me.

[HereNorThere]

You're giving this guy too much credit. He's probably not nearly as skilled as you think. More like an opportunist looking for low hanging fruit.

 

Look, if the only thing that was standing between your wife and cheating was someone aggressively pursuing her, you need to pack your stuff up, buy her a burqa and get to the Middle East where you can have some control of this sort of that thing.

 

He didn't force himself on her and make her physically defend herself, instead all she had to was close a browser window. That's right. All this pain, suffering and everything you've gone through could have been easily prevented with one mouse click.

 

Your marriage, your sanity, wasn't even worth that extra mouse click. She did this to you, she was the predator. You are never going to convince me that a woman her age doesn't know that there are bad people out there. That in and of itself is ridiculous and you're doing a disservice by gas-lighting yourself. She wasn't a kid molested by her gym coach, she was a grown ass woman who has been married longer than a lot of the posters here have even been alive. Sorry, you just don't get that far in life without picking up a few things. Even the youngest of kids know not to talk to strangers.

[beatcuff]

Somehow she manged to stay faithful for 30 plus years until this guy came along.

 

He gave her attention and compliments and she responded at a time in her life when her self esteem was very low.

 

here's where you are heading off track you think it was HIM in fact it was going to be ANY man. hence the constant drum beat it is on her not that OM (because it was going to be someone) or alcohol.

 

as harsh as it this is: you now realize there was a void in her life, one you failed to fill: either you did not see it or chose to ignore it. that void was filled by him. no predator here just an opportunist.

[DKT3]

The change is: NOW she sees the bad in people. She had no clue before this that men could be manipulative and deceptive to get sex. But you need to understand she has not used this predator defense AT ANY TIME. She has NOT ONCE blamed the OM. Him being a predator does not excuse her in the least but it lets me see (with an open mind) what really happened. What you want to believe is that she went looking for it because she was (insert your reason here) and that is simply not the case. I have the proof in the texts, it's not a question of her telling the truth about it. He aggressively went after a naive married women and lied to her about his feelings to get sex. That is a predator.

 

I disagree, it's totally healthy to look at every angle and see the affair for what it really was. My IC has suggest that on many occasions and I've discussed ALL of this with her many times. I'm not to 40 hours on this issue but I've spent a lot of time talking with my IC and she fully approves the path I'm taking.

 

The affair lasted 77 days first contact to DDay. She had no end game, she got caught up in the attention and was infatuated. I have all the texts and emails and there was never any plans for the future of any kind.

 

It's not impossible to not go looking for it but allow it to continue, those are two totally different things. She was open to it because he was so aggressive, you take that out of it and the affair never happens.

 

Somehow she manged to stay faithful for 30 plus years until this guy came along. What she saw in him were (false) words of affirmation. She was feeling like her looks were fading and her body was not as tight as years past. I think these are normal thoughts for a women in her late forties.

 

He gave her attention and compliments and she responded at a time in her life when her self esteem was very low. He did all that to get sex and he did so in an aggressive manner. He's not successful or good looking and a younger WW of mine might not have given him the time of day 10 years ago.

 

Had she run into another predator prior to this would she have strayed? Maybe but I think I can give her the benefit of the doubt because she didn't for 30 years and she is not an unattractive women. I've always seen how heads turn when she walks in some place, that's been my life.

 

At the moment of that phone call she did not know all the things about him that she now knows. She did not see how he strung her along for sex or anything about his criminal history. All she knew at that moment was how good he acted toward her and how good he made her feel. All of those things were false because he was ONLY in it for the sex, he proved that in out last call to him we made together.

 

So what do you think would have happened if he wasn't a d I c k?

 

I agree its not unhealthy to look at it from all angles, what's unhealthy is your looking for a reason to stay. Its far more important that you know what she would have done if he was what he said he was, and how she allowed herself to get to that point. What he did to aide her isn't important. Why? What will she do if a good looking man with everything going does the same thing but only better.

[VeryBrokenMan]

What kind of lion gazelle relationship only works if the gazelle WANTS to get caught? That just doesn't make sense.

 

I blame the OM about 0%. He didn't stand before God and everybody and swear to love me.

 

I see it as a chain of events. When an airplane crashes (or a car) they normally attribute the crash to a sequence of events that took place and at any point if that chain is broken the airplane does not crash.

