Reckoning

[Grapesofwrath]

I've been the OW for about 5 months now. I am divorced, with young kids. He is married, with kids, too. We met through work (so common...) and there was instant chemistry. I was able to ascertain that he was married, though, and let it go. He pursued me, however, and eventually the affair began. He has been very clear that he is very satisfied with his marriage. that there are " no deficiencies" and that he is not looking for a way out. He has been equally clear that he fell in love with me the moment we met and that he found me irresistible. When I asked why he was starting an affair with me, he said, " I can't help myself." All very romantic, right? And so f@@ked up. With one or two notable exceptions, he does not express guilt about being unfaithful. Rather, he expresses concern for me and not wanting to hurt me or stand in the way of a healthy relationship for me.

 

He lives in another city and comes to town for work a few nights a week. He very quickly began to manipulate his schedule so he could be in town on the nights my children were elsewhere. We would spend those nights together, at my place, doing the things that regular couples do: cooking dinner, drinking wine, talking, making love, sleeping, getting up and going to work. We would see each other 2-3 nights a week. Sometimes we would go out to eat, see music, again..like a regular couple. It became so real to me and felt like I had a boyfriend. We were to the point of saying "I love you" on a frequent basis. I kept on dating other men when he wasn't around on weekends, thinking that would somehow protect me from getting too involved.

 

I got in over my head emotionally, and know I need to end it. He has no desire to leave his marriage, and I'm not so sure I want him to. I don't want happiness at the expense of someone else. His wife is not aware of the affair, but she is beginning to suspect something, he says. He continues to pursue me despite that. I don't think I could ever trust him if we were together in a real way.

 

For the last few days they have been on a family trip, so I've been no contact. It hurts, but I think it's necessary. It feels good in some ways to be free from the confusion of being with someone who says he loves me, yet makes it clear he has no plans for a future together. It's been a good start to ending it. I will also be traveling and that will help keep the NC going. I know he will reach out to me, though, and I need to steel myself for that moment.

 

Can you give me some words of wisdom to strengthen my resolve?

[whichwayisup]

If you really want it over, then end it. You are not obligated to him at all. Affairs can end at any time. Better for you to end it before you two are caught, then there's a pretty good chance his wife will confront you. And, you and him work together so chances are high many at work will find out, your professional reputation is also at risk here.

 

Since you say you could never really trust him if you two ended up together, why continue on? Doesn't it just seem such a waste of your time, energy and love to spend on someone who is already married and not leaving anyway? You deserve a great (single) guy who can see you whenever you want and not have to share.

 

I wish you strength to end it soon.

 

Edited to add: You also don't know if he has another OW since he travels to work...Who knows what he does when back at home.

 

This guy is not sincere, he's skilled liar, a cheater and not trustworthy.

[GoBlue]

I got in over my head emotionally, and know I need to end it. He has no desire to leave his marriage, and I'm not so sure I want him to. I don't want happiness at the expense of someone else. His wife is not aware of the affair, but she is beginning to suspect something, he says. He continues to pursue me despite that. I don't think I could ever trust him if we were together in a real way.

 

I can give you some words of wisdom - read the above paragraph one more time. He doesn't love you because no one falls "in love" the instant they meet. They do fall in lust for sure but love describes commitment and concern for another person in such a way that their needs are more important than your own. There may not be any "deficiencies" in his marriage but there are serious "deficiencies" in his character. I often wonder why the other woman/man would ever think that they could actually trust their cheating partner if they were together in a legitimate relationship. Now your emotions are all involved and it's and easy thing to make excuses on why you let it continue to happen. It is hard work to deny your feelings and body drives in order to do what is actually right. Exposure is one of the surest ways to follow through in order to bring an affair to an end. You don't have to expose him to his family but confiding in a friend, a Pastor, or someone else who loves you enough to speak truth into your life could be very helpful.

 

It seems evident that you don't like being "the other woman" but your choices have brought you here. Everyone likes the thrill of being "pursued" but its those darn consequences that always get in the way! How are you going to feel when (not "if") your children and your family finds out? Again, exposure is the surest and best bet to end a relationship like this. I hope you find a counselor, Pastor, or trusted friend to help you through this. The regret is going to come - the longer you wait to choose to end it the greater the regret is going to be. My thoughts and prayers are with you.

