For the separation and divorce folks

[chew123]

Maj Mistep,

 

i have read at least 50 self help books since this whole thing started. lol I am beginning to run out and have reread a few of the better ones. They do help.

 

And thanks but I have no idea how I can be an inspiration to anyone at this point. I really am all over the place.

[kenmore]

Chew, no need to be an inspiration to anyone but yourself. I'd suggest you stop reading the self-help books. People go to those because they assume they need to improve. While that may be true in some peoples cases, most who do know what's wrong. They know where they screwed up and that's most of the battle. If you weren't good enough as you were in the relationship, most likely it wasn't your fault. Most likely it was just compatibility.

 

Misstep, I used to entertain the same thoughts about my STBX. She'd come crawling back and I would have the upper hand. Still waiting LOL!

 

I had the date, and had a great time! She was wonderful, told me several times that she thought I was very good looking and I can't imagine a better conversation. She is very beautiful. She told me how much she respects my decision not to have sex while I'm still married almost as our first words, and shook my hand while telling me how much she respects a man who values marriage and love like that. I'm wondering how often that could have happened to her before, dating a man who does not want into her pants right away. Probably a first!

 

But I left the date feeling several times more confident in myself. I must admit I have been having confidence issues. I never did before, but being rejected by my wife, then starting a new career and struggling can do that to a man. It's refreshing to feel like a man again and not inadequate. To feel like I could do this again. She told me she was nervous about meeting me, I never was. I haven't been nervous about meeting a woman since high school, but they often admit that to me. I felt like I had the entire evening in the palm of my hand! That is a feeling that can only come from meeting a beautiful woman who makes me feel like a man, and it was f*cking awesome!!! That was what has been missing from my life since breaking up. I'll take more of that please!

 

Ken

[Michelle ma Belle]

Hey Michelle! Not sure if you are talking to me or KB, but if me, I entertained that idea for awhile but decided it was a load of crap. (I went on walks and reflected a LOT!)

 

If someone loves someone else, it takes a whole hell of a lot to make it stop! Someone just does not start to "not love" someone they love. At least not in my own brain where love has a certain meaning. Maybe if love has a different meaning or none in someone else's brain it can change, I can't know that. Maybe that's why many of us are here?

 

To me, love is an emotional bond that just gets stronger and stronger with time. The more time you spend with your spouse, the more you love them! That's how it has always been with me and how it will always be. I can imagine it being different with others, especially those who hurt us too much. Maybe those who just don't care (but then I wonder why they would marry in the first place.) I know people can change and their feelings do, but I still say it should take one Hell of a lot to have that happen!

 

I feel like love is the only force strong enough to keep two people together. Why the Hell else would they? Money? Yeah, that's a real touching relationship! Respect? Better but that's part of love, as is sex.

 

I'm not trying to make light of your breakup nor cause a fight, but I simply disagree with you. I still love you though!

 

Ken

 

Hi Ken,

 

I was responding to your original post.

 

I'm not completely disagreeing with you on what love should be but sometimes it's not that black and white.

 

Love is both a noun and a verb.

 

Feeling love for someone and being loving aren't mutually exclusive.

 

If you're talking about the most ideal and perhaps magical and even transformative love of all, it would be when the two collide harmoniously. But how many of people really have that kind of all-inclusive love long term?

 

Most of us have been or are currently in relationships where it's one or the other. This is often where we feel frustrated about something or where we're still waiting for some (if not all) of our needs to be met. You just have to peruse the thousands of threads on here alone to know what I'm talking about.

 

I think the vast majority of break-ups are a result of one person no longer loving the other for whatever reasons. They just stop having feelings of love and stop showing love anymore and want out of the relationship and on the next (usually a result of someone else lurking in the shadows).

 

Having said that, I also see couples who clearly love each other deeply but seem to have different definitions of love which is often the cause of so much frustration. I also see many more who have been in so much denial of what is really happening in their relationships because they were too stubborn, too proud, too busy, too comfortable, etc., to see things slipping away until it's too late.

 

In my marriage, we loved each other (still do) but we didn't know how to communicate effectively to save our marriage and therefore had no idea how to love the other in the ways they needed to be loved. We both had certain expectations of what love should be. Just read the book The Five Love Languages and you'll better understand how couples can love each other but not be able to love each other.

