miss-alex Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Dear forum members, I have one interesting question for you and I am hoping to get some public input into the whole situation...I am unsure if my concerns are "legitimate" or if I am just overthinking things. So, for the past 6 months, I have been in a wonderful relationship and we are now engaged (I am 30, he is 31). We are not rushing into marriage, but we both knew each other for years and now it feels like the right thing to do. The problem is that our jobs kind of clash. He is a judge (we are in Europe, so it's an appointment for life, no elections). I am a politician working in the presidential circles and planning to run for govt office next spring. If I get elected (seems quite likely right now), I would end up either in the Parliament as an MP or be "promoted" into the executive (to work for some of the ministries). I am having concerns that marrying me would practically damage his professional position. I am having these crazy thoughts, like telling him "Look, I think we should just break up because of the Constitution, you know? You are in the judiciary, I am soon-to-be in the executive /the legislative and these are not supposed to mix." I also fear that our colleagues and the tabloids will find out and everybody will think it is hugely inappropriate. I do not fear about myself, I am not supposed to be impartial, but he will be "the husband of that right-wing politician." Everybody would be like: How is he supposed to be completely impartial and independent and apolitical as a judge if his wife is a politician for this-and-this party?! Also, at home we would be discussing his cases or my political work, I cannot imagine not to...we both have PhDs and teach and publish, so discussing law and politics is just something we greatly enjoy doing together and I cannot imagine not talking about it with someone I love because of conflict of interest. We talked about this once. He dismissed all my concerns, said he loves me and wants to marry me and that nothing will get in the way. But in our jobs, professional ethics is a huge thing (also for both of us personally). And suddenly, I don't know how to reconcile my/his career and our upcoming marriage...I don't see a way out, but I am hoping that some of you here will help me find it. Link to post Share on other sites
carhill Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 How would you characterize your handling, as a couple, presuming you've faced such challenges, of potential professional conflicts of interest so far? Generally, appropriate boundaries between professional and personal life can mitigate or eliminate such real issues. Perceived, as in tongues wagging? Well, tongues wag. Part of life in the public eye. IME, it's how people handle such issues which defines them. A couple with clear boundaries and a united method of interacting in such circumstances will be nearly impenetrable. You don't have to discuss his court cases or your political work. That's a choice. Can you? Sure. Decide on your boundaries and execute. A J.D./PhD comes with substantial critical thinking skills. You can work this out. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author miss-alex Posted March 10, 2015 Author Share Posted March 10, 2015 We've only been together for 6 months, so we only had one serious conflict and in that case, he recused/disqualified himself. He also tries to avoid administrative law cases (involving the state), but what I am more worried about is that he will be given a political label if we marry. Right now, not many people know we are together, but our wedding date is just a week after the planned appointment of the new govt that I will most likely be in. I am officially non-partisan, but the Prime Minister is not and the cabinet will get the "stamp" of his political partisanship (and so will I). So for my husband, being with me might be against the Code of Judicial Ethics in the country, which states that "A judge shall ensure that his/her private life does not influence the public view of his/her impartiality and competence." Practically, would this mean that he cannot go with me to the annual Ball hosted by the govt? That he cannot be seen in my Ministry or in the Govt Office? I know we need boundaries, I just have little clue as to where to start in setting them up. Link to post Share on other sites
minimariah Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 is quitting or changing your jobs something the two of you would consider doing? i think you're overreacting a little. i'm from Europe, too. & i'm pretty sure your case is not the 1st one or unique. Link to post Share on other sites
Author miss-alex Posted March 10, 2015 Author Share Posted March 10, 2015 is quitting or changing your jobs something the two of you would consider doing? i think you're overreacting a little. i'm from Europe, too. & i'm pretty sure your case is not the 1st one or unique. Well, changing jobs for him is not an option. For me, maybe. I know it is an option, but I have been avoiding it because I don't want to do it. I worked in diplomacy previously, but that is no longer an option because we both want to settle down. I could teach, of course, but I do not enjoy it very much. I was looking for similar couples actually, but only found some cases in the US (Catherine Curran O'Malley, Anne Holton - both judges whose husbands were state governors), but I am not that familiar with their judicial system and the links to the legislative/executive branches. Anyways, it seems to work for them and honestly, I was surprised how little public concern there was about these relationships. Link to post Share on other sites
MuddyFootprints Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 No, you are not over thinking things. It has the potential to be a major conflict and career breaker for the both of you. I'm sure you've consulted your own party and their legal team? They would be the best ones to give you guidance and direction. Link to post Share on other sites
