He said he will kick me out of our house. I want to know, where are those firemen???

[boursin_cheese]

Well, I have NO idea why he needed to see me in person for this conversation, or why it had to wait until now, but he is fighting me on the house.

 

We decided years ago that in the event of death, divorce, breakup - you name it, the house would be mine. The house is in his name although we both put money in. Last year he took over all of the house payments. This was his decision -- money has never been an issue. We had plenty so I didn't think anything of it. The house is all I've ever needed (other than the love and commitment part) in the most basic way. It is my only home, my only security in this world. He today even agreed that yes, it had been his engagement gift to me. But then he also said if he knew five years ago, two years ago, last year that we wouldn't be together he never would have given it as his bond to me. He stated quite clearly - he is going back on his promise.

 

The house is half paid for. He wants to sell because he does not think he should have to pay the mortgage while I live here. Here's the gotcha -- He asked me "What if I get married a year from now? How am I supposed to explain to my new fiancee that even though you and I broke off our engagement a year ago, I am paying your mortgage and will continue to do that for another two to five years?" The bitterness in his voice, the anger, the look on his face. Wow. I must say i reacted very well. Instinct kicked right in and my body calmed. My mind calmed. If I did not know I spent the last eight years of my life loving this person, I would not have recognized him. No kidding. He had a look on his face I have never seen before and it wasn't attractive.

 

He is angry about the money. On the one hand, he can afford it. It's just a fact. Not a judgment. On the other hand, it's money he won't have available to spend on his lover. He feels that any profit realized from selling the house can go to me but he wants 100% of his investment back. Including all money paid in taxes over the years. Internally I say tough-titty. I put money into the house too. I say: "I'm listening." Fine, he says we're having a divorce without having been married and when people divorce, they sell the house. He wants to divide our assets but he isn't dividing them fairly. He suggested we get lawyers. Personally, I would prefer not to do this since the only people who really profit tend to be the lawyers, but I wondered if he really wanted me to fight him? To sue him? This is needlessly acrimonious.

 

People have counseled me to got sue him for palimony. It's unclear whether I have enough grounds to win a settlement that will leave me OK after paying legal fees. Plus I don't relish the headache of court battles. Yuck. There are grounds yes, but I'm not convinced of the need or ethics (just for myself). I would prefer to just be civil and fair to each other. I suppose I'll have to go see someone and be sure now. I really hoped it wouldn't come to this. Will I be forced to out him and his office affair? He would likely be fired. She certainly would be fired. I understand she is waiting out her marriage for at least another six months for immigration reasons... I can't see how a legal battle gets him anything but money and he has so much to lose.

 

He said over and over that he doesn't see how he can move on with his life, start a new life that isn't connected to me if he has to pay the mortgage. Although the threat was hardly immediate, he has no problem kicking me out if I won't reconcile myself with finding a new place of my own somewhere else. Ummm. Like where? I have no family, no ties anywhere other than the ties I have here. I don't have a problem living my life here going forward. I accept my situation. Don't like it but hell, my mother did not raise a stupid child. I GET IT. This is my life. He ridiculed me for suggesting there were several alternative solutions. He didn't like any of my suggestions is more like it.

 

I have a real need to stay at this point. Even with the profit from a sale, the money wouldn't be enough to secure a mortgage on something else, I'd be homeless. I would lose my only remaining family: my dogs. His point, well you'd have x amount of dollars and I'll co-sign a lease on an apartment. Huh? Has he been living with me all these years? I don't need an apartment. An apartment does not solve my dog issue. They are large animals. It does not solve my security issue. And I can pay for my own damn apartment so why would I want his signature on my lease? I didn't understand that statement in light of his wanting not to be financially tied to me so that he won't have to feel connected to me anymore.

 

Yeah, he said that too. LSers -- especially I think LadyJane and OWL? You would all be so proud of me. I did not argue, did not cajole, did not cry, did not bring up his affair, did not threaten, did not raise my voice once, didn't lay any guilt trips. I listened. I stated my viewpoints and my needs. I listened some more. I listened some more again. I took it all, quietly and calmly. And after two hours of this, he finally decided he would think things over and thusly, he left. He no longer needed to go out to eat or see a movie... It's not funny but I wind up smiling at this anyway. So bring on the firemen, bring on the wine and cheese, I hereby declare the next three weeks, the festival in honor of -- ME! Open!!!! Yayyyyy!!!!

[quankanne]

as much as it goes against your nature and better judgement to keep it away from the courts, it's in your best interest to seek legal advice, especially if he's claimed that said house was your GIFT. Last I recall, Dear Abby and Ann Landers -- even Miss Manners have said that the recipient decides the fate of gifts they are given, not the person who gives it!

