Do you believe in God?

[Nicholas]

Originally posted by ConfusedInOC

This is a contradiction.

For millions of believers, it is not a contradiction to believe in gay marriage.

 

You have no place deciding, among those who hold a belief in God, who deserves to be considered a believer.

Plenty of people have studied more scripture than you (example : me) and come to a conclusion that gay marriage is not contradictory to a belief in God.

 

In addition, plenty of organized religions believe in universal marriage rights.

Originally posted by ConfusedInOC

Fundamentalist infers (sic) "fanatic" which is not the case.

If you think they're fanatics, that's fine. I wouldn't glorify them with such a word.

Not everyone who reads the bible and follows the teachings of Christ is a fundamentalist.

There are plenty of people who have gone through the trouble of defining fundamentalism. It involves literalism, a rejection of secularism, an intolerance for other beliefs---there are more tenets, but I can't seem to find a way to phrase them without ridiculing them. I suggest a google search.

Do you even read or follow the bible? I find it odd people call themselves Christians yet they do not follow the teachings of Christ and do not read the bible.

Answer: Yes.

 

Question: Have you read it in any other language besides English?

The ONLY answer is to be as much like Christ as you can.

Might I say what a sparkling example you are!

Originally posted by Chris777

I used to think that because of all the negative connotation that is associated with christian, yet

We are to be called by no other name

I know. It's just dissapointing when I tell people I'm a Christian and they assume I'm also a dumbass.

[moimeme]

Do you even read or follow the bible? I find it odd people call themselves Christians yet they do not follow the teachings of Christ and do not read the bible

 

I find it odd that brand-new 'Christians' who admit to not knowing much about Biblical scholarship presume to be able to judge all others' actions. However, doubtless, like the brand-new non-smoker, eventually the excessive zealotry will wear off. At least one certainly hopes so.

[bluetuesday]

Originally posted by ConfusedInOC

Do you even read or follow the bible? I find it odd people call themselves Christians yet they do not follow the teachings of Christ and do not read the bible.

 

That would define someone who follows a false idol -- a "god" they make up that suits their own ideals of what is right and wrong. A god of their own "convenience."

 

here's a thought.

 

the bible, however divinely inspired it may or may not be, is a man made object.

 

blind or excessive devotion to a man made object is biblically condemned as idolatry.

 

therefore fundamental adherence to the written biblical word is not only idolatry, it's utterly contradictory.

[Pocky]

[ConfusedInOC]

Originally posted by moimeme

I find it odd that brand-new 'Christians' who admit to not knowing much about Biblical scholarship presume to be able to judge all others' actions. However, doubtless, like the brand-new non-smoker, eventually the excessive zealotry will wear off. At least one certainly hopes so.

 

It's not a bad thing to be a new Christian. While admittedly I am not the expert, the way to become and stay a Christian is still fresh in my mind. Commenting on what makes a true Christian is not being judgemental, it's merely a fact.

 

I certainly hope my enthusiasm for Christ does not wear off anytime soon.

[ConfusedInOC]

Originally posted by bluetuesday

here's a thought.

 

the bible, however divinely inspired it may or may not be, is a man made object.

 

blind or excessive devotion to a man made object is biblically condemned as idolatry.

 

therefore fundamental adherence to the written biblical word is not only idolatry, it's utterly contradictory.

 

Based on who or what?

[BlockHead]

UCFKevin

I don't buy it. That just can't be right. It's BS. I don't think that's what God wants. We're taught that God loves everyone but when you get down to it, it kinda seems like his love is very conditional, at least that's what religion teaches us, and that's not how it is. That can't be. God can't be like that. "You do this and I'll love you, otherwise, you're screwed."

Who serves who? Should man serve God or should God serve man?

 

Pocky

Your statement is inaccurate if you want to include any reference to the Old Testament. Holy war wasn't just a religious idea in Islam.

It is just taught in their mosques.

 

UCFKevin

So homosexuals shouldn't be allowed to marry and get all the rights heterosexuals have because of what someone believes from their religion?

Marriage is not a right. What is the point of allowing homosexual marriages? Allow them to legitimize their children? Strengthen the parental bonds? Prevent the partner from having children from the outside? Why don’t we just disband marriage altogether?

 

UCFKevin

So everyone who isn't Christian is going to spend eternity in Hell because they made a wrong choice or were brought up believing a certain thing?

You were afforded every opportunity and you still rejected him. Reap what you sow.

 

XNemesisX

"A person begotten out of wedlock shall not enter into the assembly of the Lord; even until his tenth generation shall his descendants not enter into the congregation of the Lord" (Deut. 23:2).

Why don’t you talk about circumcision while you are at it?

 

Pocky

It's a mistake on my part to assume that someone that claims they're religious is religiously educated. Some are, but on average, very few people really analyze the religion they claim to follow.

It is also a mistake to assume that the critics are any less ignorant.

 

ConfusedInOC

I need to stress this. I don't hate gay people. I have friends that are gay.

No offense, but I truly despise the ‘best friend is black’, ‘best friend is gay’, etc. type arguments. You are an intelligent guy, and you don’t need to answer to character attacks.

 

XNemesisX

They believe that their religion is the ONLY true one, the ONLY way. It is incredibly pompous. You know there are also religions out there that think that way about Christians..they think THEIR way is the right way and that you are wrong. Who is to say which is true? Maybe none of them are!

Turn on your thinking cap.

