Article: Women must approach men these days because men don't have the balls

[jay1983]

Well god bless her, I will admit, asking out and setting up a date does not irritate me as much as always having to initiate conversation first, or just approach first, break the ice and go over and talk to her first

 

Are you worried about rejection?

[Gloria25]

Well god bless her, I will admit, asking out and setting up a date does not irritate me as much as always having to initiate conversation first, or just approach first, break the ice and go over and talk to her first

 

Agreed...

 

The hardest part for me too is breaking the ice...once I get a positive reaction/response, I can go from there.

 

Eh, but I think over the years my confidence has shaken. Not sure if it's cuz I feel self-conscious about my ambivalence to do what I'm doing (ie trying to hook-up with someone and I know it's wrong vs. "Who gives a f-?"), my getting older, and/or the couple of recent flops I had where I thought dude was attracted/interested, but I was wrong...

 

Eh, but I think it's the guys I've been approaching...Like Michelle was saying in another thread, sometimes you gotta cast a wider net. Or maybe its American men? I don't know...

[toolforgrowth]

I'll definitely agree that breaking the ice is tough. But if you see a person that you want, odds are they're either clueless about how you feel, or they're waiting for you to make your move. I can't tell you how many times I've been shot down. It happens. But that's life. Do you think I'm caring about all the times I've been told no when I get that yes?

 

Nope. I'm too busy being happy.

 

One yes is worth a hundred no's. Are you willing to experience those no's before you get to that yes? I'll tell you right now, it's worth it.

[BronzeAgeJaeger217]

Are you worried about rejection?

Its more like I feel I'm doing all the work when I'm talking to a woman and she often appears unresponsive, I feel like I have to work to extract information out of her, like get her to open up and speak more

[Maleficent]

Its more like I feel I'm doing all the work when I'm talking to a woman and she often appears unresponsive, I feel like I have to work to extract information out of her, like get her to open up and speak more

 

If she is unresponsive she is not interested. Don't try harder, leave!

[ascendotum]

Eh, but I think over the years my confidence has shaken. Not sure if it's cuz I feel self-conscious about my ambivalence to do what I'm doing (ie trying to hook-up with someone and I know it's wrong vs. "Who gives a f-?"), my getting older, and/or the couple of recent flops I had where I thought dude was attracted/interested, but I was wrong...

 

 

Yeh and this happens to guys too. Trouble is for many if they sit back and preserve their feelings & play it nonchalant, nothings going to happen for them, where as for at least most women (up to a certain age) guys will keep coming up to them to chat them up.

 

I have to admit I do like it the way the TFG got his last gf and it has worked that way for me too...where the woman starts a casual conversation and the guy senses a good vibe, likes her and subsequently asks her out. I'm fine if I just get some IOIs to venture forth on, but that's not often the case. I'm sure if I looked at the resumes of the women I work with I would see a bunch of proactive words like, take the initiative, spearheaded, team lead, great at negotiation, launched, consulted with, represented, and so on. I don't see why in the post you go gurl era more women can't step up in dating imitation. Hang out with some decent looking guys, especially where there is booze and you'll see plenty of it, but for the struggling guys here that's not their world.

 

Above a certain threshold in looks the conventional dating rules change and the guy will get unsolicited flirted with a lot. Below a certain threshold in looks/desirability and women wont approach/flirt at all. It not a case of hot sexy girls flirt with hot guys and unsexy not so attractive girls flirt with unsexy not so attractive guys. It just doesn't work that way by an large, and those less attractive guys when they do initiate the conversations/flirting gets lots of knockbacks to boot, some not so subtle/nice. I absolutely got more approaches from women when I was doing really well at the gym compared to when I was skinny even though I spent more time as the later + also when I chatted to a new woman then I was much more likely to get a favorable reception.

Edited May 14, 2015 by ascendotum

[BronzeAgeJaeger217]

If she is unresponsive she is not interested. Don't try harder, leave!

 

well some people argue she could be playing hard to get, she could be "testing" the guy

[toolforgrowth]

well some people argue she could be playing hard to get, she could be "testing" the guy

 

Never play that game. Any woman who acts uninterested but is is just playing a game with you. Imagine what you'd have to put up with in an actual relationship with that person. It'd be hell on earth...in other words, my marriage to my ex wife.

