Why is it so hard for men to get off of those meeting sites?

[katiegrl]

But it's your picker that is off. You really were into this guy! In case you forgot:

 

This man had everything on your list of wishes! And again, like every other man you pick, turns out to be a dud.

 

Why do you keep picking duds?

 

Hmmm...Weezy may be on to something there....^^

 

And to Gaeta, I'm confused about something. In the post Weezy quoted above (post no. 300), -- your original post on this thread -- you state "he kept his hands to himself."

 

Wha? Throughout this thread, you mentioned several times how he "didn't" keep his hands to himself (hands up your shirt on first and second date).

 

Not that it matters now (well, maybe it does).. only pointing out how you were idealizing this guy, assigning him all these great attributes (one of which you KNEW was clearly not true even as you wrote it)...which is NOT healthy... it also puts pressure on the guy to live up to such idealization... which trust me he can sense!

 

Something to think about....

[Gaeta]

Some of these men I met I had short term relationships with. So why not concentrate on what made these men want a relationship with me instead. So if I think about it those men that stick around for 3-6 months I did not play silly games of 'keep it G-rated'. I was sexually spontaneous and it stick. Isn't it silly to start playing 'prude' at my age when I have never been prude.

[xxoo]

 

Not that it matters now (well, maybe it does).. only pointing out how you were idealizing this guy, assigning him all these great attributes (one of which you KNEW was clearly not true even as you wrote it)...which is NOT healthy... it also puts pressure on the guy to live up to such idealization... which trust me he can sense!

 

One point was not true (hands to himself), and another was not a great attribute but rather an unrecognized warning sign (talking to his child about you).

 

But the idealization is perfectly natural when we have a crush and are excited about someone. The idealization is exactly why we need to use our heads and give it time before investing emotionally. It's not playing games; it's realizing that your excitement is way ahead of reality, and manually realigning the picture to what is more realistic. Like a rudder and sails, this lends you some control over your dating experience, rather than tossing in the water without control and hoping to reach land.

[katiegrl]

One point was not true (hands to himself), and another was not a great attribute but rather an unrecognized warning sign (talking to his child about you).

 

But the idealization is perfectly natural when we have a crush and are excited about someone. The idealization is exactly why we need to use our heads and give it time before investing emotionally. It's not playing games; it's realizing that your excitement is way ahead of reality, and manually realigning the picture to what is more realistic. Like a rudder and sails, this lends you some control over your dating experience, rather than tossing in the water without control and hoping to reach land.

 

>>The idealization is exactly why we need to use our heads and give it time before investing emotionally....<<

 

Of course...that was (is) precisely my point!

[GemmaUK]

The thing is that when you get older and as a woman I think you get to a point of whether or not to sweat the small stuff as there are many more other things to consider now than there ever used to be.

 

 

Back in December 1991 I met my LT man.

In March 1992 I started dating him and I waited until I was ready to get intimate with him - something which was not the norm back then. I waited a whopping 3 weeks which was considered a long time.

 

 

These days I would never ..or let's say that I haven't yet.. get intimate that soon, it's just a me thing as I want to make sure I know a guy to more of an extent than 3 weeks could offer me. This is my thinking but it is subject to change as each man and dating situation is different.

So, I completely understand Gaeta and her POV that it's not such a big thing anymore. Many guys our age really don't have the double standard way of thinking.

 

 

I know a couple my age who were net friends, both single and she was doing her place up.

He was unemployed at the time, separated, had two daughters 10 and 13 years old, was selling the family home and he was renting a room in a shared house.

He offered to help her with painting, her teen son was away so this guy could sleep in his room while he was there.

On day two things got raunchy, a year later she sold up and they bought a place together and they're now engaged and couldn't be happier.

 

 

Now, within that story I'll point out all the red flags.

He was unemployed.

He was renting a room and didn't have his own place, he wasn't so 'stable'.

(Just those two above and a woman who is stable in work and has her own place (such as Gaeta and myself too) has to consider whether the guy might be a gold digger - male gold diggers are something I have seen laughed off as non-existent on LS time and again. They do exist. I dated one for a short period of time.)

