Don't know where this is going ...

[Lion Heart]

Lion Heart...girl....You are a STRONG ONE! you know what i think?? I think you GOT THIS!

 

You are making decisions left and right....you are thinking about you and the kids and to hell with "king"....and i could not agree more with what you are doing!

 

It is time for you to put "king" in his place!

 

I keep thinking back to our situation. I am a very controlling high strung person. John is easy going and laid back...however....he has VERY strong principles...and if you back him into a corner he will attack. He feels no pain when attacking. I have watched him in action. I cower and weep....not him...he comes at you with everything in his being!

 

So...in the beginning of our reconciliation...i placed myself in his control....and the funny thing is....he felt like i was the one calling the shots....and i felt it was him.

 

What i am trying to say to you beautiful ladies is this....i know it is frightening...I was scared to death that John would kick me out.....but you girls are in the position to call the shots! I do not mean mistreat your way wards in any way....but you certainly need to let them know....your future is no longer in their control.

 

I guess i think if you make them angry and they walk...what do you lose?

 

If they walk...you win

If they stay and do all the things you need....you win

 

Stay strong LH and merrmeade....hold those heads up and take charge. You are the ones who are "king"....those of us who betrayed...deserve nothing. The love...the forgiveness....the life you give to us...is a GIFT.....

 

I love my gift....i rejoice everyday for my gift....I will never again take my gift for granted.

 

Hugs...to the beautiful souls here who have graciously given the gift of a second chance.

 

Hail to the Queens of loveshack...may you forever reign!

 

Thankyou so much Mrs Adams for that honest and forthright and serious response. It's so serious that I have to add humour or go nuts.

 

The NPD thing "King and his subjects" is exactly how an experienced C told me the scenario plays out in NPD.

The "partnership" in M I so desperately craved has never been there. I was always the family's bottom line and it drove me nuts. KING would rake up MASSIVE debts (already under HUGE mortgage debt I fought with him almost a year about. It was my money and I wanted to EFTPOS the house across the road from my brother - our only family support!) No King wanted a bloody castle (which mind you has been disintegrating round our heads for over a decade because now I realize KINGS DON'T NEED TO WORK. Their subjects do!). So King got the house and a $400k mortgage. $2620 / month on his wage of less than $1200.

So by the time ALL my $$ had run out, I was pregnant with No 4 and he had to resign for me to work FT whilst breastfeeding twins and pregnant and a teenager and do all the house work till midnight because HE couldn't cope! OMG. I washed all their cloth nappies. Oh and every single day after work I took the twins out to a park to give him a break to do nothing. Oh and every other spare minute I was selling everything I could on ebay to pay the mortgage ahead. He blew that all. He's blown my "mortgage ahead payments" 3 x now.

 

I thought he was dumping it all on me because he thought I was King but it was actually because HE WAS.

 

If I hear him say "I SHOULDN'T HAVE TO this or that" one more time I think I'll scream. That's just his catch phrase for everything he actually SHOULD be taking responsibility for.

 

So I worked when DD was 6m old because in a few short months he'd run up another credit card $8500 plus used up the mortgage. Starting his own business his excuse. I was breastfeeding THREE chn with only two nipples LOL.

King should've brought his Royal Wet Nurses in! Plus I ran two direct selling businesses. Plus ebay. And ebay was our ONLY FOOD money. There was NO spending money. None.

 

DD 13yo got a job against my wishes but she needed money.

When 14yo she got 2 jobs and worked every night and night and days on weekends. She saved (bless her soul) for MISSION WORK OS from 11yo and flew out to India and Polynesia and soon to be Indonesia plus Uluru to HELP others. Stayed in leper colonies and orphanages. Built houses and schools with her beautiful little hands. Collected books and clothing for these people. Still is THIS WEEK! G** how the world is blessed to have her spend half her life of 22y working painstakingly for OTHERS!

 

NOW she's raising a baby son. Counselling others on breastfeeding because DANG she's seen it all! And does whatever she can to collect for OS and Save The Bears & Greenpeace (the only child at her school running a cake stall every month for Bears & Whales!! xx). AND I can't believe it but now she's studying PSYCHOLOGY. As far as I'm concerned she's earnt her degree already! Lol.

 

And she helps out with my children. I don't ask. She always offers. Recently she told me I'm her best friend. I just cried.

