The pain is KILLING ME

[Lizzy36]

The pain is so awful. OMG. One day I'm OK, realize how unhappy I was too, but then the next, I'm slipping back into deep depression and pain that, even when I'm not consciously thinking about it, doesn't go away all day and I cry and cry and cry. The pain literally takes over my entire body. Feels like my soul is being ripped physically out of me and torn into a million pieces.

 

I know I need to let him go. He would never make a decision like this, a D, without being certain that's what he wants. I know him.

 

What kills me most is how quickly he's been able to move on. He's a very emotionally-void, stoic, businesslike person to begin with. That's just how he's wired. And I realize he just doesn't feel emotion as deeply as people like me. But when we met, it was electrifying and extremely special, unlike anything I've ever experienced in my life. We both knew immediately we the "ones" and we got married in 15 months. And we did everything together, were always together, even up to the end.

The fact that he's "done" so easily and quickly is astonishing to me. Like I and our life, home, etc was some ball and chain preventing him from having the life he really wanted.

He moved out 6 weeks ago, saying he wanted to separate while we went to counseling. Even then, he made no promises of coming back, but he called, texted me constantly and took me out on dates, etc. But 2 weeks later, he dropped the Big D in counseling, saying he just couldn't forgive the past and didn't want to try. He said we had a lot of good times, and knows we CAN and do get along, but the problem is when conflict arises, and he just doesn't trust anything will change.

 

I've come to realize, as I said, that I've been unhappy too, just in a LOT of denial. We were both verbally abusive to each other in our own ways...although he's made a career of playing the "victim" and never being wrong.

 

But I believe in marriage, I believe anything can be overcome if both parties are willing. But he's not willing. And I'm dying inside. Literally dying. I've even fantasized about suicide, but I know I'd never go through with it. When I'm driving, there've been many times I've wished I'd just happen to get into a car accident and die.

 

I've never been like this. I'm usually a strong person. But for the past 2 days, I've just been inconsolable.

 

I don't know why I'm saying all this to a bunch of strangers. Guess I'm just looking for some support and to know I'm not alone.

[Timshel]

I am sorry that you are hurting so badly. However, you are not dying. A part of you is.

You believe in marriage but marriage requires two people who are equally committed to each other. You don't have that.

You want something that you do not have with him but are willing to walk away from a future with someone that you will? If you knew that around this bend you will meet someone who will love you and you will love, would you choose to leave now? Not knowing what your future holds for you? Over a failed marriage?

This is a difficult time for you but leaving is not an option. Talk to close friends and family. Go to counseling for yourself. Taking your life over a failed relationship is off the table. This will pass. A door is closing and one is opening but you are in too much sadness to see. Trust me.

Go to the therapist and talk about your pain, cry, it's ok to be sad. Crapping out before you live is off the table.

[justaplottwist]

I come around on the boards every so often...and reply when I see a post like this.

 

Please know that this enormous amount of pain you feel is normal. It's your brain beginning to detach and heal from your relationship. The more deeply you were attached, the more pain you are going to feel.

 

This is not unlike most injuries. Those first few hours/days/weeks are excruciating. Your brain is trying to keep up with the day to day while trying to protect you from the trauma of what has happened. And it does a good job at keeping us from feeling the enormity of it 24/7...but every so often that CRUSHING pain rears its head. And we cry. And cry. Totally normal.

 

It shows you have the ability to bond deeply with someone.

 

And from experience....it does take two people who want the marriage. No matter how much you want to save it. It's heartbreaking...and frustrating....and a myriad of a lot emotions that compound the situation. But the bottom line is....you have to take care of you now.

 

I have been dealing with an emotionless/cold stbx...and it just adds to the sadness and pain. I'm just glad I'm not broken that way....that I can feel...and let others know how I feel in terms of caring/love/etc.

 

Take it slow. Let your brain do it's thing. It's going to take a while. It's a traumatic event....there are no shortcuts to healing. Some days you'll feel strong...others will be the complete pits. Totally normal.

 

You aren't alone. Not by a long shot. I'm sure other posters will give you some good advice/comfort too.

 

I'm sorry you are going through this.

[No Limit]

He's moving on because neither of you two, whether you or OW, meant that much to him. The only emotion he'll show is anger when you "keep the act up" by being angry or "dramatic" about something "so meaningless that happened in the past", or whatever line he will use to sweep everything under the rug.

 

You say you're not financially able to get a lawyer. Can you at least cease contact with him, since you two don't have kids?

[Hope Shimmers]

Didn't you post in your other thread from yesterday that you are considering getting into a relationship with an old lover who is in a committed relationship?

