Was the OM or OW a predator in your case?

[elaine567]

Normally in a relationship there doesn't need to be a reason for it to start, two people like each other, they meet up... Simples.

 

For a married person to embark on an A, there is a hurdle to get over, and that it seems to me, often involves a vulnerable person somewhere.

The WS is vulnerable due to personal issues or the state of their marriage, the AP is vulnerable due to personal issues or the state of their marriage.

That vulnerability can be exploited by true predators sure, but it can also be a means for a married person to find some way of leaping that hurdle.

It may be a way of excusing their behaviour "I was vulnerable and he/she took advantage of the situation" or a way of gaining access to a person who may not normally want to get involved with married people " he/she was vulnerable, so I used it to my advantage".

 

It boils down to.

"He/she was upset, they needed comforted and one thing led to another and I forgot my marriage vows"

"I was upset he/she comforted me and one thing led to another and I forgot my marriage vows"

 

It is a way of sweetening the pill for themselves and for other people, "I am basically a very nice person, I help people or I am a victim; I am NOT just a lying, scheming cheater."

 

A much better excuse than saying to the BS, "We couldn't keep our hands off each other, we had such a deep emotional connection too, and one thing led to another."

[Mrs. John Adams]

Elaine....i think you will find those WS who understand remorse will indeed say I am a lying scheming cheater....

 

it isn't pretty...no matter which angle you look at it. It is ugly....and it is the one thing that is very difficult for a ws to admit.

 

I despise knowing that i am a lying scheming cheater. I don't ever forget it....

[cocorico]

The XBW also decided I must be predatory. After all, I knew he was M....

 

But I guess we must have different understandings of the word, then. To me, a predator implies prey - that one (predator) takes advantage of the other (prey), which implies a situation of severe power differentials, or some other situation leading to an absence of (or inability to give) informed consent. To her, it meant - he was mine, therefore he lacked the agency to give consent because I did not give him permission. Which is an attitude I've seen on here, too - that because someone is M, they then are somehow denied agency over their own lives, and their own choices are nullified without the permission of their spouse.

[autumnnight]

Elaine....i think you will find those WS who understand remorse will indeed say I am a lying scheming cheater....

 

it isn't pretty...no matter which angle you look at it. It is ugly....and it is the one thing that is very difficult for a ws to admit.

 

I despise knowing that i am a lying scheming cheater. I don't ever forget it....

 

I just needed to fix the <bolded> above, <changing 'am' to 'was'>

 

I promise I'm not stalking you.

Edited March 11, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Retain quote continuity

[beach]

Normally in a relationship there doesn't need to be a reason for it to start, two people like each other, they meet up... Simples.

 

For a married person to embark on an A, there is a hurdle to get over, and that it seems to me, often involves a vulnerable person somewhere.

The WS is vulnerable due to personal issues or the state of their marriage, the AP is vulnerable due to personal issues or the state of their marriage.

That vulnerability can be exploited by true predators sure, but it can also be a means for a married person to find some way of leaping that hurdle.

It may be a way of excusing their behaviour "I was vulnerable and he/she took advantage of the situation" or a way of gaining access to a person who may not normally want to get involved with married people " he/she was vulnerable, so I used it to my advantage".

 

It boils down to.

"He/she was upset, they needed comforted and one thing led to another and I forgot my marriage vows"

"I was upset he/she comforted me and one thing led to another and I forgot my marriage vows"

 

It is a way of sweetening the pill for themselves and for other people, "I am basically a very nice person, I help people or I am a victim; I am NOT just a lying, scheming cheater."

 

A much better excuse than saying to the BS, "We couldn't keep our hands off each other, we had such a deep emotional connection too, and one thing led to another."

 

I do agree that many affairs get started because one person plays the "poor me" card. But on the flip side another person thinks they have that strong desire to be the "rescuer".

 

Looks like a codependent relationship when I write it out that way.

 

Interesting - I really haven't given that much thought until now.

 

I suppose being aware of any person throwing all their crap onto a table is suspect... And why depend on anyone else to "fix it" FOR them? And - as if an affair would fix anything...

[DivorcedDad123]

This situation,like many affairs, is an example of the Karpman drama triangle.

For the triangle to work,you must have a villain(the ex AP), a victim (the WS),and a rescuer (usually the BS).

It's difficult removing oneself from this triangle. It's common in every day interactions. The villain boss, the victim employee, and the rescuer (co worker, SO, another manager,etc.,,) is another example.

When you remove yourself from this triangle, you remove yourself from the drama.

OP,you're still seeing the ex AP as the villain. You're psychologically profiling him to make him the bad guy. This in turn makes you the rescuer,and your W the victim. You can say she's owned all of her part,but by still projecting him as the villain, you're still making her(or yourself) the victim.

This thinking keeps one in constant thought process. Processing everything that happened,why,who,where,etc.,, It's unhealthy in the long run.

