Author tiki Posted April 27, 2005 Author Share Posted April 27, 2005 So how bout them Packers? Link to post Share on other sites
laRubiaBonita Posted April 27, 2005 Share Posted April 27, 2005 Originally posted by tiki So how bout them Packers? oh yeah...........i need to pack my bong! ....... Thanks for the reminder Tik's! Link to post Share on other sites
ConfusedInOC Posted April 27, 2005 Share Posted April 27, 2005 Originally posted by tanbark813 Yeah, and you took it up so you could get laid by the last girl you dated. That's not exactly following in the footsteps of Jesus. Nope, but nice guess! Link to post Share on other sites
ConfusedInOC Posted April 27, 2005 Share Posted April 27, 2005 Originally posted by MySugaree Pocky, to analyze one's belief system, is to kill it--especially when that Belief system is built on the quicksand of revelation, faith, miracle and mystery. For many religious folks, their Belief is a matter of faith, not logic. Empirical proof, scientific debate and analytical methods are enemies of many totalistic Belief systems --whether religious-based or not. That's why in these "God" threads people talk at one another. There's no shared paradigm between the Believers and non-believers to make discussion worthwhile. It works the same for the scientific community as well. They can't prove where the Earth came from with absolute certainty, so science is as much faith based as religion. It's just a matter of what "faith" you choose to believe. To the Believers, people like us, Pocky, are sinful, corrupt and blind to God's grace.. To us--the non-believers --the Believers are self-deluded, irrational and anti-intellectual. I don't think non-believers are that way. I think they err too much on the side of scientific faith, choosing to believe that God could not have created everything and it's all by chance. I'm afraid there's no happy medium--especially on a public message board. I'm with you, girl. That's why religious and political topics are usually banned on most message boards Link to post Share on other sites
Pocky Posted April 27, 2005 Share Posted April 27, 2005 Originally posted by ConfusedInOC It works the same for the scientific community as well. They can't prove where the Earth came from with absolute certainty, so science is as much faith based as religion. It's just a matter of what "faith" you choose to believe. I think you're missing a key term though - theory. In science there are theories and it has nothing to do with faith because there is room for advancement and the ability to redefine a theory. In religion, there is no theory, but absolute and that absolute is supported solely through faith. Link to post Share on other sites
tanbark813 Posted April 27, 2005 Share Posted April 27, 2005 Originally posted by ConfusedInOC Nope, but nice guess! It wasn't a guess, bro. From your first thread ever: Originally posted by ConfusedInOC We keep talking about moving on because the relationship hasn't "taking off" yet due to her being a heavy Christian and me being agnostic. Originally posted by ConfusedInOC That's another thing that bothers me. She says she has "needs" but claims to be a Christian. She says it bugs her that I don't believe in the Christian form of GOD (I believe in the GOD of my understanding, even though many of my beliefs do favor most religions). She says she needs to be with someone who relates to GOD on the same level she does and isn't sure yet that she can do that with me. Originally posted by ConfusedInOC Remember, she won't commit to me yet. Won't call me her boyfriend. Won't say she loves me. She's not even sold on me being the right guy for her due to my difference in opinion in regards to religion. And maybe I am not. Originally posted by ConfusedInOC Well, she dumped me! But not because of what happened, but she used her "golden parachute". "I need to be with someone who loves God as much as I do..." Originally posted by ConfusedInOC I'm agnostic. I believe there is a god, I just am not convinced in the religious views of GOD. I believe in the GOD of my understanding and we have a good relationship. Link to post Share on other sites
UCFKevin Posted April 27, 2005 Share Posted April 27, 2005 Who knows, maybe we're all wrong about God and religion, maybe the Muslims are the right ones. Imagine that? That wouldn't be no big deal, that would be an ouch for everyone else, huh Confused? Link to post Share on other sites
ConfusedInOC Posted April 27, 2005 Share Posted April 27, 2005 Originally posted by tanbark813 It wasn't a guess, bro. From your first thread ever: She influenced me, but the decision was mine compeltely. Again, if I accepted Christ just for her, I wouldn't be sitting here defending my faith. So take what you want from the threads, but my faith is definitely real and I will continue to build on it without her. Link to post Share on other sites
ConfusedInOC Posted April 27, 2005 Share Posted April 27, 2005 Originally posted by UCFKevin Who knows, maybe we're all wrong about God and religion, maybe the Muslims are the right ones. Imagine that? That wouldn't be no big deal, that would be an ouch for everyone else, huh Confused? I'll take my chances with Christianity But I will say, the Jewish, Muslim and Christian faiths have more similarities than differences. Link to post Share on other sites