 

another thought: it sounds as if he's looking to punish you for whatever reasons, and his withdrawing the house from you is evidence of that. Why should you be the nice guy when it's you he wants to royally screw over? Preparedness is your best defense, and in this case, it means retaining legal aid.

[moimeme]

Will I be forced to out him and his office affair? He would likely be fired. She certainly would be fired. I understand she is waiting out her marriage for at least another six months for immigration reasons... I can't see how a legal battle gets him anything but money and he has so much to lose.

 

That's his problem and he should have thought of it before he decided to get nasty. Maybe he thinks you'll just roll over and go along. Don't.

 

He said over and over that he doesn't see how he can move on with his life, start a new life that isn't connected to me if he has to pay the mortgage.

 

Well too damn bad for him, isn't it? Poor baby. He's trying to be a complete jerk to you AND he's whining about the situation he's created for himself. And you're sounding like you're buying it?

 

Absolutely get a lawyer. Chances are you'll never have to go to court. Most things get worked out by communication between lawyers these days. And it's in your best interest to do so. Don't feel sorry for him for one nanosecond. He's made the bed and now he needs to lie in it.

[boursin_cheese]

Thanks Mo and Quank, I think you've got something with the "punish" thought. I'm upset about this mess, still, I have a responsibility of how I focus my thoughts and energy. I don't agree with his argument at all. Being unhappy with the situation doesn't make me indifferent to his expressed point of view about what he needs/wants either. Treating him as my opponent can only attract more conflict. Being open to compromise is the only way for ME to evolve and have peace.

 

What I knew today: there was no fight I could win. I'm not rolling over like I'm his victim or resisting change. I'm embracing reality - I need a home for me and the dogs. IMO, cash doesn't replace the security of a home at this point in time. I'll consult a lawyer. Hopefully, I'm choosing appropriate actions so that I can continue to be accountable for myself and my well-being. And I endeavor to do that with honesty, humility and a willingness to consider alternatives.

 

Perhaps I'm being short-sighted?

b.c.

[moimeme]

Being open to compromise is the only way for ME to evolve and have peace.

 

That's healthy IF it's a fair and reasonable compromise. But sometimes unreasonable people are brought to reasonable compromise by your taking a very firm stand at the beginning. I've just won a case in my favour because my lawyer would not budge past what he felt was fair for me. He took a hard line and they finally relented from their unreasonable position. Don't settle for less than what's fair.

[boursin_cheese]

Your words are bolstering my strength. My inner being is so full of contradictions. It's really good for me to hear what's worked (or not) for you and others dealing... Thank you again.

 

Last night he sent me e-mail late at night wishing me a good night, hoping I would sleep some, saying he would try and sleep too. Stuff like that. Good thoughts and wishes from him. It was a very tender, sweet note that came from his heart so I guess he has his own inner contradictions.

 

I try to concentrate on the business of this as much as possible to not get bogged by emotional fog if I can avoid it... Yet, I'm painfully aware that the third party pushes her own agenda, manipulating him, me - our relating to each other. How much of his upset is fueled by her scheming? He is frustrated and angry and then reaches out to me late at night? I think this must coincide with in-between times when he isn't in contact or with his married lover...

 

I wonder how long it will be (if ever?) before he realizes how self-destructive his behavior is?

[Mr Spock]

If you don't have children together, the correct thing to do is pay him out for his half of the house. If you can't do it, you'll have to sell. Figure out a way to pay him for what he's contributed so you can stay in the house.

[moimeme]

I don't know how your courts work, but when I was divorcing, the legal beagles wanted to know how much each individual had contributed to the home as part of the calculation about who got what. So I don't think it's necessarily a matter of one buying the other out, particularly if one has already put most of the value into the home.

[Mr Spock]

Figure out a way to pay him for what he's contributed so you can stay in the house.

 

 

"half" is a figurative term

[Ladyjane14]

I agree with the other folks who recommended that you seek a legal opinion. You do NOT have to share that fact with him, however. It's best right now that he sees you as cooperative and non-combative. But you do need to know specifically what your legal rights are.

 

This is all pretty fresh, and you still have HUGE in-roads with him emotionally, because it hasn't gotten ugly yet. Right now, it might be best to keep it that way. Nice and friendly.

 

I think you've got a good shot at putting this all back together if you still want him, and if you're willing to take him back after all he's put you through. That's the BIG question, really.

 

If you absolutely would NEVER take him back, then by all means, sell the house and split the money. That would be the most fair thing to do. And I'll be honest....personally, that's what I would do. I wouldn't want somebody back who had ever done me that way.

 

But if you do decide to reconcile at some point....chances are, you'll BOTH be sorry that you let the house go. So, the longer you can hold onto it the better.

