Was the OM or OW a predator in your case?

[2.50 a gallon]

Again, I still see most of the men replying on this thread looking at infidelity from a man's point of view. In so many ways women are so much more different than we men. A quick example, attraction. Men for the most part are attracted by a women's looks, her sexuality. And no doubt women also are attracted by a man's looks, but from there it goes much deeper. She is attracted by his confidence, his way with words, his humor, his out look on life, etc. are far bigger factors in a woman being attracted to a man.

A man as he ages and gets a few gray hairs, can be even more attractive, he is distinguished. I am retired, my beard is all white and I still have younger women in their 40's hitting on me. Last summer I had a 35 year old, very actively pursuing me.

With women it is a different story. they are in their prime from 17 - 22, and in the looks department, it is all down hill. How many men look at a gray haired woman and think she looks distinguished?

[badkarma2013]

Posted By Bigman:"Embrace the ugly truth. All of it. She wanted him and he wanted her and they betrayed you. No mitigation. THAT is what you have to do if you want to truly reconcile. It is also what you must do if you want to end this marriage. If you accept the ugly truth of who she was, who she could still be, what she was capable of doing and could do again, and the fact that 31 years meant nothing to her, then you have reached the true fork in the road which is whether to D or R because you know and accept the real truth of what happened and the real appreciation of what you are risking by giving it a shot vs. walking away.

 

 

VBM...Listen to this post...THIS IS THE GODDA&N UGLY TRUTH for both of us..and most BHs here...Our WWS wanted to have sex with the OM...YES they wanted it..and at some point in their Affair they lied,deceived and betrayed us...Whether a BH stays or files for D...That my friend is the truth....They did it because they wanted another man...PERIOD.....As you said It doesnt matter 1 or 100 times..EA or PA...THEY WANTED ANOTHER MAN and they chose to engage in an Affair ...Badkarma

[DKT3]

No she just made a bad choice. She did not eat me, I'm whole and I'm going to have a great life with or without her. Your mind is made up and I see that I'm not going to change it.

 

You don't have to convince me of anything. I'm not saying your wife is some evil harlot that you should leave by the road. I think your doing what's right for you and I support that. For me divorce was right, we are together now.

 

I also think it foolish to be so confident at THIS POINT in what she will and won't do.

[HereNorThere]

Again, I still see most of the men replying on this thread looking at infidelity from a man's point of view. In so many ways women are so much more different than we men. A quick example, attraction. Men for the most part are attracted by a women's looks, her sexuality. And no doubt women also are attracted by a man's looks, but from there it goes much deeper. She is attracted by his confidence, his way with words, his humor, his out look on life, etc. are far bigger factors in a woman being attracted to a man.

A man as he ages and gets a few gray hairs, can be even more attractive, he is distinguished. I am retired, my beard is all white and I still have younger women in their 40's hitting on me. Last summer I had a 35 year old, very actively pursuing me.

With women it is a different story. they are in their prime from 17 - 22, and in the looks department, it is all down hill. How many men look at a gray haired woman and think she looks distinguished?

 

 

While I totally agree with you, I'm just not sure what you are getting at?

[SawtoothMars]

I see it as a chain of events. When an airplane crashes (or a car) they normally attribute the crash to a sequence of events that took place and at any point if that chain is broken the airplane does not crash.

The first link of the chain in this case was the OM contacted my WW on Facebook. That could have been the end of it. She continued to text. He started complimenting her. She could have said thanks but I'm married. And so it went until they ended up naked. At any point along that path she could have said no thanks. She did not. But the chain of events was started by him. He deserves ALL the blame for that. He could not given her compliment after compliment knowing she was married. But he did. Why did he do that? Because he wanted to F*#k her that's why and he did all this in a calculating way to romance her to get her naked.

That is where the chain started and his compliments and attention greased that chain along. Does anyone really believe that he wanted a long term relationship or anything but sex?

 

VBM, I do understand why you see things this way. I struggled with this question myself. My xWife started doing cocaine at company parties... and then got involved with a coworker who was also using recreationally. I was attending these parties with her, but took on a role at work that required me to be gone overnight a couple days a week. I was oblivious to the drug use... had I noticed I would have kicked up a fit about her going. Had I been there she probably would not have cheated. Had this guy not been recently broken up with his GF he may not have hit on my xWife... ect... ect... ect.

 

What you need to realize is that if not this guy... it would have been another. She jumped on the first guy to hand her a compliment. I know it's hard to come to terms with that... because it means she had most likely been open to an affair for some time.

