Rape survivors and counseling: self discoveries

[shamen]

Hello all,

 

I posted something in another thread that I would like more discussion on... I was date raped for my first experience for sex (that's how I lost my virginity) and finally, after almost 20 years have brought it up in counseling. I've been to counseling before, but I don't think that I've ever brought this up. If I have, for some reason, I do not remember it.

 

List of discoveries I've made so far... (all in relation to dating)

 

1) I have found that I have serious issues with trusting men.

 

2) I don't like to have any emotions besides anger towards men. I don't like having emotions...

 

3) I don't talk about good emotions with men, much less if something makes me angry. It takes a while before I just blow up! In which case, I turn into b*tch girl. When I do have a good emotion, I never say anything about it until they tell me things first. Even then, I don't express feelings of love very often. I am very good at seeming emotion-less, even at work.

 

4) I often end up with men who are bad for me or men who are freaky looking or are freaks because the guy who date raped me was captain of the football team and Joe Straight.

 

5) I made myself purposely look freaky for years probably for the same reason as #4. I didn't want to attract normal looking men.

 

6) My counselor told me that many women who are raped end up being one of two things sexually: super hot or super cold. I was one of the super hots. Had sex with lots and lots of people when I was younger. Now that I'm in my mid 30s, I find that I can't have random sex anymore even though I'd like to (I do want it, I just can't separate the emotions from the sex anymore).

 

7) Any good normal man who has tried to make his way into my life, I find some way to royally screw up the relationship. I get bored and run away.

 

8) I've said no to all 4 men who've asked me to get married (3 of whom had pretty serious issues, admittedly) and I've run away.

 

9) I have no real desire to get married or have kids. Don't know if this connected to the rape or not, just thought I'd throw it out there.

 

10) The only men who I do trust are my friends, but anytime that I've tried to make one of these relationships work on another level (a love relationship), I screw that up too.

 

These are just some of my thoughts about my experiences with counseling so far. Anyone have any other thoughts or self discoveries, through counseling, or otherwise that they would like to share? I'm starting to realize that if I ever want to have some kind of normal relationship with a man, then I will need to get past a lot of these issues...

[quankanne]

These are just some of my thoughts about my experiences with counseling so far. Anyone have any other thoughts or self discoveries, through counseling, or otherwise that they would like to share?

 

for the longest time, I'd leave before I got left in a relationship ... not sure where that came from, unless it was my lowered self-esteem around men and love relationships in general. finally cured it when, ironically enough, my husband would pick fights over stupid stuff just before he'd leave out on a job -- we figured out that this was a kind of defense mechanism so that we wouldn't hurt from the separation.

 

ah ... the really dumb ways we beat ourselves up because of our hang-ups ...

[meanon]

Those are all understandable reactions to the trauma of rape, many of them are common to others. You will do anything to avoid becoming vulnerable to a man who has a sexual interest in you. The casual sex, dating men you knew were not right for you were ways of stopping them getting too close.

 

You do need to get past them, you will. When counselling works best the self discoveries are followed by an understanding of why you react as you do and some practical strategies for helping you react differently. Once you start making change in a small area of your life and the world doesn't stop, then it gets easier.

 

Good luck, shamen, not that you'll need it

[shamen]

Originally posted by quankanne

These are just some of my thoughts about my experiences with counseling so far. Anyone have any other thoughts or self discoveries, through counseling, or otherwise that they would like to share?

 

for the longest time, I'd leave before I got left in a relationship ... not sure where that came from, unless it was my lowered self-esteem around men and love relationships in general. finally cured it when, ironically enough, my husband would pick fights over stupid stuff just before he'd leave out on a job -- we figured out that this was a kind of defense mechanism so that we wouldn't hurt from the separation.

 

ah ... the really dumb ways we beat ourselves up because of our hang-ups ...

 

I know exactly what you're what talking about... I'm almost always the one that leaves first, I guess that's why I'm so incredibly freaked when they leave me. Because they almost never have the time, because I always am the one who runs first...

