Reckoning

[GoldieLox]

 

So here's what I need from the LS community: I need to be reminded of all the reasons why I should get away from this man. Remind me that he is a cake-eater. That I should be angry with him for behaving this way. That I should not envy his wife because she is married to a lying cheater who gets in over his head, emotionally and sexually, and shows no remorse. It will help me get over him.

 

Because he is married. He is a cake eater. You should be angry that he does not value his wife nor you, because all he is doing is hurting two women purely for his own benefits and needs. You can try and have everyone on LS point it out, but in the end, you really need to see it for yourself and find some value in yourself. Until you do that, this isn't going to end. You'll downgrade yourself even further to quickies and trysts, as you put it.

[Grapesofwrath]

I asked for posters to remind me because it will help me get over it. I have to get over it, and I want to get over it. So I made that inquiry to get some support.

Edited July 23, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Babs22]

I asked for posters to remind me because it will help me get over it. I have to get over it, and I want to get over it. So I made that inquiry to get some support.

 

Grapesofwrath, I am sorry you are going through this and are in pain. I am a married OW so I am also familiar with the pain in being with a MM. I know you feel like you are not getting support, believe me I've seen the nasty replies that can fly on this forum, but I think people are just trying to give you some tough love. You wanted to be reminded why to leave your MM, because it looks like he will be less available, so people chimed in. It is very possible MM will work out seeing you enough to keep you engaged in the affair.

 

Artie Lang said its up to you to end it and thinks you will get reeled back in. This is quite possible and you are aware of this or wouldn't be asking us to remind you of all the reasons you need to move on.

 

 

Friskyone said, "You are going to have to do what every other has to do and that is going completely no contact , endure the pain , and drag yourself out of his mess ." This is true. No matter what, when we end it, we are all going to have to go through the pain of withdrawl.

 

And Goldielox gave one of the best responses....

Because he is married. He is a cake eater. You should be angry that he does not value his wife nor you, because all he is doing is hurting two women purely for his own benefits and needs. You can try and have everyone on LS point it out, but in the end, you really need to see it for yourself and find some value in yourself. Until you do that, this isn't going to end. You'll downgrade yourself even further to quickies and trysts, as you put it.

I think only one post didn't cut it as far as posters trying to be helpful. I feel your pain, but it truly will be up to you to decide to end it. Believe me, I get it. My A has lasted 2.5 years. I haven't been strong enough to end it. You may be surprised what you might be willing to settle for, that is a fact. NC hurts, but you can get through it. You built a life with this MM, although a fake life, because he's married and told you he will stay married. At least he was very honest about that, it took me over a year to figure that out. Edited July 23, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Poppy47]

I think yours is a very skilled cake eater.

 

He knows that when the girl moves into the house things will change. I think he has been extra charming and loving so that you will accept a downgrade.

 

xMM would always do that to me... I woke up to that after a while and got very cautious when the love and charm were trotted out.

 

You have a tough time ahead of you. I feel for you.

 

Poppy.

 

ps It's not remotely like having a boyfriend, so forget the nice little routine you have going. He's a MM with another life altogether. You are just PLAYTIME.

[Hope Shimmers]

I asked for posters to remind me because it will help me get over it. I have to get over it, and I want to get over it. So I made that inquiry to get some support.

 

 

As long as I am here, I will give input other than that.

 

Yes, he's a cake-eater, using you, and all of that. And probably loves you. But I am not sure that is what you need right now.

 

I don't honestly feel that he is a cake-eater; I think he is very confused.

 

Sweetie.... it is REALLY hard to let go. But you have to do it, for your own future. I am right there with you.

Edited July 23, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Sub]

I need to be reminded of all the reasons why I should get away from this man.

 

There's a good chance that - even though you don't intend it - you will settle for being "downgraded" for a while. Just to keep him in your life. You already seem to realize he's a lying cheater who has no remorse. People on a message board saying the same things to you....I don't know if that's going to move the needle. Maybe you need to be reminded of all the reasons why you shouldn't be downgraded by ANY man, let alone someone you admit you don't trust.

[Southern Sun]

Hi Grapes -

 

For you, there's been no motiviation to end things because all's been well. At least, it has FELT good. That's kind of how these things go.

 

When the circumstances change and his niece moves into the house, things will probably feel different. He will likely still expect the same "fringe benefits" of the relationship without the same level of investment.

 

Perhaps just take note of how that makes you feel. Notice how his words and actions align (or don't). Really pay attention. You will probably get a lot more words than action. And then you can make decisions based upon that. But try not to let it make you spin and spin and perhaps waste months (and maybe years) unnecessarily. Just be true to you.

