Friend zone vs marrying best friend.

[somedude81]

I'm often surprised that men struggle to understand the "friendzone" concept at all.

 

Maybe it's because men in general are less picky.

 

But I could ask a man to walk down the street and point out every women he'd never consider sleeping with.

 

It's *exactly* the same for women.

 

You just don't push their buttons. You don't have to do anything wrong, or be ugly, or even undesirable. It's often not personal at all. For whatever reason, they just. aren't. interested.

 

The problem with friendzone is that men are far more likely to develop an emotional/romantic attachment to their female friends, while for some reason this doesn't happen to women in regards to their male friends. Men are far more likely to fall for their opposite sex friends then the other way around.

 

Honestly it seems that something is wrong with women where they would prefer to date strangers, than somebody they are friends with.

[neowulf]

For me, I had trouble understanding it for a bit, because I don't deal in totality.

 

If I had a really cool female friend I would be attracted to her to some degree. I would probably at least date her for a bit, or at the VERY least bat around the idea in my head. And I have actually been attracted to all of my good female friends in varying degrees.

 

But women who have rejected me seem to have come to the conclusion that the attraction meter is zero and always has been zero. Which I don't think all women think like that, but a lot do.

 

But most men aren't like me either. Most men deal in totality and can give a firm yes or no upon the first 10 seconds.

 

I think a better assessment is the more options/attention you have had growing up, the more attraction is a yes/no matter for you, male or female.

 

I understand what you're saying, but you already added an important qualifier to my original statement.. "If I had a cool female friend". As in, a women you've already grown to know and have a relationship with (friends). I'm talking about just random women you pass on the street.

 

Maybe she's grossly over weight? Maybe you don't like her dress sense? Maybe you don't like the way her face looks? Maybe you don't like her figure.

 

The point is, most men can quickly point out women they'd *never* sleep with.

 

I'm just suggesting it's like that with women. You can think you're pretty great, but for what ever reason, she's gone and made up her mind about you.

 

There's a great bit by comedian Chris Rock;

"A women decides in the first 30 seconds if she'd ever consider sleeping with a guy. She's there shaking his hand thinking "Oh yeah, I'd sleep with him, hope he doesn't say anything stupid".

 

The "Friendzone" appears to be this weird way of thinking, where men think getting a women to like them is some kind of formulaic process. That if they just follow steps A-Z, any women should want them.

 

When she doesn't, they become confused and frustrated by it.

 

Yet these same men can clearly and easily tell you "no, I'd never be interested in this women". Not, "Oh, maybe if I got to know her better and we had a few drinks and she was cool..."

Edited March 26, 2015 by neowulf

[JuneJulySeptember]

The problem with friendzone is that men are far more likely to develop an emotional/romantic attachment to their female friends, while for some reason this doesn't happen to women in regards to their male friends. Men are far more likely to fall for their opposite sex friends then the other way around.

 

Honestly it seems that something is wrong with women where they would prefer to date strangers, than somebody they are friends with.

 

I don't think that's more likely. I just think men are attracted to a broader range of women.

 

So, if a man has developed, say seven good female friends over the course of 5 years, he's likely to have been physically attracted to 5 of them or so from the start and reject the other 2.

 

With a woman, she's likely to be attracted to perhaps one of those seven and reject the other six.

 

In general of course. Everything varies with desirability.

[MGX]

For me, I had trouble understanding it for a bit, because I don't deal in totality.

 

If I had a really cool female friend I would be attracted to her to some degree. I would probably at least date her for a bit, or at the VERY least bat around the idea in my head. And I have actually been attracted to all of my good female friends in varying degrees.

 

You assume a female friend is going to be attractive...

 

What if your really cool female friend is fun to hang around, but she's ugly or too big? Has that ever happened to you?

Edited March 27, 2015 by MGX

[JuneJulySeptember]

You assume a female friend is going to be attractive...

 

What if your really cool female friend is fun to hang around, but she's ugly or too big? Has that ever happened to you?

 

Nope, not really.

 

All of them have been attractive to some degree.

 

There's a woman I work with who is big, but her face is pretty cute. Another one is older and big, but she has a nice smile. I would not COMPLETELY rule her out just by seeing her. Would sex with their bodies be less than ideal? Yes. But that doesn't mean I have ZERO attraction.

 

I mean, yes there are women I have absolutely zero attraction to, but it is a small amount.

 

But yes, I understand that's how it is. Women who are not attracted to me, see me as I see the fat, ugly, one-legged toothless woman for all intents and purposes ... and I'm cool with it.

 

I'm more than willing these days to take my no as fast as they can give it and move on to the next.

Edited March 27, 2015 by JuneJulySeptember

[neowulf]

I'm more than willing these days to take my no as fast as they can give it and move on to the next.

 

Best advice in the whole thread. Don't waste energy trying to change the mind of a woman who's decided your only "friend" material.