He was separated (had been for 3 years and the divorce was going through but not finalised).

He had younger children than she - hers were late teens and early 20's.

 

 

She invited someone who was actually a total stranger to stay at her place.

She had known him from a small OLD site with a forum which they post posted on - they had been online friends for about 4 months. He didn't ask her out and he didn't 'take her on a date'.

They got intimate from day 2 of his 4 day stay.

 

 

If this story (and it is 100% true) had been mine and I had posted it on here saying that I had invited Mr X to help me come and help paint and stay in my home then I have little doubt that just about everyone would have told me not to go there at all. Not to have a stranger in my house would have likely been the first thing and that if he were interested in me then he should be requesting a date at a mutually agreed public location and that however nice of him it was to offer to help then all he was going to do was want to get in my pants and run.

 

 

I love the story of how they got together (I bet you do too Gaeta! ) and they are such an amazing, lovely couple. They have a beautiful house and she has become great friends with his youngest daughter and is helping him to set boundaries with his eldest who is a troublesome teen. She has also been a great mediator between him and his now ex wife.

He is now stable and working and she found a great job 6 months after she moved. They put equal financial shares into the house purchase and are both named on the deeds.

 

 

When you get a bit older then as well as all of the 'how it should be' there's also the point where you think 'take a risk'.

 

 

Gaeta knows her picker is off to some extent but really honestly at the age she is the majority of those guys she has met are unlikely to have even looked like their photos, she very likely was not attracted to their photos even but she gave the guys a shot and has cast a wide net is all.

 

 

Gaeta, tell me if I am wrong but I suspect that most of the men you have met - you were the one who didn't want a second date weren't you?

 

 

It's not as cut and dried as there being a common denominator in Gaeta but what she is doing is resetting her boundaries and learning. Believe me that acceptable boundaries have changed massively from when we used to date in our youth. The dating pool is also a lot more shallow when it comes to good men and men we're actually attracted to.

[katiegrl]

Gemma....great story and I have a similar one....about one of my sisters.

 

16 years ago (1999) she moved to southern Cali from NewYork, which is where we're from.

 

At the beach one day, she flirted with one of the lifeguards, and they ended up back at her place....

 

One week later, he moved in, and a year after that they got married!

 

15 years and two beautiful kids later, they are one of the happiest couples I know!!

 

Life and relationships are a risk. Some work out forever, some long term, some short term or some never take off at all.

 

Gaeta, out of those 100 guys, some DID lead to relationships. In the end, they just weren't meant to be...and that doesn't mean there is something "wrong" with you OR him.

 

And with this guy, considering how quickly you have moved past this (which I think is awesome BTW)....in retrospect obviously this wasn't meant to be either, despite your early excitement that he might be the one...

 

As my lovely late mom used to say....live and learn! So simple but oh so true.

[Weezy1973]

Gaeta knows her picker is off to some extent but really honestly at the age she is the majority of those guys she has met are unlikely to have even looked like their photos, she very likely was not attracted to their photos even but she gave the guys a shot and has cast a wide net is all.

 

 

Gaeta, tell me if I am wrong but I suspect that most of the men you have met - you were the one who didn't want a second date weren't you?

 

 

It's not as cut and dried as there being a common denominator in Gaeta but what she is doing is resetting her boundaries and learning. Believe me that acceptable boundaries have changed massively from when we used to date in our youth. The dating pool is also a lot more shallow when it comes to good men and men we're actually attracted to.

 

The bolded, I suspect, is the problem that I'm talking about.

 

Gaeta, and others like her, are not attracted to good men (i.e. relationship oriented men). They are attracted to other qualities, and then cross their fingers and hope that they are also relationship oriented. Like anything else in life, this strategy rarely works...

 

The happily married women I know in my life were (and still are) most attracted to qualities that make a man good relationship material - and they all took their eventual marriage relationships quite slowly so they had time to see the core qualities of their potential life partner.

 

My brother-in-law proposed to my sister after they were seeing each other for about a year and a half, and she said "not yet" as they had not had a major conflict to that point and she really wanted to see how they dealt with conflict resolution before making a lifelong commitment. She didn't get caught up in the superficial, romantic stuff. And they are one of the best couples I know.

