It never ends

[drifter777]

I have opted to not talk about my wife's cheating with her for a number of months now. We are raising our grandson and that generates a lot of drama and activity that we are not accustomed to anymore. She stays home so has most of work in getting him ready for school, getting him to/from school, meals, the wash .. all that stuff. I work a full day and I am just reluctant to get into anything because there is never a good time anymore.

 

Well, we had to go together on an errand in the car this morning and had an hour or so to talk. She was open to talking about it and I got in to many of the unanswered questions that still bother me. Some of them she says she has answered but they are contradictory to other answers and I want the straight out truth. We covered lot of ground to the point where I focused on her motivation for doing it. I told her that what she did was selfish, hurtful, and uncaring. I told her that she should have told me that she wanted to have sex with other guys so we could end the relationship before she actually did it. I told her that the way she broke it to me - like a bomb going off - was cruel and heartless. I told her that she was a selfish narcissistic person who felt entitled to do whatever she wanted to make her happy. The marriage didn't matter, I didn't matter, our family (son) didn't matter.

 

We've covered all of this ground many times before. She responds to some of it with agreement that she didn't care about my feelings on bit. She sticks to her motive of just wanting to have sex with other guys. I tell her how horribly selfish that "reason" actually is and that it demonstrates she is a narcissist. She agrees and tells me that now she realizes all of this and is sorry that she never thought of my feelings. When she says this I immediately start pressing her to tell me what she was thinking. That allowing one of her OM to drive back to our city and tell him he could stay with her goes way past curiosity of how good he was in bed. She begins to get amnesia at this time and I can't get a credible answer to any questions I have along this line. When I ask her why a few weeks later she begged me to come back and swore her love for me she always says that she realized she loved me and couldn't just let me go.

 

This is one of the few things she is consistent about, and I believe her because my 180 scared her straight. The 180 I did was my reaction to the fact that she cheated and was bringing an OM home. I hardened my heart - to protect myself - and didn't protest one bit. She was a dead whore to me and other than when I picked up my son I would never see or speak to her again. Scared her to the point that she kicked OM to the curb and begged me on her knees to come home. It wasn't a strategy to scare her or save our marriage and for that reason it was a 180 of iron. But I broke under all of the stress and confusion and pain and came back to start again when she begged. I can't go back and fix that mistake and I no longer hate myself for it. I was overwhelmed, saw a life-raft and climbed in. Understandable.

 

Back to today. As I continued to press her as to what her intentions were since, at that time, she killed our marriage and knew it even before she told me about her cheating. She knew that she could never keep it away from me - her brothers/sisters would bust her - and that my reaction would be pretty much what it was. She has trouble answering questions along this line and that really bothers me. These questions are about her motivation for cheating and whether finding out about sex with other men was worth tossing away our marriage. The only thing she ever says is that she didn't see it that way and that she didn't think of me or my feelings at all. I cannot accept this bullsh*t answer. I want her to tell me why she did it and all I get are superfluous answers that don't tell me anything. At this point she always gets flustered and falls back on the "I don't remember" thing. I stop talking - fuming - and she realizes that I'm not satisfied so she will start throwing out some excuses or rationalizations. Once she has to speak her mind - not answering my questions - interesting things occasionally pop out. Today's was that telling me so many facts & details right after she convinced me to come back was a horrible mistake that she wishes she could take back. That those facts have ruined much of our marriage. I immediately asked her "what ruined much of our marriage?" She replied "me telling you all those truths". Its very lucky we were pulling in to the parking lot to drop me off at my car because I don't know what I would have done if I was still driving on the highway. I parked, looked at her and said "so you screwing those guys didn't ruin our marriage - telling me the truthful details about it did". I called her a selfish, disgusting POS and slammed the door and walked in to my office. I was so angry I couldn't see straight. Now, 30 minutes later, I'm sick, disgusted, and sad. ZERO remorse. She tells me only what she thinks I want to hear and when she speaks from her heart she is not sorry for what she did. She is only sorry that I won't just get over it and leave the past in the past.

 

So I am as trapped as I feel. I cannot raise my grandson alone and, besides, she would probably win primary custody anyway. I don't trust her to raise him by herself. She just can't do it. No escape, no way for her to be remorseful for something she is happy she did, and suicide would just leave her raising him alone. More compartmentalization, more big bites of a sh*t sandwich, and more of me just trying to hold it all together for the boy.

[Auspecial]

Well, it sounds like you are doing your best, and succeeding in navigating a crappy situation.