I am so unworthy of this angel in my life.

 

Mrs Adams and My Mermaid and every ONE else who struggles with this unbelievable pain, may God bless you all. Thankyou for reaching out. I know for sure I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for you.

 

For now I choose to be grateful for another beautiful day.

I know I can get through this. I don't know how but I pray my path will be shown and I'll be faithful enough to see.

It's been a hard morning. I'm grappling with the truth or whatever WH wants to call it.

 

I'll be ok. My Chiro is a faithful man and he prays with me.

 

I've not revealed the major health hurdles I've overcome here on LS (seriously my friends can't believe my life either!!!)

but suffice to say I've had a broken back from labour 22yo which wasn't diagnosed until after birth of No 4 12y later.

Drs were treating the wrong thing and diagnosed arthritis. My friend who's a Dr of Maths & Science sent me straight to this chiro and he kept me out of a wheelchair. I'm so strong. But early last year (errk) by organs were falling through my fully separated stomach after carrying twins. I'm on a strict FODMAP diet to avoid surgery. See a physiologist and do EVERYTHING I was told that I'd never do again like walk, run, kayak, garden, build, surf and ride horses on Ks farm and other farms we visit.

Hey! My WH never knows if I'm in pain until I'm groaning in my sleep. I never complain about it. I just get on and do it.

As I will again today. Big smiles!

Thanks for the online love!

 

Lion Heart.

[Mrs. John Adams]

It is amazing what we can overcome when we set our minds to it.

 

I am a very blessed woman...i have a wonderful husband, terrific kids and wonderful parents.

 

I am so moved by others who have so many struggles...i am almost ashamed because my life is so much easier.

 

I admire you all....from the bottom of my heart. Thank you for being kind to me.

[merrmeade]

Mermaid is FAR FAR FAR more patient and kind and loving than I am. Gosh she shows SOOOOO much more empathy for her WH. He is sooooooooo lucky he isn't my WH.

No, it's just a way of talking to myself, finding explanation, kind of intellectualizing it, so it doesn't hurt. If I can understand it, I'm not destroyed by it.

For years I got used to the lack of intimacy. WH just plainly said "I don't do that". It's SOOOOOooooo lonely having a relationship with a person like WH. A Counsellor said to me that a true NPD can't experience true intimacy. He CAN be nice or CAN be loving but it's ALWAYS to benefit WH. So the sex has been like having a series of ONS with a stranger really.

Wow, LH, you always drop these little gems. It would be devastating if it weren't for the fact that someone else shares it.

 

These statements almost gave me an anxiety attack. The lack of intimacy. I'd never read this but it was one thing I said to my H Sunday when we had the talk. I said I'd hoped we'd start over and discover new intimacy, but we haven't and that's very discouraging . I said that I wanted MC again to get that. So I realized today that's why he's sort of been 'trying' again – for him. (I have to be alert or I'll miss it because what he thinks is 'trying' no one else would recognize as anything special. )

 

It's prescient that you're saying it just when I was thinking about it. Yes, it's SOOOOOOOOOOoooooooo lonely having a relationship with a person like WH. I think it ALL the time. It is like your heart slowly withers, you forget what a thrill feels like, you forget what a shared look can do, you forget what it is to be cherished. Sex is physical, which is not bad sex, just not emotional, not intimate.

 

I don't know why I didn't cut and run after the first couple of times having sex. I remember looking at his immobile, expressionless face and thinking, "Your face is stone, sir." I wrote it in my journal just like that. But he was so staggeringly handsome and introduced me to a spiritual life. At least for that, I can thank him, I suppose. It's ironic that he also never seemed to 'get' that either.

I thought it was different when we first met but it was probably only my projection. WH was also trying REALLY HARD when we 1st met. Still WHILE there was overt and OBVIOUS competition. WH was on his very best behaviour. It was when I had his twins that it started to go downhill. WH "had me". The NPD "King and his subjects to serve him". I guess he "de-throned" himself on D Day because even his little subjects (the kids) know who he is.

After each of my first two children were born WH had an A. Definitely about getting dethroned.

Their behaviour has changed towards him and like your WH merrmeade, he doesn't notice. It's the King thing.