 

I'll get over this eventually. I really like my counselor; I think that I may come to some real realizations about myself this time around and be able to, hopefully, not make the same mistakes with men that I've made in the past after this round of therapy. I feel for the first time that I am really making self discoveries in relation to my rape, which I do not think that I've made before. It's kind of liberating.

[shamen]

Originally posted by meanon

Those are all understandable reactions to the trauma of rape, many of them are common to others. You will do anything to avoid becoming vulnerable to a man who has a sexual interest in you. The casual sex, dating men you knew were not right for you were ways of stopping them getting too close.

 

You do need to get past them, you will. When counselling works best the self discoveries are followed by an understanding of why you react as you do and some practical strategies for helping you react differently. Once you start making change in a small area of your life and the world doesn't stop, then it gets easier.

 

Good luck, shamen, not that you'll need it

 

Thanks, Meanon. It's been a weird couple of months. Just when I thought that I could trust a guy, there it goes out the window (see my thread about, "I just got broken up with in a voice mail. We had "the talk" three days ago. WTF?", or something along those lines. I'm too lazy to find out the link, sorry.).

 

You're so right, I'm very good at avoiding becoming vulnerable... I guess that's why I'm so uber-pissed about the fact that I was vulnerable at this last phase in my life where I let someone in. It's not going to happen again for a while, mind you! I'd rather just hang out with my gfs and my beer, and all will be good. Maybe a few shots of tequila. Alcohol has been a friend for years, thank god not to the extent that it was... She never cheats on you or tells you that she doesn't like you.

B(tch! I almost wish that she would and I wouldn't be sitting here all f*cked up right now at 2:30 in the morning...

 

Sorry, I'm feeling a little angry at men right now. This too shall pass.

 

Thanks again for your confidence in the fact that I will be able to get past these things in my life. Self discoveries are slow to come and my counselor I think now is convinced that I will be in counseling for years after some of the sh*t that I've said to her in the last few sessions. The practical strategies are now things that I am just starting to discover. I am looking forward to the day where I no longer feel the need to make major changes in my choice in men; then maybe I'll know that I've made true self discoveries.

 

I do need the luck; please do not think that I do not need it... I am very messed up with my choices in men in general. I am so looking forward to the day where I can think, "There's nothing truly and seriously wrong with this boy that I'm dating and I'm happy with who he is and I can see myself with him for a long time." I don't think that I've thought that about any man that I've ever dated in my entire life...

[johan]

Shamen,

 

With all your discoveries, I wonder what kind of life you actually want. You've turned all your marriage proposals down, you don't trust men, you have no desire to get married or have kids. But you obviously don't want to be alone, and I'm sure you want love in your life. So what is your goal?

 

In some ways, the way you described yourself reminds me of my girlfriend.

[shamen]

Originally posted by johan

Shamen,

 

With all your discoveries, I wonder what kind of life you actually want. You've turned all your marriage proposals down, you don't trust men, you have no desire to get married or have kids. But you obviously don't want to be alone, and I'm sure you want love in your life. So what is your goal?

 

In some ways, the way you described yourself reminds me of my girlfriend.

 

What is my goal? Good question. That's why I'm in counseling. I do want love in my life. Love is the most beautiful thing that there is on this planet. I have it for my family and my friends and my life would be all the better if I had it with a companion...

 

But, right now, I'm really afraid of it. I'm angry. I'm disgusted. I've been so let down with the last 3 men that I've dated &/or had long term relationships with... A liar, an alcoholic drug addict and a freak. I've got such good taste in men, eh? Maybe when I'm able to pick a man who wouldn't be a poor choice from the beginning, then maybe I'll be OK. I usually know right at the offset that I'm choosing someone who will disappoint so I can run...

 

I do want love in a normal relationship, but right now, I just don't know how to do that. I'm hoping that I will be able to figure out some of this stuff in the next few months in therapy. If I can somehow put order to all this chaos in my head about men, then I may be able to find real love and love truly.

 

Johan, has your gf also been raped?

[quankanne]

I am looking forward to the day where I no longer feel the need to make major changes in my choice in men; then maybe I'll know that I've made true self discoveries

 

it'll come shamen: you're going to have this self-discovery that you value yourself more than you realize and you're tired of flaying yourself by making those bad choices. That before you can give love, you're first got to at least like yourself, be comfortable with yourself. From there, you start taking those steps to reverse the harmful-to-yourself behavior.

