whowants2no Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 I will be going to court for my divorce in the next few weeks. I have been living off cash the past 6 months, and putting aside a good pile. My ex wife's lawyer is sure I have that pile but can't prove it, if I just keep saying I have spent it all is there anything they can do about it, and will I need to prove what I spent it on. (receipts) I did ask my lawyer about it and he said not to ask him about things like that for he could loose his license. Anybody have help with this Thanks Link to post Share on other sites
d0nnivain Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 A lawyer can't tell you how to defraud a spouse. If that money was earned during the marriage & started out in an account with your EXs name on it, part of it belonged to your spouse. So even though you spent it, you could be required to repay it. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Toodaloo Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Be very careful when playing games like this. I understand that you want to protect yourself but ultimately you could end up causing many a problem... Link to post Share on other sites
Michelle ma Belle Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 A lawyer can't tell you how to defraud a spouse. If that money was earned during the marriage & started out in an account with your EXs name on it, part of it belonged to your spouse. So even though you spent it, you could be required to repay it. This is what happened to a friend of mine. Be VERY careful. There are ways to figure this stuff out especially when you have a spouse and a lawyer hell bent on proving it you're stashing money. If there is even a hint of fraud of any kind going on it may cost you BIG time and not just in cash. Link to post Share on other sites
BetrayedH Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 I'm not an attorney so, take this for what's it's worth. Typically during a divorce, all assets obtained during the marriage are marital assets. That includes any cash that you may have stashed away. There's typically a cut-off date (such as a date of legal separation) where anything you have earned after that date is yours alone. In my state, I was required to disclose 7 years of financials. That means EVERYTHING. It was a laborious task. I highly suggest that you disclose everything required. Judges do not take kindly to even a hint that a spouse is hiding any assets. If you had any cash, disclose it and what it was spent on. It likely won't amount to much considering that half of it was yours and if any of it was used for marital obligations, it may not count against you at all. It's better to let all that get settled in the wash of a bunch of other financial math than it is to have an angry judge that thinks you're committing fraud. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
carhill Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 IMO, if this is someone with a real pile of cash, they'd have some professionals watching it very carefully. As it is, simply pay careful attention to lifestyle testing and forensic accounting and you should be fine. Your lawyer can give you advice on civil and criminal penalties for various actions, both legal and illegal. They do that all the time. They generally cannot give advice to do something that could be illegal, as they are officers of the court, but certainly can provide advice as to risks and penalties should you choose to explore a course of action. Gain as much knowledge and input as you can, make a decision and deal with the consequences. Adversarial relations are a part of human existence; just ask the folks with the big piles of money how they got them, and ask for the non-sanitized version. Heh... Oh, yeah, expect your spouse to be doing exactly the same thing. No prisoners. Link to post Share on other sites
Radu Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 To add to BH's post ... it is especially dangerous if you are a guy and comitting this ... while not exactly being a narcissist. Also ... to plead poverty you have to live poverty; have you lived poverty for the last 6 months or were all bills paid on time. Link to post Share on other sites
Author whowants2no Posted March 18, 2015 Author Share Posted March 18, 2015 not pleading poverty just have cash piling up that they can't prove I have. They are sure I have it but can't prove anything right now Link to post Share on other sites
Author whowants2no Posted March 18, 2015 Author Share Posted March 18, 2015 I guess my question is, if they ask where all the money went and I say I have been living it up the last 6 months since the ex moved out will that be enough, or will I have to show evidence of spending it Link to post Share on other sites
badpenny Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Of course you'll have to show evidence! No reasonable lawyer, judge or solicitor would simply take your word for it! If you say you've spent it, they are definitely going to want verifiable evidence to that effect. If a murder suspect says he has an alibi, the Police are not going to turn round and say, "Oh it's ok, he can't have done it, he says he went to his friend's house for the day," they're going to want to verify, check and ensure the guy is being honest. Same with your claims. Link to post Share on other sites
BlueIris Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 You could be subject to sanctions and an order to pay her attorneys fees and costs for a forensic accounting. Personally I think it's foolish to play games with the court. Link to post Share on other sites
d0nnivain Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 I guess my question is, if they ask where all the money went and I say I have been living it up the last 6 months since the ex moved out will that be enough, or will I have to show evidence of spending it It doesn't matter. If it was $10,000 in cash earned during the marriage, absent other considerations, $5,000 of it belonged to her. So even if you spend it & don't have it any more, you still owe her $5,000. The court is going to get it out of you somehow. Even if when other assets are divided, you get $5,000 less because you misappropriated her cash. By trying to hide the $$$ you are going to drag this out longer. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