quankanne Posted April 27, 2005 Share Posted April 27, 2005 To the Believers, people like us, Pocky, are sinful, corrupt and blind to God's grace Really? I always thought y'all just preferred running with scissors, screaming "AAAAAIIIIIIIGGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!" the whole time the sinful thing doesn't float, sugaree, because believers are among that number. corrupt? maybe. But I can show you professed believers (think televangelists) whose photos are in dictionaries as a pictorial reference! as for being blind to God's grace, that's only a call the non-believer can make, because they're the ones in that relationship, us outside believers have nothing to do with it no matter how much we may yammer about it. How you choose to relate to God is uniquely your own ... even if it's to shut him out. Link to post Share on other sites
mental_traveller Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 A lot of people on the thread have mentioned faith. The problem is that faith is completely useless at determining whether something is true or false. The proof of this is that different people have equally strong faith in totally contradictory beliefs. For example, some people have absolute faith that god exists; others have absolute faith that god does not exist. Furthermore, huge numbers of people have had faith in things that have subsequently been proved false e.g. that the world was flat. Therefore relying on faith to form your beliefs is unreliable to say the least. If you can't rely on faith to determine truth, then what can you base any beliefs on? Well, the usual method is to use facts, evidence, testing, logical reasoning, competing explanations etc. You take a supposition, and test it to see if it's true or false, and see to what extent it fits in to prior experience and understanding of how the world works. The more evidence to support a supposition, the more you can test it, the more it fits in with other truths, the more likely it is to be true. In the absence of supporting evidence and successful tests, what you have is basically just a guess, a shot in the dark. So, going by that method, I judge the existence of God based on the evidence to support it, the extent to which we can test God's existence, and so on. So far I haven't seen any evidence to support the existence of God, and it appears impossible to test whether or not he exists. Therefore at the moment I don't believe that God exists, any more than I believe in anything else with no supporting evidence and no way to test it (e.g. the existence of Little Green Men on Alpha Centauri). However, if some good evidence turns up, then I would change my mind. Right now I'd put the probability of God existing very low indeed, but if I saw something like reliable evidence of miracles, or stronger evidence of intelligent design, then I would raise it up accordingly. I think most people have not formed their religious belief in any rational manner. They haven't weighed up the facts and evidence, and then come to their conclusion. Rather they believe because they can't think of another explanation for creation (the same way as people used to believe that fire and wind were gods, because they didn't understand what caused it); because they are adopting the beliefs of society/family (how many religious people have faith different to their parents?); because they want direction in life (something is not true just because believing it makes you happy or gives you purpose in life); because they assume that sacred texts like the Bible must be literally true (why they believe this is never explained), or just because they "feel" that God "must" exist (the same way as people "feel" that astrology works, or "knew" in the past that the earth was flat). There are a tiny handful of religious people who have studied the subject carefully, and genuinely believe that the existence of a creator is the only rational explanation for the universe, but I haven't heard a good explanation from them as to why the universe could not operate entirely naturally, without a creator. At least they are using reasoned argument though, not superstition or other equally discredited approaches. Link to post Share on other sites
mental_traveller Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 Originally posted by Auz Those that want to believe, will find reasons to back their belief. Those who dont want to believe, will find reasons to back their belief. Its why religion is also known as faith. Because those of us who do believe, dont need facts and numbers and science to give us reason - we are confident in our faith and our principles - regardless of religion. What about those who do not mind which side is true, but would like to know anyway? Also, since when has confidence been a reliable indicator of truth? What would be your opinion of a person who was confident in their belief that the earth is flat? Link to post Share on other sites
ConfusedInOC Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 Originally posted by mental_traveller So, going by that method, I judge the existence of God based on the evidence to support it, the extent to which we can test God's existence, and so on. So far I haven't seen any evidence to support the existence of God, and it appears impossible to test whether or not he exists. When you think about the complexity of the human body, it really boggles the mind how it could be by chance and not by the hand of God. My sister said "The first time I held my child in my hands I knew right then and there that only God could have made something so wonderful...." As I said before, the notion that big bang happened all by itself is every bit as much "faith based" as religion. Link to post Share on other sites