 

~~~~

 

I prolly need to insert here that I'm not a rape victim, just someone who was able to strongly identify with the "self-discovery" topic in your first post. A lot of my hang-ups deal more with my somewhat dysfunctional initial outlook on love and relationships because I was one of those kids who didn't fit in any of the easily identifiable social circles growing up and also was a late bloomer when it came to boy-girl interpersonal relationships ...

[johan]

At least you're doing something about it. I'm sure you'd be a challenge, but the right guy should be willing to stick it out with you. I think the best therapy for these things is just to be loved by someone that you love back. But it's also really hard.

 

I don't know whether she's ever been raped. She has told me about a couple situations that really scared her. And she's been disappointed by men, had problems with her dad, etc. She's a challenge for me. But I was also a challenge for her. We both hung in there, and it has turned out to be worth it.

 

Good luck to you. Don't deny yourself the chance to be really happy with someone. If you do that, then you're just giving that guy who violated you too much credit.

[shamen]

Originally posted by quankanne

I am looking forward to the day where I no longer feel the need to make major changes in my choice in men; then maybe I'll know that I've made true self discoveries

 

it'll come shamen: you're going to have this self-discovery that you value yourself more than you realize and you're tired of flaying yourself by making those bad choices. That before you can give love, you're first got to at least like yourself, be comfortable with yourself. From there, you start taking those steps to reverse the harmful-to-yourself behavior.

 

~~~~

 

I prolly need to insert here that I'm not a rape victim, just someone who was able to strongly identify with the "self-discovery" topic in your first post. A lot of my hang-ups deal more with my somewhat dysfunctional initial outlook on love and relationships because I was one of those kids who didn't fit in any of the easily identifiable social circles growing up and also was a late bloomer when it came to boy-girl interpersonal relationships ...

 

Thanks Quankanne! I really needed this today... I had to see my long term ex of 4 years (C.) to deal with some bill issues...

 

I'm working on the valuing myself thing. This is taking me a lot longer than I had anticipated in my life. Just when I start to see glimmers of it, I screw it up by dating yet another wrong boy (P.S.), which ended last week. I did that with my last long term ex (C.) as well. I dated a guy for 2 years before him, with only 1 month in between. I have barely been single in the last 7 years... And the whole point after C. was to date a nice man!

 

I do feel in general a lot more happy than I did 6 months ago, but this last dating thing I did (P.S.) has really put a wrench in my calm. I'm so angry right now and saddened by all of this!

 

Back to making myself happy with me, though. That's why I've decided to take a break from dating altogether for a while. After seeing C. today, I realize that I started dating P.S. when I wasn't really over C. I almost cried in the car today after dropping him off.

 

Don't worry about not being a rape victim; it's the issues of self discoveries that I'm really more interested in right now. I want to break free of my past behaviors to become a new person in my dating world. I was a freak girl who was friends with everyone in HS, so I feel your pain about not fitting in. Yeah, everyone was my friend, as long as the rest of their group wasn't around!

 

Thank god for therapy every week.

[shamen]

Originally posted by johan

At least you're doing something about it. I'm sure you'd be a challenge, but the right guy should be willing to stick it out with you. I think the best therapy for these things is just to be loved by someone that you love back. But it's also really hard.

 

I don't know whether she's ever been raped. She has told me about a couple situations that really scared her. And she's been disappointed by men, had problems with her dad, etc. She's a challenge for me. But I was also a challenge for her. We both hung in there, and it has turned out to be worth it.

 

Good luck to you. Don't deny yourself the chance to be really happy with someone. If you do that, then you're just giving that guy who violated you too much credit.

 

Thanks Johan... I'm definitely a challenge. Way too strong and successful (outwardly) for most men to deal with. I scare a lot of men. Maybe that's why I attract the freaks!

 

It'll probably be a while until I date anyone again as I'm freaked by what's happened in the last week (long story). I'm trying not to deny myself the chance to be happy with someone, but I'm just not very good at it. Hence, weekly sessions of trying to figure this sh*t out.

