Tired of bread crumbs [updated]

[MissBee]

Your right. I only have myself to blame for the choices I have made and continue to make. You ask why I don't end it...I know it sounds like a cop out but I truly don't know. I have initiated NC several times and every time I allowed myself to be pulled back in to the same vicious circle.

 

I'm so close to snapping on him and when I do, there will be absolutely no going back. I can feel anger and rage growing inside me day after day. I'm mostly mad at myself but I would be lying if I denied feeling anger toward him too. Your analysis of him is spot on. If things aren't his way, he acts like a child and throws tantrums. He is selfish and manipulative in every way. I wonder if he is just that way with me....jerk.

 

Why do you keep making it about you?

 

First you're asking what kind of woman you are that could bring it out in him and now you're wondering if he's just this way with you. It's not about you.

 

But I'll tell you what though, we pick people that are a match for our issues. And I think this dynamic is this way because part of it is that when he behaves this way, even though you know he is selfish and manipulative, your own insecurities still tell you that maybe it's you, maybe you make him act this way, maybe he only treats you this way and make it all about some defect in you...and that's why it works...because when he acts like that some part of you believes it's your fault and that if you do things differently he will be different instead of 100% seeing it's him. He's a match for those insecurities you have in yourself that lead you to ask those kinds of questions about essentially "what's wrong with me why he treats me poorly...it must be me and not just him".

I think when you get to the point of truly realizing it's him it will be easier to walk away, whereas I think now you are still with him because part of it is you're accepting his behavior as a reflection of you. I've BTDT and it's still something I work on where I realize a man is not treating me well but on some level old insecurities make you believe that it's about you and if you just do this or that better they will treat you better and you seek validation in them treating you well, i.e. he's treating me badly because something is wrong with me, so if he treats me well, that means he's validating I'm a good woman who deserves being treated well and I want to be treated well and be validated so I'll stick around and hope he starts treating me well...but these guys never do, or not for long and it erodes your self worth even more until you stop making their behavior (good or bad) about you.

Edited July 24, 2015 by MissBee

[MissBee]

No offense taken. It's true. But there is a difference. I will walk. And when he starts coming at me like that, I put him right back in HIS place.

 

That's what started all this. I told him some FACTS and TRUTHS he didn't wanna hear and he got mad. He broke me down but I'm fighting my way back.

 

As each day passes, he makes it easier and easier to walk away. The time is coming.

 

It doesn't matter what you tell him. Believe me, you're just a different version of his wife, as painful as it may be to hear and as alarming as it may sound.

 

I've learned this. You should check out an article on the site called "Baggage Reclaim" about women who talk and think too much...i.e. women whoa re with assclowns and think they are putting them in their place, telling them "facts and truths", constantly explaining this guy's poor behavior to him, chastising etc...yet...there they are...still with the guy and all the talking is for naught. They think they are "putting their foot down" and have boundaries because they talk but the proof is in the pudding...they keep having to talk and they are clearly unhappy with how they are treated...yet they have not dumped the guy and are still open to more talks and discussions. That's not any different than the wife who is still with him. Talking and staying is no different than not talking and staying...as the staying is what matters and staying when for all intents and purposes you agree he is a jerk and hasn't changed and where you say the relationship will kill you...how is it any less codependent? It's just as bad....even worse because you're not even married to him so leaving him should be ostensibly easier than his wife who will have to disrupt everything.

 

You "will" walk, but have not walked. Neither has his wife right? Will is something in the future...it hasn't happened...so no one can bet on it. Likewise, you can't guarantee his wife will never walk, she just hasn't yet and neither have you.

 

If he is such a jerk and selfish and manipulative...what does it matter what facts and truths you tell him? Most jerks know they're jerks...they don't care. They just want to find someone who will allow them to be jerky...which you allow. Just because you tell him facts and truths means nothing in the larger picture, as most guys like this will pretend to listen but won't change and the fact that you keep threatening to leave but are still around validates for them that you just like to talk a bunch but they can't be so bad if you haven't as yet dumped them.

 

An excerpt, but you should check out the whole thing because it's so appropriate.