[Grapesofwrath]

Thanks, GoBlue. I did recently tell my brother about the situation because he is a trusted confident and I knew he would shoot me straight. He read me the riot act, which I knew he would and wanted him to do. I needed someone to figuratively shake me out of it. As you phrased it, he is someone who loves me enough to speak truth into my life. I also told my counselor, but she reacted quite differently. She encouraged me to "let the story tell itself" and to view the situation as complicated, etc. Those are the only two people who know, until I found this forum, which has been a real blessing.

 

I guess they are back from their trip, as he reached out to me last night. I didn't respond.

[badpenny]

I think he's a player, and he can't keep it in his pants.

 

I suspect if you cut off all contact, he will chase you for a while, but if you were to communicate that you're totally done with this, and he should find another willing partner - he may pursue you for a while, but it will become half-hearted and eventually, that's exactly what he will eventually do. Find another 'board and lodging'.

 

I'm sad for his wife.

She seems blissfully unaware that she's married to a man to whom fidelity and honesty mean nothing (although he says she's beginning to suspect).

 

He's perfectly happy to lie to her and cheat on her, as if it's perfectly ok to do so.

 

I wonder how he kept a straight face while reciting his vows...?

 

THis man is callous and unfeeling - at least, he's running rings round his wife. who he has no intention of leaving.

 

In your shoes I would be so tempted to tell her.... he's such a cad....

[Grapesofwrath]

I think he's a player, and he can't keep it in his pants.

 

I'm sad for his wife.

She seems blissfully unaware that she's married to a man to whom fidelity and honesty mean nothing (although he says she's beginning to suspect).

 

He's perfectly happy to lie to her and cheat on her, as if it's perfectly ok to do so.

 

I wonder how he kept a straight face while reciting his vows...?

 

This man is callous and unfeeling - at least, he's running rings round his wife. who he has no intention of leaving.

 

In your shoes I would be so tempted to tell her.... he's such a cad....

 

BadPenny: He told me he was unfaithful to her in the early stages of their marriage, before they had children. More than once, he had ONS or similiar "indiscretions," to use his word. He chalks them up to immaturity and difficulty "settling in." Once they had their first child, he stopped...or so he says...until meeting me nearly two decades later. Honestly, can anyone believe that story given all the evidence? Even if it's true, what does this say about him?

 

They are regular church-goers and the image of the family is one of upstanding citizenship, solid morals, pillars of the community, etc. This is one of those situations where I am caught between the idea that the marriage must be dysfunctional if he's cheating, or really just recognizing that he is the dysfunctional wife and the marriage is probably pretty good all things considered.

 

Going no contact helps me see these things so much more clearly: "the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior." Or as the great Maya Angelou says, "When people show you who they are, pay attention and believe them the first time."

[Chasing_mya]

You seem to understand that you have no future with him and have gone NC which is a great path. I'd say keep busy, do the things that you love and enjoy to occupy your time. Block his #, email, and any other means you may have of contact. You don't owe him an explanation either. He's not leaving his marriage & is content with having you as his mistress. You don't want crumbs, you want to mean more to someone and not have to steal time in order to be together. I think its best you did it now before your feelings become more invested in him. I wish you the best!

[GoldieLox]

I think this is the worst example of cake-eating I've ever read on these boards, and I've been reading them for a while. It's only going to get worse for you with time, emotionally. As Mya said, you don't owe him an explanation. You shouldn't even need to give him one... it should be obvious. Let him go and find someone who actually values you wholly.

[Grapesofwrath]

Not that I disagree with you, Goldielox, but can you explain why you think this is the worst example of cake-eating that you've seen?

 

I got another text today that he was calling because he had 30 minutes free to talk and wanted to check in. Wow! 30 WHOLE minutes? Lucky me! What a gift. He has 30 magical minutes available to speak to the woman he "loves." I ignored it. And the voice mail.

[GoldieLox]

Not that I disagree with you, Goldielox, but can you explain why you think this is the worst example of cake-eating that you've seen?

 

I got another text today that he was calling because he had 30 minutes free to talk and wanted to check in. Wow! 30 WHOLE minutes? Lucky me! What a gift. He has 30 magical minutes available to speak to the woman he "loves." I ignored it. And the voice mail.

