Are we horrible people?

[dreamingoftigers]

This was my post to a WW on a different thread about how I didn't understand her choice to continue to cheat even though she clearly stated her partner was innocent, didn't deserve it etc. But she basically "wasn't attracted to him" anymore. She had been seeing another man who was starting to date and he felt that he had "betrayed her" by seeing another woman.

 

I was also told how she is "not a horrible person and the world isn't black and white."

 

"I actually caught my father's adultery.

 

That was great fun! ha, not.

 

And it affected my life in a big way.

 

That being said, I do believe that it changes your worldview.

 

I think that it may have affected you in this way.

 

But the "black and white" argument is often one that most people that choose to cheat make. And sorry, but it is a greatly NOT valid argument.

 

You have everything that you say you want in a partner and that he is a great guy etc etc etc. But you are outright screwing him over.

 

This isn't a case of moral relativity or a "gray area."

 

It's a case of " I want I want I want me me me." Or "I feel X, so therefore I should be able to have Y in order to feel Z." Completely leaving everyone else out of the equation.

 

In a sense, showing a distinct lack of self-love and self-respect.

I think that it is a typical case of human "I know what I want and I will do it regardless of the consequences to everyone else, even my own self-esteem. Because hoping for this passion, devotion, dirty little secret, and longing makes me feel thrilled and daring for a short while. It gives me something to yearn for."

 

Instead of thinking through the rational reasons this is a high-risk situation that I don't believe you are ready for the consequences should it go bust, or you get an STD or pregnant or worse, you have decided, "I want what I want right now, and I will fit my "morals" around it and call it 'not black and white.'"

 

IMHO, from what I have seen of friends (this is anecdotal of course) the ones who do not even AIM for solving their own or relational issues and take a "higher" moral ground.....and instead make the "black and white" argument often are from damaged families and go on to create damaged families.

 

Sadly enough, my husband would probably not even examine his "morals and values." My dear friend E had the not "black and white" stance. Her mother had been the OW while being a MOW during her second marriage. She took her four girls, through Hell after three of them had been raised by the second husband as his step-daughters. They still call him Dad. The fourth sister was his. She went to this relationship where the guy was still married and went back to his wife.

 

So all of that tearing for nothing. The girls lose their Dad, for an affair relationship.

 

The world is full of madness, it is. The only thing that we can do, as parents and partners is not bring the madness home with us. Protect out home from the duplicitous damage we can do. Is it always the most "fun?" No. Do we have cravings for fun and strange sometimes? Yes, I am sure that most of us do sometimes. Especially if we become complacent, as you seem to be. Very complacent.

 

That is when we face ourselves. We say, "do I want to be the mother and partner who is complacent blah blahing about "black and white" because I want some strange? Or do I be the mother and partner that says, "You know what, I walked away from all of that crap and sought happiness from within and went to my partner with my concerns, and we worked it through together. Because I don't stab people in the back. I don't risk my kid's family and future because I am feeling something that I haven't resolved right away. I don't divide my loyalties. My kids come first. First before every self-destructive and complacent urge I have."

 

Or something similar.

 

Screw your "never say never."

My husband wreaked havoc, my father wreaked havoc. Your father wreaked havoc. You felt that. I have had the opportunity to wreak tons of havoc. Guess what? Screw that. No more havoc. There's been enough havoc for one lifetime.

 

You will not find me here saying, "oh we were just friends I didn't mean for this to happen didn't mean to hurt you thought he was my soulmate just needed to let loose once in awhile can't you get past this want a fresh start" cliches. NO.

 

And guess what. Read 100 infidelity threads on here. Read some chumplady, "Stupid s*** cheaters say" and see how those betrayed spouses have had their self-esteem smashed. Cheating isn't some great bastion of unmet needs and happiness. It's an unhealthy behavorial pattern that you are trying to justify. It's a bad drug. One of the most unstable. It's playing with your brain chemistry's bonding hormones to get a high. That's what it is. That's what you are justifying.