 

This is an attitude you MUST convey to her! If you allow her to blame shift to the OM and not take responsibility then there is no point in reconciling because it's going to happen again. It is easy for you both to blame the OM. You don't have to love him. However if you continue to stick your head in the sand... maybe a new screen name is in order. Very Broken Ostrich.

[Timshel]

we will agree to disagree then.

 

It doesn't matter if they were married 2 days or 50 years. Betrayal hurts, infidelity hurts.

 

Mrs. VBM is not worse than me because she was married 31 years and i was married 11... or If my affair lasted 8 weeks and someone elses lasted 4 years.....my god

 

it hurts..EA PA ONS LTA

 

ALL WS plunged the knife into their spouses chest and twisted it....we are all guilty

 

Mrs. John Adams and VBM: My parent's marriage of 38 yrs. survived infidelity. They somehow managed to get through it without any of their 5 children being aware; amazing. We were told later, as adults. Anyway, they remained best friends and happily married until my father passed. Shining example to us, they were.

It can be done. Mr. & Mrs. John Adams, your are a remarkable couple. You are moving through and that's what counts. You guys and the VBM's still have each other, you still have something to work on and fight for. My husband has passed and I miss him every day. Please be grateful and best wishes to all of you, no matter what.

[lgspot]

A bit different take...

In my case, the ex was the predator. She chose what she wanted and took it.

She used casual hookups to extreme----without my knowledge, right under my nose..... For years she had been ultimately faithful, but when she reverted to promiscuity-----she was the PREDATOR!!!!

 

As I understand, she is still doing the same thing today years later.

Had a yearlong marriage, but back to the casual dating/hookup....

[Mrs. John Adams]

VBM, I do understand why you see things this way. I struggled with this question myself. My xWife started doing cocaine at company parties... and then got involved with a coworker who was also using recreationally. I was attending these parties with her, but took on a role at work that required me to be gone overnight a couple days a week. I was oblivious to the drug use... had I noticed I would have kicked up a fit about her going. Had I been there she probably would not have cheated. Had this guy not been recently broken up with his GF he may not have hit on my xWife... ect... ect... ect.

 

What you need to realize is that if not this guy... it would have been another. She jumped on the first guy to hand her a compliment. I know it's hard to come to terms with that... because it means she had most likely been open to an affair for some time.

 

This is an attitude you MUST convey to her! If you allow her to blame shift to the OM and not take responsibility then there is no point in reconciling because it's going to happen again. It is easy for you both to blame the OM. You don't have to love him. However if you continue to stick your head in the sand... maybe a new screen name is in order. Very Broken Ostrich.

 

The ww is not the one blame shifting...he has not said she blames the OM. He has said she takes full responsibility.

 

 

You know something that really pisses me off...this idea that if not this guy another guy...she jumped on the first guy that complimented her...sorry wrong! Wrong! Wrong!

I bet thoughout her life she had plenty of compliments...but she was in a different frame of mind...I bet she found other men attractive throughout her life...but this one said the right things at the right time.

How you guys come up with this kind of stuff amazes me.

[SawtoothMars]

The ww is not the one blame shifting...he has not said she blames the OM. He has said she takes full responsibility.

You know something that really pisses me off...this idea that if not this guy another guy...she jumped on the first guy that complimented her...sorry wrong! Wrong! Wrong!

I bet thoughout her life she had plenty of compliments...but she was in a different frame of mind...I bet she found other men attractive throughout her life...but this one said the right things at the right time.

How you guys come up with this kind of stuff amazes me.

 

I'm telling VBM not to blameshift. I can't say I have enough data to know what his WW is saying. So far as I know he has never asked whether she had been looking for an affair or not.

.

The rest of what you are saying is bull*****. She was in the "frame of mind" to cheat... probably for a long bloody time. Maybe she got compliments from 9 ugly guys and chose to screw around with the first hot one. Who cares how many guys hit on her first! The fact is that she wanted an affair in advance of having one. The fact is that she was out looking for an affair otherwise this guy would have been blocked and deleted on facebook long before the sex chat phase began. It doesn't take a philosopher to realize these actions are cheating.

 

She eventually would have found someone else.

[badkarma2013]

The ww is not the one blame shifting...he has not said she blames the OM. He has said she takes full responsibility.

 

 

You know something that really pisses me off...this idea that if not this guy another guy...she jumped on the first guy that complimented her...sorry wrong! Wrong! Wrong!

I bet thoughout her life she had plenty of compliments...but she was in a different frame of mind...I bet she found other men attractive throughout her life...but this one said the right things at the right time.

