Don't know where this is going ...

[merrmeade]

I just posted on another thread that I'd just realized that I've had two STDs in my life from my husband. It had never occurred to me before. It is upsetting, depressing, angering, disturbing and just awful.

 

For some reason, I never get angry. I just get depressed. So very, very sad. I know I've written about this. I understand it from my therapist - Depression is just anger repressed. And I can't help it.

 

It's partly my WH's inability to deal with it in a way that helps me. I realized this - about the STDs - about an hour ago. He was out at the time. He came back about 30 minutes ago and I told him. About 15 minutes later he was muttering something like this: I can't stand this any more. I just want out.

I answered: Fine. Go ahead. (then added) Do you want to talk?

I decided to tell him how I felt. I broke down after a while and left. He said nothing. He never says anything.

 

I know everyone will just say what the hell, mm, why do you do this to yourself Why do you stay?

 

Just help me, please, with what's going on. Why it's so hard. Why he can't do right by me even now. I know but I don't know.

 

I really just feel like such a loser for having been so naive and stupid for so many years and for not being able to feel entitled like everyone else.

 

I feel really fragile.

[harrybrown]

Sorry you are having this horrible experience.

 

your H would not open up to you?

 

Will he go with you to counseling?

 

You can't have communication in marriage by yourself.

 

Did he admit to cheating?

 

Maybe you can take some time to talk to a counselor yourself. Hard to make good decisions when you are so deep in pain.

 

Hope things get better.

[I_Give_Up67]

Mer- You offer so much helpful common sense advice and opinions on LS to many that come here seeking answers. I'm sure it must be a form of therapy for you as it is for me. But I want to ask you this, why did you choose to stay with him after all he has done to you and your M? I ask this not to be mean or offensive, but after all you have been through with your BH why did you stay?

[minimariah]

I feel really fragile.

 

you're not a loser and you're not stupid, sweetheart.

but you deserve so, so much better.

 

and i think you know the ugly truth, you're just not ready to face it... but you will be and that day will come and you will finally walk out & put yourself on #1.

 

wishing you the best of luck.

[ladydesigner]

It sounds like your WH is a little like mine. Anytime I bring up anything from the A my WH thinks I am "beating him up":lmao: lol if he only knew I'd love to sock him big time. The more my WH does this the more I distance myself because he isn't proving to me that he is a safe person. You see he did this while I was in False R, not wanting to discuss the A, and now I know why. I will not tolerate rug sweeping of any kind anymore. If he doesn't want to discuss the A then it's just too damn bad, there's the door. My WH and I will be attending MC soon so we will see how he approaches his A being discussed in therapy. I hope the therapist holds my WH's feet to the fire.

 

(((merrmeade))) I too received 2 stds from my WH. fortunately they were the curable kind.

 

I have a question, does your WH show you much empathy?

[loveboid]

There's a quote by Tolstoy I like:

“All happy families are alike; each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way.”

 

You're asking why he can't treat you right...well he's the last person you should ask. He won't tell you...maybe he doesn't know. We don't know either. It could be one of a million reasons. It doesn't matter. I think you should leave him and be happy. I think you're right...happiness shouldn't be so hard.

[SoulStorm]

I just posted on another thread that I'd just realized that I've had two STDs in my life from my husband. It had never occurred to me before. It is upsetting, depressing, angering, disturbing and just awful.

 

For some reason, I never get angry. I just get depressed. So very, very sad. I know I've written about this. I understand it from my therapist - Depression is just anger repressed. And I can't help it.

 

It's partly my WH's inability to deal with it in a way that helps me. I realized this - about the STDs - about an hour ago. He was out at the time. He came back about 30 minutes ago and I told him. About 15 minutes later he was muttering something like this: I can't stand this any more. I just want out.

I answered: Fine. Go ahead. (then added) Do you want to talk?

I decided to tell him how I felt. I broke down after a while and left. He said nothing. He never says anything.

 

I know everyone will just say what the hell, mm, why do you do this to yourself Why do you stay?

 

Just help me, please, with what's going on. Why it's so hard. Why he can't do right by me even now. I know but I don't know.

 

I really just feel like such a loser for having been so naive and stupid for so many years and for not being able to feel entitled like everyone else.

 

I feel really fragile.

 

MM,

 

You seem to have never gotten closure or a defining answer for his "why"

 

Why did he do this and why won't he empathize my pain?

 

Your husband seems ashamed and doesn't know how to look past his embarrassment to console you.