 

You don't want to leave your partner or family, so occasionally, you will step how and inject some infidelity into your veins to help you cope with whatever and talk about "moral relativism." It's no different than binge drinking or excessive video game playing. In my case, it's food.

 

Having a healthy family, partnership and self-esteem relies on you figuring out why you think you need and deserve to "get high" at the expense of your kids. You brought them here, they didn't ask for this.

 

So we can say that I am judgmental or whatever. That I come to "condemn" you or whatever. But that's a bunch of BS. It's that crappy behaviour, that crappy crappy abusive behaviour of infidelity I thwack at on this site. At the end of the day, I don't know your kids or you or your husband.

 

But I do know your pattern. The pattern of infidelity and the finger print emotionally and mentally it leaves behind. Just the same as if I were a forensic scientist, I wouldn't be able to tell you what the last words at the crime scene were, but I would have a pretty damn good idea what happened based on what was left behind. I don't know what position you screwed your lover in, but I can tell you that the knife wound to the back like the one you are inflicting into your husband has an effect. And it is not a net positive for anyone. No matter how strong those drivers are for you.

 

So whereas I may not condemn you as "a bad person" I pretty much know that you have the option to make positive causes for yourself and instead you have introduced a net negative (in the long term) to all of your lives and you have not given up your fixation with the infidelity yet. Just because the statement on the moral credit card has not come in yet, doesn't mean that there isn't interest accruing on the balance."

[awkward]

Blu,

 

I am not sure how what we think matters. Do you think you are a horrible person? Do you think your behavior is horrible?

 

How do you feel about people cheating on your mom, your sister, your daughter, etc.? Are they horrible people? Is their behavior horrible.

 

Find your moral compass. Determine what is right for you.

[William]

Folks, this one went left of center for awhile. The unfortunate side effect of that is a lot of really good posts ended up lost in the mix, and to be honest some stuff that I hated to delete that were well written, well thought out and would have been perfectly suitable in a more appropriate thread.

 

All the more reason to refer to the first post rather then to one that has steered the thread askew. ~Thank you

[Ruffian1]

If we aren't characterized by our actions and how we treat people,then what are we defined by?

 

Some people do it and learn/want not to do it again. That is not horrible. Some don’ t care and keep the A or add new A’s. In other words, as long as a deceiver is deceiving, they have no character and the action of cheating IS horrible, regardless of their motive. That is why the A relationship is hidden.

 

My perspective is that infidelity is abuse. When cheaters lie, gaslight, and blameshift — these are acts of power, of gaining advantage by keeping the other person in the dark.

 

Yeah, kind of a horrible way to treat your spouse. Cheating is an action.

 

Your actions show what your heart is made of.

 

It’s really simple:

If you are married, don’t f*#k people you aren’t married to. If you’re single, don’t **** married people.

 

Everyone is responsible for their own actions. No amount of problems in the marriage ever justify cheating.

 

OW/OM:

 

What if a guy/girl did this to you? You'd hate it, wouldn't you? Think about what your actions are saying about who you are and what you're made of.

 

 

They willingly put themselves in this situation and purposefully commit actions that any adult knows will more than likely cause another person tremendous pain, and break up a family as well. Horrible? Ask the BS and hurting kids.

[Blu72]

Folks, this one went left of center for awhile. The unfortunate side effect of that is a lot of really good posts ended up lost in the mix, and to be honest some stuff that I hated to delete that were well written, well thought out and would have been perfectly suitable in a more appropriate thread.

 

All the more reason to refer to the first post rather then to one that has steered the thread askew. ~Thank you

 

Thank you William. One of my posts that had everything to do with the conversation got deleted in the mix, but whatever. I'm bowing out now because you are correct, the conversation was definitely ridiculously taken left of center. I received the feedback I needed and thank all who contributed to the discussion.