why you don't want to know the specifics & you need an objective friend

[d0nnivain]

Well you did pounce. As a guy who's going to be 44 in a few weeks who's still a virgin, my opinion will never be valued and if I want to know why sex feels like I'll have to go pay for it. I'm one of these people who doesn't have the best social skills, as much as I might try. You bet it makes women uncomfortable and there's nothing I can do about it. To me it as outrageous that a good looking, smooth talking guy can easily get into women's pants within hours, while a decent guy with poor social skills is guaranteed to be single forever. Sorry you're wrong about these things being learned. I have tried and tried and retired. At almost 44 I am done trying.

 

 

 

I didn't pounce. Really. I was trying to be gentle. If I pounced, you would have foot prints on your head & I'd be kicked off the site.

 

 

There are things you can do but you haven't done them or don't want to.

 

 

Have you done any of the following:

 

 

1. Taken a Dale Carnegie class or even read the book How to Win Friends & Influence People?

 

 

2. Take an etiquette class?

 

 

3. Joined a group called Toast Masters?

 

 

4. Gone to a meetup event?

 

 

5. Signed up for speed dating?

 

 

6. Asked friends & family to fix you up?

 

 

Candidly, if your RL personality mirrors the tone of your posts, it's not your virginity that is the problem. It's the giant chip on your shoulder.

[Gloria25]

I didn't pounce. Really. I was trying to be gentle. If I pounced, you would have foot prints on your head & I'd be kicked off the site.

 

 

There are things you can do but you haven't done them or don't want to.

 

 

Have you done any of the following:

 

 

1. Taken a Dale Carnegie class or even read the book How to Win Friends & Influence People?

 

 

2. Take an etiquette class?

 

 

3. Joined a group called Toast Masters?

 

 

4. Gone to a meetup event?

 

 

5. Signed up for speed dating?

 

 

6. Asked friends & family to fix you up?

 

 

Candidly, if your RL personality mirrors the tone of your posts, it's not your virginity that is the problem. It's the giant chip on your shoulder.

 

Agreed....like I've seen this a million times. "Woe is me, but me doing any self improvement is not my job". Look, this guy on ID who killed his 2nd Russian bride. Overweight, no job...yet wants tall, blonde and sexy cuz he sure deserves it.

[Fhsjkfjrhsdh3646]

I used to be terrible with women, and used to be a scrawny 6'2 introverted guy. I've taken a lot of risks, immersed myself in social situations whenever possible to learn how to interact smoothly with others, and hit the gym a ton to fill out my build. Also, when I make a mistake I learn from it and try again.

 

I'm not a master with women now by any means, I'm probably just average. But it's possible to better yourself and be desirable by women, you just need to work at it and develop confidence in yourself.

 

Shyness and social anxiety can be compensated for. I'm living proof lol.

[gaius]

Nowadays most people seem to surround themselves with nobody but those who will tell them how great they are. Laugh at their jokes no matter how lame, etc etc. To their own detriment.

 

Luckily I grew up in an Italian family so I'm never not informed when I do something wrong. Good for the DJs.

[d0nnivain]

average guy is no carnegie no matter how hard he tries.

etiquette class won't take those nerves away.

toastmasters is for public speaking. different skill.

meetup is not for dating. a girl even told me this.

speed dating, what a feeling when no one chooses you and all the girls choose the same guy.

friends and family set up. afraid if they choose the wrong girl, you'll blame them.

 

the usual very poor advice

 

 

I'm sorry you think my advice is so poor but what would you tell someone to do? Give up & curl into a ball praying for death? That's no solution. People have to try. That is what self improvement is all about.

 

 

The Dale Carnegie classes teach people to read body language. They teach techniques for remembering people's names. They give you the skills to put other people at ease & give you fall back patterns of behavior on which you can rely when you feel nervous. Calming your own nerves is the 1st step. It's not about becoming a turn of the century robber baron or Rico Suave.

 

 

 

Similarly I recommended an etiquette class because a few people on here, Dropped71 included were insisting that poor table manners were a manifestation of nerves. Even if that is true (which I do not believe) if good table manners are ingrained, they will surface when the person is nervous. With good table manners, the person won't face what the guy in my original example faced, which is turning a date off because he chewed with his mouth open. Also some women like to feel romanced. Opening doors & pulling out chairs, can add to the ambiance of the date. Learning to do those things smoothly -- because again they become ingrained with enough practice -- can help smooth any bumps in the date. If the lady concludes that the guy is trying to make her feel special, even if he doesn't hit the mark, many women will give him credit for the effort.