 

The first link of the chain in this case was the OM contacted my WW on Facebook. That could have been the end of it. She continued to text. He started complimenting her. She could have said thanks but I'm married. And so it went until they ended up naked. At any point along that path she could have said no thanks. She did not. But the chain of events was started by him. He deserves ALL the blame for that. He could not given her compliment after compliment knowing she was married. But he did. Why did he do that? Because he wanted to F*#k her that's why and he did all this in a calculating way to romance her to get her naked.

 

That is where the chain started and his compliments and attention greased that chain along. Does anyone really believe that he wanted a long term relationship or anything but sex?

[HereNorThere]

I see it as a chain of events. When an airplane crashes (or a car) they normally attribute the crash to a sequence of events that took place and at any point if that chain is broken the airplane does not crash.

 

The first link of the chain in this case was the OM contacted my WW on Facebook. That could have been the end of it. She continued to text. He started complimenting her. She could have said thanks but I'm married. And so it went until they ended up naked. At any point along that path she could have said no thanks. She did not. But the chain of events was started by him. He deserves ALL the blame for that. He could not given her compliment after compliment knowing she was married. But he did. Why did he do that? Because he wanted to F*#k her that's why and he did all this in a calculating way to romance her to get her naked.

 

That is where the chain started and his compliments and attention greased that chain along. Does anyone really believe that he wanted a long term relationship or anything but sex?

 

How far back are you willing to take this chain of events? I mean, I guess we could say without the big bang, single celled organisms dividing into multi-cellular organisms, the asteroid that killed the dinosaurs and allowed mammals to flourish and that damn Mark Zuckerberg stealing the Winkelvoss twin's social media website design, this would have never happened.

 

Bastards.

[VeryBrokenMan]

So what do you think would have happened if he wasn't a d I c k?

 

I agree its not unhealthy to look at it from all angles, what's unhealthy is your looking for a reason to stay. Its far more important that you know what she would have done if he was what he said he was, and how she allowed herself to get to that point. What he did to aide her isn't important. Why? What will she do if a good looking man with everything going does the same thing but only better.

 

I'm not looking for a reason to stay at all. Him being a predator is not even on the radar in that regard, I'm just trying to have a deeper understanding.

 

Her remaining faithful is not even on my radar either. I have not given it a second thought really and that comes from a position of strength. Because I've come to a point where I'm OK not having her in my life. I know I can have a great life without her and I'm OK leaving her IF she were to do it again. My eyes are open.

 

I'm staying because I love my wife, she gave me 30 plus really great(and faithful) years. She has been by all accounts a great mother. Sex is amazing. She is beautiful and I still lust after her. She is an amazing companion and my best friend and we have had some great adventures together. And she has some flaws that she is willing to change about herself.

 

All this other stuff is just about understanding, I've made my decision.

[VeryBrokenMan]

How far back are you willing to take this chain of events? I mean, I guess we could say without the big bang, single celled organisms dividing into multi-cellular organisms, the asteroid that killed the dinosaurs and allowed mammals to flourish and that damn Mark Zuckerberg stealing the Winkelvoss twin's social media website design, this would have never happened.

 

Bastards.

 

To the first link.

 

The first link was him contacting her with a purpose knowing she was married. Why is that hard to understand?

[Mrs. John Adams]

I see it as a chain of events. When an airplane crashes (or a car) they normally attribute the crash to a sequence of events that took place and at any point if that chain is broken the airplane does not crash.

 

The first link of the chain in this case was the OM contacted my WW on Facebook. That could have been the end of it. She continued to text. He started complimenting her. She could have said thanks but I'm married. And so it went until they ended up naked. At any point along that path she could have said no thanks. She did not. But the chain of events was started by him. He deserves ALL the blame for that. He could not given her compliment after compliment knowing she was married. But he did. Why did he do that? Because he wanted to F*#k her that's why and he did all this in a calculating way to romance her to get her naked.

 

That is where the chain started and his compliments and attention greased that chain along. Does anyone really believe that he wanted a long term relationship or anything but sex?

 

no one believes he wanted anything but sex...i am quite confident all he wanted was sex.

 

Listen...my om threw out the hook to go fishing....he had done it a million times. I took the bait. We can say he is a predator because he threw out the bait...but he did not force me to take the bait. that was my choice and i knew that taking the bait could lead me to dangerous waters....but the bait tasted so good..i took it hook line and sinker.

