Is porn cheating??? The true realization. Just Keep Breathing.....

[WithOrWithoutYou]

This is a difficult problem. There are two possibilities from what you have told me. Either 1), your husband watches the porn as a way to level you, make you feel less of a woman, and belittle your sexuality, OR 2) your husband is a nice guy, who just doesn't view his watching porn the same way that you view it (as tantamount to an affair). I honestly do not know which is the case.

 

Perhaps you can help by answering some follow-up questions. Google "emotional abuse" and look at a couple of the first search returns. Are those things that your husband ever does, besides the porn?

 

If not, it may simply be that he views porn completely differently than you do. He may just see it as an outlet, or a release for him. If the first possiblity I mentioned is NOT happeneing (you should be able to make that determination by reading that material), and he is not doing this for the purpose of hurting you, then perhaps you can work through this issue with him.

 

There are several options. It sounds like your husband may be a very sexual person, and perhaps you could try asking him what sort of things he likes (perhaps the things he has viewed on the porn), and DO those things with him. Many men find it a great act of love when a woman they love wants to please them, and will do things with them that they are interested in. You might also think about asking to watch the porn with him, female, as well as male porn, and see if you enjoy it. Share it with him. As long as there is NO interactivity between him and some other woman, anyone watching porn (him, or him and you) does NOT make you the "other woman", and in the view of most people, it is not "an affair", and would not be considered "swinging", just to watch porn with your husband.

 

You are correct that suicide is not the answer, for all of the reasons you have described. Just keep a good thought, and we'll help you to work this out any way we can.

 

Let me know what you think of these suggestions, and what your conclusions are about the above, and I'll try to post back later.

[Tamed Wildflower]

Alright, I don't mean to hijack this thread, and I hope that by replying several times in a row I am not hijacking it (let me know if I am; I don't mean to go against forum etiquette), but I thought of another question.

 

Is your hubby entirely aware of how his porn viewing makes you feel? When you discuss it together, what is the tone of the conversation? Is your husband sensitive to your feelings about it, or dismissive? (or maybe sometimes one and sometimes the other?) When you tell him how it makes you feel, what does he say?

[Tamed Wildflower]

Originally posted by PinkPixie

Finding out ellicits the same type of feelings as if hubby had participated in a physical affair with a real person. Then wife mourns. She questions her ability to "measure up", wife mentally compares her body and performance to that which is veiwed and suffers loss of self esteem. Then over time, lie after lie, feelings of being sexually inadequate and unattractive, severe depression and possibly thoughts of or attempted suicide.

 

Do you struggle with feelings of being sexually inadequate regardless of hubby's porn habit? Did you have these feelings before he began the porn habit? In your sexual relationship with your husband, does he make you feel like your body and performance are not good enough? How do you feel about having sex with him?

 

I'm sorry if I am probing too much!! (Let me know if I am!)

 

And please let me know if anyone feels like I am dominating this woman's thread!!

[WithOrWithoutYou]

Pinkpixie,

 

As someone wisely pointed out to me, there obviously could be other issues that may be contributing to the problem you are having other than the two possibilities I pointed out. I was in a hurry, and off the top of my head, those are the two that came to mind. I still think both are strong possibilities, perhaps combined with some other things.

 

Please post back and let us know the answers to some of our questions and provide a little more info, and we can try to help you further. If you are not comfortable posting very private things publicly (keep in mind nobody here knows your name anyway), feel free to use the Private Message system (but you would be able to get more input from others if you just posted it here).

 

TW,

 

I don't think you are dominating the thread at all. You are genuinely trying to help and offering some very good thoughts, and that is always a good thing, whether you do it with 1 post or 100. I think many of your questions for pinkpixie are very good ones, and may help to shed more light on the situation, so that a solution can be found.

[Mz. Pixie]

There's an identical thread to this one posted on the forum as well by Dixiepix.

Same issue. There are responses there as well but she wanted to end the topic.

[dixiepix]

Originally posted by Guest

Do you ever turn him down or have you in the past and do you think if so perhaps he got tired of trying? Do you think he has some "Centerfold Syndrome" going on where the real-life sex can't match the polished and plasticized stars he sees in his downloads?