 

There are many situations and topics in life that you can have discussions about, but when it comes to the recognition of shady behaviour and what in fact might be repeat shadiness, it’s time to stop discussing, get to flushing. Your boundaries are yours to uphold and if someone would go to the trouble of busting them, you having a chat about it is only going to give the impression that you’re not really that serious and are open to having them crossed again.

 

Your job in life isn’t to raise adults from the ground up. If you don’t think that a person knows the fundamental difference between right and wrong and you feel that they lack an affinity with basic respect, it’s time to step.

 

There is no conversation to be had about why they’re doing you over, again.

 

There’s no debating the legitimacy and validity of your boundaries and you sure as hell shouldn’t be giving them the green light to duck responsibility in their attempts to put their shady behaviour on you.

 

Don’t ‘negotiate’ with people who don’t even have the basic courtesy and personal value to respect you due to not valuing their own integrity. The more you discuss is the more it looks like you’re convincing you that their behaviour is about you, or that you’re trying to sell you back in to an already unworkable ‘deal’. Stop discussing, get to flushing.

Edited July 24, 2015 by MissBee

[Poppy47]

MM started to whine about what a drain it was on him.... he had to make up excuses to see me.

 

If there was an upset, he would say how difficult it was for him at home. When he was upset, he couldn't show it or tell anybody. It stressed him......Poor sooky woosy.

 

How ironic !!!!.

 

For OW I think it is like living in a war zone 24/7. It's a shattering experience and that's why many of us come out of us with post traumatic stress.

[gettingstronger]

I think it just sounds to me like you both are just alike: unwilling to budge. So you both tell the other "if you don't like my terms, then end it". Sometimes you just don't agree and you have to accept that and end it.

 

 

 

You know, sometimes it really is just that simple.

[LivingWaterPlease]

I'm so close to snapping on him and when I do, there will be absolutely no going back. I can feel anger and rage growing inside me day after day. I'm mostly mad at myself but I would be lying if I denied feeling anger toward him too. Your analysis of him is spot on. If things aren't his way, he acts like a child and throws tantrums. He is selfish and manipulative in every way. I wonder if he is just that way with me....jerk.

 

Ifalltopieces, think about this: Why not end with him calmly before you snap? That way you'll walk away with dignity intact.

 

I know that we're all different. But, for me in your place if I snapped then I would feel I lost something in the break up. I would feel better about myself being logical and rational in explaining to him I need more than he can give and end on the best terms possible. I would also think he would respect you more for doing it that way. If you snap, he can tell himself that he dodged a bullet and that you would be hard to live with, or whatever (even though, obviously, he has tried your patience beyond the pale).

 

One more thing, if I lost it and snapped in your place I would be wishing I could go back and do it over calmly. I'd want to finish without an emotional display and then walk away with head held high.

 

However, if snapping is the only way you feel you can make the break then by all means, :mad:!!!!SNAP!!!!:mad:

[HappyAgain2014]

No offense taken. It's true. But there is a difference. I will walk. And when he starts coming at me like that, I put him right back in HIS place.

 

That's what started all this. I told him some FACTS and TRUTHS he didn't wanna hear and he got mad. He broke me down but I'm fighting my way back.

 

As each day passes, he makes it easier and easier to walk away. The time is coming.

 

So far, there is no difference. Saying you'll walk and doing it are polar opposite behaviors. You're in this and recognizing it's dysfunctional. That, by definition, is codependency.

 

Here's a question..... Considering all he's already done, what DOES he have to do to make you walk? Right now you're playing chicken with him and he knows it. He's winning. Regardless of truths you may tell him, you're still with him. That's all he needs to know.

 

He's not going to change. No matter what he tells you about laying blame at your feet, he is responsible for himself. You are responsible for yourself. So, are you worth more than this? You could find a single man to act like this all day long. Why endure a married one?

[Ms. Faust]

MM says if I don't trust him I should just tell him to get lost. He also says I have no reason not to trust him and he doesn't feel "wanted" anymore. He says he feels like an inconvienence. HA!!!!!!

 

Translation: "I can guilt you, manipulate you, and make you feel worthless and confused, and yet I know you won't leave me. I'm the shizz. So can we have sex now?"

 

Seriously, think about what he is saying. This is something you would hear from a child/ teenager.

 

Have you considered that maybe he *is* an inconvenience in your life?