 

I can't help remembering one thing you said...something about how he told you about a previous affair and he said, well, I just couldn't pass up that opportunity!

 

Just some things to consider.

 

Hugs to you. It will all be hard.

[norudder]

People do all sorts of things in life. Don't listen to the condemners. Its about what's right for you. Obviously for a time you needed the mm in your life, he was there for a purpose its up to you to figure out what that is and learn. Maybe counselling again if the going gets tough. Some ow are quite content with being 'on the side' it only lowers their "worth" if they see it that way because it doesn't match what their true life and relationship values are. Not everyone values the same things in a relationship. Grapes, do you value honesty? What got you through divorce? It wasnt just getting away from something was it, but moving towards something better. Holding onto something, right? An ideal a hope a core value, something that was true and important to you. Detach what the relationship gave you from the mm himself. You can get the same elsewhere in time if its important to you.I know its a struggle. I've had opportunity and have been tempted to restart with exmm but what keeps me going is holding onto MYSELF and my values/standards for a relationship which he cannot give no matter how special he makes me feel.

[minimariah]

you'll let go when you're ready - as simple as that.

[gettingstronger]

awww... this bums me out! You seemed to be pretty clear with yourself in what you wanted future relationships to look like- going back with him just prolongs the time where you won't have that in your life-

 

You seem a little stuck on the wife, what she has and does not have in terms of a relationship- don't worry yourself with that- remember what it is you said you wanted for you and how this does nothing to help you get there-

[MyNameIsNotSusan]

I read your story and have to wonder how are you not terrified of STD's? (4 women while engaged to be married, wow). Please be careful. Sadly, I think the only reason you are trying to end now is because you know the time with him will be cut short. Be honest with yourself. You can get on with your life and get over him. Take advantage of the low contact and find something else to fill this void in your life. Good luck to you.

[norudder]

I'm a little bummed too. It seemed we had somewhat similar circumstances and you gave great advice and were doing so well with seeing him for who he was. Unless this is a different mm? In which case, oh boy!

Reread the threads where you shared the stupid crap he's said. We'll give a hand to get back on the nc wagon if you want.

[whichwayisup]

It's only ending because of circumstances, his niece moving in with his family. Not because you want it to end. If you truly did, you'd end it and go complete NC. You're taking advantage of the time you have left together.

 

It will hurt and you're gonna be in A LOT of pain, you've let yourself fall back deeply and I can't see this ending emotionally well for you. I hope you can work through the pain and are able to cope with reality of your situation.

 

This guy is so not worth your time, energy and love. He's using you (maybe you're using him too on some level), he's full of lies, deceit and selfishness. He's a walking time bomb of STD's just waiting to explode.

[Grapesofwrath]

Thank you for these thoughtful responses.

 

WWIU, Rudder, Hope, Sun, Sub, Poppy & Goldie: Thank you for the providing the kind of support I really need now. You are right, all of you. I've forgotten, or allowed myself to forget, the clarity that I had achieved in the past.

 

I notice that when we are not in touch with each other -- because of vacations, his health crisis, or other commitments -- this clarity returns. it seems that the more time we spend together, the more I lose my grasp on the reality of the situation. Between all this time together, and then my time with my kids when he isn't around, life has felt quite full. This is all an illusion, of course. Maybe even it's the "fog" that is frequently mentioned here.

 

My goal is to achieve that clarity again, with the knowledge that changing circumstances are going to support me in continuing to move in that direction. The new landscape will eliminate the chance of sliding backwards...because I will allow it to.

 

You are all correct that this relationship is not what I want in my life. It has given me a small taste of what intimacy can be like, and I appreciate that very much as a tool for growth. (After the last few years I've had, I've been terrified of intimacy and have avoided it successfully.)

 

Why he does what he does is no longer my puzzle to solve. I've spent far too many hours trying to figure it out. I've got all the answers I need to move on.

 

One other lesson: It is much easier to give advice to others than to follow our own advice ourselves.

[Grapesofwrath]

People do all sorts of things in life. Don't listen to the condemners. Its about what's right for you. Obviously for a time you needed the mm in your life, he was there for a purpose its up to you to figure out what that is and learn. Maybe counselling again if the going gets tough. Some ow are quite content with being 'on the side' it only lowers their "worth" if they see it that way because it doesn't match what their true life and relationship values are. Not everyone values the same things in a relationship. Grapes, do you value honesty? What got you through divorce? It wasnt just getting away from something was it, but moving towards something better. Holding onto something, right? An ideal a hope a core value, something that was true and important to you. Detach what the relationship gave you from the mm himself. You can get the same elsewhere in time if its important to you.I know its a struggle. I've had opportunity and have been tempted to restart with exmm but what keeps me going is holding onto MYSELF and my values/standards for a relationship which he cannot give no matter how special he makes me feel.

