Freud on Religion

[d'Arthez]

I totally disagree with this Chris, but let me add a few remarks.

 

The cell is not the simplest life form. Science believes that it took millions of years to create something that is cell-like, after the inception of life on earth. As noted earlier the female-male split is supposed to be only 300 million years old - a fraction of the time life existed on the planet.

 

The 90% figure is way off. Pharmaceutical companies make 60 percent of their revenues in the US. Why? Because in most other parts of the world, the free market for drugs does not exist. In Europe a lot of medicines are a lot cheaper than in the US.

 

5 billion years is the approximate age of our solar system. 12-15 billion years is the approximate age of the universe. The universe is bigger than the solar system.

 

Anti-biotics are not breeding resistances. Wrong use and over usage are the cause of that. Some people experience difficulty with breathing, outside of the polluted city environments, in which they lived.

 

Who is to tell that your subjective "evidence" in God is more true, than the so called subjective evidence in science? Pray to God, and be as Susia, and show science the before and after.

 

Buddhism is strictly speaking no religion. It has no God. That there exists all kinds of forms of Buddhism, does not invalidate this point.

 

Yes we still use aspirin. Why? Because it works. You are not given mustard-gas. Why? Because it will make your condition much worse, as the soldiers of WW I found out in the trenches. Science does not distribute medicines randomly. It makes little sense to give someone who suffers from a flu Depakote.

 

Your Nephilium explanation does not make sense, for you would admit what you deny.

 

And don't confuse science with politics. Destructive weaponry are used in Iraq. Not because Bush or a scientist has developed them, but because Bush chooses to allow this.

 

The earth could be round as a circle and still flat. Of course that is not true.

 

I can claim that I saw the Titanic sink, but given my age, that would require a vision. Do we accept a vision as proof enough that it was thus? I should envision myself as US President then ...

 

Oh, and Abraham was not a leader? Noah was not elected? The truth is that many of the prophets seemed hesitant to take on the role of prophet. As a Christian you can't dismiss the Old Testament.

And if you are so afraid of false prophets, look at it from the standpoint of Judaism. Again, Judaism makes at least as much sense; and the Christian God is a Jewish God in origin.

 

Moses did not part the Red Sea. It is only when the first person took a plunge that the sea parted. Faith!

 

The problem with your views on religion is of course that there are hundreds of variations of Christianity. Which one is right? The Orthodox, the Catholic, the Lutheran, the Calvinistic, Church of England, Church of Denmark, Church of the Netherlands, the Reformed? Surely the scripture must hold the answer to that one. Say if the true Church is the Church of Denmark, does not it feel great to be a sucker and be sentenced to eternal damnation, because you chose the wrong faith? Uplifting thought, and one thought God certainly would not entertain.

 

For instance the word that is used to be referred to as 'rib', out of which Eve was created, is only used there in the Bible. It could be toe-nail. Who knows? We can't find that out, as the language in which it was written does not exist in the same way anymore.

 

I don't know about you, but I dont want the knowledge, that dumping chemicals into the environment causes cancer, and birth defects, I dont want the knowledge that drinking drano, will melt a persons insides, I dont want the knowledge of hiroshima. Look at both sides of the coin that is science.

If you don't want the knowledge, would you allow the dumping of the chemicals in your backyard? Without proof of the harmful effects it is something which cannot be opposed as effectively, than with the proof.

The decision to bomb Hiroshima was not made by a scientist. It was made by the U.S. President Truman.

Again to blame science for idiocy, but leave out the political thing, is absurd.

[Moose]

I read it all......great stuff.......I'm wondering if I sleep walk afterall. No wonder I'm so tired......

The 90% figure is way off. Pharmaceutical companies make 60 percent of their revenues in the US. Why? Because in most other parts of the world, the free market for drugs does not exist. In Europe a lot of medicines are a lot cheaper than in the US.

This is so friggin' typical of someone TRYING to prove someone wrong. The percentages isn't the point......

5 billion years is the approximate age of our solar system. 12-15 billion years is the approximate age of the universe. The universe is bigger than the solar system.

And you of all people should know this.....for sure, because you were there.....right?

I can claim that I saw the Titanic sink, but given my age, that would require a vision. Do we accept a vision as proof enough that it was thus? I should envision myself as US President then ...

