The "damsel in distress": Do men like assisting women?

[autumnnight]

it's sorta like letting the air out of all your cars tires so that the man you are interested in can come and change them (while seeing your new dress and hairdo)

 

I've never met a woman who does this. I know you were kidding, but apparently some peoople really think that. I'm not really understanding the extreme either oor here. Either you are tough enough to lurk alone in dark alleys or yoou must be a feeble hanky waving scardd cat? Kinda ridiculous.

[Anela]

I'm naturally the opposite. I try my darndest to NOT create opportunities where someone will have to help me, because then I feel like a helpless idiot for not being able to do something

 

Do you help other people, when they need it? If so, then you shouldn't feel bad when someone extends you the same courtesy.

[alphamale]

I've never met a woman who does this. I know you were kidding,

:laugh:

[autumnnight]

:laugh:

 

OK OK....when I was in college this completely amazing so handsome I could barely breathe guy was grilling the two of us steaks, and I got out a new bottle of sauce. I had barely even tried to open it when he came up all testosterony and said, "Want me to open that?" I have no doubt I could have opened that, but he stood really close, so I let him open it so that I could grip the counter to keep from passing out....

 

 

bwahahahahahaha

 

 

Actually that is true.

[hotpotato]

My curiosity is highly piqued by this. Could you elaborate, please?

 

Like simple everyday things, like lifting something heavy. Heres an everyday example. I had to go to lowes and buy 50lb sandbags. Most women will ask for a man to help. See, no slashing of tires necessary.

 

At the gym I see please help me with x equipment. Its a very easy way to get a mans atrention.

Edited March 18, 2015 by hotpotato

[Weezy1973]

To all you women saying that being "above average" is what's keeping men away from you...you're completely out to lunch.

 

Just Google "Matching Phenomenon". There is so much research on this. Couples match up in looks, socioeconomic status, education levels and IQ (essentially everything you've been talking about being "above average" in). Gobs and gobs of research and evidence to support it.

 

Two things that are vital to quality relationships though (and some of you "strong" women might be lacking these) are the strength to be vulnerable and an ability to compromise. As a man, those are two things that were very important when looking for a partner. And I found it.

 

IQ, earning potential, looks, etc. are really very meaningless when it comes to relationships...

[Taramere]

I do take interest in people in real life.

 

I don't like talking about myself IRL. I am not a topic of conversation unless others ask a specific question, in which case I give an answer and then move on.

 

But I'm very interested in what my friends and acquaintances have to say. I'm a very good listener, and others come to me VERY often for advice and just to talk to.

 

Here though? Well, sure it sounds selfish, but I'm here for me. I'm certainly fond of a fair few folks here but when it comes down to it, I'm here for me, not for everyone else. So, yes, I'm going to talk about ME, ask questions that I feel will benefit ME, and browse threads that I feel will be useful for ME.

 

Because it it weren't for my desire to find answers for myself, I wouldn't have ever come here, and I wouldn't still be here. And quite frankly, I don't have much to offer others in terms of advice. I'm not particularly knowledgeable or useful to others in the love department.

 

I'm not here for anyone else. Sorry.

 

I'm gathering from your response that you believe I'm way off the mark in my assessment. That's fine. I don't know you in real life. Like anybody else, I can only get instincts about people from the way they post and those instincts might not always be correct. I suppose the difficulty is that if you're not participating on the board in a way that gives people a broad sense of who you are as a person then it's hard to advise in any useful way. You will just end up getting more and more of the generic "well, men like this or men like that" advice.

 

There are men out there who are show rather than tell. They won't necessarily tell you what things they're good at. To know, you actually have to pay a bit of attention to them. To take an interest in them and figure out what their strengths and weaknesses are. Then, if and when you finally do ask them for help it will be in an area they have a particular skill. You'll be paying him the genuine compliment of having noticed something he's particularly good at.

 

You've said at the start that you're very independent and that indicates you can turn your hand to anything. Okay, but if a man can do it better because he is particularly skilled in that area (and is stronger) then is there anything wrong with asking him for help because "you're better than me at this"? If he honestly is better than you at that task, it's not so much being an eyelash fluttering damsel in distress than simply being honest and recognising your respective strengths and weaknesses. I think the negative response from a man is more likely to come if you're just asking as part of an attention getting device rather than because you genuinely recognise the areas he's better equipped to manage.

[Popsicle]

I love men who like to help. I would never abuse it. An unhelpful man would not be as attractive.