[sandylee1]

Your SO right!!!! All he cares about is himself and what HE wants.

 

As for his wife, she lets him do whatever he wants. She doesn't rock his boat. She is neat and tidy in her place and she stays put. His wife will never leave him. she is very co dependent and in a sick way they are very good for each other.

 

Have you met his wife?

Do you know her well? Or is this based on what he tells you?

If she'd stay put why doesn't he tell her about you?

 

When you say she let's him do whatever he wants, what exactly do you mean?

 

Because I do what I want and I let my husband do what he wants, we don't need permission from each other, but that doesn't include having an affair on either side.

[Lois_Griffin]

MM says if I don't trust him I should just tell him to get lost. He also says I have no reason not to trust him and he doesn't feel "wanted" anymore. He says he feels like an inconvienence. HA!!!!!!

 

I'm sorry but if I make him feel so damn bad why doesn't he just end it...

 

I'm tired of his passive aggressive demeanor and narcissism.. Everything is my fault and quite frankly I'm getting really sick and tired of being his scapegoat and emotional punching bag. What kind of woman am I that I bring out so much negativity in one person

 

This is bound to kill me if I don't end it. What does this BS even mean?

I'm confused.

 

He basically brings nothing to the table. You're a free agent and can dump his sorry ass any old time it pleases you and move on.

 

One would think he'd be a little more humble since he doesn't have the same options you do.

 

Unless he looks like Brad Pitt? Yeah, I didn't think so.

[Ifalltopieces]

I'm confused.

 

He basically brings nothing to the table. You're a free agent and can dump his sorry ass any old time it pleases you and move on.

 

One would think he'd be a little more humble since he doesn't have the same options you do.

 

Unless he looks like Brad Pitt? Yeah, I didn't think so.

 

No Brad Pitt.

I have no idea what I see in him.

I seriously need to drop him and never look back.

[Dela]

No Brad Pitt.

I have no idea what I see in him.

I seriously need to drop him and never look back.

 

 

if u were to ask yourself seriously what is the reason u can t drop him, what would be your answers?

[Ifalltopieces]

if u were to ask yourself seriously what is the reason u can t drop him, what would be your answers?

 

 

It's such a cop out to say I don't know, but I don't know.

 

I guess there is a deficiency somewhere inside me. My head tells me constantly to drop him and end it, but there is this small part that always keeps me from doing it..and during the times I HAVE done it, I let him back in.

 

If I really thought about it, I would have to say probably the dysfunction from my childhood. But I don't wanna use that as a crutch. I did this. On my own free will. And karma is really a b****.

[Ifalltopieces]

What is the real reason behind MM picking fights with OW?

 

For example, MM called me today. We chatted for a few. Good convo. Ended on great terms. A few hours later he is cold. He seems annoyed and he is pointing out ALL of the things I do wrong and twisting everything I say. He accuses me of not wanting him and tells me I'm not texting him enough. When in reality, I was texting him and he was giving me one word responses.

 

What's the deal? We are suppose to meet in 30 minutes. After all of that he had the oddasity to ask me if we could fool around. I said no. How can he expect me to go from defendkng myself to wanting to be intimate? When I said no, he became even more annoyed and said "well then ok". Now he won't barely answer my texts.

 

I typed out my goodbye text and I have it saved and ready to go. I think this is really it.

I know when I see him it's going to get ugly. It usually ends with me in tears and I'm the one apologizing. This time I'm not letting that happen.

[Poppy47]

He really knows how to manipulate him.... don't dance the dance.

Poppy

[Lurkeraspect]

What is the real reason behind MM picking fights with OW?

 

For example, MM called me today. We chatted for a few. Good convo. Ended on great terms. A few hours later he is cold. He seems annoyed and he is pointing out ALL of the things I do wrong and twisting everything I say. He accuses me of not wanting him and tells me I'm not texting him enough. When in reality, I was texting him and he was giving me one word responses.

 

What's the deal? We are suppose to meet in 30 minutes. After all of that he had the oddasity to ask me if we could fool around. I said no. How can he expect me to go from defendkng myself to wanting to be intimate? When I said no, he became even more annoyed and said "well then ok". Now he won't barely answer my texts.