 

Rudder: You are so right on the money here. When I went through divorce, I did have a vision of what I wanted in my life in terms of love and relationship. This isn't it. It did serve a purpose for a time, and all this time together creates an illusion that it is serving more purposes than it is. The changing circumstances will force me to let go of that illusion and return to reality.

 

Values. Honesty. Transparency. Standards. Integrity. I would like to have all of that back in my life.

[cocorico]

Grapes - when you are ready to walk away - really ready - you will find the strength. Right now you are still getting something from the R, something that you miss when you don't have it, something that draws you back. If you can identify what that is, and find it elsewhere, the attraction will lessen.

 

This R might not be the R you want. But in the absence of the R you really do want, you're getting something from it that you'd rather have than not have. Don't beat yourself up over that. It's not a failing, it's about being human in the world.

[Grapesofwrath]

Grapes - when you are ready to walk away - really ready - you will find the strength. Right now you are still getting something from the R, something that you miss when you don't have it, something that draws you back. If you can identify what that is, and find it elsewhere, the attraction will lessen.

 

This R might not be the R you want. But in the absence of the R you really do want, you're getting something from it that you'd rather have than not have. Don't beat yourself up over that. It's not a failing, it's about being human in the world.

 

Thanks, Coco. This is all true, too. It's always bothered me, though, that in order for me to have this "something," I have to take something from someone else. Even if she doesn't know I'm taking it, I'm still taking it. So it will be a relief to not struggle with that anymore.

 

The something is intimacy. Limited intimacy, to be sure, but intimacy just the same. Tenderness. Affection. Closeness.

[Poppy47]

Grapes,

It is all too easy to forget core values and integrity when you are in the heat of the A fog or whatever you like to call it.

 

That's why you need distance... reality gains clarity.

 

I often don't like the reality without the MM . I really loved being with him when I was. It isn't the kind of lifestyle I want in my future, so I let go of him. I miss him terribly.

 

You will too but there are people who understand.

 

Poppy.

[Grapesofwrath]

It's good to be back and be reminded of all this.

 

Yesterday was my birthday. MM gave me wine, chocolate and a love poem that he wrote for me. Cheesy, but cute. Then he went home.

 

When I saw him today, he told me about his upcoming weekend and the things he has planned with his family. I intentionally do not ask him about his family plans because it bothers me to hear it. He knows this, but I think he couldn't resist telling me this because he thought I would be excited for him. Wrong.

 

It all came flooding back. The lousy feeling of being routinely abandoned and put on a shelf. Of listening to his oblivious blathering about the party they went to, the people they saw, the things he did. I am trying to find the word for the feeling I have. It's not embarassment, and it's not shame. Belittlement? Dismissal? Insulted? It makes my face turn hot. I hate this feeling.

[lookingforclosure]

Happy Belated Birthday Grapes

[Sassy Girl]

It's good to be back and be reminded of all this.

 

Yesterday was my birthday. MM gave me wine, chocolate and a love poem that he wrote for me. Cheesy, but cute. Then he went home.

 

When I saw him today, he told me about his upcoming weekend and the things he has planned with his family. I intentionally do not ask him about his family plans because it bothers me to hear it. He knows this, but I think he couldn't resist telling me this because he thought I would be excited for him. Wrong.

 

It all came flooding back. The lousy feeling of being routinely abandoned and put on a shelf. Of listening to his oblivious blathering about the party they went to, the people they saw, the things he did. I am trying to find the word for the feeling I have. It's not embarassment, and it's not shame. Belittlement? Dismissal? Insulted? It makes my face turn hot. I hate this feeling.

 

I think it's reality and you just aren't cut out for an affair. I think I said it before: you're happy in the arrangement as long as he feels like a normal boyfriend and you can 'forget' that he has a wife and another life. Then reality creeps back in and you're reminded that this isn't the kind of relationship you want, and you get all the associated feelings with that. It's denial. And it really is just hurting you more the longer you continue.

[norudder]

It's good to be back and be reminded of all this.

 

Yesterday was my birthday. MM gave me wine, chocolate and a love poem that he wrote for me. Cheesy, but cute. Then he went home.