How you guys come up with this kind of stuff amazes me.

 

 

As Fellini has stated "Attraction and the Opportunity to engage" ..is all one needs to to head down the road to a full blown Affair...

 

As I stated I wanted it to be a complex, complicated process...as I have learned ..Not So..Badkarma

[atreides]

I know the below as a response to DKT but i found the response very interesting and thematic of where you would like to be in all of this.

 

The change is: NOW she sees the bad in people. She had no clue before this that men could be manipulative and deceptive to get sex. But you need to understand she has not used this predator defense AT ANY TIME. She has NOT ONCE blamed the OM.

 

So why are you ???

 

Him being a predator does not excuse her in the least but it lets me see (with an open mind) what really happened.

 

I think this is "pain management 101" I am sorry for all that has happened. But the way i am reading your many posts and threads is anything but the "version of her choice and direction." You have essentially and by your own admission, spoken for your wife as in her defense to rationalize "manipulation" when she herself probably knows better and again as you said does not use it to defend herself.

 

What you want to believe is that she went looking for it because she was (insert your reason here) and that is simply not the case. I have the proof in the texts, it's not a question of her telling the truth about it. He aggressively went after a naive married women and lied to her about his feelings to get sex. That is a predator.

 

Essentially what you are saying is that any direction your wife takes is valueless as in "aggressive" persistence and a "woe is me" for sex is sufficient enough to betray you. It lends itself to question any judgement she makes.

 

Again i am sorry, truly and i am not arguing to say she is "the worst ever" but i think you need to come to terms with a few things, that can give you more options and a better position to truly reconcile if you so choose or not.

Very few seek an affair, but none of us can control whom we are attracted but we can choose what to do about it. Your wife was not manipulated and the OM is not this "predator" despite this "proof" you speak of in texts; which is not about her truth or who said what but the only thing it proves is she chose to proceed with the OM.

It is a great thing she does not defend herself, that is more a character for reconciliation but please don't do it for her.

[badkarma2013]

Posted by Mrs. Adams.."You know something that really pisses me off...this idea that if not this guy another guy...she jumped on the first guy that complimented her...sorry wrong! Wrong! Wrong!

 

 

 

Mrs Adams pls dont get pissed...we are just guys and we know Everything there is to know about women..LOL....Badkarma

[bigman1]

Mrs. JA, I sort of agree with you, but with a difference. I don't think that the OM said "the right things at the right time", like some sort of magic spell. I do agree that in her frame of mind at the time, she was receptive and it could have been anyone to whom she was drawn and was willing to sleep with her.

 

In short, she was ready and willing and she just needed the right guy to be able to cheat. I think the same is true of anyone looking to hook up with anyone. Lots of compliments and come on's, but it is the one person that you decide to hook up with.

 

Still, it is probably a distinction without a difference.

[SawtoothMars]

Mrs. JA, I sort of agree with you, but with a difference. I don't think that the OM said "the right things at the right time", like some sort of magic spell. I do agree that in her frame of mind at the time, she was receptive and it could have been anyone to whom she was drawn and was willing to sleep with her.

In short, she was ready and willing and she just needed the right guy to be able to cheat. I think the same is true of anyone looking to hook up with anyone. Lots of compliments and come on's, but it is the one person that you decide to hook up with.

Still, it is probably a distinction without a difference.

 

No... That is a VERY important distinction. Anyone who tries to portray the OM as a predator is wrong... specifically for this reason.

 

If not this guy... then the next. The sign outside her store said "Open for Business".

[Midwestmissy]

My h was her boss for 5 months before they hopped into bed. His only direct report. Both married, both very aware of the others personal life. He abused his power, no question, I think she maybe saw him as a mentor, even though she's older than he is. She thought he was wealthy, but he treated her to no tell motels and charged crapped to his mother, and she thought it was flattering. He claimed she acted like an obedient puppy, others in the small family business say she threw herself at him in front of everyone and that she was clearly enamored. Regardless, there was a mutual infatuation for a few months, but the predator thing....no. Too neat a reason.

 

Had he told her that she needed to dress better for meetings, or that he didn't want to be seen in public with her, she would have stopped the um orally satisfying part of the relationship. If she had said, "i will leave my husband for you", he would have freaked and stopped grooming her for professional greatness. They both said and did whatever they needed to in order for that groovy mirror of their own awesomeness to continue to reflect back.