 

The secret to success in anything is pretty simple. Know what you want, and then do the things that you need to do to get it. If you want a long term, committed relationship, you need to make the necessary changes in your life to get that.

 

Easy to say. Hard to do.

[elaine567]

I think the lifeguard and the unemployed painter story are great and evidence that red flags may not be so red after all.

 

The problem here with Gaeta I see, is paralysis by analysis.

The relationship is analysed to death before it is even a relationship.

 

Had the lifeguard been asked, does he want kids? is he looking for a long term relationship, he might have said "no way", he might have said on his OLD profile "looking for casual".

The unemployed "painter" with two kids may have been rejected out of hand on OLD, as being too much of a risk for a lot of women, but all are now in happy long term relationships, by taking risks.

 

None of those people were analysed by what they said. "Does he really mean that?" or "Did she really say that?" red flag, red flag, red flag...

They met, they fell into bed, fell in love and the rest is history.

[Gaeta]

Gaeta, tell me if I am wrong but I suspect that most of the men you have met - you were the one who didn't want a second date weren't you?

 

Exactly, every man I met wanted a 2nd date, many I was not interested for different reasons. At first many I accepted a 2nd date but for the wrong reasons, I did not know how to manage all that attention.

[GemmaUK]

The bolded, I suspect, is the problem that I'm talking about.

 

Gaeta, and others like her, are not attracted to good men (i.e. relationship oriented men). They are attracted to other qualities, and then cross their fingers and hope that they are also relationship oriented. Like anything else in life, this strategy rarely works...

 

 

So, back to basics here, a man who is interested and who wants to see you three times within a week (the last time being due to him having his daughter for the following 8 days), who is keen, attentive, cheeky and flirtacious. He finds you physically attractive and has a bit of a fumble but stops when requested. He hasn't taken down his OLD profile but can show as online if his OLD app is on his phone and his phone is used.

He lets you know he has told his daughter about you and has suggested they meet sometime but not immediately.

How would Gaeta know at this point in time that he isn't relationship oriented?

 

The happily married women I know in my life were (and still are) most attracted to qualities that make a man good relationship material - and they all took their eventual marriage relationships quite slowly so they had time to see the core qualities of their potential life partner.

 

My brother-in-law proposed to my sister after they were seeing each other for about a year and a half, and she said "not yet" as they had not had a major conflict to that point and she really wanted to see how they dealt with conflict resolution before making a lifelong commitment. She didn't get caught up in the superficial, romantic stuff. And they are one of the best couples I know.

Fair enough, but did he never once do anything that seemed a little off to her? A little too forward? Too slow? Did he go out ever and maybe get a little too drunk? Did he ever drive after having a beer? Did he ever pick his nose or fart in her company? If you listen carefully there will likely be stories of when they first got together or the first few months of dumb things that happened that they tease each other about. Those are the things that make people think 'huh?' when dating - but then later become a sweet or amusing anecdote.

See, there is a thing about taking time and getting to know someone but also the right now issue is how the heck to for sure know what to pinpoint as not being RS material.

 

The secret to success in anything is pretty simple. Know what you want, and then do the things that you need to do to get it. If you want a long term, committed relationship, you need to make the necessary changes in your life to get that.

 

Easy to say. Hard to do.

 

 

I agree with this and this is why Gaeta has stepped up her asking of questions such as in this thread. She is learning all over again and part of that is dealing with mishaps but also knowing what is OK and what is a surefire 'No way Jose'. I think she is also playing things by ear, taking a risk but also that does require some dead set boundaries which don't get shifted. In fact, I'm going to write myself a list of my own so that I can refer back to it next time I date.

There's a weekend project for us both Gaeta! Weed out exactly what our own personal boundaries are - this is something I have never actually done before.

Everyone's list is different because some things are OK for one but not for someone else so it should be personal to you and not reflective of people's thoughts on here. Once your own boundaries are being met then questioning things will only be needed when something new crops up.