 

It sounds to me like you are extremely confused. At least. If you want your marriage back so much, why are you reconnecting with past flames and considering getting into an affair situation? Probably not the best way to get your husband back, if there is any chance of that.

[Lizzy36]

Thanks so much for your support and encouraging words, everyone.

 

Yes, I'm extremely confused, all over the place. And after seeing everyone's responses yesterday, I had a wake up call and I've blocked that guy's number.

 

D is inevitable, stbx would never change his mind about something like this. I know him well enough to know that. And that's the hardest thing to come to terms with, which is why I'm all over the board, trying anything to cope and mask the pain. It's terrible.

[LoveMyCat]

You need to stop seeing or talking to him, if he is so positive he wants a divorce. He shouldn't be filling any of his needs, whatever they are, by seeing you, whether it is guilt or whatever. If he wants out, show him the door.

[justaplottwist]

I've read your other posts....and your husband's behavior sounds exactly like how my stbx acted.

 

It's been a year for me....and the fog of the situation lifted about two months ago. Before that...I was a confused mess.

 

The passive aggressiveness. The mixed signals. The stone cold emotionless. It was beyond crazymaking.

 

There were days that it was more than I could take.

 

Finally, I went "low contact"(we have a child)....and it was the BEST thing I could have done for myself.

 

I did not answer his calls. I read emails...and if they pertained our child or IMPORTANT matters regarding our divorce...I answered.

 

I began to see the manipulation and selfishness on his part a LOT clearer after that.

 

If I were to do it again....I would have gotten my blinders on and taken care of ME from the start. I just couldn't wrap my head around the whole thing quickly. I imagine a lot of people have some good 20/20 hindsight during this kind of situation.

 

 

If you have no children, I HIGHLY recommend going "No Contact". It will give your brain less to have to deal with and lets it get to the business of healing you. Each unnecessary contact sets your brain's healing back quite a bit. It just has to work that much harder to get you back again.

 

Take care of yourself. You are worth it. No person decides your worth....ever.

[Popsicle]

I always say that divorce feels like getting your right arm chopped off. It's devastating. But you will recover and take the lessons of life with you.

 

Wishing you well.

[Yasuandio]

Lizzy,

I have not seen the other threads, but the first post here sounds very much like a Narcissist relationship. Quick to charm you off your feet, just as quick to devastate you, without a care - without empathy. Your personality sounds sweet, kind, gentle, trusting. These are some qualities that the narcissist tries to look for in a partner.

 

I am not a doctor, but I have read extensively on this subject, and was, I believe, married to such a Narcissist person. I am a kind, gentle, trusting, naive (at times), person - and did have some issues with drawing boundaries. He got away with a lot.

 

The literature says these Narcissist never change - I believe that is true. I think they do always come back, unless you seriously cause them what is referred to as a "Narcissistic Injury," and even then, they still believe you are their personal back up supply of adoration (should they need you at any point). That is what you must be concerned about. Mine came back a dozen times.

 

The literature says to get out of it. But some experts will give you a few techniques (that are reducing yourself, essentially), to enhance your relationship with your Narcissist and try to keep him happy - but it is not good. If you do this, you must come from a position of STRENGTH, not weakness. A Narcissist has contempt for both strength and weakness - but he is intimidated by strength - and sees it as a challenge.

 

Therefore, my suggestion, is to think only of yourself at this time. Develop your strength. Leave the pity-party. Dry your eyes, and pull it together. You can do it. No contact is about getting yourself under emotional control. Now is the time to do this in the event that man may be a Narcissist, and try to attract you at a weak moment, as I suspect (that will really cut you to the bone). His appearance might only happen if you went into high gear NO CONTACT and got an attorney and filed a divorce. That is exactly what you need to do. Or, go to self help desk at Court house, and do it yourself.

 

I would ask you to read some articles in the Critical Readings pinned thread (link in my signature), the latest links on Narcissism, Homer McDonald, gaslighting. I would also ask you to look up the U-Tubed by Dr.Sam - he has excellent explanation on personality qualities in relationships, that I am noticing here.

 

I hope this information rings a bell. If not, I apologize if I misunderstood. There is some sort of dysfunction in this guy, maybe "Downtown" can futher illuminate it if I have wrongly assessed the signs. Yas

[Lizzy36]

Yas- thank you so much for your kind words =)

 

And you're very perceptive -- he's definitely has narcissistic traits (although not full blown) and the things I've read on gaslighting seem pretty spot on. Will definitely check out your reading recommendations, thank you!