 

I don't need to. You just answered your own question in your second paragraph. It's often hard to illicit and pick up on tone and attitude through text on a message board, but I picked up on yours quite thoroughly. Re-read your answer and apply it to my comment about cake-eating.

 

He's come right out and said he is perfectly happy in his marriage and will never leave his wife. He has his wife at home, and you when he travels. He has two women who love him, give him sex, and boost his ego. Now at least he hasn't future faked with you, I will at least give him that sliver of credit. He was honest with you from the beginning. The thing is, most, (NOT ALL- but I really don't want to start this argument again) cheaters are in marriages with deficiencies, no matter how big or small. He is a prime example of where there is none, he's just happy as a pig in s&%t in his situation. He has his cake and is happily eating it every weekend too.

[Doublegold]

Grapes you are already so ahead of his game! Good for you. Quit playing. BTW nice tagline Reckoning is a great Radiohead song. I wish you well.

[gettingstronger]

Sadly, there is a term for this "having a roadie" used by road warriors (men that travel) and yes, its a vile and disgusting term and I wanted to throat punch my husband when he said it- I have since heard it more often (guess I am more attune to it now or something) and it always gives me a pitch in my stomach-

 

Stay strong-

 

PS reckonor is the radio head song in case you wanted to look it up.

Edited March 27, 2015 by gettingstronger

[GoBlue]

I am glad to hear that you have confided in your brother and that he "gave you the riot act." I am not surprised by your counselor's reaction. Many of these "behavioral experts" have no real foundation of right and wrong and simply try to help their patients cope even when they (the patient) are dealing with guilt from their choices. I hope you will give permission to your brother to keep you accountable. There will be a moment that comes where you will feel weak and the temptation to respond to this guy's pursuit. Hold strong! If he continues to trample boundaries you could let him know in no uncertain terms that you will have to expose him to his wife. Just remember - love is never self-centered - he has one person whom he cares about above anyone else - HIMSELF.

[Grapesofwrath]

Last night I was talking with the MM. He is the one who says he is very happy in his marriage and has no desire to leave his wife, but also loves me and wants me in his life. I hadn't seen him in a few weeks--we both had trips planned--and after that break and gathering some perspective, I thought it was time to talk to him about changing things between us.

 

I shared with him my concerns about continuing. I focused a lot on the risks of being caught because I thought that would make an impact. I told him what would happen if we were found out: Immediate no contact,;a front row seat to all the pain he has caused his wife, who he claims to love; sharing the details of our relationship as much as his wife wants; minimizing the intimacy, lying about the frequency; losing all credibility and all trust in his relationship. That reconciliation would require him to humble himself, be remorseful, and deal with the fallout of his actions for years. I also asked him to think about how it would feel if his children found out. (they are 19, 17, and 14, so they are old enough to know what an affair is.) I didn't focus on myself in the conversation--meaning how the affair is detrimental for me, too--but rather on him because I thought that would make my arguments more effective.

 

He just looked at me with this bemused look on his face. Heard me out, then told me that he loves me, loves spending time with me, doesn't want to lose me from his life. He asked me if I am still friends with any of my exes. Then he changed the subject to refinishing the Adirondack chairs in my yard...

 

Is he incapable of feeling guilt or empathy? Is he a sociopath?

[carhill]

IMO, not a sociopath but rather a successful man who knows how to handle women. He will bounce his many grandchildren on his knee and smiling pictures will be taken and people will cry tearfully at his funeral because philandering isn't who he is, it's simply something he does.

 

He just looked at me with this bemused look on his face. Heard me out, then told me that he loves me, loves spending time with me, doesn't want to lose me from his life. He asked me if I am still friends with any of my exes. Then he changed the subject to refinishing the Adirondack chairs in my yard...

 

When I watch men I know handle their wives this way, I simply take it in with a bit of awe. The guys are lifers and, yup, it works. The key is both in their charisma and also their social and economic power. The rest is just add-ons.

 

When one sits back and ponders such things, it is the result of viewing the person through the lens of their own attraction. Otherwise, brain time wouldn't be wasted for a second and the person would be erased from existence. Hence, an examination of the lens may be in order.