MassiveAtom Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 Nope. The existence of beauty (or anything) is not evidence of the existence of a God. There is no causality that inherently supports any such connection. BUT, God does exist in the minds of humans. Link to post Share on other sites
Pocky Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 Originally posted by ConfusedInOC When you think about the complexity of the human body, it really boggles the mind how it could be by chance and not by the hand of God. It wasn't chance. It was years of evolution that screwed up over and over until it finally made something that worked. Link to post Share on other sites
ConfusedInOC Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 Originally posted by Pocky It wasn't chance. It was years of evolution that screwed up over and over until it finally made something that worked. I'll never agree with that, you know. Link to post Share on other sites
StillHurtin Posted May 7, 2005 Share Posted May 7, 2005 I am w/ Moose. I believe in God and I also talk to Him every day also. Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted May 7, 2005 Share Posted May 7, 2005 I really don't think we will see gay marriage be widespread in our lifetimes Not in your country, maybe. It's already being done here. If you really believed in God, you'd be a little too freaked out to say you think the Bible is out of date or there might be other religions that are worth looking into. It's not exclusivism or pompousness, it's just faith. Sorry, but untrue. Nothing about believing in God requires that one take the Bible as a factual historical account. IF anybody would bother themselves to read the tomes written by actual Biblical scholars (not the Fundie ones - but the ones from religions from Judaism to Catholicism), they would find that those scholars who devote big chunks of their lives to studying the Bible in the context of its history agree that much of the Bible is allegory. To the Believers, people like us, Pocky, are sinful, corrupt and blind to God's grace.. To us--the non-believers --the Believers are self-deluded, irrational and anti-intellectual That is such cr@p. Once again with the 'us and them'. The whole world is not white hats and black hats. Most folks wear grey but I guess someone with blinders on may not be able to see that. You are not talking about 'believers'. You are talking about fundamentalists. Look it up. There's a big difference. Link to post Share on other sites
Nicholas Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 You are not talking about 'believers'. You are talking about fundamentalists. Look it up. There's a big difference. Unfortunately, we live in a time and place where the word "believer", "faithful", and even, for the most part, "Christian" are synonyms for fundamentalists. Smart Christians need their own word. Link to post Share on other sites
ziggue Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 I believe in God. I don't go to church every weekend (used to when I was younger) but if something good happens to me that I am really greatful for I will thank him but that's about as religous as I get. . Link to post Share on other sites
Treasa Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 I believe in God, and I think gay marriage should be legal, not that that was the point. Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind. Albert Einstein Link to post Share on other sites
ConfusedInOC Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 Originally posted by Treasa I believe in God, and I think gay marriage should be legal, not that that was the point. This is a contradiction. Link to post Share on other sites
ConfusedInOC Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 Originally posted by Nicholas Unfortunately, we live in a time and place where the word "believer", "faithful", and even, for the most part, "Christian" are synonyms for fundamentalists. Smart Christians need their own word. Fundamentalist infers "fanatic" which is not the case. Not everyone who reads the bible and follows the teachings of Christ is a fundamentalist. Do you even read or follow the bible? I find it odd people call themselves Christians yet they do not follow the teachings of Christ and do not read the bible. That would define someone who follows a false idol -- a "god" they make up that suits their own ideals of what is right and wrong. A god of their own "convenience." The ONLY answer is to be as much like Christ as you can. And you can't do that by making up whatever ideals fit you in regards to God... Link to post Share on other sites
Chris777 Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 "Smart Christians need their own word". I used to think that because of all the negative connotation that is associated with christian, yet We are to be called by no other name Link to post Share on other sites
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