Does anyone else feel we were lied to?

[autumnnight]

I never really had too much exposure to girls because after middle school I went straight to an all-guys high school and I never got invited to parties or anything. I consider myself developmentally challenged and behind because of it. In college, this made socializing with women an absolute pain as I was scared to death of them for no logical reason. I didn't know the first steps to how to get into a relationship or sex. I thought these things just grew on trees, I didn't know there had to be intention behind them. It wasn't until my senior year that I did better.

 

At 24, I'm still a virgin but I've gotten a lot better. I just had a lot of preconceived notions about women which were gotten from places like "game" sites.

 

Don't worry. You are FAR from the only person with preconceived notions. The good news is you have the wherewithal to consider that they may not be accurate.

[Gloria25]

Part of it is our fault as men. We have moved away from what makes us men: controlling the course of our lives.

 

Women have become the dominant gender in most relationships, which has turned men into pathetic little wussies. We need to reclaim our masculinity by resuming control over our own destinies.

 

Women care about men they respect. Therefore, men need to demonstrate respectable behavior. And there is nothing respectable about a pushover, doormat, or weak man who chooses to give up control.

 

Women like men who lead. That doesn't mean to be a chauvinistic pig. But he does need to show strength of character and resolve.

 

I agree with you two fold ^^

 

Two things I heard recently that seem to apply to this thread....

 

-One was court TV. Dude was "courting" a young woman. He bought her this and that, and even paid for her apartment!!! Well, the RL was over and he felt he got played and wanted money back. Judge only gave him money for some expensive shoes he got her.

 

Judge Ross made a good point. He said that he believed in "courting"...but, the way some women take advantage of men is why some men no longer do things like the Plaintiff do now a days. He said when men get "played" they don't go and cry to their guy friends like we women do. Men take it harder. It makes them loose confidence in themselves and trust in women.

 

-Next was talk radio. A guy sitting in for Rush was talking about how women are no longer "sweet". It's all anger and battle of the sexes. And how girls and boys, men and women ARE different and all this "equality" stuff is crap.

 

But, both Judge Ross' and the radio guy's point go back to the women's movement. Women are being turned into "partners", "equals". And, with this, women are losing their femininity. They are harsh and abrasive. They no longer do things like cooking, cleaning, and just "serving" their man. Any of that is seen as being "submissive".

 

What is so bad about brining your guy a beer or lemonade if he's outside working on your car, cutting the grass, etc? NNOOOOOO, it is equal. Everything must be split down the middle.

 

Lately, my fav podcaster is getting a lot of calls where people who are shacking up and/or married and young - where the woman (not the guy) is upset because the guy won't split the house cleaning cuz both of them work (because we revert back to our feminine ways that are ingrained in us - which is to nurture, which includes cleaning).

 

Well, my fav podcaster gets mad and just tells the woman to stop getting angry and for them to put money together and hire a maid. But, I think it is sad where women have to "outsource" someone to cook, clean, and/or care for her man, kids, and home. For that, why did you get into a RL and/or married? Geesh, some women even get so busy with their careers/jobs in trying to be more of a "partner/equal" that "outsourcing" of sex is taking place (i.e. him going to porn, mistress, prostitutes).

 

I think the women's movement has made women angry. I believe I often am one of those angry women. Like my fave podcaster said, 'we women are at peace when we do things that biologically we were made to do'. I feel good when I cook for my family, guy I'm dating, friends. I like cleaning. I like painting my nails. I like sexing the guy I'm dating. I liked brining my FWB a coffee when he was in the cold working on my vehicle, a glass of wine, a beer, etc. When I was hostile, young, and new to the women's movement I didn't want to learn how to cook. You'd never catch me brining a guy a glass of water.

 

Now, another reason why the women's movement has made women angry? Cuz, while they're out there trying to be a "partner/equal". They are being taken away from sex, their husbands, and/or their kids so the can spend their 8 hrs or more a day being a "worker bee". They come home tired and can't enjoy a thing.