 

When I saw him today, he told me about his upcoming weekend and the things he has planned with his family. I intentionally do not ask him about his family plans because it bothers me to hear it. He knows this, but I think he couldn't resist telling me this because he thought I would be excited for him. Wrong.

 

It all came flooding back. The lousy feeling of being routinely abandoned and put on a shelf. Of listening to his oblivious blathering about the party they went to, the people they saw, the things he did. I am trying to find the word for the feeling I have. It's not embarassment, and it's not shame. Belittlement? Dismissal? Insulted? It makes my face turn hot. I hate this feeling.

 

Exclusion? Invisibility? If youve been true self with him and expressed these feelings, then IMO if he truly saw you it would be unbearable to him. An honorable man would make plans with you and stand by them or have the decency to leave you be. That's if he normally has that in him and got lost but wanted to do what's right. He doesn't want to do what's right. Sounds like he's oblivious to you and what he's doing to you. He can't see you because he can't see past himself.

[whichwayisup]

It's good to be back and be reminded of all this.

 

Yesterday was my birthday. MM gave me wine, chocolate and a love poem that he wrote for me. Cheesy, but cute. Then he went home.

 

When I saw him today, he told me about his upcoming weekend and the things he has planned with his family. I intentionally do not ask him about his family plans because it bothers me to hear it. He knows this, but I think he couldn't resist telling me this because he thought I would be excited for him. Wrong.

 

It all came flooding back. The lousy feeling of being routinely abandoned and put on a shelf. Of listening to his oblivious blathering about the party they went to, the people they saw, the things he did. I am trying to find the word for the feeling I have. It's not embarassment, and it's not shame. Belittlement? Dismissal? Insulted? It makes my face turn hot. I hate this feeling.

 

He told you all this on your birthday?! Here are some more words. Inconsiderate, self absorbed, rude, disrespectful, cruel and (just my thoughts here) intentional-game play to make you feel a bit jealous. He KNOWS you don't ask about his family life because you don't want to hear it, yet he yammers on and on about it regardless of your feelings. He doesn't 'care' enough.

 

Happy birthday. My wish for you is this ends sooner by YOUR choice, rather than later because of circumstances. Don't be afraid of feeling pain and losing him in your life. That pain will be final and one that is a grieving pain not continuous pain because he makes you feel like crap and makes you cry.

[Grapesofwrath]

He told you all this on your birthday?! Here are some more words. Inconsiderate, self absorbed, rude, disrespectful, cruel and (just my thoughts here) intentional-game play to make you feel a bit jealous. He KNOWS you don't ask about his family life because you don't want to hear it, yet he yammers on and on about it regardless of your feelings. He doesn't 'care' enough.

 

Happy birthday. My wish for you is this ends sooner by YOUR choice, rather than later because of circumstances. Don't be afraid of feeling pain and losing him in your life. That pain will be final and one that is a grieving pain not continuous pain because he makes you feel like crap and makes you cry.

 

WWIU: He told me all this today, and yesterday was my birthday. But either way, I think you're on to something with the intentional game-playing. He knew this would make me envious. Too much personal detail to go into here, but what he's doing this weekend is something he knows I would *love* to do.

 

Thank you for the kind birthday wishes and kinder words.

[cocorico]

It's good to be back and be reminded of all this.

 

Yesterday was my birthday. MM gave me wine, chocolate and a love poem that he wrote for me. Cheesy, but cute. Then he went home.

 

When I saw him today, he told me about his upcoming weekend and the things he has planned with his family. I intentionally do not ask him about his family plans because it bothers me to hear it. He knows this, but I think he couldn't resist telling me this because he thought I would be excited for him. Wrong.

 

It all came flooding back. The lousy feeling of being routinely abandoned and put on a shelf. Of listening to his oblivious blathering about the party they went to, the people they saw, the things he did. I am trying to find the word for the feeling I have. It's not embarassment, and it's not shame. Belittlement? Dismissal? Insulted? It makes my face turn hot. I hate this feeling.

 

Oh Grapes I'm so sorry. I hope you had a good birthday yesterday.

 

This man is either simply insensitive, not stopping to consider the effect of his words on you. Or he is, and he's malicious. Either way, it's really not what you need. You want intimacy, closeness, affection, warmth. That's really hard when there are "no go" areas, when one or both of you have to censor your thoughts, words, behaviours. Especially if there are other times when you do feel that closeness - then this exclusion feels all the more acute.

 

When you miss him, as you will once his niece arrives, remember these occasions. Remember being locked out in the cold after having been invited inside. Remember having, and then it being withdrawn. Let the memories of good times keep you warm, and the memories of the ****ty times keep you focused.