Is it abuse or not?

[MaybeI'mCrazy]

Much like most people on here I'm confused about my situation. Married for almost 6 years, together about 8. I've been going through individual counseling online and seeing a marriage counselor in person. Two different individual counselors have told me they see "red flags" with my husband or have deemed his actions to be emotionally abusive. I was floored by that term. I have always known him to be somewhat controlling, but never would have used the word abusive. When I have brought it up to my husband, he first becomes very defensive, and last time accused me of the same actions, and then he gets very emotional and cries. I end up feeling so guilty and thinking I must be wrong. It makes me feel crazy. To add to all this I recently had a short lived emotional affair, which he knows about and only adds to my constant feeling of guilt. Here are some descriptions of some of his actions so I can get opinions.

 

-Used to make jokes about my cooking or family, etc. If I brought it up he would seem taken aback that I was upset. Always said he was joking. Is much better about this and overall seems remorseful, although he says now he doesn't remember being that way.

 

-Would make big decisions, like buying a truck, without telling me first. His motto is "it's easier to beg for forgiveness, than to ask for permission."

 

-Has over the course of our relationship bought numerous sex toys that he likes, but I don't, and would insist on me trying certain sexual acts several times even if I expressed a dislike for it. We have also had issues throughout of me feeling guilted into sex to avoid or stop an argument.

 

-Very rarely when we fight he gets angry enough to the point that he will threaten to break stuff. Once he broke a small piece of furniture my mother had given me. Has once hit the wall. Again doesn't happen a lot and is a lot less frequent now that we have our daughter.

 

 

So those that I mentioned above are for the most part past problems. The ones below are more current or recent issues.

 

 

-Once we started dating I never really did activities without him (partly my choice). Since having our daughter he has encouraged me to go out more, but only with certain friends. These nights out or girls lunches happen very rarely. And even then I'm usually made to feel guilty about getting to go out and he doesn't. I often encourage him to go out but he is not as social as me, nor does he have as many friends, so he never plans anything.

 

-A big source of fights lately has to do with our puppy. Says now that he got her in an attempt to fix us. Has always hated her and once in anger kicked her. She is now very fearful and seems depressed. This makes him even more angry with her and has said he "gives up. should have just killed her or given her something to be afraid of." I am actually taking her back to the rescue we got her from because I love her and she deserves better. He now says this can just be "one more thing I hate about him."

 

-After the discovery of the affair we went through a really rough patch with sex. Joked a couple times about forcing me. When I was upset by that he insisted he was joking, and would never do that. I do believe that, but it bothered me a lot.

 

 

There is more but that's probably enough. He is overall caring and calm, and I never worry that he will physically hurt me or our daughter. It is not like he constantly puts me down or yells. He actually tells me a lot how beautiful I am or how great of a mom I am. I don't think he does these things intentionally, and some of the behaviors have improved. I don't know what to think. Is it abusive, or was it? Am I overreacting? Should I just let go of the past? I'm afraid to mention it to the marriage counselor. I can't talk to my husband about it anymore, he thinks I'm just rationalizing my affair.

Edited March 24, 2015 by MaybeI'mCrazy

[elaine567]

Of course it is abuse and please get that poor puppy out of there.

[GemmaUK]

Yes it's 100% abuse.

 

 

Get yourself and that poor little pup out and don't look back.

 

 

This will only get worse, not better.

[Satu]

*I don't think he does these things intentionally' date=' and some of the behaviors have improved. [/quote']

 

*If he isn't doing these things intentionally, who's making him do it? You? The puppy?

 

He's got a lot of problems and should be in therapy.

 

I wouldn't want a child of mine to grow up around his behaviour.

 

He's highly dysfunctional.

[jen1447]

It does sound abusive. I'd listen to your counselors.

 

-Used to make jokes about my cooking or family, etc. If I brought it up he would seem taken aback that I was upset. Always said he was joking. Is much better about this and overall seems remorseful, although he says now he doesn't remember being that way.

Typical passive-aggressive behavior. "You're horrible." "It makes me feel bad when you say that." "Hey relax, why are you overreacting?" e.g it's your fault for being 'sensitive,' not his for being an a-hole.

