UCFKevin Posted April 26, 2005 Share Posted April 26, 2005 Ah, agree to disagree. If only the rest of the world could do that. But yeah. Neither of us are right or wrong, it's all belief. Nothing's proven until we die. Link to post Share on other sites
Naive Posted April 26, 2005 Share Posted April 26, 2005 Originally posted by UCFKevin Ah, agree to disagree. If only the rest of the world could do that. But yeah. Neither of us are right or wrong, it's all belief. Nothing's proven until we die. Exactly!!! Link to post Share on other sites
tanbark813 Posted April 26, 2005 Share Posted April 26, 2005 Now let's all hold hands and sing about pink fuzzy bunnies and ice cream. Link to post Share on other sites
ConfusedInOC Posted April 26, 2005 Share Posted April 26, 2005 Originally posted by UCFKevin Ah, agree to disagree. If only the rest of the world could do that. As a Christian, I want to lead by example by proving to you that not all religious people are over-zealous. I'm not a fundamentalist. But yeah. Neither of us are right or wrong, it's all belief. Nothing's proven until we die. True, that is why I said if I am right and you are wrong, oooch But if you're right and I am wrong, no biggie. I'll just be fertilizer Good chatting with you. Link to post Share on other sites
ConfusedInOC Posted April 26, 2005 Share Posted April 26, 2005 Originally posted by tanbark813 Now let's all hold hands and sing about pink fuzzy bunnies and ice cream. No no. Kumbaya! Link to post Share on other sites
Naive Posted April 26, 2005 Share Posted April 26, 2005 Originally posted by ConfusedInOC As a Christian, I want to lead by example by proving to you that not all religious people are over-zealous. I'm not a fundamentalist. True, that is why I said if I am right and you are wrong, oooch But if you're right and I am wrong, no biggie. I'll just be fertilizer Good chatting with you. I think both of them are a BIG ouch!!! The ones that believe in the bible because if it's not true they have the biggest letdown and they will never see the future that has been promised to them. The ones that do not belive the bible because they will see the future that has been told to them. Again, none of us are right or wrong. Link to post Share on other sites
ConfusedInOC Posted April 26, 2005 Share Posted April 26, 2005 Originally posted by ~Naive~ I think both of them are a BIG ouch!!! The ones that believe in the bible because if it's not true they have the biggest letdown and they will never see the future that has been promised to them. The ones that do not belive the bible because they will see the future that has been told to them. Again, none of us are right or wrong. Yeah but if there is no thereafter, I won't know about it Link to post Share on other sites
westernxer Posted April 27, 2005 Share Posted April 27, 2005 Matter is neither created nor destroyed, but changed. That, to me, is everlasting life. Link to post Share on other sites
UCFKevin Posted April 27, 2005 Share Posted April 27, 2005 For the record, I think you may have missed this, Confused, I believe in God and Heaven. Link to post Share on other sites
Israfil Posted April 27, 2005 Share Posted April 27, 2005 so this thread totally derailed! C'mon guys - back to Tiki's original question! Link to post Share on other sites
XNemesisX Posted April 27, 2005 Share Posted April 27, 2005 ConfusedinOC I will have to say that I disagree with you on some things. Again, if you're right and I am wrong, no big deal. But if I am right and you are wrong, that's a BIG deal. I think I talked about this more in depth in my thread on Freud and religious belief. Not to sound redundant, but some say that there is a lot to lose on believing in something that is ultimately false. Also, what if God doesn't like gamblers? What if he actually punishes those who believe in him for purely selfish reasons and for what they have to gain from it? I'm about half asleep right now so I'm a bit cognitively impaired right now to say all that I would like to right now. If you haven't seen my post on Freud and Religious belief, then check it out. I would like to hear what you think about what I wrote. (Also I don't want to hijack Tiki's thread ) http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t60400/ Link to post Share on other sites
Auz Posted April 27, 2005 Share Posted April 27, 2005 Originally posted by UCFKevin So therefore, you do not believe in Evolution or the big bang or cavemen or dinosaurs then, right? My argument is: Why cant the christian theory of creativity be a simplified version of evolution? The Big Bang occured when God created the universe. Sure the bible says it was instantaneous, but that could have just been a simplification for those simple minded people alive 2000+ years ago who probably couldnt fathom what an eon was, let alone what the cosmos or solar systems are- they had difficulty enough with knowing what was over the next set of mountain ranges:P Im quite willing to believe that God's snap of a finger lasted a few million years... Same with the 7 days of creation - each of those 7 days could have been a few million years each. But try being a poor sheep herder and comprehending how much a million is:) - so much easier to say a day, becausethe point of that passage is not to say how long it took to create the universe - but that it was God who did it. The Old Testament, to me, sometimes isnt meant to be taken literally word-for-word, its the message that is being portrayed that makes it important. The Devil may not have appeared as a talking snake, he may have appeared as thoughts in Adam and Eve's heads - but to simplify the message that the passage needs to pass on, it would have been easier to have him represented as a snake - something 'evil' that people will recognise. Auz Link to post Share on other sites
XNemesisX Posted April 27, 2005 Share Posted April 27, 2005 I really don't believe for a second there was ever some forbidden fruit. C'mon people! Anyone who believes that Adam and Eve story needs their head examined! Kudos to you Auz for not taking the bible literal word for word. Nothing screams of dumb more than Christians who actually believe those ridiculous myths. Link to post Share on other sites
