serial muse Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 Gloria: He will give lip service to the idea that he feels bad for hurting me or bringing a troubling situation into my life. He says he'll end it "out of love" for me, if that's what I want. but he NEVER mentions feeling bad about what he is doing/has done to his wife. I think that's messed up. If anyone deserves his loyalty and responsibility, it's her. I would imagine it's what he told her too, once upon a time - when he stopped being honest with her to keep her, I guess. You're far better out of it! 2 Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 They should have agreed to have a two sided open marriage so she can have other men too instead of her just marrying him to hang onto him and allowing him to continue having others on the side. With that said, at least he was honest with his expectations and desires. I'm glad you realized you deserve better and more. Sorry you're hurting and I hope as time goes on you hurt less and are able to push through and be happy again. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 Gloria: He will give lip service to the idea that he feels bad for hurting me or bringing a troubling situation into my life. He says he'll end it "out of love" for me, if that's what I want. but he NEVER mentions feeling bad about what he is doing/has done to his wife. I think that's messed up. If anyone deserves his loyalty and responsibility, it's her. Because he doesn't feel bad, if anything he'd probably blame her and say "you knew all along I was like this, you chose to marry me anyway...." He may say it to her face just like he told you he felt bad for hurting you. Who knows what lies he's capable of telling and faking. Do they have children? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Grapesofwrath Posted April 10, 2015 Author Share Posted April 10, 2015 WWIU: They have 3, ages 19, 17, and 14. You know, I can totally picture him saying that to her: "you knew all along I was like this. You knew this when you married me, and you married me anyway." He also admits that he doesn't give much thought to what it would be like to get caught or what the repercussions and consequences would be. Only when I spell it out for him does he seem to even think about it deeply. Link to post Share on other sites
imtooconfused Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 Rhetorical question... What does this guy have that women knowingly accept this behavior without question? Answer not required. Link to post Share on other sites
Poppy47 Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 He sounds mentally deranged to me.. Poppy. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 WWIU: They have 3, ages 19, 17, and 14. You know, I can totally picture him saying that to her: "you knew all along I was like this. You knew this when you married me, and you married me anyway." He also admits that he doesn't give much thought to what it would be like to get caught or what the repercussions and consequences would be. Only when I spell it out for him does he seem to even think about it deeply. Spoken like a person who always puts himself first, a person who is a skilled liar and knows how to manipulate and hide things very well. He probably believes he'd never be caught so thinking about it is pointless. Rhetorical question... What does this guy have that women knowingly accept this behavior without question? Answer not required. His persona is probably pretty likeable and he probably comes off as a fantastic guy, everybody likes him and he has charisma. Oh and of course he thinks he has a golden penis! Link to post Share on other sites
Author Grapesofwrath Posted April 11, 2015 Author Share Posted April 11, 2015 WWIU: He does come across as a likable guy, fun, family man, just a general wholesome guy. He has mentioned to me that men sometimes find his arrogant. I didn't understand that before, but it's starting to make sense. I saw my IC this afternoon. She suggested that his tears may have been because no one had ever left him before. It was always him that did the leaving. I don't know that for a fact, but it sounds plausible. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
imtooconfused Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 Oh and of course he thinks he has a golden penis! If he tells a woman, "I'm gonna bang these three other women and that's just the way it is", and the women say "please, please bang me too", it's not just in his mind. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Grapesofwrath Posted April 11, 2015 Author Share Posted April 11, 2015 One other thing I've lately noticed: He often has to comment on good-looking women. Even when we're watching a movie, he has to remark on what a gorgeous body the lead actress has. Or how he saw a really sexy woman at the store, etc. WTF is that? I know men don't stop noticing women when they get into relationships, but does it strike anyone else as immature and crude for him to make those remarks to me? I believe it's designed to make me feel jealous and in competition for someone for his attention. (Big ego stroke for him.) I think a lifetime diet of that would really suck. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Poppy47 Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 You are assuming that I'm not in counseling, which is an incorrect assumption. People assume altogether too much. Poppy 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Grapesofwrath Posted April 12, 2015 Author Share Posted April 12, 2015 I've been all over these boards the last couple days. Gathering strength and working through the feelings. Yesterday, day 1 of NC, was rough. Painful. Bargaining with myself about how to avoid NC. Thinking about him sobbing when I said it was over. This morning I woke up and just thought, "what a selfish *********" and feel like iron. Who cares why he cried. I deserve so much more than this. I was pretty good at getting out there and dating others for the first few months of the affair, to prevent getting too invested emotionally. Then I stopped, the more I got involved emotionally with MM. I was not free to see available men who were pursuing me because I had plans with MM. That ends now. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