 

-Would make big decisions, like buying a truck, without telling me first. His motto is "it's easier to beg for forgiveness, than to ask for permission."

 

-Has over the course of our relationship bought numerous sex toys that he likes, but I don't, and would insist on me trying certain sexual acts several times even if I expressed a dislike for it. We have also had issues throughout of me feeling guilted into sex to avoid or stop an argument.

Sounds like he sees himself as the 'decision-maker.'

 

-Once we started dating I never really did activities without him (partly my choice). Since having our daughter he has encouraged me to go out more, but only with certain friends. These nights out or girls lunches happen very rarely. And even then I'm usually made to feel guilty about getting to go out and he doesn't. I often encourage him to go out but he is not as social as me, nor does he have as many friends, so he never plans anything.

Controllers tend to want to authorize who you can associate with, and often slowly whittle away the circle to the point that even family is excluded. That allows them to ....control you more effectively.

 

-A big source of fights lately has to do with our puppy. Says now that he got her in an attempt to fix us. Has always hated her and once in anger kicked her. She is now very fearful and seems depressed. This makes him even more angry with her and has said he "gives up. should have just killed her or given her something to be afraid of." I am actually taking her back to the rescue we got her from because I love her and she deserves better. He now says this can just be "one more thing I hate about him."

Blaming and lack of accountability. His abusing the puppy is really about your hatred of him? Poor guy.

 

-After the discovery of the affair we went through a really rough patch with sex. Joked a couple times about forcing me. When I was upset by that he insisted he was joking, and would never do that. I do believe that, but it bothered me a lot.

That's your intuition talking. It usually tells the truth.

 

There is more but that's probably enough. He is overall caring and calm, and I never worry that he will physically hurt me or our daughter. It is not like he constantly puts me down or yells. He actually tells me a lot how beautiful I am or how great of a mom I am. I don't think he does these things intentionally, and some of the behaviors have improved. I don't know what to think. Is it abusive, or was it? Am I overreacting? Should I just let go of the past? I'm afraid to mention it to the marriage counselor. I can't talk to my husband about it anymore, he thinks I'm just rationalizing my affair.

Like with all things, there are degrees. There are total blazing a-hole controllers, and then there are ones who are maybe not so outwardly bad. But it's a slippery slope, and if you have that controller gene, it seems like there's always a chance it'll fester and get worse. I'd be very careful if I were you hon.

[DatingDirection]

kick you one day. If he's fine with abusing an animal, then he is an abuser for sure. My ex poked fun of me for a lot of stupid things, and now that im not with him anymore, i feel much better about myself, and less scared, i don't have that tiny voice inside my head playing all day long, saying he's an abuser, i need to leave. i left, and im happy. listen to your tiny voice, it never lies. you don't need others to tell you, you already know who he is deep down inside. good luck.

[MaybeI'mCrazy]

Thank you all for the replies so far. I guess it's hard to see for myself even though deep down I know something is not right. Because to me he doesn't fit with what I imagine the typical abuser is like. It is much more subtle than that. When I talk to him I get so confused. He doesn't remember things like I do, downplays them, says I'm guilty of the same or that some of these are normal in relationships. So then I think I must be crazy. It's so exhausting.

[DatingDirection]

Thank you all for the replies so far. I guess it's hard to see for myself even though deep down I know something is not right. Because to me he doesn't fit with what I imagine the typical abuser is like. It is much more subtle than that. When I talk to him I get so confused. He doesn't remember things like I do' date=' downplays them, says I'm guilty of the same or that some of these are normal in relationships. So then I think I must be crazy. It's so exhausting.[/quote']

 

Yes that's also a great master manipulator, he makes you think your crazy. Trust me, my father was like that with me, emotionally abusive, yet im the crazy one. I hate him to this day.

[jen1447]

Check out the concept of gaslighting hon.