 

I don't tolerate "tests", and neither should you. If a woman doesn't act interested, fine. I'm going to take her actions at face value. If she was actually interested but didn't act on it after I clearly demonstrated my interest, that's on her. I'll focus my attention on a woman who actually reciprocates my advances accordingly.

 

Pretty basic stuff here.

[BronzeAgeJaeger217]

I will admit, sometimes I look at this gender role in a better perspective, point of view, I remember one woman said to me "because we push babies out of our vagina, I think that's a fair trade-off for you guys"

[toolforgrowth]

I will admit, sometimes I look at this gender role in a better perspective, point of view, I remember one woman said to me "because we push babies out of our vagina, I think that's a fair trade-off for you guys"

 

Total bull$h!t and compete manipulation. Most women WANT to have kids. It's a choice they consciously make. They can therefore deal with the consequences of that choice. Don't get me wrong, I'm sympathetic to what they go through during pregnancy and childbirth, but that's just a cop out.

 

You can always say, "Since men spend a higher number of hours EVERY WEEK at work than woman do and die earlier because of it, I'll call it a wash and you can step up to the plate and contribute equally to the dating paradigm."

 

But again, you have to do your 50%.

 

Any woman who brings up childbirth as reason for their entitlement is automatically removed from my potential dating pool material.

[misspond]

This is a really interesting discussion to read. My latest (failed) attempt at getting to know someone came about in an odd way. He was a man my age, a friend of friends, who was throwing me lots of signals - eye contact, a bit of conversation, more goo-goo eyes, touching my arm etc. In the end because he seemed intriguing and interesting but wasn't pursuing me I asked him if he'd like to meet for a drink. We ended up going out on four dates before drawing a line under things because he wasn't, "looking for a relationship", nor it seems looking for "anything" from me.

 

Anyway, I'm not sure I'll ever politely ask another man out for a drink, even though I was pretty chuffed with myself for being brave enough to do so at the time. People are complicated creatures, but I guess things could be simpler if we all stopped over-thinking everything.

[BronzeAgeJaeger217]

Wonder if there are any women here that have good, positive experiences with approaching guys first, like the guy ended up becoming a long-term boyfriend

[Maleficent]

Its more like I feel I'm doing all the work when I'm talking to a woman and she often appears unresponsive, I feel like I have to work to extract information out of her, like get her to open up and speak more

 

well some people argue she could be playing hard to get, she could be "testing" the guy

 

Perhaps. But insisting when a woman is unresponsive puts you in the 'creepy' category most of the time.

 

Why would you want to waste time with someone playing games anyways?

[autumnnight]

Another thing, why is it wrong to be bitter and resentful towards women for expecting men to take the lead, be the dominant one?

 

Be as bitter and resentful all you want. You've got plenty of company. Just know that whiny, resentful, bitter woman hating isn't going to appeal to any woman with taste.

[SSM3]

If I like a girl I always make a move and play my cards. If I get knocked back, at least I tried and I can't have regrets of not making the move.

 

Life is too short

[BronzeAgeJaeger217]

Be as bitter and resentful all you want. You've got plenty of company. Just know that whiny, resentful, bitter woman hating isn't going to appeal to any woman with taste.

 

Ya, oh well, the long and short of it, we are all dealt with a certain set of cards, and this is a card I do NOT like I was dealt with

[ascendotum]

Anyway, I'm not sure I'll ever politely ask another man out for a drink, even though I was pretty chuffed with myself for being brave enough to do so at the time. People are complicated creatures, but I guess things could be simpler if we all stopped over-thinking everything.

 

I don't get it...why not? Its not like you have a history of harsh rejections. This one time you did it and it went well and he happily agreed to go out for drinks with you, and you two went on a few subsequent dates. I am assuming you didn't pay for the all the dates so it just ended up being a bit of time spent in the search for romance. He was good and he was upfront (maybe not straight off but that's expected) on what he wanted in terms of romance. He did start things off by flirting with you, and I am assuming he did not get back decent IOIs from you otherwise I would have expected he take the next step and ask you out. It was good you did, but just because he didn't end up a bf don't assume what you did was bad. If guys thought that too dating would be sooo much harder.