 

Is he still a narcissist if he rarely lost his temper? Is it still gaslighting if it's not intentional or subconscious?

 

He's also passive aggressive with an avoidant attachment style.

 

He really scares me when he's angry, not in a physical way, but his tone and demeanor seemed repugnant and abhorrent of me, extremely judgmental. It started out with fearing him on things like finances. And eventually, fearing what I did/said around him AND especially when out with friends and just in public in general (he always made sure I knew when I didn't behave myself).

 

But he's not the yelling/screaming/easily enraged kind guy, which made this extremely difficult to detect. He's very stoic, calm, steady, reserved, robotic, never know what he's thinking, rarely "loses his cool."

 

But over time, I picked up subtle clues when I saw his interactions with other people in his life. To their face, he's charming and low-key, very reserved. But when talking alone with me, I saw how arrogant he is and how extremely judgmental, critical and disgusted he is of other people's choices, behaviors and weaknesses.

 

And forgiveness? Letting go of the past, no record-keeping of wrongs? NEVER.

 

And it finally dawned on me recently: that's how he treats ME!!!

 

***siiiiigh****

 

I didn't love or respect myself enough to not let him treat me that way, though. It was also so hard to detect, and because he was my Knight, I figured "he's better than me anyway, so he's probably right" and I'd roll over and apologize, hoping I could earn my way back to the honeymoon phase someday.

 

Looking back, I'm astonished at how incredibly deep my denial had become. I'm shocked I didn't recognize how much I'd grown to hate myself, never trust myself or my own judgments, and willingness to take all the blame and be so controlled. And I'm shocked I continued to view him as "Mr. Perfect" rather than a human being.

 

But then....I slip into these moments where I second-guess myself again and go back to the ol' familiar denial and self blame. Is he really narcissistic, PA, avoidant??? Or am I just looking for coping mechanisms to ease the pain? Was I really that awful?

 

And that's when I get really really sad and extremely scared, of both the divorce process and how he'll treat me during. He says he wants "everything to go nice and smooth and fair", and without lawyers, but he's become very cold and aloof, but still controlling in odd ways.

 

Period of no contact (my request to regain my strength) is ending soon, so Yas, you're right, I've gotta dry my tears, take back my power and fasten my seat belt.

Edited March 24, 2015 by Lizzy36

[justaplottwist]

We married the same man.

 

My husband was also calm, quiet, and rarely yelled. But his contempt was always there....even with a smile. That's what it made it so confusing during the marriage and then through our divorce.

 

I kept taking the blame because I was more vocal...more emotional. And he would smile/smirk when I would finally go bananas with frustration.

 

I finally read up on covert abuse/covert narcissism. And it helped so much.

 

It's so insidious, it makes you doubt yourself all.....the....time. It wasn't until I went "low contact" during our divorce that I finally could see how he continued to do it....and it made me sick. I could finally see the manipulative "nice guy" that kept doing things to make my life miserable.

 

After that, I had no more doubts about myself.

 

I take ownership for my part in the marriage, but when you are dealing with a disordered person.....it questions what part you had. I know if I had been dealing with someone who was upfront, honest, and wasn't constantly trying to manipulate me, I believe I could have had a great marriage.

 

I didn't get that. And I didn't realize I didn't get that until wayyyyyyyy into it....and even then I didn't understand what was going on.

 

Read up on covert abuse. It's no joke...and it really can mess a person up mentally.

 

Take care of yourself. I'm sorry you are going through this.

[Yasuandio]

Yas- thank you so much for your kind words =)

 

And you're very perceptive -- he's definitely has narcissistic traits (although not full blown) and the things I've read on gaslighting seem pretty spot on. Will definitely check out your reading recommendations, thank you!

 

Is he still a narcissist if he rarely lost his temper? Is it still gaslighting if it's not intentional or subconscious?

 

It is gaslighting when it simply him telling you things that generally begin to make you doubt your self. Or, it can be gaslight when he completely distorts reality on purpose as says that, "oh, you just don't recall this or that." It is gaslighting when a subtle statement, perhaps, subconsciously is stated, such as "are you sure you want to wear that?" All these types of comments begin to cause one to second guess oneself - as the questions come off so innocently at first. Then the questions and statements begin to esculate as the gaslighting begins to take root. "You always act crazy." "You made a fool out of yourself." ""You can never shut up." Or, whatever.

 

He's also passive aggressive with an avoidant attachment style.

 

PA is a tool of a Narcissist.