 

Gaslighting or gas-lighting[1] is a form of mental abuse in which information is twisted/spun, selectively omitted to favor the abuser, or false information is presented with the intent of making victims doubt their own memory, perception and sanity.[2] Instances may range simply from the denial by an abuser that previous abusive incidents ever occurred, up to the staging of bizarre events by the abuser with the intention of disorienting the victim.

 

Gaslighting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[todreaminblue]

Did you ever go to counselling or marriage therapy after the affair ......he has issues that arent easy to handle...i think you need mediation before walking away.....put down the positives about the marriage in list form and then the negatives......if there are more positives than negatives....work on the relationship.......

 

when you said he gives up with the puppy who is scared of him....ultimately you mean he tries to get the puppy to like him but the puppy is not responding....there is abuse...i am not sure he realizes it is...which is certainly possible...

 

he says dickhead things...most men do......he needs to know when he is being a dick head....try and get counselling if you have any hope at all of saving the relationship...the marriage....you need to make it clear what you will or wont put up with...and he needs to be onboard with saving the relationship...you need to let him know how close it is to you walking away...you have stated he has never hit you...so speak up.....let him know and go from there.......and i wish you well....deb

[spiderowl]

Much like most people on here I'm confused about my situation. Married for almost 6 years, together about 8. I've been going through individual counseling online and seeing a marriage counselor in person. Two different individual counselors have told me they see "red flags" with my husband or have deemed his actions to be emotionally abusive. I was floored by that term. I have always known him to be somewhat controlling, but never would have used the word abusive. When I have brought it up to my husband, he first becomes very defensive, and last time accused me of the same actions, and then he gets very emotional and cries. I end up feeling so guilty and thinking I must be wrong. It makes me feel crazy. To add to all this I recently had a short lived emotional affair, which he knows about and only adds to my constant feeling of guilt. Here are some descriptions of some of his actions so I can get opinions.

 

-Used to make jokes about my cooking or family, etc. If I brought it up he would seem taken aback that I was upset. Always said he was joking. Is much better about this and overall seems remorseful, although he says now he doesn't remember being that way.

 

-Would make big decisions, like buying a truck, without telling me first. His motto is "it's easier to beg for forgiveness, than to ask for permission."

 

-Has over the course of our relationship bought numerous sex toys that he likes, but I don't, and would insist on me trying certain sexual acts several times even if I expressed a dislike for it. We have also had issues throughout of me feeling guilted into sex to avoid or stop an argument.

 

-Very rarely when we fight he gets angry enough to the point that he will threaten to break stuff. Once he broke a small piece of furniture my mother had given me. Has once hit the wall. Again doesn't happen a lot and is a lot less frequent now that we have our daughter.

 

 

So those that I mentioned above are for the most part past problems. The ones below are more current or recent issues.

 

 

-Once we started dating I never really did activities without him (partly my choice). Since having our daughter he has encouraged me to go out more, but only with certain friends. These nights out or girls lunches happen very rarely. And even then I'm usually made to feel guilty about getting to go out and he doesn't. I often encourage him to go out but he is not as social as me, nor does he have as many friends, so he never plans anything.

 

-A big source of fights lately has to do with our puppy. Says now that he got her in an attempt to fix us. Has always hated her and once in anger kicked her. She is now very fearful and seems depressed. This makes him even more angry with her and has said he "gives up. should have just killed her or given her something to be afraid of." I am actually taking her back to the rescue we got her from because I love her and she deserves better. He now says this can just be "one more thing I hate about him."

 

-After the discovery of the affair we went through a really rough patch with sex. Joked a couple times about forcing me. When I was upset by that he insisted he was joking, and would never do that. I do believe that, but it bothered me a lot.

 

 

There is more but that's probably enough. He is overall caring and calm, and I never worry that he will physically hurt me or our daughter. It is not like he constantly puts me down or yells. He actually tells me a lot how beautiful I am or how great of a mom I am. I don't think he does these things intentionally, and some of the behaviors have improved. I don't know what to think. Is it abusive, or was it? Am I overreacting? Should I just let go of the past? I'm afraid to mention it to the marriage counselor. I can't talk to my husband about it anymore, he thinks I'm just rationalizing my affair.