[PinkInTheLimo]

To all you women saying that being "above average" is what's keeping men away from you...you're completely out to lunch.

 

Just Google "Matching Phenomenon". There is so much research on this. Couples match up in looks, socioeconomic status, education levels and IQ (essentially everything you've been talking about being "above average" in). Gobs and gobs of research and evidence to support it.

 

Two things that are vital to quality relationships though (and some of you "strong" women might be lacking these) are the strength to be vulnerable and an ability to compromise. As a man, those are two things that were very important when looking for a partner. And I found it.

 

IQ, earning potential, looks, etc. are really very meaningless when it comes to relationships...

 

Your last paragraph contradicts your second one...

 

I actually know examples of both situations: men with women who are their equal when it comes to socio-economic status, education, IQ and men with women who are not their equal: lower education, not financially independent.

In the first case I see that these men are emancipated. They help with household chores and take care of the kids. Does not matter that they have a high socioeconomic status. This is a pattern that I see in younger people. In the latter case traditional gender roles. People my age (50) or older.

 

In online dating where I get contacted by guys my age are older I notice that the men still have a very traditional view on gender roles. Which turns me off and thus prevents me of showing my sweeter soft side. I need to feel that a guy is emancipated before I will show any vulnerability. Whereas the damsel in distress type will show her vulnerability as her first card. That does not mean she is a better partner.

[hotpotato]

To all you women saying that being "above average" is what's keeping men away from you...you're completely out to lunch.

 

Just Google "Matching Phenomenon". There is so much research on this. Couples match up in looks, socioeconomic status, education levels and IQ (essentially everything you've been talking about being "above average" in). Gobs and gobs of research and evidence to support it.

 

Two things that are vital to quality relationships though (and some of you "strong" women might be lacking these) are the strength to be vulnerable and an ability to compromise. As a man, those are two things that were very important when looking for a partner. And I found it.

 

IQ, earning potential, looks, etc. are really very meaningless when it comes to relationships...

 

So women need to be vulnerable and iq doesn't matter. You say people match up with iq then you say iq does't matter but doesn't it matter if people are matching up in iq? People match up in iq and looks but iq and looks are meaningless?

 

Well, it's not true, or rather people have different ideas of looks they value. For example, many bodybuilder men are happy with women who have average bodies or even bbws. That's not a match in the eyes of many, but bodybuilder dudes don't mind. However, if a woman's muscular usually she has a man who is obviously beefier than her.

 

 

But anyways, yes, I've been told i'm intimidating so whatever. Somehow people who've never been a "strong" woman know what it's like to be a strong woman. Try having dudes negatively compare themselves to you, then run off to someone more average. Yup.

[thefooloftheyear]

So women need to be vulnerable and iq doesn't matter. You say people match up with iq then you say iq does't matter but doesn't it matter if people are matching up in iq? People match up in iq and looks but iq and looks are meaningless?

 

Well, it's not true, or rather people have different ideas of looks they value. For example, many bodybuilder men are happy with women who have average bodies or even bbws. That's not a match in the eyes of many, but bodybuilder dudes don't mind. However, if a woman's muscular usually she has a man who is obviously beefier than her.

 

 

But anyways, yes, I've been told i'm intimidating so whatever. Somehow people who've never been a "strong" woman know what it's like to be a strong woman. Try having dudes negatively compare themselves to you, then run off to someone more average. Yup.

 

 

Maybe they were lying to you to not hurt your feelings..No one ever really tells the other person the truth when they dump them...Its about the same as "its not you, its me" garbage..Truth is you will likely never know..

 

Its been said many times on this thread....Im not necessarily saying this is true of you, but too many people have a false sense of their own awesomeness..and as a result cant seem to grasp the fact that one womans junk might be another mans jewel...

 

And I disagree with your statement about mega fit bodybuilder type men going for some average looking couch potato...Been around these types my whole life and never once seen anything as you describe..Maybe you saw one and assumed everyone is like this..

 

TFY

[autumnnight]

I think most of the men I know would get tired of a perpetual damsel in distress. However, they can spot a woman with a chip on her shoulder, and that, from what I have gathered, ids even less attractive. Sort of like the way most women don't want to date a man who has a chip on his shoulder about women. I have also said several male friends say that they are put off by a woman who disses other women. I admit that I get a red flag vibe whenever I encounter a woman who seems to have a condescending disdain for a major portion of her own gender.