 

I previously stated that I have never withheld sex; In fact, my advances are 90 % of the time rejected...it starts to get to you. As far as when we do have sex, half the time, it occurs after an arguement re: porn...make-up session? or out of feeling guilty when I bring up the fact its been a few weeks. The last time the issue arose about 6-8 weeks ago, we decided to set a day of the week aside for intimacy, not just about sex, about back rubs, holding each other, talking...just quite time for the 2 of us away from the kids. Well, it worked for the first week or 2. Then it was set aside. He says his fascination with porm centers around different or crazy things that people do. I strongly believe it desensitizes one to the normal pleasures of sharing and exploring sensual mutual sex.

 

Well, since you've got me started again, I want to make one more point. My husband believes that marriage is not about sex, sex is just and extra, that marriage is about finding someone you want to share the rest of your life with, be best friends with. Mostly true, however, sex is not an extra if it's not happening. Secondly, I have friends that I don't want to live with, marry or have sex with. And if intimacy and sex weren't a very real integrel part of the marriage concept, then there would be little contraversy re: same sex marriages.

 

I am probably looking at this all wrong and need to quit trying to analyze it, point is, I am not competing with these women or the act itself....maybe it's the adreneline rush he gets when he sees it; I guess, heck I really don't know. There is no way, I could create the same excitement every time. I truly have no idea what the deal is. Doubt I'll get it figured out.

 

During college, I worked as a bartender. I made many friends, made plenty of money and ....was introduced to "coke". I worked in the evenings 3 or 4 nights a week, normally getting home about 11 or 11:30. Every couple of weeks, these "friends" would pay me $100 to stay open a couple of extra hours, while they gambled. Somewhere in the midst of one such evening, I was convinced to try "coke". It was used only recreationally for 6 mo. or so only while hangin with these people...and it was free. It kept me out really late sometimes, but to me, I wasn't hurting anyone, my husband, was b/f then, should have been asleep. I wasn't doing anything wrong, I wasn't cheating. Maybe it was stress relief. Eventually, those late nights became once or twice a week. Still I wasn't hurting anyone, it had nothing to do with anyone except me. I enjoyed it and it didn't interfere with getting up early or normal daily activities...ya ya ya you get the pic. Well b/f knew something was going on but not what. He knew our relationship had changed but not why. He questioned me about cheating and drugs. I denied both..it's just work, gotta make a living. Finally he threatened to leave me if I did not correct this behavior. We agreed that from that point forward, I would work nights that were convenient for him to be there with me...and that is exactly what we did. I didn't stay late or drugs again. I loved him and did not want to lose him. After all, he was one of the best things that ever happened to me. I remember shortly after we met, I told him...you make me so happy! He was taken aback because no one had ever told him that before. The b/f, I married 6 yrs ago. I finally told him the real reason for the late nights. For me, yes the effect of coke was pleasurable. But it was hurting someone I loved very much and worth much more than a high.

 

This last point is too my husband: you come here to read my posts and see who is on your side or my side. It really isn't about who's side someone is on. It is about us. So, you needn't mention who' side who was on, I already know; and people here are only trying to give advice based on experience and beliefs. In fact, little need be said other than I read your post today. I am open to discussing anything I posted. But once it has been discussed, there is little need to continually bring it up as that only continues to throw the porn thing back in my face, that's why I found Loveshack to begin with. And if under the search engine you would type in porn, you will find that I am not the only person who has issues with it. Like Monday, that is one thing I'd just soon forget about, as it is still painful when reminded as I'm sure the above story is. I love you.

[Craig]

I'm no expert but perhaps the porn issue isn't the issue at all. Maybe it's a scapegoat for other underlying problems in the relationship.

[Ladyjane14]

I don't think Hubby is getting your message, Dixie.

 

That's unfortunate, because it's really 'salting the wound', when you're already upset about something...and then you're more or less told that your problem is silly.

 

If it's important to you....then it's IMPORTANT. Period. Perception becomes the truth in that it must be dealt with. A problem for you is a problem for you both. And you should BOTH be addressing each others needs as if they were your own.