 

It takes more than a feeling of love to complete the circle. It takes action and effort especially in romantic relationships and when that is broken or compromised in some way due to laziness or complacency it weakens the bond. It also takes two people working at it from the same page.

 

Again, my relationship may be an anomaly in that my ex and I talked at great length about what went wrong in our marriage AFTER we decided to end things. We talked about the parts each of us played, what we could have and should have done differently, and we said our apologies. We ended our relationship knowing that we both still loved each other very much but we agreed we needed time and space apart to regroup and get some much needed perspective. And it was painful as hell.

 

I was the leaver in my 20 year relationship. I know for a fact that you can love someone deeply but realize that that that alone can't fix or save your relationship. There comes a point when you're faced with the reality that leaving them is the better option for both of you if only to preserve what you had rather than wait until it goes completely tits up. This is particularly true when children are involved.

 

Anyways, I know what I want to say but I'm not sure it's coming across well on here (putting thoughts and feelings into words is insanely difficult).

 

Again, I think we're sort of in the same ballpark but maybe our individual experiences make us lean more one way than another.

 

It's all good. And I still love you too :bunny:

[kenmore]

Hi Ken,

 

I was responding to your original post.

 

I'm not completely disagreeing with you on what love should be but sometimes it's not that black and white.

 

Love is both a noun and a verb.

 

Feeling love for someone and being loving aren't mutually exclusive.

 

If you're talking about the most ideal and perhaps magical and even transformative love of all, it would be when the two collide harmoniously. But how many of people really have that kind of all-inclusive love long term?

 

Most of us have been or are currently in relationships where it's one or the other. This is often where we feel frustrated about something or where we're still waiting for some (if not all) of our needs to be met. You just have to peruse the thousands of threads on here alone to know what I'm talking about.

 

I think the vast majority of break-ups are a result of one person no longer loving the other for whatever reasons. They just stop having feelings of love and stop showing love anymore and want out of the relationship and on the next (usually a result of someone else lurking in the shadows).

 

Having said that, I also see couples who clearly love each other deeply but seem to have different definitions of love which is often the cause of so much frustration. I also see many more who have been in so much denial of what is really happening in their relationships because they were too stubborn, too proud, too busy, too comfortable, etc., to see things slipping away until it's too late.

 

In my marriage, we loved each other (still do) but we didn't know how to communicate effectively to save our marriage and therefore had no idea how to love the other in the ways they needed to be loved. We both had certain expectations of what love should be. Just read the book The Five Love Languages and you'll better understand how couples can love each other but not be able to love each other.

 

It takes more than a feeling of love to complete the circle. It takes action and effort especially in romantic relationships and when that is broken or compromised in some way due to laziness or complacency it weakens the bond. It also takes two people working at it from the same page.

 

Again, my relationship may be an anomaly in that my ex and I talked at great length about what went wrong in our marriage AFTER we decided to end things. We talked about the parts each of us played, what we could have and should have done differently, and we said our apologies. We ended our relationship knowing that we both still loved each other very much but we agreed we needed time and space apart to regroup and get some much needed perspective. And it was painful as hell.

 

I was the leaver in my 20 year relationship. I know for a fact that you can love someone deeply but realize that that that alone can't fix or save your relationship. There comes a point when you're faced with the reality that leaving them is the better option for both of you if only to preserve what you had rather than wait until it goes completely tits up. This is particularly true when children are involved.

 

Anyways, I know what I want to say but I'm not sure it's coming across well on here (putting thoughts and feelings into words is insanely difficult).

 

Again, I think we're sort of in the same ballpark but maybe our individual experiences make us lean more one way than another.

 

It's all good. And I still love you too :bunny:

 

Yeah, I'm going to have to read that a few more times before I can really get what you're saying , but I definitely respect it. You're right, different perspectives. From mine, as long as we loved each other the way I thought we did, there was no way anything was going to come between us! Obviously we didn't, so it did.

 

I was in an area that I don't frequent today for work, got my lunch, and wanted a place alone to eat and think. I remembered this little park nearby where my wife and I hiked a few years ago, so went there. Memories came back about an argument we had even then while hiking, related to this breakup. So yeah, no question I was in denial. I always thought love would conquer it or things would change, but I am realizing more and more that she was unhappy all along. The only mystery remaining is why the heck did she take so long to end it? Even after we split up, she took four months to actually file.

 

So I concede your point. This is all still a lot of self reflection and learning, though I'm still wondering what the point of that is...

 

Ken