Like a lot of men, he probably doesn't deal well with emotions that deal with hurt, shame and devastation. Especially if he was the cause of it.

 

 

It seems his instincts are to clam up and run away.

 

He probably had some serious Family Of Origin issues with one or both of his parents.

Until he can learn to be strong enough to deal with his own emotions, he can never help you reconcile yours.

[BetrayedH]

I really just feel like such a loser ... for not being able to feel entitled like everyone else.

 

I'm familiar with this feeling. It was ultimately my jealousy of my wife's affair that led me to have my own. But like my wife, your husband is a broken person and there's nothing to envy about that. It clearly hasn't led him to happiness. There's nothing there to be jealous or envious of.

 

As for your H's reply, it's his usual. He's not remorseful, mermeade. He's just stuck in shame. It's all about him.

 

When he said he wanted out, I wish you had just left it at, "Fine. Go ahead."

[autumnnight]

mm, I am so sorry you are feeling so low. This really just, to be honest, irked me on your behalf:

 

I can't stand this any more. I just want out.

 

Really?? Really????? Unless he has been the ultimate repentant, hardworking, transparent WH for the last 5 years, he has NO right to say that. Your life got turned upside down, changed, halted in a way. I bet YOU want out of the pain too, pain you didn't ask for.

 

Okay, I am sure none of that was really helpful. My point is that YOU are valuable. YOUR value does not depend on his constitution and ability to actually talk to you.

 

(((mm)))

[Noirek]

If he is NPD or has some other disorder then he might not even be able to get it. Not in any real way.

[elaine567]

It seems to me that reconciling after cheating, is some sort of torture for both the BS and the WS.

 

The BS is understandably unhappy and I get the continual mulling over of the situation - hell on earth, I get it.

But is there a point where berating the WS over his/her wrong doings becomes actual abuse?

 

Merrmeade,

Every person, cheater or not deserves a life, and how can your husband ever recompense you for what he has done to you, how can he get his life back?

I don't think he can, and neither can you.

I guess he is dreading every moment he spends with you, because at any time you can bring up the cheating AGAIN.

 

That is why you need to split, you can't forgive or forget. You will never get the answers or the correct behaviour from your husband you want and he can never live up to your expectations of him.

I guess he has moved on, he has compartmentalised the cheating, and he cannot see why you can't do the same. He is now getting annoyed and probably pretty angry too.

This is tearing you apart, and he, I guess, is at the end of his tether.

Put a stop to the marriage now, is my advice.

[Lion Heart]

It's partly my WH's inability to deal with it in a way that helps me. I realized this - about the STDs - about an hour ago. He was out at the time. He came back about 30 minutes ago and I told him. About 15 minutes later he was muttering something like this: I can't stand this any more. I just want out.

I answered: Fine. Go ahead. (then added) Do you want to talk?

I decided to tell him how I felt. I broke down after a while and left. He said nothing. He never says anything.

 

I feel really fragile.

 

Dear Merrmeade,

 

The TT is what you mind is allowing to expose to you bit by bit.

It's a horrible reality. Your mind is only giving you what it thinks you can handle and process. I posted a long thing somewhere on ls about this process.

 

Your particular situation has SO MANY incredulous, unbelievable and shocking elements to it, that no way could you deal with the whole lot at one bite! I won't list the things I know about your situation but there are just way TOO many things.

 

I also said on my thread about the chn when someone diagnosed me with "anger issues". My psych said she'd be FAR MORE WORRIED about ME if I didn't feel alot of anger toward WH. It was anger but anger issues - no.

 

YES BECAUSE suppressed anger is FAR worse for the human psyche. It = depression.

 

DEPRESSION = feelings of HELPLESSNESS + HOPELESSNESS over a LONG period of time. It's those latter feelings that need to be your focus on you. YOU are not "hopeLESS" or "helpLESS" you are actually fine (a few minor details like a retirement fund but hey, right now you ARE fine!). It's the SITUATION and MARRIAGE that you feel is hopeless and see helpless. - I described my M to my gf the other day in a text:

"I'm doin ok

Marraige is terminal".

That's detachment. I'm still attached somewhat to the M but I'm beginning to understand as K (psych bf said to me soon after D Day) explained, when I asked for her summation in a nutshell "Lion Heart, you KNOW this relationship with WH is over but it'll take a while for you to accept that fact".