 

I typed out my goodbye text and I have it saved and ready to go. I think this is really it.

I know when I see him it's going to get ugly. It usually ends with me in tears and I'm the one apologizing. This time I'm not letting that happen.

 

He likely treats his wife the exact same way. I'd be thanking my lucky stars that all you have to do is push send on that "goodbye text". Can't really see what the attraction would be with this guy. He sounds like a 14 year old little boy.

[Sassy Girl]

Sounds like a narc and you're his supply. Dysfunction of the highest order. Nothing is about you. It's about him. He's an emotional vampire and he will break you down and down and down until you end up apologising and you dont my even know what youve done. It's abusive.

Edited July 26, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[HappyAgain2014]

What is the real reason behind MM picking fights with OW?

 

For example, MM called me today. We chatted for a few. Good convo. Ended on great terms. A few hours later he is cold. He seems annoyed and he is pointing out ALL of the things I do wrong and twisting everything I say. He accuses me of not wanting him and tells me I'm not texting him enough. When in reality, I was texting him and he was giving me one word responses.

 

What's the deal? We are suppose to meet in 30 minutes. After all of that he had the oddasity to ask me if we could fool around. I said no. How can he expect me to go from defendkng myself to wanting to be intimate? When I said no, he became even more annoyed and said "well then ok". Now he won't barely answer my texts.

 

I typed out my goodbye text and I have it saved and ready to go. I think this is really it.

I know when I see him it's going to get ugly. It usually ends with me in tears and I'm the one apologizing. This time I'm not letting that happen.

 

The real reason is to see if you'll put up with it. It's a game and you're the yo-yo. He might also be taking out life's aggravations on you. Again, if you put up with it, there's always another time.

 

Make sure you mean it if you end it. If you're playing a game, he will see right through it knowing you'll be back for more. Each time a little weaker.

 

Send it and make it clear he is not permitted to contact you. Tell him if he does, you will contact his wife. Then block him. If he contacts you, tell his wife.

 

Again, don't make any proclamations you won't follow through with.

[Ifalltopieces]

In the beginning my affair was fun, exciting and it was all I wanted.

 

Now it's draining. I feel shut down and I feel empty inside. I walk away from seeing MM and I feel like nothing more than a cheap whore. I feel like a used piece of toilet paper.

 

Almost 2 years later and I feel like a different person. It's like I don't even know who I am anymore. I'm doing things and accepting things that I would never have dreamed of doing. I am a disgrace.

 

As sick as it is, I want to know I'm not alone. I would like to hear about the OW who have been where I am and found peace afterwards. What finally made you snap? How did you intitiate NC? Do you have any regrets? What did you learn?

[Dela]

In the beginning my affair was fun, exciting and it was all I wanted.

 

Now it's draining. I feel shut down and I feel empty inside. I walk away from seeing MM and I feel like nothing more than a cheap whore. I feel like a used piece of toilet paper.

 

Almost 2 years later and I feel like a different person. It's like I don't even know who I am anymore. I'm doing things and accepting things that I would never have dreamed of doing. I am a disgrace.

 

As sick as it is, I want to know I'm not alone. I would like to hear about the OW who have been where I am and found peace afterwards. What finally made you snap? How did you intitiate NC? Do you have any regrets? What did you learn?

 

 

i did feel a little relief after i ended it. i can t explain exactly. i didn t snap, i was thinking to break up for 2 months.

 

i made this decision because things were going nowhere. he was not even close to a D, he was just thinking about it, being confused etc. i "offered" to wait if he needed, he kinda said no so i figured it s time for me to go.

 

we had a good connection, we never actually fought, he was never disrespectful or angry or violent, he was there for me when i was pregnant, he spent many nights at my place. it all looked like a normal relationship.

 

before we broke up i started to feel really low everytime he had to go home.

i felt sorry for myself, angry at myself and all sorts of things.

 

we broke up face to face last week, i told him to go home and raise his kids and take responsibility for his choices.

 

i don t regret entering the A,being in it or ending it. i only regret that it HAD to end.

 

i still dont know what i learned...

[E-Heart]

In the beginning my affair was fun, exciting and it was all I wanted.