 

Go find one who struggles not to tear your clothes off

[Garcon1986]

So the mysterious thing here is:

I play 10 instruments, sing, work out, dance all sorts of latin dance, tango, foxtrot, waltz, Irish stepdance (Riverdance), cook, work as a doctor, have a healthy lifestyle, and keep well groomed and well dressed.

 

When I have a date, I only reveal one or two of these things and reveal the others over time if asked. None of my dates have been "in to me that way" yet. I have yet to find a single woman who thoroughly enjoys my presence and wants to take me home with her.

 

Why if I am trying to woo a beautiful woman, that she would pick a cute guy who drinks and has large arms/ chiseled face, with not that many life skills over myself who has it made? I don't understand why my life accomplishments are not valuable in the dating scene. Why would a lady pick someone with less life skills is beyond my comprehension. The only reason is - the lady only cares about cuteness and how muscular he is? If that's the case there's nothing I can do about that.

 

So close yet so far.

[Garcon1986]

Or is it a lost cause because I am an Asian guy looking for a Caucasian date?

[windows]

Or is it a lost cause because I am an Asian guy looking for a Caucasian date?

 

WHOA SOMEONE JUST PULLED OUT THE RACE CARD! As another asian guy - I would actually say race *might* matter. It really depends on the girl you're after.

 

The last girl I went out with was caucasian - and we were really quite interested in each other. So I wouldn't say race is the be-all and end-all in explaining friendzoning. It depends on what the women in your area are like. Some women (just like men) will be 'racist' in their romantic choices - and that's just an unfortunate handicap of not being the stereotypical white anglo-saxon male. (There are statistics showing that all women are generally more likely to be attracted to white guys than other races.)

[LookAtThisPOst]

I'm just suggesting it's like that with women. You can think you're pretty great, but for what ever reason, she's gone and made up her mind about you.

 

I think that's the problem with women, they seem to discount or not even willing to give it time. Hell, some forgoe even having fun at Meetups if "cute guys" aren't on the RSVP list, so they'd just rather sit at home on a Sat. night logged into their Match.com sites or whatever. There's ton of new women that join these Meetups, but never go to a single event. In fact, I think some mistake Meetup.com as a dating site and not a site where people gather in REAL time to socialize. LOL

 

Like someone here said earlier, men are willing to give it more lead time and are less rigid about their demands and less demanding. Women seem to have this bullet list of things that if you don't meet a SINGLE one of them, you're out of the running.

[LookAtThisPOst]

So the mysterious thing here is:

I play 10 instruments, sing, work out, dance all sorts of latin dance, tango, foxtrot, waltz, Irish stepdance (Riverdance), cook, work as a doctor, have a healthy lifestyle, and keep well groomed and well dressed.

 

When I have a date, I only reveal one or two of these things and reveal the others over time if asked. None of my dates have been "in to me that way" yet. I have yet to find a single woman who thoroughly enjoys my presence and wants to take me home with her.

 

Why if I am trying to woo a beautiful woman, that she would pick a cute guy who drinks and has large arms/ chiseled face, with not that many life skills over myself who has it made? I don't understand why my life accomplishments are not valuable in the dating scene. Why would a lady pick someone with less life skills is beyond my comprehension. The only reason is - the lady only cares about cuteness and how muscular he is? If that's the case there's nothing I can do about that.

 

So close yet so far.

 

Well, some have said here to "hit the gym and bulk up" *Shrug*

[JuneJulySeptember]

So the mysterious thing here is:

I play 10 instruments, sing, work out, dance all sorts of latin dance, tango, foxtrot, waltz, Irish stepdance (Riverdance), cook, work as a doctor, have a healthy lifestyle, and keep well groomed and well dressed.

 

When I have a date, I only reveal one or two of these things and reveal the others over time if asked. None of my dates have been "in to me that way" yet. I have yet to find a single woman who thoroughly enjoys my presence and wants to take me home with her.

 

Why if I am trying to woo a beautiful woman, that she would pick a cute guy who drinks and has large arms/ chiseled face, with not that many life skills over myself who has it made? I don't understand why my life accomplishments are not valuable in the dating scene. Why would a lady pick someone with less life skills is beyond my comprehension. The only reason is - the lady only cares about cuteness and how muscular he is? If that's the case there's nothing I can do about that.

 

So close yet so far.

 

Because love at its core is about sex, and sex is about physical attraction.

 

I mean, not all people are so quick to reject based solely on the physical, but most are.

[somedude81]

Or is it a lost cause because I am an Asian guy looking for a Caucasian date?

 

Yet another guy who doesn't want to date women of his own ethnicity.

 

Seriously dude, you would probably have much better luck with not going after the same white girls that everybody wants.

[MGX]

Yet another guy who doesn't want to date women of his own ethnicity.

 

Seriously dude, you would probably have much better luck with not going after the same white girls that everybody wants.

 

You might as well widen your search parameters if sticking with your own race isn't working out.

[somedude81]

You might as well widen your search parameters if sticking with your own race isn't working out.