WAIT, OH, I see.....you use whatever whenever......are you the scientist that performed all the tests and carbon dating to estimate the age of the Earth and the Solar System? Yet you still believe in it enough to tell us without a doubt that it is?.......what's with the double standard? It's comments like these that cause me to look the other way when you post......you hold no water.

[blind_otter]

Maybe it's me off my antiseizure meds but I totally did not understand Chris777's post. I couldn't figure out when he was quoting or what.

[d'Arthez]

Originally posted by Moose

I read it all......great stuff.......I'm wondering if I sleep walk afterall. No wonder I'm so tired......This is so friggin' typical of someone TRYING to prove someone wrong. The percentages isn't the point......

No, but if you are willingly misrepresenting the facts, there is no way you can logically debate.

 

And you of all people should know this.....for sure, because you were there.....right?

It's logical that something that is bigger, can differ in age from something that is but a small part of the whole. And I had the clear impression that Chris was messing the two up.

 

WAIT, OH, I see.....you use whatever whenever......are you the scientist that performed all the tests and carbon dating to estimate the age of the Earth and the Solar System? Yet you still believe in it enough to tell us without a doubt that it is?.......what's with the double standard? It's comments like these that cause me to look the other way when you post......you hold no water.

No, Chris mentioned:

Jesus confirmed , both the Creation, as well as the Flood. Now either he Lied, or he believed them, and If he was who he said he was He witnessed them.

 

I have not seen the movie Titanic for obvious reasons. I can imagine what happened, and even envision what happened. I can call myself a reincarnation of a false prophet, and say I saw whatever in which ever identity. Does that make me a true prophet? Of course not. Does that make everything that I believe true? Of course not.

Either my words are true, or they are not true. My identity has nothing to do with the truth of my statements, unless I was to refer to my own private personal experiences. Which is clearly not the case in abovementioned situation.

 

Carbon dating is accurate until 40.000 years ago, roughly speaking. You can't go further back than that with any reliability. But there are other radioactive atoms, that allow in principle to go much further back in time.

[Moose]

You don't understand. You use words like, "logical", "accurate", "approximate"......YOU DON"T KNOW FOR SURE......plain and simple. No one does but God.

My identity has nothing to do with the truth of my statements, unless I was to refer to my own private personal experiences.

This applies to every single, solitary soul that walked the Earth! Christ, was there....the beginning of Life as we know it WAS His personal experience......His word is above ALL......why? Because He is the Alpha, and the Omega......He is the Great I Am......of course it isn't logical to our feeble human minds.......we have NO CLUE what is accurate, or even approximate because we DO NOT have the capability to understand it. That's why I've willingly placed my faith in Christ, I don't need scientific explanations on where dinosaur bones came from, how old the Earth is, yada, yada.....I'm smart enough to know that it's not within my capabilities to fully understand....it's a waste of energy to even try.

[tokyo]

How about doing a little experiment. Everybody who scorns science and has faith please stop taking any medications and start with praying. Any volunteers?

[Moose]

Originally posted by kooky

How about doing a little experiment. Everybody who scorns science and has faith please stop taking any medications and start with praying. Any volunteers?

Interesting concept. I'm afraid I couldn't possibly stop my meds, God did give us little common sense.

[blind_otter]

Originally posted by kooky

How about doing a little experiment. Everybody who scorns science and has faith please stop taking any medications and start with praying. Any volunteers?

 

Don't christian scientists do this? They don't get ANY medical care because it's all God's will?

[RecordProducer]

Originally posted by XNemesisX

I don't see how anyone can dog on Freud. He alone pretty much established psychology as a science. The other reputable psychologists, moi, all built their ideas off of Freud. Sure, some of his theories sound a little loony but give him some credit. He was brilliant. Other psychologists have revised his theories. I highly doubt psychology would be what it is today without Freud.

 

 

Dear Nemesis, few of these people (if not none of them) have actually read Freud so their comments are as legitimate as if you and I were discussing the magnetic fields of planets and their interaction in the solar system. But we wouldn't dare talk about things we have no knowledge of, right? The ignorance of certain people is even sadder when you hear them make "scientific" conclusions about the veracity of his theories. They ignore the fact that he is the father of psychology; they don't even know that nearly the whole opus of his books is applied in psychotherapy. They think Freud is Britney Spears and they can comment his work as "I like it" or "I don't like it."