jellybean89 Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 Pieces: I think you stumbled across a valuable clue there. Your AP's BS is being abused and manipulated by him as well. He can do anything he wants with her and she'll always be there? What does this say about her boundaries and her self-respect? Manipulative people like this are great at destroying other people's boundaries, and it sounds like he has done so with her to the nth degree. They also prey on people who will question themselves before questioning the abuser. And she asked why her husband hates her? That sounds very much to me like a woman who is being abused and manipulated by her husband. She sticks around for it, for whatever reason. Children? Finances? who knows, and it doesn't matter. He found in her a victim for his abuse, and she has essentially said to him, "I don't feel loved by you. In fact I feel hated by you. But it's okay, I'll stick around for anything." This is a very unhealthy situation, and you would be much better off getting a far distance from it. If your A is discovered, this could become very unstable and unsafe for you. I agree that my AP is not a sociopath. I also agree with your assessment, and I think he's someone who doesn't spend a lot of time on deep introspection. He isn't really interested in looking at himself and figuring out why he's doing what he's doing. When I question him or ask him to examine that, he has no answers other than, "I can't help myself." "I'm in love with you." "You make me happy." "You are a gift to me." In his way, he takes care of me. He's generous. That's what makes the situation confusing. He treats me with kindness, warmth, love, affection and generosity when we're together. Very protective. Always trying to help me out. He removes his wedding ring when he stays with me because he doesn't want the site of it to upset me. We go out with my friends, and they think he's my boyfriend. He says it will end when I find someone who can take care of me better than he can. You ask/question why a BS stays...but that isn't your business. Your business is why do you stay? Why do all the OW stay with a married dude? The BS at least has a marriage, vows, combines income, house, cars, and other material assets...what does the Ow have? And yet she stays and stays and settles for scraps. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
autumnnight Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 Grapes, take care of yourself. Lean on friends. Let yourself grieve. Work with your counselor. You will get through this, and one of these days when you are healthy and stronger and ready, choose a real man who is a one woman man. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
jellybean89 Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 When I re-read this "when he met his wife, he was also dating 4 other women. He didn't want to stop dating any of them, although he knew that he wanted to marry his wife. He told me that he said to her, "this is what I'm doing. This is who I am. Don't try to change me, and I won't try to change you." All during their courtship, their engagement, and into the early years of their marriage, he continued to see these other women and was involved with them sexually. At some point in there, however, he ceased being honest with her about it." Something else suddenly dawned on me... This is very much like what he did with me. Right out of the gate, he put the situation out there: "I'm not going to be monogamous with you. I'm going to keep doing what I want to do. If you're okay with that, then let's move forward. And if you're not, then you can go." This may seem like an "honest" approach to infidelity. No one is being deceived. (Until they are, of course.) But it just comes off as so arrogant. Quite frankly, I don't believe a word out of his mouth. I bet a years salary he never told his wife about the other women he was screwing and I bet she never knew what he was doing. He is a know liar! Dont believe this crap. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Grapesofwrath Posted April 12, 2015 Author Share Posted April 12, 2015 Quite frankly, I don't believe a word out of his mouth. I bet a years salary he never told his wife about the other women he was screwing and I bet she never knew what he was doing. He is a know liar! Dont believe this crap. Jelly: That would be a sucker bet. If I had to guess, he probably eluded to it in some really vague way, and in his mind that was him being super upfront and honest with her. I was thinking last night about the first night we went out together. Details are unimportant, but suffice to say it was a big night for the entire city and we were in a bar, where things were really jumpin.' As we sat there, he told me he was married, talked about his wife, talked about being a man "of faith" and talked about his social group in which they all support each other in being "good husbands." (insert snort of derision here.) Anyway, a little voice inside me said, "Get up and walk out. This is not a good man. He invited you on a date, and is now broadcasting his marriage to you. Get up and walk out." I told myself I didn't want to go home and miss the city-wide party that was about to take place. (I realize now that I had other options than to just go home, though they would have been mainly going to another bar, alone. In the moment, that didn't seem like such an appealing option. Looking back, it would have been brilliant.) I didn't listen to that voice, much to my peril. If I learn nothing else from this experience, let it be that The Voice is my ally and my protector. From now on, what she says goes. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Grapesofwrath Posted April 12, 2015 Author Share Posted April 12, 2015 As part of today's ongoing NC odyssey, I am indulging in revenge fantasies. Primarily consisting of 'outing' him to his BW and watching his perfect life blow up in his face. Ultimately, it's not something I would do, and I fully recognize that I am much better off just walking away without that cataclysm. Just giving myself permission to fantasize about it. Has anyone out there done it? Would you be willing to share the story? Link to post Share on other sites
Popsicle Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 You have a perfect life too, you know? Link to post Share on other sites
GoldieLox Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 I have thought a lot of it before, but it's really not healthy for me so I try to change my thought process once I start thinking about it. I would never obviously do it. I don't want to play a larger part in someone's pain than I already have. I don't want kids potentially growing up without a father because of me. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Grapesofwrath Posted April 12, 2015 Author Share Posted April 12, 2015 I have thought a lot of it before, but it's really not healthy for me so I try to change my thought process once I start thinking about it. I would never obviously do it. I don't want to play a larger part in someone's pain than I already have. I don't want kids potentially growing up without a father because of me. Yes, Goldie. Those are the main reasons not to do it. And let me be clear, I'm not actually going to. It's just a fantasy that I'm allowing to roll around in my head today. It's ugly, I know. And I'm not proud of myself for thinking it. I want to see him suffer somehow, you know? So instead of actually doing anything, I turn to LS.... Link to post Share on other sites
GoldieLox Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 Yes, Goldie. Those are the main reasons not to do it. And let me be clear, I'm not actually going to. It's just a fantasy that I'm allowing to roll around in my head today. It's ugly, I know. And I'm not proud of myself for thinking it. I want to see him suffer somehow, you know? So instead of actually doing anything, I turn to LS.... That's why those thoughts would creep into my head as well. I want him to hurt like I was hurting. Then I start thinking about it and realize no matter what kinds of choices I've made in the past, I'm not that kind of person. So I turn to LS as well 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Grapesofwrath Posted April 12, 2015 Author Share Posted April 12, 2015 That's why those thoughts would creep into my head as well. I want him to hurt like I was hurting. Then I start thinking about it and realize no matter what kinds of choices I've made in the past, I'm not that kind of person. So I turn to LS as well Then hot on the heels of that realization, I come to the conclusion that even if I did stoop that low, he is not going to "suffer" no matter what. If I did something like that, then I'm just the wing-nut, "bunny boiler" that he rejected and so I am taking revenge. He gets to say, "See?! She pursued me! I rejected her advances! She's insane! We're all good, right?" Total rewrite of history, and in the process I lose all my dignity. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
GoldieLox Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 Then hot on the heels of that realization, I come to the conclusion that even if I did stoop that low, he is not going to "suffer" no matter what. If I did something like that, then I'm just the wing-nut, "bunny boiler" that he rejected and so I am taking revenge. He gets to say, "See?! She pursued me! I rejected her advances! She's insane! We're all good, right?" Total rewrite of history, and in the process I lose all my dignity. that's actually a good point. I never thought of that, probably because I don't think I let myself get to that point. It's like I care to a certain extent, but not that much to do that. It's hard to explain. Like it's fun to think about, but when you REALLY think about it, yeah. You're not worth THAT much of my energy. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Grapesofwrath Posted April 13, 2015 Author Share Posted April 13, 2015 Is it wrong that I'm glad I made him cry? Link to post Share on other sites
lookingforclosure Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 I don't think it's wrong for you to feel that way...it's only human. When you've been hurt it's natural to want the person who hurt you to feel some kind of sense of what you are feeling. A friend of mine works with xMM and was having general conversation when he happened to come in. She was talking to her coworker and my name came up. She said he just paused,,and looked at her like his heart dropped. I must admit, it did make me feel a little good. I myself had the "revenge" thoughts...I could've sent his belongings to his house...sent his texts to his wife...I could've , but I am not that person either. Plus my best friend would never let me go down like that, lol It's ok to think about it...and then let it be. And my best friend also said the same thing about him turning that around to benefit him and rewrite everything...so I as well turn to LS instead of looking like a total lunatic lol 1 Link to post Share on other sites
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