 

He has another side which isn't quite so nice. The fact that it's not there some of the time doesn't mean it's acceptable. It must put subtle pressure on you all the time. But that's just me surmising. The reaction of the puppy is of concern. A creature when kicked once would be upset, hurt and scared, but would probably forget after a while. If the puppy is still scared and seems depressed, that suggest to me that his abuse of the puppy has continued out of sight. I might be wrong on this but pets can be amazingly forgiving if you accidentally hurt them and they don't really know it's accidental at the time.

 

Yes, his behaviour has at times been abusive. I suppose one aspect of this is that at some level you must be aware of an underlying intimidation going on. You seem to feel you can control it most of the time, but partly by giving in too (sexually) so I don't know whether that is controlling it or trying to manage it. I would find his behaviour a real turnoff. I can't stand bullies.

[elaine567]

He has another side which isn't quite so nice. The fact that it's not there some of the time doesn't mean it's acceptable. It must put subtle pressure on you all the time. But that's just me surmising. The reaction of the puppy is of concern. A creature when kicked once would be upset, hurt and scared, but would probably forget after a while. If the puppy is still scared and seems depressed, that suggest to me that his abuse of the puppy has continued out of sight. I might be wrong on this but pets can be amazingly forgiving if you accidentally hurt them and they don't really know it's accidental at the time.

Yes that was my thoughts too, animals tend not to get depressed, and they have short memories or they hide their distress. Depression in dogs often means the animal is physically ill.

The pup may fact be seriously hurt here, and/or is being continually abused, get it to a vet ASAP and then get it away from your husband by rehoming it.

"In harming animals an abuser is showing what he is capable of, the implicit message to the victim is 'this could be you'. " Animal Abuse and Domestic Violence

Please do not let him harm the pup any longer and get yourself out of there too.

[Anela]

We had a rescue dog, who was afraid of loud noises and hair brushes. I think he was hurt with a brush. They most certainly remember things.

[regine_phalange]

1) He's minimising your feelings, and disrespecting your intelligence when he's joking (this is called gaslighting, google the term and see if it fits). This isn't 100% abusive yet, but it could develop into mental abuse very fast. And it shows that he's a passive aggressive coward who will play dumb when confronted.

 

2) He's scared of your activities outside him. If a man expects you to give him your attention 100% of your free time, that's a big red flag of a controlling person.

 

3) I can't believe he's abusing an innocent animal! Shame on him. I agree that the puppy should go.

 

4) Threats of violence are emotional abuse.

 

5) Bottom line is that yes, he has abusive tendencies. People who appear nice and calm and sensitive can be controlling and abusive, in more discreet ways. Maybe he doesn't even know he's being abusive. I would try to call him out on his behaviour and demand honesty. Let him know that I'm aware of his tricks and that they don't work anymore. I'm all about confrontation. If he keeps bull****ting you it's not a good sign for the future.

[Arieswoman]

OP,

This man is an abusive bully.

 

A big source of fights lately has to do with our puppy. Says now that he got her in an attempt to fix us. Has always hated her and once in anger kicked her. She is now very fearful and seems depressed.

 

Please get that poor puppy out of the situation. Do it now.

 

Then get your ducks in a row, take you daughter and leave.

Please leave before you become another statistic. Your husband is dangerous.

 

There is no future here for you, apart from black eyes and broken bones.

 

I'm sorry.

[MoreFire]

Reading this makes me angry ,you should leave him and never look back ,he sounds like a sociopath

[GemmaUK]

I have to agree with Spiderowl in that I also think that the pup has suffered more abuse tan just that one kick.

 

 

If he keeps acting this way with you it's unlikely that he would kick the pup and then for that to be the only action against the pup.

 

 

If you have a Kindle download a book called The Jealousy Game by Mandy White - it's free and short and your man in in there. It'll let you know just how things can progress.

 

 

I dated a man for a few months who was controlling and abusive. The last time I saw him he raised his hand to hit me and I ran.

He, before any of this side of his character had surfaced, had told me that a few years ago he had had an alsation dog from a pup.