Ok. With all the other factors to consider like "how on EARTH can I raise THREE teenagers by MYSELF" etc etc etc were answered, as my strength and mind altering determination returned, I can see she was COMPLETELY CORRECT. Resoundingly so. It's ACCEPTANCE of the things I cannot change. Serenity prayer.

 

Your WH (and indeed mine) do not have what it takes to help us. Whether it be healing energies or actions or empathy or deep love, I don't know.

It's simply sad they don't have it in them but there you are. They don't. NO MATTER what we're going through, they can't express what we need, so we can't depend on them for our healing. We grieve for this too because we not only want to heal from all this but WE WANT OUR RELATIONSHIP to heal. I don't see how it can happen with only 1 part of the whole working on it as stated over and over on ls. I agree. I surrender.

 

That said it doesn't mean we CAN'T HEAL or WON'T HEAL! We MUST heal. I'm not sure if anyone ever fully recovers from the death of a loved one. What we face is the death of a loved relationship. It's grief mixed with alot of the feelings & thoughts I listed above.

 

For Today I will practise:

LOVE for myself, my babies

GRATITUDE for another day on this beautiful planet

DETACHMENT from those that cause me harm

ACCEPTANCE of the things I cannot change

DETERMINATION to do things that benefit me now and build foundation for my future whatever it holds.

 

Practise is not merely thought. ACTIONS flowing from those decisions for ME, just for TODAY.

 

Merrmeade I'm sorry.

You're NOT ACTUALLY fragile, you just feel that way from time to time. You've got incredible strength, love and power. Divert these to yourself and don't waste a breath in the wrong direction.

 

Hugs

Lion Heart.

[merrmeade]

Sorry you are having this horrible experience.

 

your H would not open up to you?

 

Will he go with you to counseling?

 

You can't have communication in marriage by yourself.

 

Did he admit to cheating?

 

Maybe you can take some time to talk to a counselor yourself. Hard to make good decisions when you are so deep in pain.

 

Hope things get better.

Well, I made him talk. I cried. He cried. He even said some acknowledging things. It helped.

 

I posted a bit prematurely maybe.

[Noirek]

Well, I made him talk. I cried. He cried. He even said some acknowledging things. It helped.

 

I posted a bit prematurely maybe.

 

When you put someone on the defensive they often shut down. It is a very common trait. I am glad you pushed through a little more. Remind yourseld you can't make him someone he isn't.

[merrmeade]

MM,

 

You seem to have never gotten closure or a defining answer for his "why"

 

(1) Why did he do this and why won't he empathize my pain?

 

Your husband seems ashamed and(2) doesn't know how to look past his embarrassment to console you.

Like a lot of men, he probably doesn't deal well with emotions that deal with hurt, shame and devastation. Especially if he was the cause of it.

 

It seems his instincts are to clam up and run away.

 

He probably (3) had some serious Family Of Origin issues with one or both of his parents.

Until he can learn to be strong enough to deal with his own emotions, he can never help you reconcile yours.

So we talked and cried like I said. And I told him I needed to hear that the only thing that will help me is to hear that he knows how I feel (always coaching). So he actually said a few things in that line. A first, but it helped. That was (1) and (2).

 

He offered some things about (3) and how f-cked up his childhood was.

 

Thank you all for posting.

 

Then,

[Lion Heart]

It seems to me that reconciling after cheating, is some sort of torture for both the BS and the WS.

 

The BS is understandably unhappy and I get the continual mulling over of the situation - hell on earth, I get it.

But is there a point where berating the WS over his/her wrong doings becomes actual abuse?

 

REALLY? Elaine you actually believe that? Have you experienced the pain of betrayal As the betrayed?

 

AND did you NOT read the fact stated in the starter thread.

Merrmeade JUST FOUND OUT less than hours ago!!!!

THAT she has contracted not 1 but 2 STDs from her HUSBANDS MULTIPLE AFFAIRS!

 

SHEER OUTRAGE is what she SHOULD feel at this new, very new and physically ENDANGERING information. As far as I'm concerned she's nowhere NEAR angry enough! Hence her depression.

 

Would you expect to feel "Meh so I got a couple of STDs from you since we were married, no biggy darling, give us a hug"

 

NO NO NO!

 

Merrmeade is in R with her WH, this means you DO need to communicate with him. ESPECIALLY when NEW information comes to light. This information could pale in comparison to everything else she already knows. This is potentially life threatening.