I do not blame him for fishing...he has every right to fish

I blame me for taking the bait.

 

Your wife's om went fishing on Facebook and your wife took the bait.

[badkarma2013]

Posted By VerybrokenMan..."Because he wanted to F*#k her that's why and he did all this in a calculating way to romance her to get her naked. "

 

 

 

I love you guy....Please see the differance here...And she wanted to FU@K him also..OR IT WOULD HAVE NEVER HAPPENED...

 

AS with my WW..SHE COULD HAVE STOPPED EVERYTHING..but she chose Not Too..They wanted it to happen and no one here can convince me otherwise..

 

Why this man and why your WW went to him and not dozens maybe hundreds of OM who hit on her...you may never know what happened .But like me it Did...

 

I never blamed the Om until the Pics were shown to me...It was My WW who chose to turn into his Who%e and on HER ALL THE BLAME FALLS...The operative word here is NO...And our WWs never said NO...Badkarma

[drifter777]

This preoccupation with the OM is beyond ridicules - it is harmful to VBM. You can "forgive" because she was ambushed and sexually ravished by some horrible, evil Svengali. How could you expect her to NOT cheat for crying out loud? You are simply fooling yourself - deep in denial - that you can live through this betrayal and get things back to the way they used to be. That your wife and marriage are not tarnished by her cheating. It wasn't her fault.

 

And those who keep chiming in with "how many times does he have to say he's not letting his wife off the hook" - just look at how many threads & posts VBM has made referring to the OM. Too many for me to count. He's obsessed with it and simply not ready to face the truth.

 

VBM - there are so many facts that fly in the face of your whole "the predator made her do it" argument that it's clear you are not going to accept what I am saying. So be it, you are not ready for the truth yet.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Badkarma....thank you for this

 

And she wanted to FU@K him also..OR IT WOULD HAVE NEVER HAPPENED...

 

AS with my WW..SHE COULD HAVE STOPPED EVERYTHING..but she chose Not Too..

 

You are so absolutely right..omg

 

it hurts..god it hurts...but you are right

[DKT3]

I have been reading all this and trying to process it...and it conjured up an image in my mind.

 

In the jungle....the lion sizes up it's prey....it looks for the weakest and the youngest and the injured. It plans its attack ....and slowly, rhythmically it begins the chase.....

 

but the lion does not win every time...she does not always get the prey...sometimes the prey is smarter or quicker...and it escapes....and when that happens the prey overcomes being the victim.I

 

the lion lays down and licks its wounds and then prepares itself to go after the next prey....and this time...she catches it because the prey did something stupid....turned the wrong direction or did not run fast enough...and the lion devours it....for her own enjoyment....she doesn't care that the victim belonged to someone else...she doesn't care that the family of the victim will mourn the loss forever....the loss of innocence..the loss of family...

 

There are certainly predators ....my om was a predator....VBM's wife om was a predator....a person who is out for their own gain, their own satisfaction...never giving thought to steeling someone precious to someone else.

 

Now....i am only a victim if i allow the predator to win...but he is still a predator...

 

I did not seek to have an affair...but i certainly made the choice to allow it to happen. I was naive and stupid....but i know right from wrong...and i knew that what i was doing was wrong. I was not helpless.

 

Mrs. VBM...may have been naive and stupid....but she too knew right from wrong and she made the choice just like i did..to put herself above all others...her wants, her needs, her ego....and gave herself to another man.

 

Predator? yes Victim...by choice

 

Absolutely 100% disagree. Only prey in this story is VBM. He the lowly worthog, she the cheetah that ate him and the OM the Lion who toyed with the cheetah for awhile.

 

His wife did to him what OM did to her only worse, because of 31 years.

[Confused48]

You're giving this guy too much credit. He's probably not nearly as skilled as you think. More like an opportunist looking for low hanging fruit.

 

Look, if the only thing that was standing between your wife and cheating was someone aggressively pursuing her, you need to pack your stuff up, buy her a burqa and get to the Middle East where you can have some control of this sort of that thing.

 

He didn't force himself on her and make her physically defend herself, instead all she had to was close a browser window. That's right. All this pain, suffering and everything you've gone through could have been easily prevented with one mouse click.