He said that one day he got up, put the dog's food down and left for work.

He returned home 10 hours later and the dog was sitting by his food bowl and hadn't touched it's food.

My ex had forgotten to tell the dog it was OK to eat all those hours before.

My ex thought this was great and showed how well trained the dog was.

I, on the other hand and once I had got to know the guy realised that the dog was so terrified of it's owner that he wouldn't dare touch the food and would rather starve.

I'm an animal lover and part of keeping animals is the fun of the fact they have character and are naughty sometimes. I would feel terrible if I ever knew a pet of mine was too scared to eat just because I forgot to say it could.

 

 

 

 

Your man won't change, you are already exhausted with his behaviour, you know something isn't right. Getting out now before your esteem is crushed and broken will be much easier than in a few months time when things will be worse.

 

 

If you do only two things just now read that kindle book (you can download a free kindle app to your pc or phone if you don't have one) and also get your pup to a vet and get him or her checked out - and tell them what happened - they can help you. They could find foster care for the pup whilst you sort out what you are going to do or could help with rehoming.

[MaybeI'mCrazy]

Thanks again for the replies. I am actually taking the puppy back to her foster mom (who had her before us) today. She will get her checked out and knows the situation so that pup can be placed appropriately, with people who will be patient and kind with her. I am glad she is getting out, she is so sweet.

 

Someone asked if we started seeing a marriage counselor after the affair, and yes we have. I haven't yet brought up all my concerns to her. I did mention his anger and a little of the sex stuff but we have barely scratched the surface.

 

I have confronted him about it. After talking with the individual counselors I told him what they told me. That they see some abusive behaviors, or at the very least controlling behaviors. Of course he did not like hearing that. He becomes very emotional and worries about being labeled that way and how it makes him feel. Gets depressive and mopes around and talks about all his fears of me leaving him. Makes me feel extremely guilty whether that is the intention or not. Once he even accused me of being emotionally abusive as well.

 

It's still hard for me to completely wrap my head around all this. I mean if some of the behaviors have improved and it hasn't escalated physically (against me at least) after all these years, maybe he can improve? He swears he can change, that I need to give him that chance. But the fact that he either wants to forget about our conversations to (I assume) avoid guilt, or diminishes my feelings about it, makes me concerned. It seems I reassure him way more after these conversations than he ever does with me. That seems a bit backwards, doesn't it?

[regine_phalange]

I think I understand how you feel. You feel responsible for his emotions and dysfunction. But in reality you aren't. He is. The tears (have you ever heard of crocodile tears?), the fears, everything, they're all about him and his fear of abandonment. It's not about you, your relationship, your little girl, the puppy.

 

Oh, also about confronting him. Maybe it's a good idea not to mention the counselors' observations, but your observations. I'm sorry to say, but you need to be merciless, despite his tears. He seems to bet on your compassionate and malleable nature (forgive me if my judgements are not valid, but from what I perceive from your posts), thus you end up comforting him instead of him having to get out of his comfort zone and change. Somehow his manipulation gets rewarded. This needs to stop.

[GemmaUK]

Good news about the little pup!

 

 

Don't, just don't tell him what the counsellors are telling you about him.

He is using that all as another manipulation tool to guilt trip you and make you feel sorry for ...HIS OWN ACTIONS.

Sorry for the caps but that is what it is.

 

 

 

 

Tell me that you, yourself would 100% buy a new pup and kick it and then wonder why it might be fearful of you and also expect it to like you and want to be with you when you are not treating it like the little bub it is. It's the pup's own fault for staying so if it gets hurt then it's up to the pup.

 

 

If you can tell me/this board that you can do that then yes I believe you should be responsible for his actions and s all of his feelings forsaking yours just like he thinks you should be.