[purplesorrow]

That is a grand sacrifice for your grandson. Your unhappiness speaks volumes on these forums, I can only guess it's much more so IRL. Are you really able to give him your best you living like this? Is there any way she will agree to shared custody?

[Rainbowlove]

I don't know how old your grandson is, but he sounds young.

 

That doesn't sound like a healthy environment for him to grow up in - two angry, unhappy adults.

 

She's busy getting him ready for school, lunch, wash etc. She's taking care of his daily needs for him.

 

Why do you say she can't raise him alone? Do you mean financially? Emotionally?

 

Are you truly trapped or trapping yourself?

[KingwoodMan]

You should be raising the grandson. Low quality human beings with no morals are really bad role models for children. She should stay away from him.

[BetrayedH]

I tend to think that she might be truthful when she says that she didn't think of you at the time. Compartmentalization is normal, no?

 

I get the impressin that you want her answers to make some sort of sense, that there was some logical thought process behind it all. My guess is that you've gotten to the hard core truth - that she did it because she wanted to do it (and probably didn't think she'd get caught).

 

Otherwise, I can do nothing but empathize with you, my friend. I'd have been just as pissed if my wife thought that her honesty was the problem after all these years.

[dichotomy]

Why, why, why...

 

Why do you think she did it drifter77?

 

Do you think she is a different person now then back then?

 

 

Character disturbance is a term used to describe someone who does not regret or feel sorry for what others suffer due to their actions - but only change or care when they got caught and suffer consequences themselves. Could she have this?

[I_Give_Up67]

I read your very first post and it was truly upsetting. It sounds like after all of these years that your biggest problem is that you do not believe that she has EVER regretted what she did. Seems to me you would have moved past the infidelity long ago had she ever truly expressed and shown you true remorse. Since she has not from what I've read, it would seem that she is being very truthful, brutally truthful with you in that she needed those experiences to learned you were the one. You all were so young at the point I can almost understand why she did things the way she did, but of course still does not excuse how she did it.

 

Although after 30 years you are obviously still hurting due to this, you can take some comfort that she has remained faithful to you and your family since. Though I am not defending her actions in those early years, but what could she say after all of these years to take away the hurt and pain that you still suffer? If she did tell you she was truly wrong at this point, would you believe her? Would that be enough to ease the pain you have felt all of these years? Judging from your older posts, if would appear that she settled into being a good wife and mother afterwards.

 

I hope you can pull through this and find the peace you so badly need right now. Hopefully with your family intact.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Drifter...Words cannot express how very sorry i am. We all want to know the "why" and no matter what...there is never an answer that makes any sense to such a senseless selfish act .

 

I wish she could show you the remorse you desire....the sorrow down to the core of her being for all the pain and suffering she has caused you. I wish she could ease your mind and give you peace.

 

Maybe in time....she will be able to help you...but for now...all i can say is i am genuinely sorry and my thoughts and prayers are with you as you try to heal from this horrible thing.

[Noirek]

I really have to wonder about your wife and you and why you stay in such a toxic enviroment. She must really love you. Or has some deep issues to take the name calling and non stop questioning year after years. Is it possible there are co-dependent issues in this marriage trapping you both?

Edited March 19, 2015 by Noirek

[Buckeye2]

That those facts have ruined much of our marriage. I immediately asked her "what ruined much of our marriage?" She replied "me telling you all those truths".

 

From your wife’s point of view this was the truth. Everything was great until you found out. She had OM for excitement and you for companionship and stability. The only time she showed remorse was when you threatened her security. Then she said whatever was needed to save herself.

 

Of course she wants it to all go away. Who wouldn’t in her position? It’s very unpleasant when you’re questioning her. All that giving you facts did was give you ammunition and make you more upset. Of course she regrets telling you.

 

 

[FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT][FONT=Calibri][sIZE=3]She just doesn’t get it so quit trying. You’re just torturing yourself. The analogy I use is someone from a culturethat eats pork converting to one that doesn’t. They promise not to eat pork ever again but in their heart they just don’tsee it as that bad and never will. When they do eat it the people around them ripthem a new one. They say how sorry theyare but they just don’t get it.[/sIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3]

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Edited March 19, 2015 by Buckeye2

[ch72]

Long time lurker but decided to register on post about this thread. Been on another site for a long time but lurking on this site only.

 

I'm a WS, I cheated on my fiance/wife over 18 years ago and she took me back.