 

He now says she was gross and old and unhygienic, and she is still with her husband altho unemployed (and the breadwinner) and taking island vacations alone while her bh stays home with 4 kids and begs me to not trash her reputation because they are so broke. I think she was and is looking for a sugar daddy, but the point is, they both said and did whatever it took, and now they're both publicly humiliated, poorer, and groveling.

 

I think I wanted to think she was the predator, but frankly they just used each other to fill a pathetic void in a cowardly, childish way.

[elaine567]

A bit different take...

In my case, the ex was the predator. She chose what she wanted and took it.

She used casual hookups to extreme----without my knowledge, right under my nose..... For years she had been ultimately faithful, but when she reverted to promiscuity-----she was the PREDATOR!!!!

 

As I understand, she is still doing the same thing today years later.

Had a yearlong marriage, but back to the casual dating/hookup....

 

That is the reason I feel slightly worried for those in reconciliation that want to believe that their spouse was somehow seduced by the predator OM/OW, when the opposite may be the case.*

I have seen the way some married people act around those they feel attracted to. I would not for one second believe they would be the "victim" of a predator; some APs, I guess, are more likely to be the victim of the predator WS.

I wonder how may contrite and remorseful spouses were actually the pursuers and maybe even the predator in the A, but are giving the impression to their BSs that they were "the victim", or they were pursued or it was a 50/50 split?

 

Whilst of course everyone is an adult and has a choice, there are some very vulnerable and highly impressionable people out there, who when fed a diet of "love" and affection and future faking by a WS, can be persuaded to do just about anything.

 

(* I am not suggesting that VBM's wife was a predator, in case any think I am implying she was, I am speaking generally.)

[bigman1]

Midwestmisty, THAT is exactly what I meant!!!!

 

Nothing predatory. Plenty of other available people to choose from. Still, two people with some need/void who crossed each other's path and clicked in a destructive way. Each using the other other, manipulating each other while knowingly and willingly betraying their spouses. Both were open for business.

 

I've seen faithful people be flattered, amused, wooed and all out pursued. Still, if it was not in them to cheat, they did not cheat. Whatever brokenness, insecurity, lust, or otherwise that was needed to cross the line was not in them despite the opportunity.

 

A player looks for someone who is willing to play. So in effect, you have two players. One may be seasoned, but the other is in the game as well.

[fellini]

I agree. We could call my WWS AP a predator, but to what avail? Okay, he intiated physical contact (a huge bear hug) one day. All the women found him attractive. After that hug so did my WW. Then she went after him. His being a predator is not an issue if she has not decided she finds him attractive. Why this one? only she knows. Maybe not even her. It just clicks.

 

It's simply not true to say any man was going to seduce a particular woman. Women are not dogs in heat. To even suggest they would screw the first thing that crosses their path is so unkind it could only come from a completely jaded BS who needs to feel a cheating woman is yesterdays garbage.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The ww is not the one blame shifting...he has not said she blames the OM. He has said she takes full responsibility.

 

 

You know something that really pisses me off...this idea that if not this guy another guy...she jumped on the first guy that complimented her...sorry wrong! Wrong! Wrong!

I bet thoughout her life she had plenty of compliments...but she was in a different frame of mind...I bet she found other men attractive throughout her life...but this one said the right things at the right time.

How you guys come up with this kind of stuff amazes me.

[Mrs. John Adams]

I am certainly glad that some of you know what i was thinking 32 years ago... Thank you so much for setting me straight.

 

I never realized that i had a sign on me that said "open for business"....and i never knew that i would have jumped into bed with anyone that gave me a compliment....(actually i always got a lot of compliments...were those guys trying to take me to bed too?) I never realized that i was looking to have an affair......I thought i was going back to school....not shop for an affair partner. I wonder why i waited until the second semester...hell...i bet i could have jumped somebody's bones the first semester..you know...since i was open for business...maybe i could have made some money on the side.

 

Wow you guys have really enlightened me.

[bigman1]

Mrs. JA, I am not used to sarcasm from you and I am familiar with you from the other site.

 

I think that you over simplify what others have said. I certainly know that I have not said anything like what you just said.

 

I'm not sure what you think when the phrase "open for business" is used. I think it means open to the idea. I have read your story, a number of times. No one suggests that a wayward was looking to sleep with the first person to toss a compliment. Many waywards talk about the fact that compliments are what hooked them, so there is truth to that. A compliment could have just been attention, like your prof. gave you. Again, not the first person, but the one with whom you clicked.