 

Until all this stuff came out in therapy in the last month or so, I didn't really think that my views on relationships were really that connected to what happened back when I was 16... But I've got so many of the traits that rape survivors have, it's really weird. Hopefully going to therapy will help me to once and for all put all of this crap behind me.

 

I'm glad that you and your gf have hung in there for each other. You're both lucky!

[Groovy]

Shamen,

 

Without going too much into my story, I know what it's like. The first BF I had I explained my fears. They were extremely patient and kind to me about it. For this reason I think the trust was built and I was not afraid to share myself with a man. I think it is extremely important for you to let your partner know that your afraid or what you have gone through so they can understand you and support your needs. Without this communication they will not understand, communication is poor and your relationships will not flourish.

 

I have been pretty good about choosing the right people for me. My issue that still stays with me is the inability to let down my walls and let people come in. I am not incapable of it, it just takes a while. And often times I push them away without meaning to. It's a struggle because you want something you unintentionally deprive yourself out of fear. Intimacy is a lot more frightening with the past of sexual abuse.

 

I also have had 3 men propose. I am dating the 3rd offer right now and am insisting this time I stick around to discover maybe what that kind of love would be like. As long as you are capable of trusting people eventually, you have nothing to worry about. Because if they love you they will wait and understand. The point is that you are CAPABLE of it. If not, that is the big issue.

 

Realize sexual abuse, unfortunately is a lot more common than we'd like to acknowledge. I have heard as many as 1 out of 3 women experience it. I wish you the best of luck and keep us posted please

[shamen]

Originally posted by Groovy

Without going too much into my story, I know what it's like. The first BF I had I explained my fears. They were extremely patient and kind to me about it. For this reason I think the trust was built and I was not afraid to share myself with a man. I think it is extremely important for you to let your partner know that your afraid or what you have gone through so they can understand you and support your needs. Without this communication they will not understand, communication is poor and your relationships will not flourish.

 

I have been pretty good about choosing the right people for me. My issue that still stays with me is the inability to let down my walls and let people come in. I am not incapable of it, it just takes a while. And often times I push them away without meaning to. It's a struggle because you want something you unintentionally deprive yourself out of fear. Intimacy is a lot more frightening with the past of sexual abuse.

 

I also have had 3 men propose. I am dating the 3rd offer right now and am insisting this time I stick around to discover maybe what that kind of love would be like. As long as you are capable of trusting people eventually, you have nothing to worry about. Because if they love you they will wait and understand. The point is that you are CAPABLE of it. If not, that is the big issue.

 

Realize sexual abuse, unfortunately is a lot more common than we'd like to acknowledge. I have heard as many as 1 out of 3 women experience it. I wish you the best of luck and keep us posted please

 

Hi Groovy,

 

I never really thought about explaining my fears and issues with trust with any of the guys I've dated... I just stay kind of stand-offish for a lot longer than most people would, I guess. No problems with divulging my crazy past and stuff, but I don't usually mention the rape, or any good emotions, until much later on in the relationship. Have they all been pretty capable of dealing with it, the ones that you've said it to?

 

You're right in that I probably should reveal this about myself, but somehow it seems so... I don't know... dirty. I don't want them to know that about me. It's worse than anything else somehow, my herpes, the number of sexual partners that I've had, the drug use, etc... Which doesn't really make any sense in reality.

 

I'm glad that you've been able to choose good men. I'm hoping to get to that point with the next guy that I date. The intimacy thing and the walls, god, do I know those two things well. I'm very good at pushing people away. Now I'm fine with my friends, but with men I date, whoa. It's hard to let people in.

 

I've got to keep reminding myself that I am CAPABLE of a regular relationship with a normal man. I just don't know if it's yet, or right now. This push in counseling is sending me a little over the edge emotionally right now. I've been crying on and off since I saw my long term ex a few days ago and getting dumped in a voice mail last week didn't exactly help. I'm beginning to realize all of these patterns in myself at a time when my love life is so f*cked! Figures.