 

Then, they're being told to go out there and have sex like men. Shacking up is ok. So, they're out there sleeping around, getting pumped and dumped and/or playing "house" with Tom, Dick, and Harry.

 

Then, they are being told not to appreciate romance and/or chivalry. Open a door for a woman now a days, she might look at you like you're crazy. Bring flowers to a date, she may see you as a doormat.

 

Sorry for the rant, but IMO, women are what they are now a days cuz the women's movement has f-d up so much. Women "think" they are happier by trying to become a "partner" and/or "equal" and they are becoming abrasive, used, and just miserable. Sad thing is they are so bullheaded not to recognize and/or acknowledge that they were lied to by the women's movement - in part, cuz they have gained somewhat of an advantage over men and don't wanna let that go either.

Edited March 15, 2015 by Gloria25

[Woggle]

Equal relationships are good and I am glad I have one but there is a huge difference between an equal relationship and an antagonistic relationship which a lot of people don't get. There are some women who have so much anger towards men that they only know how to have an antagonistic relationship and when any self respecting man avoids that like the plague we are accused of having fragile egos are being afraid of strong women.

[Gloria25]

Equal relationships are good and I am glad I have one but there is a huge difference between an equal relationship and an antagonistic relationship which a lot of people don't get. There are some women who have so much anger towards men that they only know how to have an antagonistic relationship and when any self respecting man avoids that like the plague we are accused of having fragile egos are being afraid of strong women.

 

Let me ask you this, do you really, really, believe that you and your SO are "equals"? Or, do you believe you and your SO come together and form a "team/unit"?

 

When you look at men and women physically, men are built with strength - especially upper body strength - which ties into their inherent desire to "provide and protect" because they were "built" to do that.

 

Women, we have hormones. We comfort, we nurture. Our men come to us for that. They need/require us to do that. Mothers do that for boys, who turn to their wives/women to take over that role.

 

Lemme use an example. A child scrapes its knee. Dad comes over and says "Ah, it's not that bad. Get up". Mom comes and is like "Oooh, let mommy kiss that boo-boo". Both handle the situation differently - but he child comes out with a "balanced" result, which is Dad teaches strength and confidence, Mom teaches nurturing and caring.

 

I see men and women having "different" (not the same/equal) qualities, but they come together and form a "team".

 

When you have all this "gender bending" and "equality" talk, the lines get blurred and that's why we have a lot of confusion and crap now a days. And, IMO, it isn't gonna get any better.

[Woggle]

Let me ask you this, do you really, really, believe that you and your SO are "equals"? Or, do you believe you and your SO come together and form a "team/unit"?

 

When you look at men and women physically, men are built with strength - especially upper body strength - which ties into their inherent desire to "provide and protect" because they were "built" to do that.

 

Women, we have hormones. We comfort, we nurture. Our men come to us for that. They need/require us to do that. Mothers do that for boys, who turn to their wives/women to take over that role.

 

Lemme use an example. A child scrapes its knee. Dad comes over and says "Ah, it's not that bad. Get up". Mom comes and is like "Oooh, let mommy kiss that boo-boo". Both handle the situation differently - but he child comes out with a "balanced" result, which is Dad teaches strength and confidence, Mom teaches nurturing and caring.

 

I see men and women having "different" (not the same/equal) qualities, but they come together and form a "team".

 

When you have all this "gender bending" and "equality" talk, the lines get blurred and that's why we have a lot of confusion and crap now a days. And, IMO, it isn't gonna get any better.

We are not entirely the same but we have equal value, status and power which is what matters.

[Gloria25]

We are not entirely the same but we have equal value, status and power which is what matters.

 

But your point that you and your SO are equal in value and/or status and power (which may be because you both have similar/same wages/assets) is not the same thing being argued with all this "equality" crap.