To get off of this triangle, you just have to accept that "it is", and that you had and have no control over either one of them. Only yourself.

Try doing this in everyday interactions as well. You'll be far removed from drama. Keep in mind that the roles can, and will, constantly change. In one situation you may the villain, in another the victim.

Ask your IC about this. I imagine they are well versed in it.

[beach]

This situation,like many affairs, is an example of the Karpman drama triangle.

For the triangle to work,you must have a villain(the ex AP), a victim (the WS),and a rescuer (usually the BS).

It's difficult removing oneself from this triangle. It's common in every day interactions. The villain boss, the victim employee, and the rescuer (co worker, SO, another manager,etc.,,) is another example.

When you remove yourself from this triangle, you remove yourself from the drama.

OP,you're still seeing the ex AP as the villain. You're psychologically profiling him to make him the bad guy. This in turn makes you the rescuer,and your W the victim. You can say she's owned all of her part,but by still projecting him as the villain, you're still making her(or yourself) the victim.

This thinking keeps one in constant thought process. Processing everything that happened,why,who,where,etc.,, It's unhealthy in the long run.

To get off of this triangle, you just have to accept that "it is", and that you had and have no control over either one of them. Only yourself.

Try doing this in everyday interactions as well. You'll be far removed from drama. Keep in mind that the roles can, and will, constantly change. In one situation you may the villain, in another the victim.

Ask your IC about this. I imagine they are well versed in it.

 

But when the BS is unknowing they truly are the victim.

 

Upon actually "knowing" one would think they become angry - very angry at the main person causing them harm! This would be their spouse (not necessarily the AP).

 

And when they don't - that is when it baffles me...

[SawtoothMars]

I don't think anyone can question that there is plenty of blame to go around in an affair.

There are PREDATORS tho....

Years ago I was a member of a large wedding party. There was a guy who was also a member I didn't know. Was an old friend of the groom and groom's family. Worked for the accounting firm that did family's business, etc...

At the bachelor party and after the rehearsal dinner there was a lot of drinking. I heard this guy make numerous shady and off color comments about the bride and how he would like to get in her pants, etc... Now he had never met the bride-to-be until just before the wedding since she was from "out of town."

I thought then that the comments were weird.

I noticed he kept his eyes on her every time she was around.

Fast forward about 10 years and the marriage is over.

Seems accountant boy and bride had an affair....

There is not a doubt in my mind that the seeds of an affair (getting in bride's pants) were planted in this guy's mind from day one and, he plotted and planned for it all those years.

I don't know the full details, but I'd wager a goodly amount this guy schemed, waited, and pounced.....

Sure she could have said no. Yet a guy with the patience and persistence to wait close to ten years is devious....

And a PREDATOR!

Needless to say the bride was devastated and didn't really know what had hit her....

 

Look... When we get married people don't stop trying to get with us. We know that going into it.

 

It just takes one word, two letters to prevent an affair. NO. That's it... tell the other person NO... tell yourself NO.

 

Hey maybe this guy waited around for 10 years to get an opportunity. Does that matter? Not a bit. OM/OW are not predators.

[Josmatjes]

1. GLIB and SUPERFICIAL CHARM

He knew all the right things to say and text.

2. GRANDIOSE SELF-WORTH

Very high opinion of himself, stated many times in texts, yet has had over a dozen different employers the past few years.

3. NEED FOR STIMULATION or PRONENESS TO BOREDOM

I assume seducing my wife was him getting his stimulation, bored of his one year marriage?

4. PATHOLOGICAL LYING

Background check showed many things he said to my WW were not true

5. CONNING AND MANIPULATIVENESS

Manipulated her into meeting to talk, then aggressively went for sex

6. LACK OF REMORSE OR GUILT

Has shown no remorse or guilt since being caught

7. SHALLOW AFFECT

Don't know

8. CALLOUSNESS and LACK OF EMPATHY

obvious

 

9. PARASITIC LIFESTYLE

His wife makes most of the money, he has been unemployed often

10. POOR BEHAVIORAL CONTROLS

obvious / arrested for DWI/assault

 

11. PROMISCUOUS SEXUAL BEHAVIOR

obvious

 

12. EARLY BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS

I have his rap sheet, his criminal activity goes back to teen years.

13. LACK OF REALISTIC, LONG-TERM GOALS

Has had no success in life, no assets, does not own home

14. IMPULSIVITY

Don't know?

15. IRRESPONSIBILITY

Many jobs, has been sued 3 times by employers, sued by IRS for back taxes

16. FAILURE TO ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY FOR OWN ACTIONS

I assume that is why he has had so many jobs and been sued

 

17. MANY SHORT-TERM MARITAL RELATIONSHIPS

divorced three times, last one only married a year and cheating

18. JUVENILE DELINQUENCY

Has criminal history going back to teen years

 

19. REVOCATION OF CONDITION RELEASE

Don't know.