What would be the point of having a religion, if all of the others are just as good?

 

Pocky

It wasn't chance. It was years of evolution that screwed up over and over until it finally made something that worked.

This doesn’t make sense.

You can argue it was by chance that evolution worked.

 

mental_traveller

A lot of people on the thread have mentioned faith. The problem is that faith is completely useless at determining whether something is true or false. The proof of this is that different people have equally strong faith in totally contradictory beliefs. For example, some people have absolute faith that god exists; others have absolute faith that god does not exist. Furthermore, huge numbers of people have had faith in things that have subsequently been proved false e.g. that the world was flat. Therefore relying on faith to form your beliefs is unreliable to say the least.

It always boils down to faith. You have faith in you senses, your instruments, and even your results.

True wisdom is knowing that you know nothing.

 

mental_traveller

If you can't rely on faith to determine truth, then what can you base any beliefs on? Well, the usual method is to use facts, evidence, testing, logical reasoning, competing explanations etc. You take a supposition, and test it to see if it's true or false, and see to what extent it fits in to prior experience and understanding of how the world works. The more evidence to support a supposition, the more you can test it, the more it fits in with other truths, the more likely it is to be true. In the absence of supporting evidence and successful tests, what you have is basically just a guess, a shot in the dark.

How do you know your facts are correct? How do you know your evidence is reliable? How do you know your test can be repeated every time? How do you know every rivet, and screw in your framework is reliable? It doesn’t take many bad rivets to bring a tower down.

Your principles could be completely wrong nullifying your whole result. It has happened before and it will happen again.

 

ConfusedInOC

Do you even read or follow the bible? I find it odd people call themselves Christians yet they do not follow the teachings of Christ and do not read the bible.

Some people can interpret things into the bible. Here is one example By works?.

 

Nicholas

I know. It's just dissapointing when I tell people I'm a Christian and they assume I'm also a dumbass.

You also said

Nicholas

My belief in salvation by faith and works is really only hypothetical, as a belief in the afterlife isn't part of my faith.

I think you are a Christian by title alone.

 

moimeme

I find it odd that brand-new 'Christians' who admit to not knowing much about Biblical scholarship presume to be able to judge all others' actions.

We are supposed to judge the actions of others.

I don’t think you realize how judgmental you really are.

 

bluetuesday

here's a thought.

 

the bible, however divinely inspired it may or may not be, is a man made object.

 

blind or excessive devotion to a man made object is biblically condemned as idolatry.

 

therefore fundamental adherence to the written biblical word is not only idolatry, it's utterly contradictory.

Warped logic.

It is the message they are trying to adhere to.

[Nicholas]

Originally posted by ConfusedInOC

Commenting on what makes a true Christian is not being judgemental, it's merely a fact.

No, it's both an unqualified opinion and a fallacy.

 

It's an unqualified opinion because you have no authority over who is Christian and who is not. God did not place you in charge of that.

It's a fallacious because it's a fallacy of ambiguity to exclude parts from a whole using qualifiers like "true". See No True Scotsman.

What is the point of allowing homosexual marriages?

We've had this discussion. I assert that it's a civil rights issue, you state that you support civil unions, I state that civil unions aren't enough because they aren't federal, you state that you could simply make civil unions federal, and then it becomes a semantic battle over the word marriage.

 

You feel, it seems, that because some religions that exclude homosexuals perform marriages, that marriage is a religious word and should not be used by gays. You ignore the fact that not all marriages are religious, and that not all religions exclude homosexuals. I think there's a difference between Holy Matrimony and marriage, and there's no reason to exclude gays from the word marriage simply because some religions call their rites marriage.

I think you are a Christian by title alone.

I'm unconcerned with how you label me. It has no effect on my faith, nor on my ministry.

[moimeme]

I think you are a Christian by title alone

 

Exactly the sorts of obnoxious judgements so-called 'christians' feel qualified, nay, obligated to make.

Definitely a fine case of irony if ever there was one.

[alphamale]

personally I believe that God and religion are human created phenomena to explain what we cannot understand and to fill in the "holes" of our knowledge.

 

I think humans created God because we think we needed one.

[mental_traveller]

Originally posted by BlockHead

It always boils down to faith. You have faith in you senses, your instruments, and even your results.

True wisdom is knowing that you know nothing.

 

How do you know your facts are correct? How do you know your evidence is reliable? How do you know your test can be repeated every time? How do you know every rivet, and screw in your framework is reliable? It doesn’t take many bad rivets to bring a tower down.

Your principles could be completely wrong nullifying your whole result. It has happened before and it will happen again.

 

Actually I don't have faith in my senses, instruments, or results - they are sometimes wrong. I rely on them only to the extent that they have proven accurate, and continue to do so. And you can't know for sure if your facts are correct - all you can do is make an educated guess, based on the evidence at hand. This is exactly why having blind faith in something, having a belief that you will never change or re-examine, is such a bad idea. And that includes having blind faith in religion.

[alphamale]

Originally posted by mental_traveller

This is exactly why having blind faith in something, having a belief that you will never change or re-examine, is such a bad idea. And that includes having blind faith in religion.

And blind faith in people who have a great deal of power such as a CEO, President or even the Pope.

 

Blind faith in Hitler caused a shytload of problems and pain and suffering.

[Nicholas]

Anytime any poster mentions Hitler, chances are his or her logic is flawed somehow, and all too often, the history is flawed too.