 

If you want him back, and you're willing to wait until he resolves his affair with OW, then I'd say STALL. Try to work him for some time. The longer you can stall the decision about the house, the better off you are. There's an above-average possibility that he'll be back.

 

She's married afterall, and chances are his affair with her will NOT last. Particularly if her husband and co-workers find out. I know you're concerned about your man being caught in the fallout, and losing his job. But that would definately put a wrinkle in his plans, wouldn't it?. He would either become more forceful about selling the house in an effort to raise cash, or he would come back to you for help with financial support.

 

Since you want him to give you more time, it's best that he can't bust YOU on the exposure. So if you opt for exposure, make certain someone else does it, and it can't be traced back to you.

 

(I'm not usually a sneaky person....but he is trying to put you out of your home, afterall. )

 

In the meantime, I'd be very sweet and very understanding. You know, grace under fire. You did a great job of that the other night, btw. So, keep doing it. Serenity is your friend.

[boursin_cheese]

Thanks for the input -- I feel like I'm still not being clear? So that helps point out what I am probably saying wrong to the ex... I did get some legal advice today. My lawyer-friend's best advice is for us to work out the details for ourselves and then use a facilitator to help with the legalities... This is makes sense to me.

 

Please remember though, if money was my problem, I wouldn't be so distressed about his demanding we sell our house now. The solution we choose doesn't have to be permanent. I need a secure place to live. Right now I have that and don't think I should rush to give that up without having that anywhere else.

 

I don't have a problem dividing our assets fairly. In terms of the house being the only place I have to call home, there is no way to monetize my need for time and space so that I can re-situate responsibly. That means preparedly and with emotional and financial stability. I'm not willing to flush my life in the toilet to accommodate his time-table.

 

Neither of us lose any equity by waiting. Help me understand if you think I'm not thinking it through fairly... It could just be that you think similarly to my ex and that will help me articulate better later...

 

Thanks, b.c.

[boursin_cheese]

Got another late night letter just in. Sweet, poignant even. Told me about his REALLY boring (minus whatever was spent with his lover - DUH) and lonely sounding day (minus the lover parts again). Wished me a good night. Thanked me for getting together and talking yesterday. He thought it was all very constructive (an odd choice of words for him) and that I was great at staying on track and not letting anything get out of hand. It was vaguely manipulative or he was really wanting to share or both. . . and since I never knew when he was lying before. . .

 

What happened to my three week b.c. festival of fun? Is it time for some NC? Do I keep playing nice because after all, I want to keep living in my house? Or do I not play nice because I want to keep living in my house? Does any of this matter? My natural state is just to be me and if that's a problem well Fs*k it. This is getting weird. It was already weird but I just don't get the honey, sweetie, have a good night, sleep well stuff. Eight letters now in four days. What up with that? Blah blah, blah blah, blah blah blah blah.

 

me, b.c.

[RecordProducer]

He couldn't give you the house as a GIFT as it's not paid for yet. If you consider it a gift then the mortgage is the gift that goes together with the house. You only expect him to give you the house, because it suits you. But this is about what is right and not what suits YOU.

You don't want an apartment, you want a house. There are people with children who rent apartments. You wouldn't be homeless. The judge would probably have little respect for your intimate desire to stay in that particular house as no judge will oblige your husband to pay your mortgage after the divorce is finalized.

You know well that if you go to court, the house will be sold and the assets divided in two equal parts. You don't have children and that's usually how it goes in that case.

You claim to have accepted that his love for you is over, but seem to find it hard to accept that your life with him is over too and you will have to manage on your own from now on. Financially too.

Ask for legal advice and see what the law "thinks" of your situation. In my opinion, you should agree on any terms that would be decided at court. Because there is no sense in going to court if you know you won't get what you want.

By the way, your husband is a very clever person; he told you the house was his gift to you, but put it on his name. Unless you have a legal proof that it's your gift, it's not a gift. Even if you get all the money from the house after it sells, you can't ask from him to pay for it in the future unless he is willing to. You can only be nice to him and negotiate.

[boursin_cheese]

RecordProducer -- your train of thought spelled out pretty clearly what I am NOT after Were you explaining his possible argument when you say that I don't accept that I will have to manage on my own? Or is that really your impression? Hey, I think I'm managing a LOT better than he is in terms of dealing with reality!

 

Look, the investment we made when buying years ago buys roughly HALF of today's value -- we wouldn't be able to afford our current house if we were buying it together all over again today. The values have risen even more on smaller properties, duplexes, condos... Even with profit from a sale in hand, I'm priced out of buying another place for myself. I gave up my previous home to invest with him on this one. No, it still doesn't seem fair to me that my standard of living should be significantly lower than it was before he and I pooled assets and started building a life together...

 

But you know? I would never have been thinking what you wrote out for me and that is helpful... thanks.

 

b.c.