 

 

Public speaking is a very difficult skill & the focus of Toast Masters. However, the skills are somewhat transferable & the group is cheaper than the paid Dale Carnegie classes. Learning to control breathing & articulate a point are useful life & dating skills. Having that skill can translate into improved interpersonal relationships. Groups have the added benefit of allowing shy people to interact with other shy people & possible foster a connection with a kindred spirit in a low pressure situation over time. While Toastmasters is not a singles/ dating group, finding someone is a numbers game. The more you put yourself out there, the more likely you are to find somebody.

 

 

There are MeetUp groups for dating but there are more for everything else. I met my husband at an entrepreneurs' networking event. Ironically we were both members of the same Singles group but never met at their functions because we never attended the same ones. Going to a MeetUp to participate in something you enjoy brings happiness into your life. if you are happier you are more likely to attract somebody. Nobody wants to date the person with the dark cloud over their head.

 

 

Most friends & family love you & want to see you happy. If they can help, most are willing to try. People's moms want to be grandmom's. If they can foster a match, they will be delighted to help. Don't knock it until you have tried it. Granted my mother was terrible at it but it didn't stop her from trying.

 

 

At the end of the day, if you want something, a SO, a better job, to lose weight, you are the only person who can get it for yourself. Sitting on your computer lamenting woe is me, solves nothing. Action is required.

 

 

And so bve, I leave you with this, if my advice is so bad, where's your alternate suggestion? Oh that's right. You didn't offer one because your intent is to try to tear me down rather than build somebody else up.

[autumnnight]

I'm not going to go into any identifying detail, but I was the weird kid. The ugly gawky weird kid who took everything literally, didn't get banter, and picked at scabs with my tongue sticking out when nervous.

 

But I was smart and observant. I learned. And when I learned I found this whole new part of myself that enjoyed life instead of blaming everybody else.

 

It can be done. I have taught children with Autism, and it CAN be done. Will they become George Clooney? No, but they won't show a date half chewed chicken, pick their nose, or blurt out something about their date's big nose.

[serial muse]

these will never get him a nice jawline or symmeticrical face. further they usually don't work.

 

average guy is no carnegie no matter how hard he tries.

etiquette class won't take those nerves away.

toastmasters is for public speaking. different skill.

meetup is not for dating. a girl even told me this.

speed dating, what a feeling when no one chooses you and all the girls choose the same guy.

friends and family set up. afraid if they choose the wrong girl, you'll blame them.

 

the usual very poor advice

 

No.

 

The guy in question wasn't rejected due to his jawline. He engaged in some very particular behaviors on their date that made the woman uncomfortable, and that is why she rejected him. How do we know this? Because she told a third party and has no reason to lie. She could've just as easily said, "he just wasn't attractive". Instead, she gave some real, thoughtful specifics. That takes more energy than just saying, look, he had no chin, I just wasn't into him. She gave a thoughtful answer and one that should give guys hope, in a way, because this stuff is fixable for most people.

 

Those behaviors are things that can be addressed if the person wants to. donnivain listed a bunch of different organizations that exist specifically to help people with various social graces. The only thing lacking is the will to change and the acceptance that those are things worth working on. I get that you're unhappy and are caught up in all of that jawline jargon but you're projecting here and definitely missing the forest for the trees.

 

Back to topic, that show sounds totally harsh...but I actually think some good could come of it. In a greater good sense. I mean, that one dude is very embarrassed, I'm sure, and I'll bet it was painful to listen to, but there may be hundreds of others listening anonymously that will take a long look at themselves afterward and think, oh ****, I wonder if I do that stuff.

 

And the art of maintaining proper eye contact, in this age of distractions and devices, is rapidly becoming a lost one. People should pay close attention to this woman's critique.

Edited March 13, 2015 by serial muse

[hotpotato]

Where are his friends and family? Probably not on the date with them! The person who had rejected him knows what went wrong. I dont think its a bad idea to ask, just be ready for brutal answers!

 

Lets face it, we are not gonna tell the fam,"Oh yes, I got nervous on this date and started chewing with my mouth open." Chances are a person doesnt realize they are doing that.

 

Im used to eating alone so im sure I have some foibles! Ive thought about practice dates or having a third party watch me whike on a date so I can get feedback.

[hotpotato]

Poor guy was probably just super nervous. Woman was not interested and was sort of put on the spot by the radio host too.

 

That being said, there is a part of me that really, really wants to listen to that show

lmao

 

Me, too.