 

Men are being told that being a man/boy is wrong. For example, boys in school are being medicated and called ADD/ADHD, when fact is boys can't sit still. They learn different.

 

Women are told that they have a "right" to serve in combat roles side-by-side with males - when fact is, the physical differences in females may limit a woman's ability to handle the environment that serving in a combat role entails (i.e. no PMS days, hygiene, men wanting to bone them, having to carry another man and his battle gear across a battlefield if he gets shot/hit).

[Woggle]

But your point that you and your SO are equal in value and/or status and power (which may be because you both have similar/same wages/assets) is not the same thing being argued with all this "equality" crap.

 

Men are being told that being a man/boy is wrong. For example, boys in school are being medicated and called ADD/ADHD, when fact is boys can't sit still. They learn different.

 

Women are told that they have a "right" to serve in combat roles side-by-side with males - when fact is, the physical differences in females may limit a woman's ability to handle the environment that serving in a combat role entails (i.e. no PMS days, hygiene, men wanting to bone them, having to carry another man and his battle gear across a battlefield if he gets shot/hit).

 

You are right about trying to medicate boys and how masculinity is demonized but I think we should let people be themselves as long as they aren't hurting anybody. If a woman can pass the requirements for combat they should be able to serve. I don't think the standards should be lowered but if they pass why not?

[NGC1300]

When you grew up, were there not women around? I find it hard to believe that 1) you grew up only around men who told you these things, and you even went to all-male schools where the other guys were telling you these "lies", or 2) you grew up around women who were acting like sweet princesses all the time and never let their true colors show.

 

For my part, I grew up having quite a bit of exposure to women. It was never a surprise to find out they act like humans and not like cartoon characters.

 

I didn't date until 18.

 

I would say my first taste of how vile women can be would be around the time I was in middle school .

[carhill]

When you grew up, were there not women around?

Lots. Mostly SAHM's. Probably a half-dozen or so peer girls on our street. Had a lot of fun. The mom's were generally stern but loving. Good neighborhood, as far as the women and girls went.

I find it hard to believe that 1) you grew up only around men who told you these things

Strongest male role model was father and I don't recall other fathers in the neighborhood publicly talking down women, at all. However, as I got into my teenage years I noted more yelling at and abuse by fathers of their spouses than I had as a younger boy. That was about the time young males started beating on each other and me. Comparatively, the girls were well behaved and non-violent.

and you even went to all-male schools where the other guys were telling you these "lies"'

Ha, my high school had integrated the genders only two years before I started. It was a private religious school system and, even though I didn't do well dating the rich, religious girls, they were unfailingly polite; never mean or abusive or manipulative.

or 2) you grew up around women who were acting like sweet princesses all the time and never let their true colors show.

For the most part, yeah, they were basically good people, in public anyway. I struggle to think of an exception until I left college and hit the work world. That's when reality reared its ugly head. By then, though, socialization, role-modeling and integration with female peers had written some pretty strong messages that took years, even decades to erase. I still fight the tendencies today. Gotta remember there is guile and deceit and evil in the world and, yup, it comes in soft and sexy packages sometimes.

 

For my part, I grew up having quite a bit of exposure to women. It was never a surprise to find out they act like humans and not like cartoon characters.

My problem was I thought what I had experienced was what humans were like. Bzzt, fail.

 

 

ETA, ha, just remembered that, when my mom got ill and exW and I started visiting the old neighborhood more, she got to know some of the neighbors, still there after all those decades, and watched myself and them interact and opined that I must have grown up like 'Beaver Cleaver' (her words). Like a TV show. That's pretty much it.

Edited March 15, 2015 by carhill

[Anela]

I didn't date until 18.

 

I would say my first taste of how vile women can be would be around the time I was in middle school .

 

And I experienced how vile men could be, when one strangled me when I was five. Would you strangle a little girl? I don't think that many men would.