 

He really scares me when he's angry, not in a physical way, but his tone and demeanor seemed repugnant and abhorrent of me, extremely judgmental. It started out with fearing him on things like finances. And eventually, fearing what I did/said around him AND especially when out with friends and just in public in general (he always made sure I knew when I didn't behave myself).

 

That's called walking on eggshells. He has you under his control.

 

But he's not the yelling/screaming/easily enraged kind guy, which made this extremely difficult to detect. He's very stoic, calm, steady, reserved, robotic, never know what he's thinking, rarely "loses his cool."

 

That's called the Narcissist's facade or mask.

 

But over time, I picked up subtle clues when I saw his interactions with other people in his life. To their face, he's charming and low-key, very reserved. But when talking alone with me, I saw how arrogant he is and how extremely judgmental, critical and disgusted he is of other people's choices, behaviors and weaknesses.

 

The Narcissist has different masks for different occasions, depending on whom he needs to attract for his Narcissist supply. The "Charming" mask is most likely the one you fell head over heels for, and he swept you off your feet. Once you were firmly in his grip, he was safe to let the mask fall. Eventually, the mask always falls, and behind it is an empty shell.

 

And forgiveness? Letting go of the past, no record-keeping of wrongs? NEVER.

 

Narcissist's lack empathy, which is needed for forgiveness. The Narcissist could care less about being forgiven, they are only concerned with getting back into the gate to gain their narcissistic supply source again.

 

And it finally dawned on me recently: that's how he treats ME!!!

 

You must turn this attitude around. It has dawned on you that this is how you've allowed yourself to be treated. You have been the willing victim of the Narcissist. Most likely due to having "some" of personality traits that attract Narcissists such as: excessive kindness, over-trusting, forgiving, sweet, naive, lonely, hungry for love or attention, poor or no boundaries.

 

***siiiiigh****

 

I didn't love or respect myself enough to not let him treat me that way, though. It was also so hard to detect, and because he was my Knight, I figured "he's better than me anyway, so he's probably right" and I'd roll over and apologize, hoping I could earn my way back to the honeymoon phase someday.

 

That is the MO, alright. But now you see it. It took me two decades to see it. Be smart and get away. He is not going to change.

 

Looking back, I'm astonished at how incredibly deep my denial had become. I'm shocked I didn't recognize how much I'd grown to hate myself, never trust myself or my own judgments, and willingness to take all the blame and be so controlled. And I'm shocked I continued to view him as "Mr. Perfect" rather than a human being.

 

But then....I slip into these moments where I second-guess myself again and go back to the ol' familiar denial and self blame. Is he really narcissistic, PA, avoidant??? Or am I just looking for coping mechanisms to ease the pain? Was I really that awful?

 

No, it is not awful. It takes time to learn and grow. Forget about the past, it is gone. What is great is you are onto a new future and your eyes are open. No matter what you do, you will now come at this situation with knowledge and a perspective of understanding (rather than a confused state).

 

And that's when I get really really sad and extremely scared, of both the divorce process and how he'll treat me during. He says he wants "everything to go nice and smooth and fair", and without lawyers, but he's become very cold and aloof, but still controlling in odd ways.

 

If a divorce comes into this situation, you must be armed with an attorney. There is no other way, unless you wish to walk away with nothing (which is a viable option). The Narcissist will fight you tooth and nail in Court - and will not cooperate. My divorce took 4 years, I won't say anymore here, but it was a complete disaster. Your best bet is to have something on him. But your attorney must guide you in negotiations. The only way to bargain with a Narcissist is to frighten them with whatever can. But, this must be done properly within the confines of the system. As the Narcissist will have his game face on, and use his charm to try to present you as CRAZY. Reflect back how convincing he has been in duping you and others - it happens in Court this way as well.

 

Period of no contact (my request to regain my strength) is ending soon, so Yas, you're right, I've gotta dry my tears, take back my power and fasten my seat belt.

 

Now, sweetheart, I want you to go over to U-Tube and watch all the videos on Narcissism that spark your interest. This Sam Vaknin is actually a true Narcissist/psychopath himself -- but he breaks down many facets of the topic. Mr. Vaknin uses up to five unnecessary adjectives per sentence, and multiple terminologies that mean the same thing (because he is a Narcissist and wants to sound smart), but you'll get used to it after watching a few videos, as you discover, he is just repeating the same jargon over and over. After seeing all of his videos - you will be an expert on this topic. Especially watch the one about the "Narcissist in Court."