[Gaeta]

Gaeta, and others like her, are not attracted to good men (i.e. relationship oriented men). They are attracted to other qualities, and then cross their fingers and hope that they are also relationship oriented. Like anything else in life, this strategy rarely works...

 

I actually am very attracted toward the introvert shy man. Most these men I have preferred so far had long marriages 20+ years and were involved fathers. Not at all the typical alpha male - player- over confident type.

 

My brother-in-law proposed to my sister after they were seeing each other for about a year and a half, and she said "not yet" as they had not had a major conflict to that point and she really wanted to see how they dealt with conflict resolution before making a lifelong commitment. She didn't get caught up in the superficial, romantic stuff. And they are one of the best couples I know.

 

I understand that, I would not move in with a man without a full year maybe more of dating. My problem is not at that point, my problem is getting a relationship off the ground.

[xxoo]

I don't think the lifeguard and painter story tell us much at all. Every successful couple needed to go through the test of TIME to know if they really wanted to be together for real. They are no exception. They were lucky!

 

Be honest with yourself, first and foremost. Don't tell yourself things about a man, or a relationship, that you can not know because it is too soon to know.

[katiegrl]

I think the lifeguard and the unemployed painter story are great and evidence that red flags may not be so red after all.

 

The problem here with Gaeta I see, is paralysis by analysis.

The relationship is analysed to death before it is even a relationship.

 

Had the lifeguard been asked, does he want kids? is he looking for a long term relationship, he might have said "no way", he might have said on his OLD profile "looking for casual".

The unemployed "painter" with two kids may have been rejected out of hand on OLD, as being too much of a risk for a lot of women, but all are now in happy long term relationships, by taking risks.

 

None of those people were analysed by what they said. "Does he really mean that?" or "Did she really say that?" red flag, red flag, red flag...

They met, they fell into bed, fell in love and the rest is history.

 

elaine...your posts lately..not just on this thread...have been totally on point!!

 

^^ +1000!

[GemmaUK]

I think the lifeguard and the unemployed painter story are great and evidence that red flags may not be so red after all.

 

The problem here with Gaeta I see, is paralysis by analysis.

The relationship is analysed to death before it is even a relationship.

 

Paralysis by analysis.

Guess who it was who suggested Gaeta question things more?

 

 

It was me, I suggested it a while back.

I apologise for that to an extent but we probably wouldn't be here and talking like this now had I not - IDK.

I suggested it based on my last dating experience where if I had been on LS and questioned things initially then someone would have told me to get the hell away from the guy.

The last guy was a type of man I had never dealt with before so I was lost, had no clue, felt flattered, should have run for the hills. He was very relationship oriented though (I feel I have to add that - it's true).

 

 

Both myself and Gaeta are career women, perhaps that is a better way to approach - as in get that boundary list down but also remember there is no HR Dept in dating.

It's a heck of a lot easier to fire someone for not doing their job than it is to fire a date and the reason is there is no HR in between, no job description.

We need to get the job description down and once we know that there's much less to quibble over.

Plus, thinking about it, back when I met my LT man in 1991/2..yep. I had a job description for my expectations of a RS and the man in it with me.

[Gaeta]

How about I ask him? Not to get things going again but I could ask him what impression I gave him so I may correct myself for next time. About that?

 

Last night I asked immigration guy what kind of impression I gave him when we met, he only had good things to say, but him and I were intimate on our 3rd date, it had naturally escalated there over 3 dates and I never rejected him with things like 'keep it G-rated'.

 

On the other hand he opened up about how I was during our 3 month relationship and it was an eye opener to me. I was quite shocked and disappointed at myself when he told me he did not feel secure in our relationship, as if I had a foot out the door and ready to drop it all on the first offense.

[elaine567]

I understand that, I would not move in with a man without a full year maybe more of dating. My problem is not at that point, my problem is getting a relationship off the ground.

 

OK, why do they fail, is there a pattern here?

I see your preferences - " Most of these men I have preferred so far had long marriages 20+ years and were involved fathers."

- are you "wife" or "mother" material, do you fit that mould?

 

The old saying is that "If you want to be a millionaire's wife, you have to look like a millionaire's wife".