 

Your husband needs to step up to the plate, and get into an agreement with you that you BOTH can live with. And for your part, you'll have to be truthful and honest about what that really is.

 

What can you live with? ...and still be adding to and not subtracting from his life? What can he do that is likewise enhancing, rather than controlling?

 

Otherwise....there's no resolution in sight. Nothing but resentment and anger is ahead of you on your present course.

[FolderWife]

Well... minus the kids, I could've written this. I've thought about suicide myself. Then realized that I'd do better to leave him and go to college and move to Florida than I would to burn in hell for eternity, because he couldn't give up something that crushed my heart.

 

So, I decided, after two years of the cycle (it was a three month cycle, that has worked it's way up to two) that I couldn't fight any more.

 

We got rid of the computer a year ago, but that didn't help anything...he still found pay per view, and went as far as opening another po box to get $60 worth of pornos mailed to...which I found before he got to watch them *hee hee*

 

I finally semi-gave up. I let him have his videos and dvds (11 in all I think) but that is all. I don't want any more internet, and I don't want any dirty magazines. The pornos on dvd are all I can stomache. I won't watch his videos, because I don't want to know what he's looking at.

 

With the internet, you end up finding one or two things to enjoy. I enjoy loveshack and ebay, and a couple of other forums.

 

Men, apparently, are drawn to the porn...since it's in your face no matter WHAT you search for. I even get sucked into looking at a dirty picture once in a while..I can't help it. It's like looking at a train wreck. You know it isn't pretty, but you can't help but look.

 

The men, apparently, get hooked on looking at the nudi stuff and will look at it occasionally to very often. Then us wives stumble across it and feel devistated.

 

So understanding that I will find it, and that hubby will look at it, whether it's his intention or not when he logs on, I decided that I can't live with the internet in our home. If he has DVDs, then he has to make a concious effort to put the DVD in, and watch it. On the internet, he can just look at porn because he was online, and got bored because no one emailed him.

 

So in conclusion, see if your husband can live without the internet and pay per view. Then give him some porno movies.

 

That way, he'll have to make a concious effort to watch it. Also, you won't be stumbling upon it. Also, he won't be looking at sex toys...unless they are in his porn.

 

So far, this has worked for me. I know he has the movies, but I don't know when he watches. So I can live with it...as long as I don't think about it, and as long as I don't think about all the times he lied to get porn...

 

great, now I thought about it.

[dixiepix]

Originally posted by Tamed Wildflower

Is your hubby entirely aware of how his porn viewing makes you feel? When you discuss it together, what is the tone of the conversation? Is your husband sensitive to your feelings about it, or dismissive? (or maybe sometimes one and sometimes the other?) When you tell him how it makes you feel, what does he say?

 

Yes, we do discuss it as adults, for the most part rationally, except for my crying, there is no screaming or raising cane or anything, well except the first or second time, and he was the one who yanked the mouse and keyboard out of the computer and threw them about the room; threatening to throw the computer out the door...should've let him get rid of it then...joking, he has to have a computer connected to net for work. So the first two times he was found out, he was not sensitive at all, I was over-reacting...huge fights. Now, he is sensitive to the fact that I'm upset and hurt which is why he agrees for us to view it together. But then, he never shares. Out of sight out of mind type thing. Which for the most part has worked. He tells me it has nothing to do with me.

[dixiepix]

Originally posted by Ladyjane14

I don't think Hubby is getting your message, Dixie.

 

What can you live with? ...and still be adding to and not subtracting from his life? What can he do that is likewise enhancing, rather than controlling?

 

Otherwise....there's no resolution in sight. Nothing but resentment and anger is ahead of you on your present course.

 

That's a tough question. As he and I already discussed the viewing together thing. He never let me know when he was doing it, so apparently, in his opinion wasn't going to "add" anything to his life. Probably the only thing I could do to "add" something to his life is hide my feelings, harden my heart, live with it and shut up about it. Literally we have discussed all options. Only thing that changed this time is that it's going to happen again, I don't know when, but I can't tell you it won't, we both know thats a lie. Those are the cold hard facts.