In my opinion, you overestimated your audience when you posted notes about Freud.

[RecordProducer]

Originally posted by kooky

How about doing a little experiment. Everybody who scorns science and has faith please stop taking any medications and start with praying. Any volunteers?

Although I don't believe in God, if I did, I would say "God gave us medications! God created intelligent beings to evolve in scientists, doctors, artists, etc."

God is a matter of faith. I think nowadays nobody believes in a bearded uncle up in the sky who watces everything and sends people to hell or heaven.

The human race is above those backward beliefs. God doesn't influence people but in the positive way of giving them faith, stamina to endure life difficulties, comfort when you can't beat the problems, and a codex of honor that gives sense to our good deeds.

[Moose]

In my opinion, you overestimated your audience when you posted notes about Freud.

You included......obviously. You haven't gathered anything from this thread have you? Freud, Socrates, or even Ernest.....doesn't friggin' matter.....we are all mere men who DO NOT have the capacity to be an authority over any religion.

[blind_otter]

Originally posted by RecordProducer

Dear Nemesis, few of these people (if not none of them) have actually read Freud so their comments are as legitimate as if you and I were discussing the magnetic fields of planets and their interaction in the solar system. But we wouldn't dare talk about things we have no knowledge of, right? The ignorance of certain people is even sadder when you hear them make "scientific" conclusions about the veracity of his theories. They ignore the fact that he is the father of psychology; they don't even know that nearly the whole opus of his books is applied in psychotherapy. They think Freud is Britney Spears and they can comment his work as "I like it" or "I don't like it."

In my opinion, you overestimated your audience when you posted notes about Freud.

 

Ah speak for yourself.

 

I dislike Freud with a white hot intensity. I think his theories, although applicable with the current thinking of the time, are drivel based on his own neurotic insecurities.

 

And yes, I have read Freud, extensively, I have a stupid BS in psychology, for what it's worth, and I dropped out of a graduate psych program here because lately I think psychology in general is filled with self-absorbed, moronic asswipes that hurt their patients more than they help them. I have a problem with the professional field. IME, the therapists (of the 8 that I have seen) that helped me the most had something that couldn't be taught. A certain empathic sensitivity and compassion.

[RecordProducer]

Well not everyone who has a BS in psychology was born to be a psychologist just like not everyone who has a BA in music has the same potential and talent to be a successful musician. Some people see things in several dimensions, some see them in one (or none) dimension. Just because YOU don't understand Freud's theories or disagree with him for whatever reason doesn't make Freud a loser. You said yourself that psychology is stupid so obviously you mistakened your occupation.

I took a course of sewing a few years ago. I was really bad at it, didn't learn anything. That didn't make me think that sewing is crap overall. It's me that sucked in it.

 

Moose, I refuse to think of all people as equally smart. I choose science over theology. People invented god and wrote the bible. God didn't come to earth to tell us anything. You speak in his name while he remains silent.

[Moose]

Moose, I refuse to think of all people as equally smart.

Where do you see I said everyone is equally smart?

I choose science over theology.

Good for you I guess. Bad for the Church body as a whole who'd welcome you with open arms.

People invented god and wrote the bible.

I can't begin to tell you how wrong you are. (Only my opinion), and I'm gathering this is just your opinion and not the say all, end all.

You speak in his name while he remains silent.

Didn't you just say that He didn't exsist? That He was invented? How can you determine in one sentence that He doesn't exsist, then say that I speak in His name? You're confusing me. (Not really, but......).

[ConfusedInOC]

Originally posted by RecordProducer

I choose science over theology.

 

The great thing about God is he gives you the choice to believe. He doesn't force anything on you. But he will accept you with open arms should you decide to spark up the relationship. The invitation is always there. Even Einstein believed in God.

 

People invented god and wrote the bible.

 

To believe this is to require every bit as much faith as being a believer does.

 

God didn't come to earth to tell us anything. You speak in his name while he remains silent.

 

God said everything he needed to already. It's in the bible. He's not going to talk our ears off. You either believe or you don't.

 

I can't tell you how much better my life is since I began my relationship with the Lord. I have so much inner strength and am never alone. RP, I'll pray for you.