[Quiet Storm]

There are people who never feel empathy or guilt, but I believe there are many more that do feel it, but have trained their minds to detach or avoid it.

 

When we think of conflict avoiders, we think that they avoid conflict or confrontation with other people, which is true. The thing is, though, they will also avoid conflict with themselves, as well. Unlike sociopaths, they get the little voice inside of themselves that says "this is wrong" or "what I'm doing could hurt my spouse". But they immediately push it out of their minds, because for them, it's a conflict. They avoid thinking about it. It's easy and often automatic for conflict avoiders to do this, because most have been avoiding conflict for their whole lives.

 

While your MM could be a sociopath, I think it's more likely that he is a conflict avoider. He wants to avoid any uncomfortable thoughts, and just doesn't want to think about possible consequences.

[Grapesofwrath]

Quiet Storm: I think you nailed it. He is a conflict avoider. He describes himself as such. And I'm not so awesome with conflict either, which is a recipe for disaster for us.

 

Now that you put it this way, I think you're right. He avoids conflict at home, and therefore thinks everything is awesome there. He avoids it by having an affair, which, if discovered, would bring the ultimate in conflict. That's the irony.

[GoldieLox]

He probably isn't taking you seriously. He's so arrogant that he thinks that if you've really had enough, you'll walk.

[anika99]

He just doesn't get it. He either thinks he will never get caught or he thinks that if he does he will be able to smooth things over and avoid the terrible fall out you described for him. He can't imagine those things happening, it's something he will have to experience before he understands it.

[pteromom]

Last night I was talking with the MM. He is the one who says he is very happy in his marriage and has no desire to leave his wife, but also loves me and wants me in his life. I hadn't seen him in a few weeks--we both had trips planned--and after that break and gathering some perspective, I thought it was time to talk to him about changing things between us.

 

I shared with him my concerns about continuing. I focused a lot on the risks of being caught because I thought that would make an impact. I told him what would happen if we were found out: Immediate no contact,;a front row seat to all the pain he has caused his wife, who he claims to love; sharing the details of our relationship as much as his wife wants; minimizing the intimacy, lying about the frequency; losing all credibility and all trust in his relationship. That reconciliation would require him to humble himself, be remorseful, and deal with the fallout of his actions for years. I also asked him to think about how it would feel if his children found out. (they are 19, 17, and 14, so they are old enough to know what an affair is.) I didn't focus on myself in the conversation--meaning how the affair is detrimental for me, too--but rather on him because I thought that would make my arguments more effective.

 

He just looked at me with this bemused look on his face. Heard me out, then told me that he loves me, loves spending time with me, doesn't want to lose me from his life. He asked me if I am still friends with any of my exes. Then he changed the subject to refinishing the Adirondack chairs in my yard...

 

Is he incapable of feeling guilt or empathy? Is he a sociopath?

 

You are asking the wrong question. Who cares what his diagnosis is. Maybe he is a sociopath. Maybe he is a narcissist who won't entertain your arguments because he feels he is the puppet master and won't get caught, or will be able to manipulate the situation if he is caught. Maybe he is conflict avoidant. Maybe he lives in the moment and doesn't care about what happens tomorrow.

 

But why does his label matter? Let's say yes, he is a sociopath. What did knowing that change?

 

The question you should be asking is this:

 

Why do I feel I must convince him to end it, rather than just ending it myself?

 

If this is bad for you, it is ok to say This is not what I want. I don't want to be someone's Other Woman. I want to be someone's Only Woman. And this man has flat out told me that isn't an option here. So here is not the place for me.

You are strong enough to stand up for what you want, no matter what he thinks about it.

[Grapesofwrath]

Pteromom: Thanks for that cold water. You're right. That is the proper question. I don't know why it's so hard for me to do this. I am here, on this board, to get help figuring that out. I've already seen that I'm not alone.

 

I've already told myself that I'm better off alone than in this situation. I know there is no future here. And the more I spend time with MM, the more I begin to resent him and lose respect for him. Now that it's been several months, I see he is comfortable with the ongoing deception. So he's not someone I would want, under any circumstances.

 

Maybe I'm not miserable enough yet to make the break? How did others arrive at the point where they were ready to cut it and go no contact?