 

It's probably good that I got dumped last week in the grand scheme of things as it's probably better that I am alone while I'm figuring all of these things out, ya know? Don't know that I would really want to subject a guy to all of the convoluted emotions that I've been experiencing the last month or so. Maybe that's part of the reason that I was dumped, in that I've been so non-emotional about everything outwardly recently, probably even more so than normal because of what is going on in counseling right now. Even though I feel more emotional than I have in a long time.

 

Can't believe that it's taken me 20 years to really deal with this in counseling to start to see these patterns of behavior in myself. It's like seeing myself from the outside. I don't think that I've ever analyzed all of my dating stupidity before this.

 

Thanks for the luck thoughts, Groovy. It helps to know that other people out there who have been abused sexually know what I'm talking about. I know that it's not just me.

[natoto]

Hey Shamen, how old are you now? you're saying that this incident happened over 20 years ago right? Hrmmm. I'm marrying my g/f (who was also date-raped) and we were able to help each other cope and get over those things. I don't really know your dating situation but I think the best advice I could give you is to just stick with your friends (or make some) The person who is going to accept you, and help you forget your past is going to be your best friend, and your lover. Well, at least the way it worked for me, is me and my g/f became best of friends, and then without realizing it we naturally progressed into a love relationship. I can tell you there's no going back. Once you're in love with somebody (on that friendship level) and they know all about you (and visa versa) as long as you're both into each other, you're setting yourself up for a great relationship...at least that's how I see it.

[natoto]

oh I just read your last post.

 

Let me tell you right now, if my g/f had herpes, or multiple partners, or anything else, that wouldn't have prevented me from falling in love with her, or getting to where we are at right now. The point is, I would love her with all my heart unconditionally under any circumstances. There are certainly other men out there like me, so don't be too shy about things. I know this is hard (or weird) advice. Don't just tell every guy you date about what happened. Try to wait until you find somebody right to open up to it about. When you find somebody special, you'll know it's ok to tell them what happend, and you'll find yourself accepted. It could be a friend, or somebody you're seeing.

[shamen]

Hi Natato,

 

Amazing to see this old post brought back...

 

But hey, thanks for the reply. Things are so much different for me now. I've been in counseling for almost a year now and I feel like I've really been dealing with it.

 

The biggest hurdle has been choosing a man who is good for me, rather than practically purposely choosing men who are BAD BAD BAD for me. I'm currently dating a man who is good for me and sweet. And nice, and all of that stuff that I've avoided for years basically.

 

Since it was Joe Football, Captain of the Team, that date raped me, I tended to choose ones who looked exactly opposite of that. While I look almost completely normal these days, I still have a bit of an edge and the boys (men) that I like almost always are rough around the edges looking. I purposely left out any guy who looked normal from even getting a chance, which I didn't even realize I was doing until this year with my therapist.

 

Yes, it's been 20 years, but I never really dealt with it professionally until the last year, so it was just sort of sitting there, festering until I went to counseling.

 

Thanks for the encouraging words. You are awesome!

 

Maybe some of the realizations that I originally posted are different now, but at the time, that was what I felt...

[borken_doll18]

hiya,

omg i never thought that someone elce felt like that 2. im only 18 and i knew my attacker, he was my violent ex. i have never been in a relationship since it happend, but i dare'nt go to counciling, i dont really know why. it happened 8 months ago and im really feeling depressed about it, i havent been able to show my emotions since i was 7 yrs old and now i just seem to have found them, i cry all the time, cant sleep, always locked in my room. i just cant communicate with men the way i used 2 i've become withdrawn and quiet. i'm just so glad that i'm not the only one who feels the way i do.

thank you

[Outcast]

but i dare'nt go to counciling

 

You have to go. If you don't, this will haunt you for a long, long time. Do it for yourself because it's important.

[borken_doll18]

yeah i no my friend agrees with you totally, but i dont really want to go through it all again. in a way i know i need 2 go but another part of me is saying no dont do it.

do you know what i mean

[shamen]

Hey doll,

 

You really should go to counseling. It's the only way to truly get over this. I wish that I would've gone and dealt with this years ago.

 

Admittedly, I've had lots of bad relationships... some I'm sure have ended because of my issues. And I've had lots of problems picking the right guy.

 

PLEASE go and see someone!

 

Shamen