 

OK. That will keep you busy. I'm listening to them myself. Having been addicted to a Narcissist is a hard habit to break. And I am working very hard to build back my self esteme, and my inner strength. You are not alone. Yas

[Yasuandio]

Lizzy, I just posted another series of Narcissism U-Tubes on the critical readings thread. They are animated - a little more colorful than the usual textbook jargon. They were perfect, cause there was no advertising on them, as that is a violation of LS policy. Check it out. Yas

[LoveMyCat]

I hope you live in a community property state...that way,,what he wants won't matter, a judge will split everything down the middle.

 

But don't do it without a lawyer, unless neither of you have or own anything at all. But if any property is involved (real estate, 401k, etc.). He wants a divorce but that does not mean he gets to make all the rules.

[bamawsp]

No one can prepare you for the pain. It is simply indescribable. I filed last Thursday and I'm living under the same roof as my WS and children.

 

I've never felt so isolated or helpless. This is a marathon..........

[Lizzy36]

bama--I know the feeling....I can't IMAGINE living under the same roof while going through this. HOLY CRAP!!! I'm so sorry....do either of you have plans yet to rearrange the living situation soon? And why were you the one to file, rather than your spouse?

 

As for me, I have to see him in person for the first time in a while to decide on how to "divide the house stuff." I'm trying really really really hard to maintain the progress I've made, but the anticipation is still literally making me sick to my stomach

[outthewindow]

Lizzy,

 

The pain and the roller coaster at normal, I know this because I'm on it too!

 

The only thing that got me through the times I wanted him back was coming here and posting, or reading other people's posts...

 

The only thing that got me through any face to face contact with him (or phone contact actually too) was to fake it till I (kind of almost) made it..

 

When it was time to talk money, I stuck to my guns and made sure I had a list of ready made, pre-prepared answers to anything he could have thrown at me and treated the whole discussion as a business deal with someone I didn't like very much who was definitely NOT there to look after my interests. The thought that there was no one in my corner but me made me stay strong and get through it and get what I needed.

 

If yours is anything like my X he won't expect you to come from a position of confidence and taking none of his crap... He won't know what hit him if you stand up to him. Stay strong, and don't give in on anything you will regret later, but don't hold onto anything that's not worth fighting about either, let him 'win' with those things you care less about.

 

Once the meeting is over, go sit in your car and cry as much as you need to. Just don't let him see it!

 

Good luck,

OTW

 

Edit... It's 2 weeks post D for me now, and I'm still on the roller coaster. It's normal, you're not strange or alone in this, most of us have been there or are still there!

Edited March 28, 2015 by outthewindow
see above

[bamawsp]

bama--I know the feeling....I can't IMAGINE living under the same roof while going through this. HOLY CRAP!!! I'm so sorry....do either of you have plans yet to rearrange the living situation soon? And why were you the one to file, rather than your spouse?

 

As for me, I have to see him in person for the first time in a while to decide on how to "divide the house stuff." I'm trying really really really hard to maintain the progress I've made, but the anticipation is still literally making me sick to my stomach

 

I filed because I was left no other option. My STBXW refused to cease all contact with her AP. I wanted to work things out but she is all in with her AP.

 

Our children have no idea I filed. She still doesn't want to talk about things either. In fact, we are all together out of town at one of my kids soccer tournament.

 

NC/LC is the only thing that works for me. Being around her this weekend has made things miserable. The feelings of desperately wanting her back have returned as have the insatiable sadness.

 

I just want it all to be over.

[DKT3]

I'm a bit confused. You talk a lot about him not forgiving the past, but you don't talk about what the past was. Now I'm just guessing here, but the way he is acting sugggests that there was a betrayal of some sort. Him running hot and cold tells me that he wants to be there and love you (hot) but there is an internal battle that makes him feel bad for it (cold).

 

You also hint at some blurred lines in terms of infidelity.

 

Divorce sucks, been there as have many of us here. I think its very important to understand and accept the role we played in leading to that point. I get the sense that your placing the bulk of it on his plate. It doesn't make the pain go away, but it will help you grow as a person and aide in not repeating the cycle in the future.

[MyEvilTwin]

If it's very painful and a setback to get together with him to divvy up house stuff, then don't.

You can make lists. Each of you list what you want and you can divide it all up and come to agreements on things you both want.

I did this through email. No physical contact is necessary. It worked very well. It also alleviates the disagreements over stuff, and alleviates the manipulation.

 

When you're hurting the best thing you can do for yourself is avoid as much as possible being in the presence of the person who causes you pain.

 

Never look to the person who is hurting you to heal you.

 

No contact goes against every fiber of your being when you have been rejected, however, it is the absolute best thing you can do for yourself. Trust this--millions will tell you it works much better than seeing him. Each time you see him it will be like ripping off the scab, you don't heal that way.