 

I'd want to rip his poxy member off! Another measly excuse? None even offered. Not a "well I didn't MEAN to give you STDs. I'm so deeply sorry that my behaviours did that to you. What can I do to help you?" Nothing.

 

If you call a W sharing her grief with her WH over diseases she caught Because of his As, then speaking to WH about it,

abuse? Good grief girl. Think again.

 

She merely spoke, cried, walked away, came to ls for support.

That's all.

 

Lion Heart.

[Noirek]

I think that She just put it together that she contacted two stis from her WH, and not that she just learned she has two.

[Mazerati]

Merr,

 

I am heartbroken for you. When I read that in the other post, I went OMG!

 

All I can suggest is keep trying to communicate with your feelings with WH. And please ignore, the insensitive comments by some here.

 

Put yourself first, and take care of you. You are number one, and if WH can't or won't, then contemplate alternatives. AND if it ever feels hopeless Lionheart has your back!!

 

Hugs ?

 

Maz

[merrmeade]

I'm familiar with this feeling. It was ultimately my jealousy of my wife's affair that led me to have my own. But like my wife, your husband is a broken person and there's nothing to envy about that. It clearly hasn't led him to happiness. There's nothing there to be jealous or envious of.

 

As for your H's reply, it's his usual. He's not remorseful, mermeade. He's just stuck in shame. It's all about him.

 

When he said he wanted out, I wish you had just left it at, "Fine. Go ahead."

And you, BH, know my husband so well. You're my go-to when I just need to hear somebody go ballistic on my behalf. But guess what? My brother did that for me. I mean, in his way. Straight up honest facts about what was wrong about what he did TO ME and what's f-ked up about him. (definitely wasn't a fan already) He doesn't do ballistic but he was great. You would've liked it.

[Mazerati]

I think that She just put it together that she contacted two stis from her WH, and not that she just learned she has two.

 

I believe you are correct with that assessment.

 

And Noirek, good luck to you with you concerns. As another poster said. I believe in you.

[merrmeade]

My WH and I will be attending MC soon so we will see how he approaches his A being discussed in therapy. I hope the therapist holds my WH's feet to the fire.

 

(((merrmeade))) I too received 2 stds from my WH. fortunately they were the curable kind.

 

I have a question, does your WH show you much empathy?

I would like to go back to MC. We'll see ($$). I love the hugs. But the last question — you're joking, right?

___________________

 

you're not a loser and you're not stupid, sweetheart. but you deserve so, so much better..

That's what i needed to hear.

________________________

 

Mer- You offer so much helpful common sense advice and opinions on LS to many that come here seeking answers. I'm sure it must be a form of therapy for you as it is for me. But I want to ask you this, why did you choose to stay with him after all he has done to you and your M? I ask this not to be mean or offensive, but after all you have been through with your BH why did you stay?

Thank you, dear, but I can't really answer your question either. There are many reasons and none. I know but I don't know. Ask Noirek or Lion Heart. (I'm serious.)

_________________________________

 

I think you should leave him and be happy. I think you're right...happiness shouldn't be so hard.

I love Tolstoy. You're right, lb, it shouldn't be so hard. I think I have a stubborn streak. That it isn't real happiness if it depends on anyone negatively or positively. If I leave and am happy BECAUSE he's not there, it's still not my happiness. I want to be happy with or without him. It's my human right.

_________________________________

 

Merr, I am heartbroken for you. When I read that in the other post, I went OMG!

 

All I can suggest is keep trying to communicate with your feelings with WH. *** And please ignore, the insensitive comments by some here.

 

Put yourself first, and take care of you. You are number one, and if WH can't or won't, then contemplate alternatives. AND if it ever feels hopeless Lionheart has your back!!

 

Hugs Maz

Thanks, Maz, and *** yes, I agree that is key. Telling him how I feel. It's how I started off today and what I knew I had to do. It's the one thing keeps him somewhat more human than otherwise.

 

P.S.Where'd you get the rose?

___________________________________

mm, I am so sorry you are feeling so low. This really just, to be honest, irked me on your behalf:

 

Really?? Really????? Unless he has been the ultimate repentant, hardworking, transparent WH for the last 5 years, he has NO right to say that. Your life got turned upside down, changed, halted in a way. I bet YOU want out of the pain too, pain you didn't ask for.

 

Okay, I am sure none of that was really helpful. My point is that YOU are valuable. YOUR value does not depend on his constitution and ability to actually talk to you.