 

Your marriage, your sanity, wasn't even worth that extra mouse click. She did this to you, she was the predator. You are never going to convince me that a woman her age doesn't know that there are bad people out there. That in and of itself is ridiculous and you're doing a disservice by gas-lighting yourself. She wasn't a kid molested by her gym coach, she was a grown ass woman who has been married longer than a lot of the posters here have even been alive. Sorry, you just don't get that far in life without picking up a few things. Even the youngest of kids know not to talk to strangers.

 

HereNor- Great post. I agree with your post 100%. I think the WS would agree to. I've not heard the WS deflecting blame to the AP. That is typically more the BS that does that.

 

However, despite that I agree with your take on this, I think the BS here has a point. Not all APs are created equal. His WS was a faithful wife for 30 years. That counts for something. The AP she fell for was quite a piece of work. Do you really think they were equals in the A? They were both acting evil, I grant you that. I think the OM was more so though. Not sure how much that matters but from a subjective point of view I think it is safe to say the OM is more evil, more of a danger to society. More deserving of reproach.

[VeryBrokenMan]

Posted By VerybrokenMan..."Because he wanted to F*#k her that's why and he did all this in a calculating way to romance her to get her naked. "

 

 

 

I love you guy....Please see the differance here...And she wanted to FU@K him also..OR IT WOULD HAVE NEVER HAPPENED...

 

AS with my WW..SHE COULD HAVE STOPPED EVERYTHING..but she chose Not Too..They wanted it to happen and no one here can convince me otherwise..

 

Why this man and why your WW went to him and not dozens maybe hundreds of OM who hit on her...you may never know what happened .But like me it Did...

 

I never blamed the Om until the Pics were shown to me...It was My WW who chose to turn into his Who%e and on HER ALL THE BLAME FALLS...The operative word here is NO...And our WWs never said NO...Badkarma

 

I don't argue that point that she wanted to LATER. She chose that but much later and only to keep the attention flowing. The first link in the chain was him contacting her becuase he wanted to F&*k her. She just wanted the attention and she was only in it for the attention and compliments AT FIRST.

[Mrs. John Adams]

we will agree to disagree then.

 

It doesn't matter if they were married 2 days or 50 years. Betrayal hurts, infidelity hurts.

 

Mrs. VBM is not worse than me because she was married 31 years and i was married 11... or If my affair lasted 8 weeks and someone elses lasted 4 years.....my god

 

it hurts..EA PA ONS LTA

 

ALL WS plunged the knife into their spouses chest and twisted it....we are all guilty

[VeryBrokenMan]

This preoccupation with the OM is beyond ridicules - it is harmful to VBM. You can "forgive" because she was ambushed and sexually ravished by some horrible, evil Svengali. How could you expect her to NOT cheat for crying out loud? You are simply fooling yourself - deep in denial - that you can live through this betrayal and get things back to the way they used to be. That your wife and marriage are not tarnished by her cheating. It wasn't her fault.

 

And those who keep chiming in with "how many times does he have to say he's not letting his wife off the hook" - just look at how many threads & posts VBM has made referring to the OM. Too many for me to count. He's obsessed with it and simply not ready to face the truth.

 

VBM - there are so many facts that fly in the face of your whole "the predator made her do it" argument that it's clear you are not going to accept what I am saying. So be it, you are not ready for the truth yet.

 

Do you actually read any of my posts completely?

[VeryBrokenMan]

Absolutely 100% disagree. Only prey in this story is VBM. He the lowly worthog, she the cheetah that ate him and the OM the Lion who toyed with the cheetah for awhile.

 

His wife did to him what OM did to her only worse, because of 31 years.

 

No she just made a bad choice. She did not eat me, I'm whole and I'm going to have a great life with or without her. Your mind is made up and I see that I'm not going to change it.

[Confused48]

That is where the chain started and his compliments and attention greased that chain along. Does anyone really believe that he wanted a long term relationship or anything but sex?

 

What if he was honorable in his intentions? WHat if the OM was not just out for sex but thought he found his soul mate? What if he never committed any crimes or anti social behavior his entire life? So then would it be ok for your wife to fall for him, to run off with him? Of course not, you have said so. So she is still a bad actor in this. It just makes her a fool as well, since she fell for such scum.

[autumnnight]

This preoccupation with the OM is beyond ridicules - it is harmful to VBM. You can "forgive" because she was ambushed and sexually ravished by some horrible, evil Svengali. How could you expect her to NOT cheat for crying out loud? You are simply fooling yourself - deep in denial - that you can live through this betrayal and get things back to the way they used to be. That your wife and marriage are not tarnished by her cheating. It wasn't her fault.