[gaius]

I always thought women in general were exceptionally forgiving. Like I was fat and gross in high school but as soon as I lost the extra weight and got into decent shape I ended up with a ton of attention, more than I wanted, even from some who had known me before. They didn't hold it against me.

 

So basically if you put in the effort to develop the skills that would charm them they'd be interested and wouldn't hold your past, less than thrilling attitude against you. It doesn't get much more loving than that.

[Gloria25]

Why bother losing the weight? Just tell the ladies that curvy men are more attractive.

 

Men don't get "curvy"...they get "bellies", "man breasts", and/or "rolls".

[Gloria25]

Women get back fat and cankles!

 

And cellulite!!!

[Mangina]

Why bother losing the weight? Just tell the ladies that curvy men are more attractive.

 

This reminds me of that thread with cubby girls from the cosmos

[Eggplant]

Girls learn that girls are in general not angels starting in elementary school, when girls form cliques and are mean to each other.

[toolforgrowth]

I agree with you two fold ^^

 

Two things I heard recently that seem to apply to this thread....

 

-One was court TV. Dude was "courting" a young woman. He bought her this and that, and even paid for her apartment!!! Well, the RL was over and he felt he got played and wanted money back. Judge only gave him money for some expensive shoes he got her.

 

Judge Ross made a good point. He said that he believed in "courting"...but, the way some women take advantage of men is why some men no longer do things like the Plaintiff do now a days. He said when men get "played" they don't go and cry to their guy friends like we women do. Men take it harder. It makes them loose confidence in themselves and trust in women.

 

-Next was talk radio. A guy sitting in for Rush was talking about how women are no longer "sweet". It's all anger and battle of the sexes. And how girls and boys, men and women ARE different and all this "equality" stuff is crap.

 

But, both Judge Ross' and the radio guy's point go back to the women's movement. Women are being turned into "partners", "equals". And, with this, women are losing their femininity. They are harsh and abrasive. They no longer do things like cooking, cleaning, and just "serving" their man. Any of that is seen as being "submissive".

 

What is so bad about brining your guy a beer or lemonade if he's outside working on your car, cutting the grass, etc? NNOOOOOO, it is equal. Everything must be split down the middle.

 

Lately, my fav podcaster is getting a lot of calls where people who are shacking up and/or married and young - where the woman (not the guy) is upset because the guy won't split the house cleaning cuz both of them work (because we revert back to our feminine ways that are ingrained in us - which is to nurture, which includes cleaning).

 

Well, my fav podcaster gets mad and just tells the woman to stop getting angry and for them to put money together and hire a maid. But, I think it is sad where women have to "outsource" someone to cook, clean, and/or care for her man, kids, and home. For that, why did you get into a RL and/or married? Geesh, some women even get so busy with their careers/jobs in trying to be more of a "partner/equal" that "outsourcing" of sex is taking place (i.e. him going to porn, mistress, prostitutes).

 

I think the women's movement has made women angry. I believe I often am one of those angry women. Like my fave podcaster said, 'we women are at peace when we do things that biologically we were made to do'. I feel good when I cook for my family, guy I'm dating, friends. I like cleaning. I like painting my nails. I like sexing the guy I'm dating. I liked brining my FWB a coffee when he was in the cold working on my vehicle, a glass of wine, a beer, etc. When I was hostile, young, and new to the women's movement I didn't want to learn how to cook. You'd never catch me brining a guy a glass of water.

 

Now, another reason why the women's movement has made women angry? Cuz, while they're out there trying to be a "partner/equal". They are being taken away from sex, their husbands, and/or their kids so the can spend their 8 hrs or more a day being a "worker bee". They come home tired and can't enjoy a thing.

 

Then, they're being told to go out there and have sex like men. Shacking up is ok. So, they're out there sleeping around, getting pumped and dumped and/or playing "house" with Tom, Dick, and Harry.

 

Then, they are being told not to appreciate romance and/or chivalry. Open a door for a woman now a days, she might look at you like you're crazy. Bring flowers to a date, she may see you as a doormat.