[IfWishesWereHorses]

IMO, not a sociopath but rather a successful man who knows how to handle women. He will bounce his many grandchildren on his knee and smiling pictures will be taken and people will cry tearfully at his funeral because philandering isn't who he is, it's simply something he does.

 

 

 

When I watch men I know handle their wives this way, I simply take it in with a bit of awe. The guys are lifers and, yup, it works. The key is both in their charisma and also their social and economic power. The rest is just add-ons.

 

When one sits back and ponders such things, it is the result of viewing the person through the lens of their own attraction. Otherwise, brain time wouldn't be wasted for a second and the person would be erased from existence. Hence, an examination of the lens may be in order.

 

This quote should be pinned, to be used over and over here as an answer to why. Truth.

[pteromom]

I don't know why it's so hard for me to do this. I am here, on this board, to get help figuring that out. I've already seen that I'm not alone. [/'quote]

 

Maybe reading other stories will help you find your answer. I hope so.

 

But again - do you have to find that answer before you just make a choice to do the right thing, even if the right thing is painful?

 

You may not know WHY it is hard. But you know it is hard. And you already also know this is very bad for you.

 

Maybe I'm not miserable enough yet to make the break? How did others arrive at the point where they were ready to cut it and go no contact?

 

What are you hoping will happen by putting this off?

 

Are you hoping you will say or do some magic thing that will change his mind and make him choose you?

 

Are you hoping that as time goes on, you will come to hate him, and the decision will be easy?

 

Or (and based on your previous post, this may be it)... or you hoping HE will leave so you don't have to take any kind of action?

 

Sometimes in life, you have to make a choice. And sometimes, you have to make a choice without ALL the information. You just have to make the best choice for you based on what you know, and hope for the best.

 

In this case, I think you know enough to make your choice. You can just jump and hope your landing isn't too painful. You will be ok. And you'll go on to find a guy who wants only you.

[Cinnimon]

Grape, look at the position your in. He has told you that he is not going to leave, and that he is happily married (which if true , just makes him a flat out arrogant pig, sorry) so he's not the least bit worried about you, how you feel, what you think. Actually I'd be surprised if you are supposed to think, you are not there as a potential, you are there because he wants you there, to play with but he doesn't need you there. I think the things you talked to him about are your fears and he fears nothing because he is in control. He told you he was married and he told you he is not leaving therefore whatever you do or do not do at this point is on you as far as he is concerned.

You will get to that point of letting go when you really have had enough. He probably leaves you with a big fat smile on his face and you left with tears and a giant hole in every part of yourself.

He's getting everything he wants, he's not going to let you go, you are his toy.

Think about what it is you get from him that you can't get from someone else. We tend to idolize these guys, put them on a throne and bow down to them. Start really taking inventory of what he actually gives you in return for all the heartache and pain you are enduring for and from him.

I feel for you, I am on your side, no cold water in your face, just been where you are at............

[Hope Shimmers]

Grape, look at the position your in. He has told you that he is not going to leave, and that he is happily married (which if true , just makes him a flat out arrogant pig, sorry) so he's not the least bit worried about you, how you feel, what you think. Actually I'd be surprised if you are supposed to think, you are not there as a potential, you are there because he wants you there, to play with but he doesn't need you there. I think the things you talked to him about are your fears and he fears nothing because he is in control. He told you he was married and he told you he is not leaving therefore whatever you do or do not do at this point is on you as far as he is concerned.

You will get to that point of letting go when you really have had enough. He probably leaves you with a big fat smile on his face and you left with tears and a giant hole in every part of yourself.

He's getting everything he wants, he's not going to let you go, you are his toy.

Think about what it is you get from him that you can't get from someone else. We tend to idolize these guys, put them on a throne and bow down to them. Start really taking inventory of what he actually gives you in return for all the heartache and pain you are enduring for and from him.

I feel for you, I am on your side, no cold water in your face, just been where you are at............

 

This really is true.

 

And to expand on it further... the longer this goes on, the more upset and unfulfilled you get, and the more you start to self-doubt. Why am I doing this? Why can't I just stop? Then you start thinking that you must not be worth anything better than this, and the vicious cycle continues until you end up in a soggy, pathetic heap on the floor contemplating suicide because you can't figure out how you got to this place and where you lost yourself. And THAT'S when you stop. Unless you have the strength to not let it get that far.