 

And those who keep chiming in with "how many times does he have to say he's not letting his wife off the hook" - just look at how many threads & posts VBM has made referring to the OM. Too many for me to count. He's obsessed with it and simply not ready to face the truth.

 

VBM - there are so many facts that fly in the face of your whole "the predator made her do it" argument that it's clear you are not going to accept what I am saying. So be it, you are not ready for the truth yet.

 

Actually everyone else not preoccupied with pounding into his head that his own life experience cannot possibly be right and that he basically has to pour everything onto his wife, the topic would probably have been dropped by now.

 

We get it. Some people are afraid to mention the OM because it might detract from how awful the WW is.

[autumnnight]

What if he was honorable in his intentions? WHat if the OM was not just out for sex but thought he found his soul mate? What if he never committed any crimes or anti social behavior his entire life? So then would it be ok for your wife to fall for him, to run off with him? Of course not, you have said so. So she is still a bad actor in this. It just makes her a fool as well, since she fell for such scum.

 

AAANNNNNDDD for those who have read, VBM has stated repeatedly that he knows his wife is responsible for her choice.

[VeryBrokenMan]

What if he was honorable in his intentions? WHat if the OM was not just out for sex but thought he found his soul mate? What if he never committed any crimes or anti social behavior his entire life? So then would it be ok for your wife to fall for him, to run off with him? Of course not, you have said so. So she is still a bad actor in this. It just makes her a fool as well, since she fell for such scum.

 

The "What if" game is not a productive to look at this or any problem for that matter.

 

What if (insert hot movie star name here) called me up and wanted to have NSA sex and would not take no for an answer? Did that happen, were those the facts? No, so see how stupid it is to play what if?

 

The facts are that he was all those things that made him a predator.

[bigman1]

VBM,

 

Dude, I am so sorry for your struggles. Here is the thing, there is a thing called a DEFENSE and then there is MITIGATION.

 

A defense admits the conduct but says that it was not wrong in light of the circumstances. For example, in a case of self defense you would admit taking a life, but would say that it was excused because you were defending yourself. Your first post in this thread clearly shows that you are not giving your wife a defense.

 

Mitigation, however, is different. It admits the conduct, but says that certain factors came into play that make the perpetrator "not as bad" as others. For example, "she stole because she had to survive vs. she stole because she was too lazy to work." You are attempting to mitigate your wife's conduct by suggesting that the OM was a predator or narcissist or whatever.

 

 

You are never going to find peace with this until you stop trying to mitigate her conduct or give her a reason to have strayed. I understand that you say that you are effectively making her own this 100%, but in reality, you are not. I make arguments in mitigation all the time for clients. Believe me when I say that I know the difference. As much as you want to claim otherwise, you are trying to soften, mitigate, explain or otherwise find something favorable in your WW. There is none.

 

Embrace the ugly truth. All of it. She wanted him and he wanted her and they betrayed you. No mitigation. THAT is what you have to do if you want to truly reconcile. It is also what you must do if you want to end this marriage. If you accept the ugly truth of who she was, who she could still be, what she was capable of doing and could do again, and the fact that 31 years meant nothing to her, then you have reached the true fork in the road which is whether to D or R because you know and accept the real truth of what happened and the real appreciation of what you are risking by giving it a shot vs. walking away.

 

I read your words, but I also look at your actions as reflected in your posts and questions. They don't match your declarations to the contrary. Still, the journey to that fork in the road is a hard one for everyone travelling it. Good luck.

Edited March 10, 2015 by bigman1
omitted sentence

[drifter777]

Do you actually read any of my posts completely?

All of them.

Edited March 10, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[drifter777]

VBM - you might be willing to write all of this off to the OM seducing her but you aren't going to let that destroy 30+ years of marriage. Your wife may be truly remorseful and eager to renew your marriage and spend the rest of her life with you. And you might be just fine leaving it all where it is and sailing into your sunset years with the woman you love. If this is where you are at then let me say I understand and wish you nothing but the best. I hope she never hurts you like this again and the two of you live happily ever after.

 

If ever you begin to be tortured by all of this - if you ever need more truth and remorse and assurance and other things many BH's need to go on - then remember some of what we have said here.