 

There is the risk that a guy will just go with the flow and say yes to the woman when he is not really all that interested in the woman, but if you talk about expectations and don't have easy/no boundaries then less chance of being used for sex...just like it worked out ok for you. Plenty of regular guys/players will hit on a woman they want to bone but have no intention of having a serious relationships with them, so its not like being passive is a sure fire no downsides solution

[autumnnight]

Ya, oh well, the long and short of it, we are all dealt with a certain set of cards, and this is a card I do NOT like I was dealt with

 

Too bad. We all have bad cards in our hand. Unless you can change the cards....you can whine about the card or learn to make the most of it.

[BronzeAgeJaeger217]

Too bad. We all have bad cards in our hand. Unless you can change the cards....you can whine about the card or learn to make the most of it.

ya there times I want to punch some guys lights out for questioning my masculinity, acting like a Marine D.I. in front of me

[toolforgrowth]

ya there times I want to punch some guys lights out for questioning my masculinity, acting like a Marine D.I. in front of me

 

Pay no attention to the jock meat factories. I used to envy them in my youth, but as I've aged I've come to realize that my intelligence is a better asset. I can learn anything and make money doing it. Case in point, I have a great career in IT at 35 with no college degree. Didn't need one. Better earning than learning. Better yet, do both at the same time!

 

I have no student loan debt. I have a house and one credit card with a small balance...that's it. My geekiness literally pays my bills...more than sufficiently. I own my car outright, and it only has 32,000 miles on it. I'm building a pension for retirement, and I'm going to start a 401k very shortly.

 

There was a guy who was a football star at my high school who was a senior when I was a freshman. He worked in the same building as I for a few years. The guy could barely walk because of all the ball he played, he was overweight, and to top it all off he got laid off a few years ago. I honestly felt bad for him...here's me, a skinny little guy, who could literally run laps around him, watching as he got laid off while my career was taking off.

 

Its funny how fate works. I'm healthy and sitting pretty. He's not either of those.

 

Any dude who questions your masculinity is covering up a self perceived deficiency in his own.

[BronzeAgeJaeger217]

Pay no attention to the jock meat factories. I used to envy them in my youth, but as I've aged I've come to realize that my intelligence is a better asset. I can learn anything and make money doing it. Case in point, I have a great career in IT at 35 with no college degree. Didn't need one. Better earning than learning. Better yet, do both at the same time!

 

I have no student loan debt. I have a house and one credit card with a small balance...that's it. My geekiness literally pays my bills...more than sufficiently. I own my car outright, and it only has 32,000 miles on it. I'm building a pension for retirement, and I'm going to start a 401k very shortly.

 

There was a guy who was a football star at my high school who was a senior when I was a freshman. He worked in the same building as I for a few years. The guy could barely walk because of all the ball he played, he was overweight, and to top it all off he got laid off a few years ago. I honestly felt bad for him...here's me, a skinny little guy, who could literally run laps around him, watching as he got laid off while my career was taking off.

 

Its funny how fate works. I'm healthy and sitting pretty. He's not either of those.

 

Any dude who questions your masculinity is covering up a self perceived deficiency in his own.

Life is what you make of it, I know that applies to men more than women

[autumnnight]

ya there times I want to punch some guys lights out for questioning my masculinity, acting like a Marine D.I. in front of me

 

That has nothing to do with what I said. Instead of being bitter at women and punching out men.....work on yourself. YOU are the only one you can change or control.

[autumnnight]

Life is what you make of it, I know that applies to men more than women

 

Actually, no. Shed the giant chip and you'll do a lot better.

[misspond]

It was good you did, but just because he didn't end up a bf don't assume what you did was bad. If guys thought that too dating would be sooo much harder.

 

 

You're right. I think I was just responding to the general theme of the thread which seems to be saying that women shouldn't do the asking, because if a man is interested then he would do so.

 

At the time I thought I was giving him good IOI (even though I'm very out of practice) so I need to make sure in future that I'm less wary of offering up IOI.

[GemmaUK]

Wonder if there are any women here that have good, positive experiences with approaching guys first, like the guy ended up becoming a long-term boyfriend

 

I haven't read the whole thread but yep, I had a good positive experience and we were together for 14 years.