 

There is nothing we can do that will ever make it up to the BS, NOTHING. We killed a part of our spouse/SO when we cheated and it never comes back.

 

All there is left is trying to rebuild but that is all up to the BS to make it happen. The WS can show all the remorse and love but in the end it's up to the BS to make it work with the rebuilding of the marriage/relationship.

 

If you can't rebuild, it's time to cut loose and let go IMO. No use staying together and let the resentment grow for years and years until you're so numb to the pain and hurt that nothing will ever matter anymore and you turn into a bitter person.

 

All these stories of those couples that make it, it's all because of the BS having a big heart and being able to forgive and move on. They never forget, but then can forgive. The WS is just lucky they got someone special. Too bad we WS don't realize that prior to cheating on them. Always, you're the love of my life and I don't want anyone but you after we've already cheated on them. I know, it's sickening and although I've forgiven myself, I never forget the pain it caused.

 

And truthfully, if I could go back in time, I would tell my wife to not take me back. I robbed her of 18 years of true happiness IMO. Overall, I won and she lost. I got the prize and she got caught holding a bag full of crap for a long time. But I've been trying to turn that bag of crap into a bag of gold, hopefully I get there one day.

[LifeWasted]

I don't know what to tell you friend. I divorced my worthless xww many years ago, but we did not have kids so it was easy. She exhibited the same lack of remorse and empathy yours does.

 

Look, you are not going to get any comfort from her. She seems incapable. Are you willing to live with her until your GS grows up and then split? Do you think you might be able to do that 180 thing without actually divorcing her?

 

All I am saying is, if you are staying solely because of the GS, then you are just going to have to bite the bullet and take the pain and push through it until the kid turns 18. Your WW doesn't love you, she just needs you. I feel so bad for you.

[bigman1]

I've followed you a bit,I say this gently, but I mean it. Stop. Stop deceiving yourself and everyone. Get help. You actually posited suicide as an option.

Do not go a day more without counseling.

 

Your wife's truth is that she was sexually curious. End of story. There is no answer to satisfy your questions because her reason was stupid and selfish. Its also true. That's all. Selfish self centered people do that.

 

I have more but this tablet is crap.

[Darren Steez]

No real point in asking why, because with so many OM, the standard I don't know doesn't cut it. Because if she really said I did it because I wanted to and I was having fun, the thrill of sneaking around, doing all that stuff and coming home with a secret only she knew.. you and many other BS would divorce their WS faster than a speeding bullet.

 

Right now she can't tell you what you want to hear. I think even her version of the truth, although according to her coming from an honest place is still sanitized with big bits omitted.

 

How does this resolve itself when most of your time is spent working, looking after your grandson and the only free time you two have is for talking and questioning and not getting the answers you need which leads to anger.

 

Sounds like the relationship is broken, while there still might be love, it's at a point of no return. That can't be good for the boy.

[No Limit]

Where is your grandson's mother or father?

[81West]

I'm so sorry you've been in such turmoil on and off for such a very long time. It's been a shadow over your entire adult life really, and that is a very hard thing to think of somebody else enduring. You have all my empathy.

 

Now you're going to get all my Spock like logic. Her answers will never be any more satisfying to you, and that makes perfect sense to me. She was a very young woman and mother who had been a married since she was 17 who justified trying out other men during your one and only separation, six years in to what must be close to a 40 year marriage now. What else can her answers be but vague and selfish and immature - that's exactly where she was at at 22 or 23! She can't give you deep and reflective answers from this stage of life because it's all so terribly remote for her and none of it lives in the framework of her present or that of any of the past 30+ years. "I don't know" and "I wanted to sleep with other guys" is probably pretty damn accurate.

 

I think you need to find a new way to relate to all the things you feel about those events. Identify your specific feelings and really give them a strong cognitive challenge with those of us who might want to work that with you here on the board. She is incapable of giving you the peace with the past you deserve, so you have to figure out a way to find it yourself. You more than deserve it.

 

What are the strongest feelings that arise when you think of her cheating? Shame maybe? Powerlessness? Fear? I'm guessing here, but if you'd like, identify one or two. And then try to identify the automatic thoughts that underlie the emotion. Like for example shame might contain the thought "I'm not good enough" or "I caused this somehow" etc. And then challenge those thoughts with the real evidence of that time and the last decades and see if they hold up. I bet they won't, not hardly at all.

[Hope Shimmers]

drifter, your unhappiness just oozes from every word in your posts on LS. It makes me so sad for you.