 

20. CRIMINAL VERSATILITY

 

Long criminal history including a sexual assault on a minor and adult in his early 20's and he served six years for those.

 

Of course my wife only saw the good side of him and did not know any of this(and still does not).

 

 

Wow! This kinda just described my xmm. I actually knew a few of these things but found out about some others after it was over. I actually feel bad for him, that he has to search for something missing in his own life by stealing it from another.

My mm had me so fooled yet my husband saw it immediately. I should of trusted my husbands judgement better. I'm not saying I'm innocent but if he had layed out his cards right away,I might have folded. They are good at what they do. For me what hurts is that we were friends for years and to be conned like that just freakin kills me!

[sinatraverdi]

I don't understand why there is such a strong need to cast the cheating spouse as the victim and the affair partner as the predator. That's the real issue here. And even if it's sometimes true, it's rather obvious that VBN's spouse was the instigator of her affair(s). Of course, to admit that would force VBN to also admit that his wife is "damaged goods" in a way he just isn't able to accept. His ego is just too big for that.

[Josmatjes]

Look... When we get married people don't stop trying to get with us. We know that going into it.

 

It just takes one word, two letters to prevent an affair. NO. That's it... tell the other person NO... tell yourself NO.

 

Hey maybe this guy waited around for 10 years to get an opportunity. Does that matter? Not a bit. OM/OW are not predators.

 

My xmm was a predator and he watched me and waited for years. I didn't realize it until it was over and I went back in my memory.he was always around,stopping over pretending to want to ralk to my h.showed up at places i was. Even the food store.not all OM and ow are predators. But mine was and I hate him with a passion and I thank god every day that my husband forgives me and we are moving on from this nightmare forever...

[sinatraverdi]

Wow! This kinda just described my xmm. I actually knew a few of these things but found out about some others after it was over. I actually feel bad for him, that he has to search for something missing in his own life by stealing it from another.

My mm had me so fooled yet my husband saw it immediately. I should of trusted my husbands judgement better. I'm not saying I'm innocent but if he had layed out his cards right away,I might have folded. They are good at what they do. For me what hurts is that we were friends for years and to be conned like that just freakin kills me!

 

Yes but if that applies to the Om of VBN's wife then it also means not that he is a predator but that his wife is a low class cheater who enjoys having extramarital sex with sociopaths ("bad boys").

[Mrs. John Adams]

I just needed to fix the <bolded> above, <changing 'am' to 'was'>

 

I promise I'm not stalking you.

 

Lol...well I stalk you! So turn abouts is fair play!

 

And I like what you fixed.....and I am no longer a cheater....I am a reformed cheater.

[sinatraverdi]

My xmm was a predator and he watched me and waited for years. I didn't realize it until it was over and I went back in my memory.he was always around,stopping over pretending to want to ralk to my h.showed up at places i was. Even the food store.not all OM and ow are predators. But mine was and I hate him with a passion and I thank god every day that my husband forgives me and we are moving on from this nightmare forever...

 

So you saw him stalking you in the produce aisle and that meant you were forced to have sex with him? I've gone grocery shopping lots of times and that has never happened.

[stillafool]

OM/OW preys on the WS like the WS preys on the BS.

 

Exactly! There are no innocent victims here. These are grown people that realize the choices they are making.

[autumnnight]

But when the BS is unknowing they truly are the victim.

 

Upon actually "knowing" one would think they become angry - very angry at the main person causing them harm! This would be their spouse (not necessarily the AP).

 

And when they don't - that is when it baffles me...

 

Again....it IS possible to be angry with a spouse AND the AP. I do not understand why this is hard to understand.

[autumnnight]

Exactly! There are no innocent victims here. These are grown people that realize the choices they are making.

 

And AGAIN again....where has VBM said that his wife was an innocent victim? Honestly, I am getting elsewhere deja vu here....

[carhill]

IME, the casting impetuses generally rest within the emotional attachments of the persons offering opinions as to who's who and what's what. Generally, in associations, it's normal for people to align with those they have attachments to and against the outside enemies in the world. When push comes to shove, the outsiders with whom there is little to no history and no emotional attachment are judged and eschewed in preference of and deference to the person or persons whom one likes or loves or has investment in or some combination of those. This practice can be applied generally across the entire range of human relationships, even to otherwise strangers 'circling the wagons' to fight off a perceived common enemy.

 

One aspect is view of self. If one sides against, or adopts a neutral to adversarial position relative to a person they have invested in, they then hold a mirror up to themselves, their ability to perceive and judge and make healthy decisions, or not. They stare potential failure right in the mirror, failure which can be debilitating to some. If fear of failure is strong, it can become a motivator to decision making and forming perspectives based upon the fear.