westernxer Posted April 27, 2005 Share Posted April 27, 2005 Originally posted by Israfil so this thread totally derailed! C'mon guys - back to Tiki's original question! What's Tiki's original question? Link to post Share on other sites
UCFKevin Posted April 27, 2005 Share Posted April 27, 2005 Well...I dunno about being that harsh on people who believe in Adam and Eve, but yeah...it's a pretty ridiculous story and if someone believes it word for word to have really happened....I dunno... But you bring up an interesting point, Nemesis. It's almost like people, some people, believe in God for fear of being wrong and going to Hell instead of knowing in their hearts that what they believe is right and true with only the best of intentions, not just to get into Heaven, y'know? Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted April 27, 2005 Share Posted April 27, 2005 Nothing screams of dumb more than Christians who actually believe those ridiculous myths. Nothin says lovin' like atheism. As for I don't even care about homosexuals getting married. I am more concerned with them being able to adopt and raise kids...*shudder* Try growing up without a father. Instant outcast. It's just further accented when you only have one parent.... Or both are the same sex! As has been pointed out, you get ridiculed for everything when you're a kid. And you know what? If you, today, stood up FOR these adoptions rather than futhering the hatred, you yourself could change the futures of those kids. No. I'd rather the child have a loving, normal Male/Female household for them to grow up in. Oh right. Because that's the norm. Guess what? Not gonna happen. EVER. So then what you do is improve on what there is - you make a world where people aren't discriminated against for what they do in private. I believe the bible. Then you better never eat another shrimp. Or pork. In fact, there's a ton of things you have to stop doing immediately and another ton you must begin to do immediately else your claim to 'believe the bible' is a crock. The same part of the Bible you think condemns gays also condemns disobedient children and adulterers to death by stoning. Got a nice supply of rocks in store? Here's Dyer's brilliant summary of the things you need to abhor if you, as you claim, 'live by the Bible' http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?postid=198822#post198822 Link to post Share on other sites
UCFKevin Posted April 27, 2005 Share Posted April 27, 2005 Isn't slavery cool in there, too? Link to post Share on other sites
XNemesisX Posted April 27, 2005 Share Posted April 27, 2005 Excellent post Moi! Well I'm really not an atheist, actually. And maybe I was a bit too harsh in that statement I made. I actually like to consider myself agnostic/deist. More leaning toward deist. Like I have said before, I don't believe in a personal God, but that does not necessarily mean that I don't believe in a God. (an IMpersonal one, that is). UCFKevin~ It's almost like people, some people, believe in God for fear of being wrong and going to Hell instead of knowing in their hearts that what they believe is right and true with only the best of intentions, not just to get into Heaven, y'know? Yep, EXACTLY! Link to post Share on other sites
westernxer Posted April 27, 2005 Share Posted April 27, 2005 Originally posted by UCFKevin Isn't slavery cool in there, too? Yep, alongside polygamy, incest, and "pulling out," also known as Onanism. Link to post Share on other sites
XNemesisX Posted April 27, 2005 Share Posted April 27, 2005 Also I would like to add that if you take the bible literally then you also believe that you are already damned to hell, Confused. (not saying that you take the bible completely literally, but just thought I would throw this in). "A person begotten out of wedlock shall not enter into the assembly of the Lord; even until his tenth generation shall his descendants not enter into the congregation of the Lord" (Deut. 23:2). Now SURELY no one could possibly believe this. I know it is from the Old Testament which lots of Christians say shouldn't be followed anymore because it was before Christ- but wouldn't this also discount the Adam and Eve story and other stories from the old testament? Link to post Share on other sites
XNemesisX Posted April 27, 2005 Share Posted April 27, 2005 Funny how many religious folk tend to pick and choose what they want to believe and follow from the bible.... Link to post Share on other sites
westernxer Posted April 27, 2005 Share Posted April 27, 2005 Lots of genocide, too. Link to post Share on other sites
Craig Posted April 27, 2005 Share Posted April 27, 2005 If you liked Dyermakers post check out Landoverbaptist dot org and their rather unique thoughts on god and the bible. Link to post Share on other sites
westernxer Posted April 27, 2005 Share Posted April 27, 2005 I love the Bible, mostly for its prose. But the Eleventh Commandment says, "Thou shalt not read the Bible for its prose." Link to post Share on other sites
quankanne Posted April 27, 2005 Share Posted April 27, 2005 "A person begotten out of wedlock shall not enter into the assembly of the Lord; even until his tenth generation shall his descendants not enter into the congregation of the Lord" (Deut. 23:2). sounds more like an exercise for being scared straight, rather than actual condemnation. but again, my viewpoint is based on my belief in the New Testament promise, that God is a forgiving God ... wouldn't this also discount the Adam and Eve story and other stories from the old testament? not really, if you look at Adam and Eve's story as an allegory or as a morality play: Their action (disobeying God) far outweighs whether they really saw a snake or ate a piece of fruit known as an apple. You've got to look into the meaning of the tale, dig into the symbolism of it to comprehend it more fully. Link to post Share on other sites
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