 

You only have one life. It is admirable that you are staying together for your grandson, but he will still have both of you if you aren't married. I don't understand why she would automatically get custody. I would at least see an attorney and get more information on that.

 

You have been unhappy for all these years. You have plenty of years left - do you really want to spend every day of them like this?

[81West]

And truthfully, if I could go back in time, I would tell my wife to not take me back. I robbed her of 18 years of true happiness IMO. Overall, I won and she lost. I got the prize and she got caught holding a bag full of crap for a long time. But I've been trying to turn that bag of crap into a bag of gold, hopefully I get there one day.

 

That's a really honest, thought provoking and moving perspective. Thanks for your words.

[ladydesigner]

I really have to wonder about your wife and you and why you stay in such a toxic enviroment. She must really love you. Or has some deep issues to take the name calling and non stop questioning year after years. Is it possible there are co-dependent issues in this marriage trapping you both?

 

Well I am not sure if the questioning ever does end. So far I'm going on 3 years past D-day and I still question my WH. If I have a question I'm going to ask it. WH shouldn't have cheated, then there wouldn't be any questions or name calling for that matter, and I've done that too. I am no longer concerned as to how this affects my WH.

[ladydesigner]

Drifter I understand where you are at. It's hard staying with an unremorseful WS. I am currently there too, although my WH is either faking the remorse right now or he really means it (since False R).

 

I keep wondering to myself why the questions even matter to me anymore, my WH wasn't thinking of me the first time and certainly wasn't thinking of me when he continued the A. He only was thinking of himself as your wife was.

[Noirek]

Well I am not sure if the questioning ever does end. So far I'm going on 3 years past D-day and I still question my WH. If I have a question I'm going to ask it. WH shouldn't have cheated, then there wouldn't be any questions or name calling for that matter, and I've done that too. I am no longer concerned as to how this affects my WH.

 

3 years is very fresh still. Over ten something has to change. At least most people would want it to. Would you want to be still asking the same questions and calling your husband names over seven years from now? Would you want to be married to someone you still felt like you had to do this to? Would you want to still not care about his feelings over seven years from now? It is having the same arguement over and over again with no progress for more than a decade. You may have 0 empathy for a wayward in this situation but I have to wonder about both of their reasons for staying on this ride for so very long. Not just the OP but also his wife.

[ladydesigner]

3 years is very fresh still. Over ten something has to change. At least most people would want it to. Would you want to be still asking the same questions and calling your husband names over seven years from now? Would you want to be married to someone you still felt like you had to do this to? Would you want to still not care about his feelings over seven years from now? It is having the same arguement over and over again with no progress for more than a decade. You may have 0 empathy for a wayward in this situation but I have to wonder about both of their reasons for staying on this ride for so very long. Not just the OP but also his wife.

 

Right I see what you are saying. No I could not live like this forever I can barely tolerate it now.

[bigman1]

Drifter, you are doing the proverbial Roman justice on your wife. It was said that in ancient Rome when one was convicted of murder, one had to carry the corpse around until it decayed and you died due to carrying it.

 

You are content to haunt your wife and let her deal with your deterioration. It appears to me that you think that as long as she can be around your suffering then you are somehow punishing her for what she did to you. If that is the case, you should stop.

 

You say that you have forgiven yourself for taking her back. But that is only partially true. You don't forgive yourself for continuing to stay. First, you did it because she begged, as if her wants mattered at that point. Then you did it for kids. Now you do it for the grandson. In fact, he's the only reason that you have not chosen suicide. Please, Please Please sir, stop deflecting.

 

Your issue is that you soul is crying out for you to do what it needs to be done. That is to leave. Divorce, Separate, whatever. You will not win any medals for what you are doing.

 

I hope it does not sound harsh, but I've never seen someone so content in their discontentment. Your suffering is in vain. She will never answer your questions to your satisfaction, but then again, you know that. That is why you ask and argue. It is you decaying while she carries you around. It is not healthy for you, her, or you grandson.

 

Just change things. Do something different. It really cannot get worse than it already is.

[xxoo]

I tell her how horribly selfish that "reason" actually is and that it demonstrates she is a narcissist. She agrees and tells me that now she realizes all of this and is sorry that she never thought of my feelings.

 

You are using the present tense (she is a narcissist). She agrees that the act was narcissistic and is sorry for acting that way.

 

Has she continued to be narcissistic during the decades to follow? Or did she grow and learn, as we all must from mistakes made at young ages?

 

What kind of spouse has she been to you in the recent decades? Has she been loving, supportive, and faithful?