 

Uh, Garcon1986 is an Asian guy who is only going after white girls.

 

I'm saying he would have better luck if he gave up the white girls and went after Asian girls instead.

[xxoo]

 

Why if I am trying to woo a beautiful woman, that she would pick a cute guy who drinks and has large arms/ chiseled face, with not that many life skills over myself who has it made? I don't understand why my life accomplishments are not valuable in the dating scene. Why would a lady pick someone with less life skills is beyond my comprehension. The only reason is - the lady only cares about cuteness and how muscular he is? If that's the case there's nothing I can do about that.

 

Why a "beautiful woman"?

 

No, women aren't only concerned with cuteness and muscles. How focused are you on beauty?

[dreamingoftigers]

Why a "beautiful woman"?

 

No, women aren't only concerned with cuteness and muscles. How focused are you on beauty?

 

Yeah, My Mom used to get really irritated with the "beautiful women" get to be in love stereotype.

 

Get right mad about it, "what about plain girls and ugly girls!? Guys fall in love with them too!"

 

Ironically enough, my mother was beautiful.

Quite beautiful. Guys would go all weird around her.

 

But.....she picked my Dad, who is this super-hairy, thick eyebrowed aggressive dude. He's only about 5'9"

 

So I inherited this dark, Italian hair and damn those eyebrows. And the weight problem. ARG. Thanks Mom! Why couldn't you be more superficial!?

 

Anyhow, why did she pick him?

 

They painted her roommate's apartment together, he would listen to her stories, drop by and offer to take her for lunch. Her roommate was his sister-in-law who had four daughters and my father's brother abandoned the family. So my Dad who was 17 did a bunch of domestic errands, brought groceries etc when he could for his nieces.

 

Then the job was done. He stopped being around as much except to bring the kids things. And my mother missed his company.

[Garcon1986]

Why a "beautiful woman"?

 

No, women aren't only concerned with cuteness and muscles. How focused are you on beauty?

 

I have to say it's very hard to ignore for me. It feels crummy to be surrounded by lots of attractive people who likely think I'm not attractive enough for them. I feel like if only I could date one of those people, then I would be so thrilled.

[BlueIris]

I have to say it's very hard to ignore for me. It feels crummy to be surrounded by lots of attractive people who likely think I'm not attractive enough for them. I feel like if only I could date one of those people, then I would be so thrilled.

 

Many physically attractive but accomplished people reject those who place great value on physical appearance or who view them as physically attractive first and foremost. Their ability to detect appearance-focused members of the opposite sex becomes excellent, and they avoid them.

 

example of some common disrespect the looks-obsessed tend to show attractive but accomplished women:

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/2015/01/13/blonde-mit-student-story-shows-belittled-female-engineers-are-not-alone/DpNSlyLFRRthsyycZPtljM/story.html

Edited March 28, 2015 by BlueIris

[LookAtThisPOst]

They painted her roommate's apartment together, he would listen to her stories, drop by and offer to take her for lunch. Her roommate was his sister-in-law who had four daughters and my father's brother abandoned the family. So my Dad who was 17 did a bunch of domestic errands, brought groceries etc when he could for his nieces.

 

These days, men doing this would be accused of being "too nice" or being "the nice guy." Which the aformentioned things he did, if he did them in this day, would stand very little chance of winning a woman over.

[Garcon1986]

Fine, so I need to train myself to not be so enamored by beautiful people. Where is the fine line between too much, and showing the correct amount of interest so that they give me a chance?

 

I think you've hit it, folks reject me because I like good looking people too much for my own good. I need to tone it down but not so much as to become disinterested. Bleh its unfair - if a lady looks at a man like that then its all good. The man can start the flirting no problem.

Edited March 29, 2015 by Garcon1986

[GoodOnPaper]

Many physically attractive but accomplished people reject those who place great value on physical appearance or who view them as physically attractive first and foremost. Their ability to detect appearance-focused members of the opposite sex becomes excellent, and they avoid them.

 

example of some common disrespect the looks-obsessed tend to show attractive but accomplished women:

Blonde MIT Student?s Story Shows Belittled Female Engineers Are Not Alone - Massachusetts news - Boston.com

 

As a Ph.D. chemist in academia, I hate seeing stories like this. The only reason this story was written is because the girl is model-gorgeous. The message that gets across is that even we nerds in science engineering have to try and live up to unreasonable looks/charisma standards. Getting away from that kind of thing is a primary reason I went into an academic field in the first place . . .

 

Fine, so I need to train myself to not be so enamored by beautiful people. Where is the fine line between too much, and showing the correct amount of interest so that they give me a chance?

 

Being so depressed about my lack of success in dating, I got to the point of totally distrusting any instinctive reaction I had toward a woman's beauty because I figured I wouldn't stand a chance -- if I felt I was drawn toward her, so would a million other guys. Don't do that -- you will end up settling for someone you aren't fully attracted to. Don't shut yourself down emotionally -- if that means being a little demonstrative toward beautiful women, so be it.