[Woggle]

It's not that men want somebody with a lower economic status or education but most men just don't care about stuff. We don't really have a caste system when it comes to relationships. We care about how she treats us and how she makes us feel and how much we enjoy being around her.

[hotpotato]

Your last paragraph contradicts your second one...

 

I actually know examples of both situations: men with women who are their equal when it comes to socio-economic status, education, IQ and men with women who are not their equal: lower education, not financially independent.

In the first case I see that these men are emancipated. They help with household chores and take care of the kids. Does not matter that they have a high socioeconomic status. This is a pattern that I see in younger people. In the latter case traditional gender roles. People my age (50) or older.

 

In online dating where I get contacted by guys my age are older I notice that the men still have a very traditional view on gender roles. Which turns me off and thus prevents me of showing my sweeter soft side. I need to feel that a guy is emancipated before I will show any vulnerability. Whereas the damsel in distress type will show her vulnerability as her first card. That does not mean she is a better partner.

 

This bears repeating! The guy who called me Wesley Snipes has figured this out. Girl was good at hooking him from the beginning and even had him driving through a couple of states to see her. Now he complains that she wasn't as smart, wasn't this wasn't that, and *he* said I lost out because my charms were more subtle. So it's something these women are doing in the beginning to hook dudes. To be back on topic, that's why I recommended that Phoe find something she wasn't good at and then let a man help her. I didn't say for her to play dumb, I recommended she find something she was genuinely not good at.

[hotpotato]

It's not that men want somebody with a lower economic status or education but most men just don't care about stuff. We don't really have a caste system when it comes to relationships. We care about how she treats us and how she makes us feel and how much we enjoy being around her.

 

Aaaand most men want to feel like the man in the relationship. Most men want to feel strong and like they are adding to a woman's life.

[autumnnight]

Aaaand most men want to feel like the man in the relationship. Most men want to feel strong and like they are adding to a woman's life.

 

And honestly, there is not anything wrong with that.

[Woggle]

Aaaand most men want to feel like the man in the relationship. Most men want to feel strong and like they are adding to a woman's life.

 

Most women want to feel feminine and like a woman as well but for me it has nothing to do with making me feel like a man. I like a woman who after I am done doing what I need to do to get paid I can just relax and enjoy life with and often these self proclaimed strong and independent women are the opposite of that. They can't stop for one minute to enjoy life and if they do they start complaining that they are bored. I had a casual arrangement with a woman like that and I don't think I ever really saw her happy. She was such a perfectionist and nitpicker that if there was a heaven she would gave endlessly complained about it. I don't want to share my life with somebody like that.

[hotpotato]

Maybe they were lying to you to not hurt your feelings..No one ever really tells the other person the truth when they dump them...Its about the same as "its not you, its me" garbage..Truth is you will likely never know..

 

Its been said many times on this thread....Im not necessarily saying this is true of you, but too many people have a false sense of their own awesomeness..and as a result cant seem to grasp the fact that one womans junk might be another mans jewel...

 

And I disagree with your statement about mega fit bodybuilder type men going for some average looking couch potato...Been around these types my whole life and never once seen anything as you describe..Maybe you saw one and assumed everyone is like this..

 

TFY

 

Hmmm lets see...I got the you're intimidating well before the breakup. On our first date, he said, "Um wow, you're in better shape than me, and I'm in the military!" I repeat, on the first date. "You're more buff than me/smarter than me/better mechanic than me" was an overriding theme in that relationship. He wasn't happy about it either. So try again please.

 

We have already said time and time again that for whatever reason that average woman might be a jewel. I and others have already said this in several ways throughout this thread. You are just being argumentative. IMO a lot of them have the vulnerability that makes them attractive. Seriously...

 

Nowadays if a man is coming with that you're intimidating or whatever, I'd just leave. I can see where it's headed lol.

 

You should head to bb.com. Many buff men are perfectly fawn and fawn over average woman. Plenty of them also have average wives or at least wives that weren't nearly as buff. Some are into bbws, thick chics, etc. Anyone can go a bodybuilding site really quick and see that...but no we just want to argue with Hot Tater...Hell, I know guys who were former quarterback with the more plain Jane wife who maybe works out a little. To accuse me of assuming that all bb men are into "couch potato" (which is not my term, ive repeated used words like average) is completely illogical since I said a lot of buff women are also dating buff men. Ooookay...Once again, just trying to stir the pot.

[hotpotato]

And honestly, there is not anything wrong with that.

 

I didn't say there was, but people are pretending like it's a foreign concept.