[jen1447]

It's still hard for me to completely wrap my head around all this. I mean if some of the behaviors have improved and it hasn't escalated physically (against me at least) after all these years' date=' maybe he can improve? He swears he can change, that I need to give him that chance. But the fact that he either wants to forget about our conversations to (I assume) avoid guilt, or diminishes my feelings about it, makes me concerned. It seems I reassure him way more after these conversations than he ever does with me. That seems a bit backwards, doesn't it?[/quote']

I'm generally doubtful about the ability of these people to change, because their issues are centered around honesty, both with you and themselves. If it was just something like anger management, maybe that could work with therapy, but if you're not honest about what the issues are to begin with, there's little hope of improvement. And controllers tend to be deeply invested in their con - plenty good reason not to be honest.

 

I think the larger point though is what is there to gain by salvaging a relationship with a marginal person to begin with? To illustrate the point, would it be worthwhile to go to marriage counseling with a murderer in the hope that your relationship could be fixed?

 

At some point, the fundamental nature of a person's identity rules them out for consideration of any significant interaction when it's extremely negative, and controllers/abusers really are deviant, bad people with basically no redeeming characteristics. They're like modern day cavemen essentially - they clubbed you in the head and dragged you back to their cave, and by god you're gonna stay there, whatever it takes.

[MaybeI'mCrazy]

I think I understand how you feel. You feel responsible for his emotions and dysfunction. But in reality you aren't. He is. The tears (have you ever heard of crocodile tears?), the fears, everything, they're all about him and his fear of abandonment. It's not about you, your relationship, your little girl, the puppy.

 

Oh, also about confronting him. Maybe it's a good idea not to mention the counselors' observations, but your observations. I'm sorry to say, but you need to be merciless, despite his tears. He seems to bet on your compassionate and malleable nature (forgive me if my judgements are not valid, but from what I perceive from your posts), thus you end up comforting him instead of him having to get out of his comfort zone and change. Somehow his manipulation gets rewarded. This needs to stop.

 

Yes I feel this is pretty spot. I do take a lot of responsibility for his emotions. I hate the idea of being the cause of any negative feelings in him, sounds silly I know. I have always been agreeable and passive, maybe even passive aggressive to a point. Agreeing with things to keep things happy but not always being ok with what I'm agreeing with. I seem to hold on to a lot of resentment for things, some that happened years ago. So I am certainly not without my own faults.

[GemmaUK]

Yes I feel this is pretty spot. I do take a lot of responsibility for his emotions.

My ex (bear in mind this was only a 7 month RS) would put the responsibility for his happiness onto me so I had no choice but to shoulder it or, incur the wrath/upset when I didn't act in the way he wanted or say what he wanted.

 

 

I hate the idea of being the cause of any negative feelings in him, sounds silly I know. I have always been agreeable and passive, maybe even passive aggressive to a point.

I honestly think that when a person has had enough they are passive aggressive to some extent - they cannot even out the situation (notice I did not say and do not mean win) but there is no happy balance so passive aggressive can become the least confrontational way of attempting to confront. Does that make sense?

 

 

Agreeing with things to keep things happy but not always being ok with what I'm agreeing with. I seem to hold on to a lot of resentment for things, some that happened years ago. So I am certainly not without my own faults.

 

 

I used to be silent and so dumbstruck I had no words to say. I hadn't experienced a man like this before. I was dumbstruck mostly at the things he said that were utterly ridiculous.

The rest I stated my case and agreed on compromise...until two days later when he went OTT on me all over again.

 

 

This place is where I am losing my resentment. It's been too long (2 years almost) and it took me a long time for what happened to even hit me to be honest.

I'm also losing resentment via reading up (massively actually) - though it makes me wonder just how man men and women out there are as mean as this.

I can recommend another 2/3 good books if you are interested one of which explained/s everything my ex did and said. All of it.

 

 

I wouldn't dream of talking to friends about this now as it's way far in the past but I do speak on here and I speak a lot.

Each sentence helps.

 

 

((hugs)) xx

 

 

Edited to add:

MaybeI'mcrazy, your username, you're not crazy, you're just being abused.

Edited March 25, 2015 by GemmaUK

[MaybeI'mCrazy]

Thank you Gemma. And yes I would love to read anything else you can recommend. I'm glad it helps you to deal with your resentment on here. Maybe I will benefit as well.

 

On another note puppy is now in a loving foster home. I'm happy for her but miss her terribly already.