Is it streaming????

[Frank2thepoint]

This morning was particularly awful. The guy thought the date went great because the woman laughed & giggled the whole time. He interpreted that to mean she liked his sense of humor & they got along well. From the minute the DJ got her on the phone you could tell it was nervous laughter because she was so uncomfortable. (Again why would she agree to be on the radio? but I digress). Anyway she started with the cliches: we didn't click, I just didn't feel it. After prodding from the DJ, she got specific & it was devastating for the guy to hear. He played with his food. He had OCD tendencies & kept straightening the things on the table. He would stare at her without blinking while he talked with his mouth full, but then look down at his plate & push his food around while she was talking. It felt like he wasn't paying attention.

 

IMO the guy should have simply accepted the cliches because they are kinder but he also really needed a good wingman / friend who should have gently pointed out the table manner issues & lack of meaningful eye contact before he went on the date.

 

That's brutal feedback, but honestly I believe it is much needed. The guy has to look at the positive of the outcome. She gave it to him straight about what social quirks are impeding his ability to connect with a woman. Yeah it's a blow to the ego, and embarrassing to hear over the radio, but he wanted an answer. Personally, I would welcome some candor feedback from my past dates that did not turn into anything. Just give it to me straight so I can improve myself, and be better prepared for a future date, giving me a chance to connect.

 

 

I think those who have grown up in the internet age where you do not have to look in the face of the person you are shredding have sort of a disconnect between "I can" and "I should." Just because I CAN tell someone exactly what I think of them in graphic detail doesn't mean I SHOULD.

My point remains that the clichés exist for a reason & if you are being given them as a reason someone doesn't want to go on a 2nd date with you sometimes it's better not to know.

 

 

I disagree. It will not help the person if all you are telling them is there was no chemistry. That's vague and it doesn't help the person that thought there was chemistry. In regard to d0nnivain's example, the guy probably thought he wasn't good looking enough or tall enough for her, when in reality, it was because he has OCD and didn't bother to look his date in the eye when she was talking.

 

 

True but the 2nd part of my post was where are his friends & relatives? Why didn't they tell him this stuff, more gently, before he went on the date?

 

People rarely listen to friends or relatives' advice. Most people, for some reason, take more stock from a stranger's advice anyway. Also, friends or relatives are used to the person's quirks, and may neglect to advise to correct those quirks. In addition, the person may not even go into the details of what happened on the date, so the advice giver is going on limited information.

 

 

Maybe it's nerves of being on a date that led him to act that way

Poor guy was probably just super nervous.

He was nervous. Bank on it.

 

You guys are very forgiving. The guy was staring at his plate, playing with his food like some child, while the woman was talking to him. That's not nervousness, that's disrespectful. A guy like that is what frustrates a lot of women with dating, and it snowballs into affecting guys like me, who have the courage and decency to look at the woman when she talks and listen.

[MissBee]

A local radio station here started doing this bit where if you meet somebody on OLD & they don't respond to calls, texts & e-mails after that 1st meeting, the station will call that person for you & find out what's really going on.

 

It's a train wreck & I don't understand why people participate but they do.

 

This morning was particularly awful. The guy thought the date went great because the woman laughed & giggled the whole time. He interpreted that to mean she liked his sense of humor & they got along well. From the minute the DJ got her on the phone you could tell it was nervous laughter because she was so uncomfortable. (Again why would she agree to be on the radio? but I digress). Anyway she started with the cliches: we didn't click, I just didn't feel it. After prodding from the DJ, she got specific & it was devastating for the guy to hear. He played with his food. He had OCD tendencies & kept straightening the things on the table. He would stare at her without blinking while he talked with his mouth full, but then look down at his plate & push his food around while she was talking. It felt like he wasn't paying attention.

 

IMO the guy should have simply accepted the cliches because they are kinder but he also really needed a good wingman / friend who should have gently pointed out the table manner issues & lack of meaningful eye contact before he went on the date.

 

 

I haven't any clue why people would participate.

 

I think for such people though, the ones who would go to that length to know, probably have a hard time in dating as they cannot accept rejection and let things go.

 

If I have been out with a man once, even if we had a nice time and it seemed promising, if he doesn't contact me again I let it go. Unless I'm worried he's dropped dead, other than that, if I think he's still alive I gather he is not interested for whatever reason. I may be disappointed for a bit, but it's one date so I will get over it pretty quickly.

 

I would never call him or a radio station to grill him about why he didn't want to see me again.