[autumnnight]

Plenty of them also have average wives

 

Again, average to YOU. Their husbands may not consider them average.

 

Do you believe there is a single, objective definition of average and a single, objective definition of "superior"?

 

There isn't.

[hotpotato]

Again, average to YOU. Their husbands may not consider them average.

 

Do you believe there is a single, objective definition of average and a single, objective definition of "superior"?

 

There isn't.

 

I think we've already gone through this and beaten this horse to death!

[thefooloftheyear]

Hmmm lets see...I got the you're intimidating well before the breakup. On our first date, he said, "Um wow, you're in better shape than me, and I'm in the military!" I repeat, on the first date. "You're more buff than me/smarter than me/better mechanic than me" was an overriding theme in that relationship. He wasn't happy about it either. So try again please.

 

We have already said time and time again that for whatever reason that average woman might be a jewel. I and others have already said this in several ways throughout this thread. You are just being argumentative. IMO a lot of them have the vulnerability that makes them attractive. Seriously...

 

Nowadays if a man is coming with that you're intimidating or whatever, I'd just leave. I can see where it's headed lol.

 

You should head to bb.com. Many buff men are perfectly fawn and fawn over average woman. Plenty of them also have average wives or at least wives that weren't nearly as buff. Some are into bbws, thick chics, etc. Anyone can go a bodybuilding site really quick and see that...but no we just want to argue with Hot Tater...Hell, I know guys who were former quarterback with the more plain Jane wife who maybe works out a little. To accuse me of assuming that all bb men are into "couch potato" (which is not my term, ive repeated used words like average) is completely illogical since I said a lot of buff women are also dating buff men. Ooookay...Once again, just trying to stir the pot.

 

 

You are trying to argue what men want with a man....You are already at a huge disadvantage..

 

How many times in this thread did you mention how much you can lift? No one gives a shyt...And on what planet do you think that somehow makes you more special or "less average" than a woman that can't lift?....You have no idea how absolutely ridiculous you sound...My own 70+ year old mother could load a bunch of 50 lb bags on a cart...I guarantee she can...And knowing her, she'd either probably just do it or ask me to do it if I was around...she wouldnt be looking for any validation for that miraculous feat of strength.

 

You are tellng all this to someone who knows ...I dont need to read what a bunch of window shoppers and tools spout on about what they like.,There are millions of couples where the woman is more fit than the man...Believe me...those guys arent intimidated...They are secure enough in their manhood and appreciate the fact that their woman takes care of herself...They are loving every minute of it..

 

Read this....

 

I(and I am sure most guys in this thread) NEVER rejected a woman because she was "too intimidating"....If you are getting that, chances are those guys are just jerking your chain or they are complete spineless morons..

 

Now....I will admit that some women seem to think that if they act like "one of the boys" or have some latent penis envy issues, that guys should still fall at their feet...Excuse me for saying this, but heterosexual guys like women....forgive them if they pass on the heterosexual women that act or look like bull dykes..

 

TFY

Edited March 18, 2015 by thefooloftheyear

[hotpotato]

You are trying to argue what men want with a man....You are already at a huge disadvantage..

 

How many times in this thread did you mention how much you can lift? No one gives a shyt...And on what planet do you think that somehow makes you more special or "less average" than a woman that can't lift?....You have no idea how absolutely ridiculous you sound...My own 70+ year old mother could load a bunch of 50 lb bags on a cart...I guarantee she can...And knowing her, she'd either probably just do it or ask me to do it if I was around...she wouldnt be looking for any validation for that miraculous feat of strength.

 

You are tellng all this to someone who knows ...I dont need to read what a bunch of window shoppers and tools spout on about what they like.,There are millions of couples where the woman is more fit than the man...Believe me...those guys arent intimidated...They are secure enough in their manhood and appreciate the fact that their woman takes care of herself...They are loving every minute of it..

 

Read this....

 

I(and I am sure most guys in this thread) NEVER rejected a woman because she was "too intimidating"....If you are getting that, chances are those guys are just jerking your chain or they are complete spineless morons..

 

Now....I will admit that some women seem to think that if they act like "one of the boys" or have some latent penis envy issues, that guys should still fall at their feet...Excuse me for saying this, but heterosexual guys like women....forgive them if they pass on the heterosexual women that act or look like bull dykes..

 

TFY

 

Ok, if you are trying to tell me what its like to be me, you are at a disadvantage.

 

Heck, ive had guys who werent trying to date me ask flat out if I was a man, but okaaay... Oh and I wasnt even particularly lean. But ook it doesnt happen according to you. Or theyre spineless morons...Guess I must have met a lot of them...