PegNosePete Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 It would make sense to consult a specialist lawyer with your concerns. Even if they say there's no problem, at least you can tell future critics that you took legal advice prior to marriage regarding conflicts of interests, and that it's all been checked and OK'd. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
MissBee Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 No, you are not over thinking things. It has the potential to be a major conflict and career breaker for the both of you. I'm sure you've consulted your own party and their legal team? They would be the best ones to give you guidance and direction. I agree that this is definitely a major potential conflict that matters. I second the idea of running this by perhaps a trusted person in your circle who might have more concrete and relevant advice, who is in the same field and who may know of other couples or can just offer more relevant words of advice. Link to post Share on other sites
writergal Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 (edited) OP, if you're both in love and want to get married, don't let your career choices get in the way. That's not a good reason to end a relationship. In fact, that seems like an extremely shallow perspective. You can't control the public's perception of either of you anyways, no matter how many experts you consult. People will judge you regardless of who you are married to. But, if public perception is more important to you than what your own fiancé thinks of you, then yes, you should break up. Or, put a publicist on retainer and when rumors spread about either of you, send out a press release. I'm being facetious of course, but it seems like you want to have 100% control over the public's perception of you and your fiancé when you marry and that's just not possible. It's not realistic. And it shows skewed values. Edited March 12, 2015 by writergal 2 Link to post Share on other sites
badpenny Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Tony Blair (EX UK Prime Minister) has a wife, Cherie, who is heavily embroiled in Law. I don't think they ever had a situation arise which caused any conflict AFAIK. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author miss-alex Posted March 12, 2015 Author Share Posted March 12, 2015 Thank you all for advice. I think you have a point - no matter what the expert opinion is, the public will judge us regardless. We've been told by the Judicial Ethics Committtee that as long as we avoid publicly commenting on each other's jobs and my fiancé will not handle administrative law cases, then we should be fine (but there will be gossip anways). Although the Committee was not very clear about him attending my political events (balls, dinners, etc.) And thanks for pointing out Cherie Blair! I noticed that she was using her maiden name professionally, so that is one good solution (I mean, everyone knows who Cherie Blair is, but Cherie Booth? not so much). Using my maiden surname professionally and my husband's surname everywhere else may help to keep our professional identities more separate. Link to post Share on other sites
mrs rubble Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 Honestly the public really don't care too much what Judges or politicians do unless they muck up! Link to post Share on other sites
d0nnivain Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 Read the code of judicial conduct. It will give you guidance. If it does not he can request an advisory opinion about what to do & any boundaries. You are not the 1st or last couple to face this. Probably what will have to happen if a law you write as a member of Parliament comes before him on a constitutional challenge, he will have to recuse himself. No big deal. Link to post Share on other sites
preraph Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 Regardless of how it's presented, everyone knows judges lean one way or the other. They had party affiliation at some point in their life. In the US, everyone knows which Supreme Court judges are voting at the will of the Republican party, that's for sure. Since your relationship is still young, I advise that you don't make any decisions for another year. See what shakes out for you careerwise. Decide which is more important to you, him or career. At six months, I know it's heady, but if you're passionate about your career, that is your dream and you shouldn't set it aside lightly. It's really too soon to decide to play house. Another year will give you an entirely new perspective. Link to post Share on other sites
Radu Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 Well, changing jobs for him is not an option. For me, maybe. I know it is an option, but I have been avoiding it because I don't want to do it. I worked in diplomacy previously, but that is no longer an option because we both want to settle down. I could teach, of course, but I do not enjoy it very much. I was looking for similar couples actually, but only found some cases in the US (Catherine Curran O'Malley, Anne Holton - both judges whose husbands were state governors), but I am not that familiar with their judicial system and the links to the legislative/executive branches. Anyways, it seems to work for them and honestly, I was surprised how little public concern there was about these relationships. It's not the same ... in their case they get elected/appointed. If you are in the area i think you are in ... then we are talking Roman Law and this means that he went to a professional course of several yrs to become a judge. They do special courses to shape themselves to be as impartial and neutral as possible. For the others ... in this system ... judges cannot affiliate to one party or another. The law is interpreted strictly and exceptions even more strictly. Judges are actually not allowed to be part of a party or another. Another option is for him to move to another Tribunal ... outside of the city you will be working in. This will increase both of your commutes. Link to post Share on other sites
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