 

Now it's draining. I feel shut down and I feel empty inside. I walk away from seeing MM and I feel like nothing more than a cheap whore. I feel like a used piece of toilet paper.

 

Almost 2 years later and I feel like a different person. It's like I don't even know who I am anymore. I'm doing things and accepting things that I would never have dreamed of doing. I am a disgrace.

 

As sick as it is, I want to know I'm not alone. I would like to hear about the OW who have been where I am and found peace afterwards. What finally made you snap? How did you intitiate NC? Do you have any regrets? What did you learn?

 

I feel like everything I've done in the passed 2.5 years has gone against everything I believe in....which is why I find this really hard! I've destroyed myself completely....my beliefs, my self-esteem....everything!

 

Now I'm picking myself back up and will be even stronger! You can do it!

Now you know where you don't want to be anymore and what to avoid

[Ifalltopieces]

 

"before we broke up i started to feel really low everytime he had to go home.

i felt sorry for myself, angry at myself and all sorts of things."

 

 

I understand this feeling. Every time we have to part ways I am overwhelmed with sadness.

 

You mention you were pregnant and he was there for you...was he the father of your baby? If I got pregnant by MM I know I would be on my own. He likes to say that he wants me to have his baby so he can "be tied" to me forever but I know it's BS. If it really happened he would s*** himself and run for the hills.

[Dela]

 

"before we broke up i started to feel really low everytime he had to go home.

i felt sorry for myself, angry at myself and all sorts of things."

 

 

I understand this feeling. Every time we have to part ways I am overwhelmed with sadness.

 

You mention you were pregnant and he was there for you...was he the father of your baby? If I got pregnant by MM I know I would be on my own. He likes to say that he wants me to have his baby so he can "be tied" to me forever but I know it's BS. If it really happened he would s*** himself and run for the hills.

 

 

Yes, he was the father. Told me whatevwr i decide to do, he will support me. I kinda didn t trust he will though (it happened after 1 and a half month). He said he will leave his W and so on, but the situation was too messed up. I did not want to risk having a baby in this situation or being a single mom.

I do regret my choice now. It was really hard for me to go thru this but i m almost 100% that he would have never left and certainly i didn t want to use my baby to keep him tied or something.

But yes he s been there for me, feeling even more miserable. He cooked for me, fed me, put me to sleep like a baby.

So there, one lesson learnt: use a condom!!!

[Dela]

Thinking to end it?

[Lovebug66]

I hope you don't mind me chiming in here as I don't have the experience of being the OW, but I certainly have the experience of being in a relationship with a man like your MM. In fact..is your MM my H?

 

My feelings are flat out wrong. Stupid. It's always my fault, and although I have gotten better at it, there are still those times where he gets me so rattled in the blame game out comes the apology. It's madding, and it slowly drives you crazy. Literally. I'm surprised I wasn't sent to the looney bin somewhere in the first 13 years of our relationship. Yet for some reason we stay with them...they know how to put our self esteem in the toilet and as long as its there we stay.

 

You have to regain that self esteem. That is the power they have over us. I was just a nice, kind, look for the best in everyone person before my H. That turned into codependency, because of how my self worth got tied completely up in him. I say this as gently as I can, you are headed down that same path. The longer you stay, the harder it is to break away. I'm on 16 years now, I've even asked for a divorce and he's still manipulating and making me think I'm nuts for leaving him...and I still can't just pack a freaking bag, grab my son and say eff off.

 

Time will never make it easier. Start taking your life back from this guy NOW. He will continue to ask you to sell yourself out more, then point out how crappy of a person you are for doing what he asked...really, the nerve. That one makes me really angry. I'm certainly not the poster child for just up and leaving so I won't beat you up for not going NC in the next 20 minutes BUT, you can start regaining your self esteem in the next 20 minutes. You are worth more than this sweetie. Take care of yourself.

[Ifalltopieces]

Thinking to end it?

 

 

I know I have too and I need too, and I want too. I don't want to be lied to anymore and I don't like the person I have become.

 

It's the doing it part where I get all messed up. Something holds me back and until I found out what that something is, I will stay his prisoner.

 

I've been praying a lot and asking for Peace. I've also been doing a lot of soul searching...I'm trying to pin point the reasons that led me down this path. I'm working on it...