 

(((mm)))

This was just ---- awesome. Righteous anger can feel so nurturing.

_____________________________

 

When you put someone on the defensive they often shut down. It is a very common trait. I am glad you pushed through a little more. Remind yourself you can't make him someone he isn't.

 

... If he is NPD or has some other disorder then he might not even be able to get it. Not in any real way.

Yes, and yes, Noirek.

________________________

It seems to me that reconciling after cheating, is some sort of torture for both the BS and the WS.

 

The BS is understandably unhappy and I get the continual mulling over of the situation - hell on earth, I get it.

But is there a point where berating the WS over his/her wrong doings becomes actual abuse?

Yes, the first sentence and NAH, the last one.

 

Me? Berating? Laughable. You should be here and listen to my soft-peddled efforts at communication...

__________________________

 

And LIon Heart, my dear. What can I say. You continually touch my heart in the most profound ways. You know, I wrote a long PM earlier today (and then got all discombobulated when my browser started pooping popup ads, closed it and lost the message). Didn't finish but I was wondering how YOU're doing and told you what a million-year soul you are. You're ability to give full-throttle but controlled expression to whatever you're feeling just floors and inspires me. I always feel my daughter in you.

[Mazerati]

The same place I found these:

 

☕ ? ? and of course ? or for that other thread which I wont post on ?

 

That place is my phone.

 

Maz

 

?

 

And keep talking with WH ?

Edited April 3, 2015 by Mazerati

[merrmeade]

Dear Merrmeade,

 

The TT is what you mind is allowing to expose to you bit by bit.

It's a horrible reality. Your mind is only giving you what it thinks you can handle and process. I posted a long thing somewhere on ls about this process.

 

Your particular situation has SO MANY incredulous, unbelievable and shocking elements to it, that no way could you deal with the whole lot at one bite! I won't list the things I know about your situation but there are just way TOO many things.

 

I also said on my thread about the chn when someone diagnosed me with "anger issues". My psych said she'd be FAR MORE WORRIED about ME if I didn't feel alot of anger toward WH. It was anger but anger issues - no.

 

YES BECAUSE suppressed anger is FAR worse for the human psyche. It = depression.

 

DEPRESSION = feelings of HELPLESSNESS + HOPELESSNESS over a LONG period of time. It's those latter feelings that need to be your focus on you. YOU are not "hopeLESS" or "helpLESS" you are actually fine (a few minor details like a retirement fund but hey, right now you ARE fine!). It's the SITUATION and MARRIAGE that you feel is hopeless and see helpless. - I described my M to my gf the other day in a text:

"I'm doin ok

Marraige is terminal".

That's detachment. I'm still attached somewhat to the M but I'm beginning to understand as K (psych bf said to me soon after D Day) explained, when I asked for her summation in a nutshell "Lion Heart, you KNOW this relationship with WH is over but it'll take a while for you to accept that fact".

Ok. With all the other factors to consider like "how on EARTH can I raise THREE teenagers by MYSELF" etc etc etc were answered, as my strength and mind altering determination returned, I can see she was COMPLETELY CORRECT. Resoundingly so. It's ACCEPTANCE of the things I cannot change. Serenity prayer.

 

Your WH (and indeed mine) do not have what it takes to help us. Whether it be healing energies or actions or empathy or deep love, I don't know.

It's simply sad they don't have it in them but there you are. They don't. NO MATTER what we're going through, they can't express what we need, so we can't depend on them for our healing. We grieve for this too because we not only want to heal from all this but WE WANT OUR RELATIONSHIP to heal. I don't see how it can happen with only 1 part of the whole working on it as stated over and over on ls. I agree. I surrender.

 

That said it doesn't mean we CAN'T HEAL or WON'T HEAL! We MUST heal. I'm not sure if anyone ever fully recovers from the death of a loved one. What we face is the death of a loved relationship. It's grief mixed with alot of the feelings & thoughts I listed above.

 

For Today I will practise:

LOVE for myself, my babies

GRATITUDE for another day on this beautiful planet

DETACHMENT from those that cause me harm

ACCEPTANCE of the things I cannot change

DETERMINATION to do things that benefit me now and build foundation for my future whatever it holds.

 

Practise is not merely thought. ACTIONS flowing from those decisions for ME, just for TODAY.

 

Merrmeade I'm sorry.

You're NOT ACTUALLY fragile, you just feel that way from time to time. You've got incredible strength, love and power. Divert these to yourself and don't waste a breath in the wrong direction.