 

We are best friends but intimacy is severely lacking. No real kissing outside the sack....which is about once a month. I do get a peck on the lips several times a day. We rarely snuggle up on the couch and watch tv. We do lots of things together like cooking, yardwork, playing with kids, playing with garden, but when it come to touchy, feely, playful "fun stuff" it just doesn't happen that often. If you don't have those things, it's difficult for the fun stuff to overflow into the bedroom.

[WithOrWithoutYou]

dixiepix,

 

I really do not believe that this is your problem, or anything really wrong with you, at least not for the most part. I think there may be much larger issues here, but that doesn't necessarily mean they cannot be worked through if he is willing. If you are best friends, as you say, maybe he will work on it. That said, I'm sure there are other things about your marriage you can both work on to make it better when and if you can get through those other issues. I PMed you a link I think may be helpful. Keep reading hon.

[Ladyjane14]

Originally posted by dixiepix

Probably the only thing I could do to "add" something to his life is hide my feelings, harden my heart, live with it and shut up about it. Literally we have discussed all options. Only thing that changed this time is that it's going to happen again, I don't know when, but I can't tell you it won't, we both know thats a lie. Those are the cold hard facts.

 

It's hard to feel optimistic when you're down....but there IS a solution. You just have to BOTH stay on it, communicating honestly, until you find it.

 

Try giving the proper names to your emotions when you're communicating. i.e. "I feel really frustrated that we're having a problem finding a solution." Once you've named the emotion, you'll begin to see the temporary nature of each one. A feeling of frustration will pass in time, and when it does....it's time to get back to the drawing board.

 

Take a break for a day or two when you need to, but remember....if you give in to despair, then all you can expect to have is despair.

 

The answer is there somewhere. Have some confidence that between the two of you, it will be found. Where there is will, there is hope.

[Tamed Wildflower]

Do you and your husband look for totally different things in sex?

 

You keep talking about your hubby's adrenaline rushes, and your need for intimacy. Does your hubby enjoy sex for the emotional intimacy? And do you ever find it exciting the same way he does?

[dixiepix]

Okay, for everyone who is following this post, yesterday, my hubby was supposed to go on an "outing" at work. They have these from time to time to promote being a team player. Well, he made face there and told his coworkers that he thought he would just rather going home and play with his boys and be with his wife. He skipped out on free beer and golf to come home and be with us. After he got his nap, he went outside to play with our 3 yr old. I couldn't cut loose to play just yet. When he came back in to get me, he gave me a big sincere hug, and with his arm around me, we walked through the house all snuggled up. Our daughter looked up from her homework and said "get a room", we walked thru the yard holding hands and discussing our fruit trees. Everyone was so content...especially me. I know I was glowing. After that my husband spent 4 hours helping our 13 y/o with her homework. I don't know the reason for all the attention, but I am thankful. It was nice for our children to see the love shared between us. I believe showing love toward one another in front of your children give them stability and a comfort that NO matter what, everything will be okay, because mommy and daddy truly love each other. I know our daughter was very happy in the statement she got to make. She saw that on a FULL HOUSE episode one time and asked me why me and dad don't act more like those people. I did not have and answer. But even children sense underlying issues.

 

I sincerely love my husband and my family. If everyday could be like yesterday.......well you get the picture. Material things mean little to me. I do not base my love for my husband on his ability to provide for us, if I told him once, I've told him 20 times....if we lost everything tomorrow, we could just pop the tent, long as it keep the rain out and we can eat, I'll be happy. Yesterday, he was his old self, the one I met in college, not the clone the "company" made. I know the sensitive, easy-going happy person I met and fell in love with is still in there. Boy was it nice. Today, I am the picture of a dog rolling in cow-pie......pure bliss. To My Husband and best friend, I Love You!!! And THANK YOU FOR ALL THAT YOU ARE!

[Moose]

[Tamed Wildflower]

Originally posted by Moose

 

Echoing Moose's sentiment:

[Ladyjane14]

Well, this is good news. Congrats!

 

You know, when my husband and I had our "breakthrough", we reinforced it by doing something sweet and unexpected for each other every day.

Worked miracles!

[Guest]

You know, I've read the entire thread. Dixie, I feel for you. I'm sorry you are hurting. I hope the path to healing comes quickly.