NopeNah Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Years ago during my third attempt at divorcing the same women. She kept getting full custody,spousal support and I was left with nothing! Once we moved to a different,more open minded state, I filed and she got NOTHING including custody. I had all my cars,boat and company in my mothers name. She has never paid me a cent in court ordered support($38,000 to date not including interest!). I was just happy to be rid of her. Link to post Share on other sites
d0nnivain Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 not pleading poverty just have cash piling up that they can't prove I have. They are sure I have it but can't prove anything right now As part of the divorce you were required to file certain financial disclosures under oath. If you failed to mention this pile of cash you lied under oath which is the CRIME of perjury. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
loveweary11 Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 If it was EARNED as cash and is 100% off the books...and you aren't buying stupid flashy things with it, it's invisible. - So long as you have a different income/expense transaction history that's plausible. Link to post Share on other sites
NopeNah Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 If it was EARNED as cash and is 100% off the books...and you aren't buying stupid flashy things with it, it's invisible. - So long as you have a different income/expense transaction history that's plausible. True...There can be NO paper trails attached to hidden money/assets,or you're boned! Link to post Share on other sites
carhill Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 OP, forgot to ask this question: When was the divorce filed? Link to post Share on other sites
PegNosePete Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 if they ask where all the money went and I say I have been living it up the last 6 months since the ex moved out will that be enough, or will I have to show evidence of spending it It very much depends on many factors. Where are you? Country/state? Was the money a marital asset (ie. a savings account you had before separation/divorce), was it yours from before the marriage, or was it earned after the separation/divorce? How much are we talking here? Other mitigating factors. For example if you're living on the poverty line looking after 3 kids then the court would not expect you to pay back $50,000. But if you're a high earner living alone in a penthouse suite while your wife is struggling to raise the kids then they will likely ask you to pay a lot, whether you can "prove" it or not. Link to post Share on other sites
Author whowants2no Posted March 19, 2015 Author Share Posted March 19, 2015 state of Iowa filed April 2014 75% was made on a second job after filing 20-25 thousand I live in the house with our 18 year old son I am the higher earner and pay all the bills Thanks again all....I think I know what is going to happen here but my lawyer wont answer any of this and just wanted to see what others think Link to post Share on other sites
carhill Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Money earned and assets acquired after the divorce is filed, and debts which are acquired, are generally not considered marital property. Since your child is an adult, in the eyes of CFS anyway, no formula for child support relevant to your income is imputed. There may be some retroactive support imputed, depending on motions and court rulings in the interim. The amount of money listed is essentially irrelevant. That's lawyer's fees. I wouldn't worry about it. Link to post Share on other sites
BlueIris Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Money earned and assets acquired after the divorce is filed, and debts which are acquired, are generally not considered marital property. But may be relevant to support calculations, allocation of debt, payment schedules, etc. For some reason this is an issue that has prompted OP to hide it (why bother if not relevant?) and that has his attorney's guard up. Since your child is an adult, in the eyes of CFS anyway, (Might not be if he still attends high school. Support and % of costs allocated might be at issue and if OP is claiming $20k income and hiding $20k income, support, cost allocations, etc may be at issue and his actual income might be the basis for calculation) no formula for child support relevant to your income is imputed. There may be some retroactive support imputed, depending on motions and court rulings in the interim. The amount of money listed is essentially irrelevant. That's lawyer's fees. I wouldn't worry about it. Notes within. OP, go with your attorney's advice. Link to post Share on other sites
carhill Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 The attorney is an officer of the court. Legal people always have their guard up since nearly everything humans do can be construed by an attorney to be illegal. That's how they make their living, interpreting the law. Note that I said 'interpreting', which is what it is, an interpretation. They argue their interpretation, adversaries argue theirs, legal fees pile up, a judge gives their interpretation and issues a ruling, that ruling is subject to interpretation by an appeals court, etc, etc. It's simply business. 25K cash earned after the divorce was filed, if he has it stashed, like my mom used to stash cash in canning jars and under the mattress, is a non-issue. While it might be interesting discussion to argue it, if it remains in cash form as a liquid asset, no one will ever know. The spouse could have the same stash and, newsflash, it's not uncommon. Women have done such things throughout time, especially back when they didn't work. It was security and a new start. All part of life. Is it right? Opinion varies. Lawyers will dispense legal advice, in my case at 350 per. People do what they do. Link to post Share on other sites
PegNosePete Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 The attorney told you not to talk to him about it, because he is an officer of the court. If he knew about it then he would have a responsibility to the court to reveal it, especially if questioned directly, but even if not asked directly he would still be obligated to disclose it. He could lose his job if he was caught lying (including lying by omission). So yeah, just say you spent it all on strippers and liqour. Nobody can disprove that. Although you might not want to mention strippers and liquor specifically if there's custody issues! Umm, high class dining. Link to post Share on other sites
Toodaloo Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Umm, high class dining. Is that what they call it these days???!!! Link to post Share on other sites
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