 

Was your goal to cheat or go to school? Clearly, it was to go to school. Of course, you also had an affair with a professor. Were you the first college student to be taken in by a professor and bedded? Heck no. I have a Jr. college prof as an acquaintance...that scenario is rather cliche actually. No judgment on you, just it happens a lot more than you'd think.

 

Still, I don't know how productive it is to rehash your motives from back then. You are looking at them through "reformed" eyes. 32 years is a lifetime ago. I don't profess to know what you were thinking, but I can say this, and I do so very respectfully, but you did cheat on JH with your professor. It didn't just happen. From your posts, I respectfully say that the posts are not too far from the truth. Maybe your truth is different, after all, every event happens with its own set of facts and reasons. The path you took to cheat may have been different, but you ended up at the same destination.

 

Still, this sarcasm from you is new to me. Maybe something else is the issue and this topic is rubbing you the wrong way.

Edited March 11, 2015 by bigman1
spelling

[autumnnight]

After the whole pedophile crap, I think I finally realized that being surrounded by people waiting with baited breath to trash imperfection is not my cup of tea, Mrs. A. Maybe I'm just not bitter enough. Even though I was, in fact, betrayed just over a month ago. I applaud your willingness to hang in there.

[Mrs. John Adams]

No... That is a VERY important distinction. Anyone who tries to portray the OM as a predator is wrong... specifically for this reason.

 

If not this guy... then the next. The sign outside her store said "Open for Business".

 

 

Bigman...go back through this thread and read some of the posts by sawtoothmars that have been made...not about me...but about VBM's ww and you will see why i have my dander up.

 

You are right...i am not usually sarcastic....i apologize for being sarcastic.

You are also right...i am looking back with reformed eyes.... eyes that have cried billions of tears...tears for my beloved for what i did to him...tears for the innocence i can never give back....tears for those i see suffering from the effects of infidelity.

 

I am now very wise and i wish i was still naive and innocent...and i will never be again.

 

I know everyone here is trying to help VBM...and my heart breaks for him....I am 32 years out...and he is just beginning and the road is long and hard .

 

Again I apologize....i can be feisty...lol I may be little but i can be tough....

[carhill]

For the OP, no, the OW wasn't the predator in my case, rather a long-ago fMW whom I specifically sought out and approached. Upon reflection, as a young MW, she certainly might have been a predator, having multiple concurrent affairs because, well, she could, but in the most current iteration none of that was on her. Complete innocence of the predator moniker. Responsibility laid squarely in my lap, no pun intended.

 

I've known my fair share of MW's and have seen how tough reconciliation, long-term, looks like, even from the outside. The most poignant of those iterations died last year; essentially, she internalized things and drank herself to death not long after her H divorced her. Truly sad. Best wishes for things to work out for you in a positive way.

[autumnnight]

Mrs. JA, I am not used to sarcasm from you and I am familiar with you from the other site.

 

I think that you over simplify what others have said. I certainly know that I have not said anything like what you just said.

 

I'm not sure what you think when the phrase "open for business" is used. I think it means open to the idea. I have read your story, a number of times. No one suggests that a wayward was looking to sleep with the first person to toss a compliment. Many waywards talk about the fact that compliments are what hooked them, so there is truth to that. A compliment could have just been attention, like your prof. gave you. Again, not the first person, but the one with whom you clicked.

 

Was your goal to cheat or go to school? Clearly, it was to go to school. Of course, you also had an affair with a professor. Were you the first college student to be taken in by a professor and bedded? Heck no. I have a Jr. college prof as an acquaintance...that scenario is rather cliche actually. No judgment on you, just it happens a lot more than you'd think.

 

Still, I don't know how productive it is to rehash your motives from back then. You are looking at them through "reformed" eyes. 32 years is a lifetime ago. I don't profess to know what you were thinking, but I can say this, and I do so very respectfully, but you did cheat on JH with your professor. It didn't just happen. From your posts, I respectfully say that the posts are not too far from the truth. Maybe your truth is different, after all, every event happens with its own set of facts and reasons. The path you took to cheat may have been different, but you ended up at the same destination.

 

Still, this sarcasm from you is new to me. Maybe something else is the issue and this topic is rubbing you the wrong way.

 

This is a very interesting and illuminating post.

[road]

People are getting themselves stuck to the fact that VBM's WW said yes to the OM's advances and had sex with him.

 

 

It blinds them to how the OM was a predator and he had the skills to turn a wife into a WW.

 

 

VBM's WW is remorseful and regrets what she did. So stop riding VBM. He is right to think and feel as he does.

 

 

His WW is showing the potential to recover their marriage.

 

 

The time is now to support VBM or leave him alone.