 

What people fail to realize there is insurmountable reasons why men turn to porn. I think what is worse is when the other finds out without knowing its there.

 

Like me, I go away every other weekend to visit my mom. Sometimes when I get home on Sunday, I ask my boyfriend of 10 years if he's masturbated this weekend. We used to freely discuss any of our sexual needs, outlets, etc. He would say no. (knowing we ourselves have not had sex in a month, two months and I think all record time was 3 months).

 

I found out last night after previewing our cable bill and calling our cable company, that he has indeed been viewing porn movies. Two minimum in one night. So there goes the "no I didnt masturbate while you were away" answer.

 

In addition to this, lately I've been finding his underwear stained with ejaculatory residue -- 1. We were not together that night 2. He was out for band practice till 12 midnight. Now we all know men at 44 yo do not have nocturnal emissions during band practices now dont we?

 

This was a real blow to me. Im sitting here wondering what I should do.

 

I feel lied to and cheated on.

[OneFaith]

You know, I've read the entire thread. Dixie, I feel for you. I'm sorry you are hurting. I hope the path to healing comes quickly.

 

What people fail to realize there is insurmountable reasons why men turn to porn. I think what is worse is when the other finds out without knowing its there.

 

Like me, I go away every other weekend to visit my mom. Sometimes when I get home on Sunday, I ask my boyfriend of 10 years if he's masturbated this weekend. We used to freely discuss any of our sexual needs, outlets, etc. He would say no. (knowing we ourselves have not had sex in a month, two months and I think all record time was 3 months).

 

I found out last night after previewing our cable bill and calling our cable company, that he has indeed been viewing porn movies. Two minimum in one night. So there goes the "no I didnt masturbate while you were away" answer.

 

In addition to this, lately I've been finding his underwear stained with ejaculatory residue -- 1. We were not together that night 2. He was out for band practice till 12 midnight. Now we all know men at 44 yo do not have nocturnal emissions during band practices now dont we?

 

This was a real blow to me. Im sitting here wondering what I should do.

 

I feel lied to and cheated on.

[moimeme]

This is incredible. How many men and women have posted on these threads to say that masturbation isn't about you and still there are these posts. OneFaith, leave him alone. It is illogical to think that masturbation is cheating. But your nagging and freaking out about him masturbating makes him feel bad and unaccepted and breaks your emotional bond, which then turns him off of you, which makes him do it more. If you would only shut up about it and leave him alone and accept him, he would then turn back on to you and do it less.

 

However, as long as you women act this ridiculously about the men masturbating, you will continue to drive them away, turn them off, and cause the very breakdown in your bond that will make them prefer their own hands to you. So wise up.

[OneFaith]

mio,

 

I think you're missing the point. Of course masturbation between men and women are normal. What I find disturbing is that we used to freely discuss our sexual pleasures, needs and the want.

 

Now since we've been lacking in our relationship, I have done slight investigation. Any person who feels neglected would do so. I found out why.

 

It hurts. Im not saying masturbation is cheating, Im saying that he lied, secretly watched porn movies while I was away and denied he has any sexual needs, especially when it is regarding him and I. If hes masturbating more than he touches me, viewing porno rather than initiating sex with me, then there's something wrong here.

[moimeme]

Yes, and the something wrong has to do with your relationship as a whole. So don't approach it from the 'you lied about masturbating' angle or it'll get you nowhere. Have a talk about the entire relationship and find out what's going on that's come between you. The solo gratification is a symptom; it's not the problem. You expressed this as his 'cheating and lying'. It's not. It's what he did BECAUSE something is wrong between you and that's what you need to find out.

[OneFaith]

Oh you're not telling me something I already dont know Mio. I've been attempting to communicate this to him for awhile now. Not only we are emotionally distant we are physically as well. And when you find out that he is outletting with porn, well, that doesnt make you feel good.

 

I've been living with him for 4 years, together for 10 going on 11. I never get "I love you's" unless I say it first and in 4 years, I can count on one hand. Cards for special occassions (bdays or valentines) have deceased or nonexistant.

 

He is acting as if Im not even here.

[moimeme]

Have you tried to suggest counselling?