 

Do you fit the profile of 20+ years wife and mother?

I do not want to insult some of those ladies, but are you more single woman about town, than 20+ years wife and mother?

If you don't look the part, then I guess some will not see you in that role.

[GemmaUK]

How about I ask him? Not to get things going again but I could ask him what impression I gave him so I may correct myself for next time. About that?

 

Last night I asked immigration guy what kind of impression I gave him when we met, he only had good things to say, but him and I were intimate on our 3rd date, it had naturally escalated there over 3 dates and I never rejected him with things like 'keep it G-rated'.

 

On the other hand he opened up about how I was during our 3 month relationship and it was an eye opener to me. I was quite shocked and disappointed at myself when he told me he did not feel secure in our relationship, as if I had a foot out the door and ready to drop it all on the first offense.

 

 

I go for ask him.

You have nothing to lose and honestly for you it's part of a learning curve.

I think I would go for just calling him though..he may not call you back. Plus you will be able to hear his tone of voice and it'll give you more of a sense of what he is saying if he does tell you.

 

 

That's interesting about immigration guy - but you have something to work on with what he said and you can make sure that doesn't happen once you get to RS stage.

It could also be used for the initial dating stages. If a man is appearing really not to know whether you are into him and you are you can let him know you like him.

Something else for both initial stages and in a RS you can use from what immi guy said is not to go quiet and think when you hear a guy say something that you consider a bit off but rather say what you think.

 

 

I know that I would just go quiet with my last ex when all I was thinking was 'Twerp!'. I should have just said it! Lol!

[katiegrl]

How about I ask him? Not to get things going again but I could ask him what impression I gave him so I may correct myself for next time. About that?

 

Last night I asked immigration guy what kind of impression I gave him when we met, he only had good things to say, but him and I were intimate on our 3rd date, it had naturally escalated there over 3 dates and I never rejected him with things like 'keep it G-rated'.

 

On the other hand he opened up about how I was during our 3 month relationship and it was an eye opener to me. I was quite shocked and disappointed at myself when he told me he did not feel secure in our relationship, as if I had a foot out the door and ready to drop it all on the first offense.

 

^^Is that why he ended it? Or did you end it? If you ended it, why? Was he right that you *did* have one foot out the door?

 

It's interesting what people can "sense"about us...without our even realizing it.

 

We think we are doing all the right things..and behaving/responding in all the right ways..... like not calling too much, not chasing, not pushing, keeping expectations under wrap... NOT being too attached the outcome.......

 

BUT if we are, in fact, concerned about where it's going and DO have expectations, men can "sense" that via the "energy" we project! Without our even realizing that.

 

As was the case with the immigration guy Gaeta, as I am sure you had NO idea that was the vibe/energy you were giving off.

[Weezy1973]

OK, why do they fail, is there a pattern here?

I see your preferences - " Most of these men I have preferred so far had long marriages 20+ years and were involved fathers."

- are you "wife" or "mother" material, do you fit that mould?

 

The old saying is that "If you want to be a millionaire's wife, you have to look like a millionaire's wife".

 

Do you fit the profile of 20+ years wife and mother?

I do not want to insult some of those ladies, but are you more single woman about town, than 20+ years wife and mother?

If you don't look the part, then I guess some will not see you in that role.

 

You really need to ask yourself these questions Gaeta. This is exactly what I meant by saying it's possible that you aren't good relationship material. This can manifest itself in a couple ways, one I already mentioned (you're not attracted to relationship type qualities), but the other is that relationship oriented men, after getting to know you a bit, lose interest in you. And this:

 

On the other hand he opened up about how I was during our 3 month relationship and it was an eye opener to me. I was quite shocked and disappointed at myself when he told me he did not feel secure in our relationship, as if I had a foot out the door and ready to drop it all on the first offense.

 

...would suggest that it might be the case. How do you act to make these men feel like you wouldn't make a good longterm partner?

[katiegrl]

You really need to ask yourself these questions Gaeta. This is exactly what I meant by saying it's possible that you aren't good relationship material. This can manifest itself in a couple ways, one I already mentioned (you're not attracted to relationship type qualities), but the other is that relationship oriented men, after getting to know you a bit, lose interest in you. And this:

 

 

 

...would suggest that it might be the case. How do you act to make these men feel like you wouldn't make a good longterm partner?