 

Hugs

Lion Heart.

This was the right thread to read while I was free falling. Had it all. Shock, indignation, coaching, conviction. Not the regular type either.

The parts in bold were new perspectives I'll go back to. What was especially important to look at for a minute was "you're not actually fragile." No, maybe not. Not sure actually but I do sort of see what my therapist talks about sometimes (and I know in my heart of hearts). That is the need for vulnerability and far-seeing clarity to rest hand in hand in a relationship. Hardest to do.

[Lion Heart]

And LIon Heart, my dear. What can I say. You continually touch my heart in the most profound ways. You know, I wrote a long PM earlier today (and then got all discombobulated when my browser started pooping popup ads, closed it and lost the message). Didn't finish but I was wondering how YOU're doing and told you what a million-year soul you are. You're ability to give full-throttle but controlled expression to whatever you're feeling just floors and inspires me. I always feel my daughter in you.

 

Dear Merrmeade, if only I had been your daughter too.

Line me up for next life please. X

Today is Good Friday here. I'm sad right now.

But I will dress myself and take my chn to my DDs for a warm family gathering with son-in-laws family. My new family is emerging and growing. What a blessing. When I hold my darling grandson and he plays with my G - father's medal that hangs around my neck I FEEL the learning from all my past generations meld in that moment for the future ones to come. The bridge is me, right now and forever. I honour my ancestors and I honour my descendants. I need to honour myself. WE need to honour ourselves.

 

I'm in pain right now and that's ok. This too soon will pass and joy will replace it.

 

Soon I'll travel to Ks farm to tape her mother's stories of being a child in Nazi occupied Germany. She is in the beginnings of dementia and I can't bear the thought of her wisdom being lost to anyone. This need is urgent in me. K is far wiser than me, my DD at 22yo is too. I rejoice in them! I rejoice in you, a kindred soul.

 

My aim is to collect all the wisdom I can and write it down in any form to share. From the great grand father who held me in his lap and shared. Through to people in my life now, like you, who struggle with the actions of others. Wisdom can be gathered and I need to do this. I can't see a way forward in my M but I can in my life. This suffering MUST result in some good for someone!

 

Many blessings at Easter and always.

Lion Heart

[Steen719]

Dear Merrmeade, if only I had been your daughter too.

Line me up for next life please. X

Today is Good Friday here. I'm sad right now.

But I will dress myself and take my chn to my DDs for a warm family gathering with son-in-laws family. My new family is emerging and growing. What a blessing. When I hold my darling grandson and he plays with my G - father's medal that hangs around my neck I FEEL the learning from all my past generations meld in that moment for the future ones to come. The bridge is me, right now and forever. I honour my ancestors and I honour my descendants. I need to honour myself. WE need to honour ourselves.

 

I'm in pain right now and that's ok. This too soon will pass and joy will replace it.

 

Soon I'll travel to Ks farm to tape her mother's stories of being a child in Nazi occupied Germany. She is in the beginnings of dementia and I can't bear the thought of her wisdom being lost to anyone. This need is urgent in me. K is far wiser than me, my DD at 22yo is too. I rejoice in them! I rejoice in you, a kindred soul.

 

My aim is to collect all the wisdom I can and write it down in any form to share. From the great grand father who held me in his lap and shared. Through to people in my life now, like you, who struggle with the actions of others. Wisdom can be gathered and I need to do this. I can't see a way forward in my M but I can in my life. This suffering MUST result in some good for someone!

 

Many blessings at Easter and always.

Lion Heart

 

Apologies for the t/j mm

 

Lionheart, I honestly think you need to write a book. You have interesting perspectives and it sounds like you have a lot of interesting people to draw from. I would buy it.

 

MM, I don't believe that everyone eventually gets it and as BH said, H is caught in his shame and is thinking about himself. You may end up staying in a relationship that always has this cloud hanging over it, sort of like Drifter. I sure don't think he and you would be the only ones to do it. Some people never get out of themselves adequately enough to consider seriously what their actions have done to you. And sadly, as I have said before, I do not think you can teach anyone to have empathy.

 

That is just my opinion.

 

Take some power back from him. No one who has stayed and tried to reconcile with a cheating partner is weak, just as leaving is not weak. It is just what the person in the situation decides is the best of 2 crappy choices. Questioning our choices is what drives us mad. (hence my signature quote).

 

Best of luck.