 

Sorry for the rant, but IMO, women are what they are now a days cuz the women's movement has f-d up so much. Women "think" they are happier by trying to become a "partner" and/or "equal" and they are becoming abrasive, used, and just miserable. Sad thing is they are so bullheaded not to recognize and/or acknowledge that they were lied to by the women's movement - in part, cuz they have gained somewhat of an advantage over men and don't wanna let that go either.

 

Best. Post. EVER.

 

I fully recognize that half the problem is men and that we need to own our part. It's really refreshing to see a reasonable woman acknowledge the other half of the issue that women are responsible for.

[Woggle]

Best. Post. EVER.

 

I fully recognize that half the problem is men and that we need to own our part. It's really refreshing to see a reasonable woman acknowledge the other half of the issue that women are responsible for.

 

Yup. The animosity between men and women will never heal unless both sides can admit how we got to this point.

[Anela]

Sorry, but I wasn't biologically made to cook, and it's better for the people around me if I'm not stuck in the kitchen for hours.

[No Limit]

This "I feel I was lied to"-feeling works both ways. Many women thought managing the household, being faithful, kind and patient with their husband and giving birth to his children would make him happy and ready to settle for happy-ever-after. Well, OW(s) proved otherwise.

 

My generation is too screwed up in the head. I'll leave the relationship drama to people with more interest in pleasing people who expect everything must be fixed by the partner or else it's all his fault and the usual blameshifting.

[toolforgrowth]

Sorry, but I wasn't biologically made to cook, and it's better for the people around me if I'm not stuck in the kitchen for hours.

 

That was merely one example. I'm the cook in my household; I was when I was married, and I'll still be when my GF moves in this summer. I don't mind because I like cooking, it's one of my favorite hobbies.

 

I don't mind doing some domestic stuff. I just don't want to be the only one doing them.

[Nikki Sahagin]

I'm caring, affectionate and empathetic.

 

Honestly, I think when people complain about men and women it's less about men and women as a whole and more about their individual experiences.

 

You have to remember, most people at their CORE are kind and caring. I believe most human beings are hardwired to crave love and companionship. Not only sex. Whether we chase love in a conventional relationship or another way, we ALL want to be loved; it's part of the human condition.

 

But many people conceal this part of themselves. If you are finding the women (or men) you meet, to be different to what you expect, consider:

 

* Are you attracting or attracted to a certain type?

* Are you attracted to women who are physically gorgeous but lacking in character?

* Are you playing out old relationship habits?

* Be aware that many women are harassed/bothered/catcalled quite often and put up a wall/barrier around men just to be left alone sometimes; often if you speak to a woman like a real person (not saying you don't), the wall will drop. But many women are so used to lines/manipulation, that they become a kind of characature or parody of femininity to hope that the right man will make more effort to find her true self.

 

It's similar with men too i.e. all the bravado and silliness is largely an attempt at saying, 'look at me, look at me!'

[Anela]

That was merely one example. I'm the cook in my household; I was when I was married, and I'll still be when my GF moves in this summer. I don't mind because I like cooking, it's one of my favorite hobbies.

 

I don't mind doing some domestic stuff. I just don't want to be the only one doing them.

 

I was responding to the long post before yours, that came from Gloria (I think). I saw what you wrote in another thread, about making sure that your daughter is praised for being smart, as well as cute. That's good - it seems as though we're just expected to be pretty, and submissive/attentive to others, and for those of us who aren't pretty? Too bad. We are individuals, born with our own minds, personalities, strengths and weaknesses, and I would never want to go back to a time in which we were basically owned by men.

 

My Dad is a good cook, as well. I was just thinking that he didn't have the best example of marriage, as a child, but he got himself a job delivering papers, to pay for his own clothing and anything else he needed, and then joined the Air Force, which got him out of Ohio. Then he met and married my mother. I have a lot of respect for him , and I'm glad that my parents got back together when they did.