 

We worked a lot of this stuff in MC and I found the work on personal responsibility (as opposed to 'blame') to be very productive, from the perspective of being a WS. Sure, in every interaction a wide range of factors exist but in the final analysis we are each solely responsible for our own actions and perspectives. One can be vulnerable, sure, but is still responsible for actions taken while vulnerable. Vulnerability can be a reason but does not dismiss responsibility. Neither does overt acts of another dismiss responsibility, even if analyzed as 'reasons'. That can be a difficult mirror to look into.

[road]

I just needed to fix the <bolded> above, <changing 'am' to 'was'>

 

I promise I'm not stalking you.

 

 

 

There was no need to edit.

 

No need to hit the like button.

 

Was, refers to past tense. As WS had an affair.

 

Am, refers to present tense. As WS is having an affair.

 

 

Evidently people can not see the intended letter in front of WW/WH.

 

What letter?

 

The letter "F" as in former.

 

As in, FWW, former wayward wife, FWH.

 

To use a verb to indicate past tense when dealing with the presence is wrong.

Edited March 11, 2015 by road

[autumnnight]

There was no need to edit.

 

No need to hit the like button.

 

Was, refers to past tense. As WS had an affair.

 

Am, refers to present tense. As WS is having an affair.

 

 

Evidently people can not see the intended letter in front of WW/WH.

 

What letter?

 

The letter "F" as in former.

 

As in, FWW, former wayward wife, FWH.

 

To use a verb to indicate past tense when dealing with the presence is wrong.

 

Actually, the original poster of that quote, who has not been unfaithful for 32 years, said "am." 32 years ago is not "am." I think it WAS necessary because so many other people think was is always and forever am, and they are wrong. Period.

[stillafool]

To say his WW had the sign up open for business to potential OM is ridiculous.

 

 

To say she was hot to trot in advance without proof is pure speculation. I have not seen anything to indicate this.

 

 

We do not know and most likely will never know how many OM pursued his WW. Whether they had a better game or not. Or if his WW was at a low point in her life that made her weak enough for this OM.

 

For that matter we do not know what was going on in OMs life that made him weak enough to go for WW. This goes both ways as far as I'm concerned. For some reason people around here like to give women an "out" in these cases. They both are guilty and no one is more innocent than the other.

[road]

For that matter we do not know what was going on in OMs life that made him weak enough to go for WW. This goes both ways as far as I'm concerned. For some reason people around here like to give women an "out" in these cases. They both are guilty and no one is more innocent than the other.

 

The OM was a predator. You can not psycho babble that away. So the WW was wrong to have an affair. Does not take away that the OM was a predator.

[SawtoothMars]

My xmm was a predator and he watched me and waited for years. I didn't realize it until it was over and I went back in my memory.he was always around,stopping over pretending to want to ralk to my h.showed up at places i was. Even the food store.not all OM and ow are predators. But mine was and I hate him with a passion and I thank god every day that my husband forgives me and we are moving on from this nightmare forever...

 

I don't condone blaming other people for your own poor choices.

 

Here is the deal... and I hope VBM gets this. IF you or any other person gets themselves into an affair by their own choice... that also means it will be their own choice moving forward that prevents the next affair. Do you see this?

 

The world is filled with guys that would love to jump into bed with you. That will be true even when you are 90. If a guy can just stalk you the right way... say or do the right things... or wait for the right time... then you have no control over whether this happens again or not.

 

So, the good news is that this guy wasn't really a predator, he was an opportunist who merely took advantage of your bad choice. That means you control what happens in the future. That means you can choose to be faithful.

[Rainbowlove]

In the final analysis we are each solely responsible for our own actions and perspectives. One can be vulnerable, sure, but is still responsible for actions taken while vulnerable. Vulnerability can be a reason but does not dismiss responsibility. Neither does overt acts of another dismiss responsibility, even if analyzed as 'reasons'. That can be a difficult mirror to look into.

 

I totally agree with all of this.

[elaine567]

I do agree that many affairs get started because one person plays the "poor me" card. But on the flip side another person thinks they have that strong desire to be the "rescuer".

 

Looks like a codependent relationship when I write it out that way.

 

Interesting - I really haven't given that much thought until now.

 

I suppose being aware of any person throwing all their crap onto a table is suspect... And why depend on anyone else to "fix it" FOR them? And - as if an affair would fix anything...

 

I believe, in some cases, the married person is a "vulnerable" person with an agenda, the married person is a "rescuer" with an agenda.

Both use the "vulnerable" situation, to get over the hurdle of being married, in order to start a relationship with another person.

 

If they were feeling "vulnerable" why would a married person choose to lean on a member of the opposite sex, they were somewhat attracted to?

Why would a married person choose to "rescue" a "vulnerable" member of the opposite sex, they were somewhat attracted to?

 

I don't think it is really about "fixing" anything.