 

Weezy, IMO as I said, they may feel this way NOT because of how Gaeta is *acting,* it's the *energy* she projects...

 

People underestimate energy and how the energy (positive/negative) impacts how others perceive us...

 

Some people call it a *vibe* they get from someone. Same thing. We are often unaware of it... until someone else points it out to us.

[Gaeta]

OK, why do they fail, is there a pattern here?

I see your preferences - " Most of these men I have preferred so far had long marriages 20+ years and were involved fathers."

- are you "wife" or "mother" material, do you fit that mould?

 

The old saying is that "If you want to be a millionaire's wife, you have to look like a millionaire's wife".

 

Do you fit the profile of 20+ years wife and mother?

I do not want to insult some of those ladies, but are you more single woman about town, than 20+ years wife and mother?

If you don't look the part, then I guess some will not see you in that role.

 

Very interesting.

 

How does a mother-wife material looks like? I had a 15 year marriage and I raised a daughter. Yes I am long term material, and I love children, I am one of the few late 40s women willing to date men with little children.

 

I don't look like a soccer mom if that is what you mean. I work in the corporate world, I take care of myself, I am confident, assertive, I go for sexy-classy look, never trash.

[Gaeta]

^^Is that why he ended it? Or did you end it? If you ended it, why? Was he right that you *did* have one foot out the door?

 

I ended it over a broken phone.

 

I dated him right after my last heartbreak. The man I was dating left me without a word after 6 months of pure bliss (he left the country). I worried sick and finally heard from him after 2 months of waiting - to be told I deserved better than him.

 

I started dating immigration guy and 3 months into our dating his phone broke and I didn't hear from him for 4 days. When he finally called I broke up with him on the spot saying he would not do that to me ever again. I was still raw from previous man abandoning me.

[katiegrl]

I ended it over a broken phone.

 

I dated him right after my last heartbreak. The man I was dating left me without a word after 6 months of pure bliss (he left the country). I worried sick and finally heard from him after 2 months of waiting - to be told I deserved better than him.

 

I started dating immigration guy and 3 months into our dating his phone broke and I didn't hear from him for 4 days. When he finally called I broke up with him on the spot saying he would not do that to me ever again. I was still raw from previous man abandoning me.

 

Gaeta, this might sound hokey but read "Mars and Venus on a Date.". Specifically, Chapter 4: Stage Two: Uncertainty. Pages 46-64.

 

If you don't want to read the rest of the book, that's okay. Just read that one chapter!!!

 

It is extremely enlightening... I was mindblown myself, even though I'm currently in a relationship.

 

In fact, I would encourage everyone to read it! It explains SO much and makes so much sense...please read it!

[Weezy1973]

Very interesting.

 

How does a mother-wife material looks like? I had a 15 year marriage and I raised a daughter. Yes I am long term material, and I love children, I am one of the few late 40s women willing to date men with little children.

 

I don't look like a soccer mom if that is what you mean. I work in the corporate world, I take care of myself, I am confident, assertive, I go for sexy-classy look, never trash.

 

I don't think she actually meant the way you look.

 

She means that if you are relationship oriented, that is what you will exude. People will know it. Men will know it. You will know it. Your actions and behaviour will show it. What you prioritize in your life will show it. The way you date will show it. The men you are attracted to and choose to date will themselves be relationship oriented and they will know that you are also relationship oriented.

 

Everything will line up. At the moment, not everything is lining up. There is a disconnect. General question - why did your marriage end?

[katiegrl]

Yes Weezy I agree, there is a disconnect.

 

Gaeta, think about this >>>. you desire a relationship so badly, while at the same time, you are so terrified of being "played" or used and then abandoned, that you either put up walls that shut the guy out (subconsciously)... or flat out dump him (prematurely)... thus sabotaging any chance of obtaining what it is you actually want! A relationship!

 

I believe I pointed this out pages ago....but it makes even more sense now...after gathering more info.