 

 

Lets see...Once I was out with a guy and sitting next to him, and his friend says "You know her legs are as big as yours ." Hmmkay... The guy I was with thought it was cool and was into that even though he was a lil soft, which I didnt care about. Most men ive met who are really into fit girls are fit themselves.

 

It is what is, really. People are acting like im making stuff up. The struggle is real lol. Im not even saying im the most attractive or buff or whatever (not by far), but its very easy to make a lot of guys uncomfortable. Heck, ill never forget once I was simply walking faster than a guu at the park and he got disappinted.

 

Yes, there are strong men out there who dont mind. I can think of a few, like the 6ft5 football player I knew, or the 6ft6 rough n tough guy I knew. However, that type of man is rare.

 

No, im not saying lifting 50lb bags and pushing them by oneself is a miraculous feat. The point was that most women would have used that as an opportunity for help. Most women dont want to lift that much stuff. I guess thats a controversy on ls...

[Redhead14]

I wanted to say do men like "helping" women, but that word is not allowed in titles!

 

 

This is a concept that I was never introduced to until very recently.

 

The idea that men enjoy helping a woman and that a part of that masculine/feminine balance in dating comes from a man feeling that he is "needed" so to speak.

 

It's been suggested to me before that my independent nature is offputting to men. I do things myself. I am very handy. Build, fix, lift, etc, I can do it all. I know stranger to tools and am strong enough to lift heavy things, and am not afraid to get dirty.

 

In the past, I thought that this would make me attractive to men. The fact that they wouldn't have to do anything for me, that I would be super easy to be with and no work, that I would be able to take care of anything and everything myself, I always thought it would be a MAJOR selling point, but it's been pointed out to me that this is not true, and I'm starting to see some logic.

 

However... I don't think it's that cut and dry. I think there's definitely a limit to it.

 

I've tried it out. Doing less stuff on my own and having men do those things instead.

 

I've noticed mostly neutral results, but a few negative ones. A few of "why the hell are you asking me to do this inane crap just do it yourself" attitudes. And I'm not asking for really arduous tasks, just simple things that take 2 seconds and just a lift of the hand... but when a man isn't expecting it, I can see why it would grate on him.

 

So I am led to believe it's a balance between doing everything myself, and asking others to help... that balance is to go ahead and do things myself, but if someone OFFERS help, to accept.... but never ask, because asking will likely inconvenience someone.

 

Any opinions on this? Do men like helping women? Does it depend on whether you offered or whether she asked?

 

 

Most men do appreciate a woman who is confident and independent. They do like to help the women they care about. What they don't want is a woman who relies on them for everything and can't deal with situations on their own when necessary and runs to them often.

 

A confident, independent woman who refuses to accept help from a man because she's making a point that she doesn't need a man for anything, sends the message that he is unncessary in her life. Men want to be needed now and again. So if a man offers to help her, she should allow him to it at least once in a while and be appreciative. She should ask him for help once in a while too. They want and need appreciation. If you don't let them do things for you they can't feel appreciated.

 

"why the hell are you asking me to do this inane crap just do it yourself" attitudes. In this scenario, when a man is responding to a request for help by being irritated, it may be that he's distracted or worried about something and doesn't want to be bothered about anything, especially, if it's trivial. You kinda have to know the man you're with and asking for help at that point.

Edited March 18, 2015 by Redhead14

[hotpotato]

 

Now....I will admit that some women seem to think that if they act like "one of the boys" or have some latent penis envy issues, that guys should still fall at their feet...Excuse me for saying this, but heterosexual guys like women....forgive them if they pass on the heterosexual women that act or look like bull dykes..

 

TFY

 

Hmmm let me think of how many times I said how much I can lift in this thread...Hmm dont remember saying I squat x or curl with y and my workouts are z. So try again.. .

 

This is pretty honest post above. A lot of the women EMK helps have nontraditional interests that can come across as manly. I believe he said when strong capable woman talks about her interests, that in itself can be a landmine. I do think someone like EMK could help Phoe. Once again, it would be good to play up that femininity/vulnerability. Letting a man help her would be a good start. Even if nothing romantic came of it, she is getting practice *receiving* help. Then gradually Phoe could show him her stronger side. Maybe its game playing, but dating is a game. Most people are trying to put their best foot forward and create that attraction.

 

I guess the equivalent would be like if a man had a lot of traditionally female interests.