[RecordProducer]

Okay Moose, you speak in the name of something that has never given us any proofs if "its" existence. I know too much about what Christianity did to people. It killed and ruled in the cruelest way. It brutally executed scientists in order to preserve the dark age and ignorance. They were always close to the royal families who cared little about morality and justice. Nowadays, when science is so developed, some religions have lost their power, including Christianity. The Islam is still very powerful and in Islamic nations the religion comes first then everything else.

Give me one single good proof that god exists.

 

I certainly apologize for speaking against your faith and beliefs, it's very stupid from me, but I just can't resist. After all, neither of us think we're better or worse because we believe or disbelieve in God.

 

Confused, the bible was written by PEOPLE.

[blind_otter]

Originally posted by RecordProducer

Well not everyone who has a BS in psychology was born to be a psychologist just like not everyone who has a BA in music has the same potential and talent to be a successful musician. Some people see things in several dimensions, some see them in one (or none) dimension. Just because YOU don't understand Freud's theories or disagree with him for whatever reason doesn't make Freud a loser. You said yourself that psychology is stupid so obviously you mistakened your occupation.

I took a course of sewing a few years ago. I was really bad at it, didn't learn anything. That didn't make me think that sewing is crap overall. It's me that sucked in it.

 

Moose, I refuse to think of all people as equally smart. I choose science over theology. People invented god and wrote the bible. God didn't come to earth to tell us anything. You speak in his name while he remains silent.

 

defensive, much?

 

I dislike Freud's theories. Think they are drivel. Never said he was a loser.

 

I also said the my BS in psychology was stupid, I think the curriculum was thin and the professors were more interested in their research and using their teaching assistants and students as free labor.

 

I worked with severelly mentally ill men for a time when I was in undergrad. I had a lot of good work over there and did have a knack for it. I have also done a lot of work with hospice over here, and terminally ill patients. I dislike the professional field of psychology in general.

 

Personal attacks are only successful if they are based on accurately processed information.

 

By the way you are equally close minded if you reject something you can't possibly understand. ie, God.

[ConfusedInOC]

Originally posted by RecordProducer

Confused, the bible was written by PEOPLE.

 

It's God's word, that's enough for me.

 

FWIW, I used to think like you, RP. Not saying it's bad. It took me some time to come around. I am glad I did.

[Moose]

Give me one single good proof that god exists.

That's too easy...... Look into your child's eyes. Feel that feeling? Imagine her or him being snatched away from you.....feel that feeling? Remember the 2 planes crashing into the twin towers.....feel that feeling? There's no possible way that came from stardust honey.

[RecordProducer]

Blind_Otter, you of all people here would be the last I would personally attack. I just think that not everyone found themselves in the field they obtained their degree in. Perhaps psychology doesn't suit you. After all, you're doing something else in your life, you're not a psychologist. Just like I have a degree in business administration/marketing, but am engaged in music.

[blind_otter]

Well part of the reason I dislike Freud is because I really like Jung, but in the long run I am more into humanistic/existential psychology - Carl Rogers, Abraham Maslow, and Viktor Frankl happen to by my psychologists that I love and defend passionately.

 

Try reading "Toward A Psychology of Being" by Maslow. Or "Man's Search for Meaning" by Frankl. They are eye openers.

[RecordProducer]

Moose, you're talking spirituality and philosophy here. Who created us? Why do we live and die? Why do we love and hate, enjoy and suffer?

I see no connection of these wonders to institutions like the Church.

[Moose]

Originally posted by RecordProducer

Moose, you're talking spirituality and philosophy here. Who created us? Why do we live and die? Why do we love and hate, enjoy and suffer?

I see no connection of these wonders to institutions like the Church.

That's a tragedy........really.

[RecordProducer]

What's the god in my heart has to do with institutions like the Church or the Mosque? They are fake establishments that use people's faith to rule the mobs. Always have been... How do you explain the Inquisition and the dark age?

[Moose]

Originally posted by RecordProducer

What's the god in my heart has to do with institutions like the Church or the Mosque? They are fake establishments that use people's faith to rule the mobs. Always have been... How do you explain the Inquisition and the dark age?

Absolutley nothing. I don't know the, "god", in your heart. I only know the One True God....and He had nothing to do with man's actions during that time.