After the last A (the first I found out about) when we were about to tell our adult children, WH actually asked me if we had to tell one of them about the PA because he might "lose respect." I kid you not. This, my friends, is what we call "not getting it."

Plus I'm taking steps so as NOT TO build any MORE resentment than I already have after his A.

The reason the NPD book helps me is because the perspective is compassion for the childhood deficits that caused the unfillable hole in these people and keeps them doing anything but fill it. I don't even want to be a person who forgives the abuse before it happens just because I know why he does it. The problem is that they're so sneaky and tricky in the ways they copy normal behavior in public. It's studied, conscious effort to get approval and they change according to the other person's values and tastes. It still blows my mind that OW's family thinks they know WH and believe he was maligned over the years by my mother, who never trusted him. He fooled them but not my mother or my brother.

[merrmeade]

I did a lot of reading about NDP and how we all have narcissistic qualities but in a true NDP it is up and beyond that. And from what I gather they feed of a supply to their fragile ego. And the have a hard time if not impossible being self reflective. They are users and when their supply is cut ofd can often be verbally abusive. NDP even over sociopaths has a very low rate of success in being overcome for the very reason they have a hard time first admitting it and then learning to curb their behaviour. A sociopath (the everyday ones not the seriel killers) can see the difference and adapt their behaviour to blend. So my question in this is. If such a bleak and dark future is on the horizon with someone who is NDP how do you learn to cope with that?

Succinct capture of WH.

 

- supply to their fragile ego

This is why I was never enough. I don't do bullsh-t and always saw him as human. No more, no less. He needed worshippers and so would make huge sacrifice, including his family, to rescue others.

 

- hard time if not impossible being self reflective

Never, ever happens. Never. Not once. Well, take that back; it happens if it's a an observation about his qualities or uniqueness that others notice.

 

- users and when their supply is cut off can often be verbally abusive

Can't give a specific example, I think, because there are so many. Main one is that he complains about one period of our life when we lived in a large urban area, says he was lonely, no friends and I rejected him. Reality was I had a great job, felt valued, not SAHM any more. He never made friends, wasn't admired by anyone. No As there. He was awful to me but remembers his unhappiness only.

 

- hard time first admitting it and then learning to curb their behaviour

Actually this is happening a teeny, weeny bit. He did admit. He does try to curb behavior. When he's abusive, he stops quickly and - though he doesn't apologize - he stops. In other words, he notices and he doesn't blame me. This is progress.

 

- sociopath can ... adapt their behaviour to blend

Yes. WH was someone I didn't know during the time he was 'rescuing' OW and her family. They know him as someone my kids and I never met. He says he was desperate, had no money, nowhere to go (unfortunately true).

 

- So my question in this is. If such a bleak and dark future is on the horizon with someone who is NDP how do you learn to cope with that?

 

When I read Not Just Friends and How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair, I vowed that he would be my witness. He would see it, know it and do whatever I needed to heal. Well, ahem. He wasn't quite up to the job. I got better (relatively) on my own and will continue to do so - in spite of him and without his help.

 

He is free to go but knows that I will so expose him to the few people who still think he's wonderful (or semi-wonderful). I have never said this, but he is not wrong.

[lgspot]

merrmeade, Lion Heart, Mrs. John Adams, Noirek,

All of you all are strong and wise. I'm forever grateful you post. Your viewpoints are so valuable to LS.

Experiences in Reconciliation are my favorite stories on the board (other than sex ), so I regularly follow your posts

.

merrmeade,

You continue to amaze me with your grace and class.

You definitely are not fragile!!!

 

 

I just posted on another thread that I'd just realized that I've had two STDs in my life from my husband. It had never occurred to me before. It is upsetting, depressing, angering, disturbing and just awful.

 

For some reason, I never get angry. I just get depressed. So very, very sad. I know I've written about this. I understand it from my therapist - Depression is just anger repressed. And I can't help it.

 

It's partly my WH's inability to deal with it in a way that helps me. I realized this - about the STDs - about an hour ago. He was out at the time. He came back about 30 minutes ago and I told him. About 15 minutes later he was muttering something like this: I can't stand this any more. I just want out.

I answered: Fine. Go ahead. (then added) Do you want to talk?

I decided to tell him how I felt. I broke down after a while and left. He said nothing. He never says anything.

 

I know everyone will just say what the hell, mm, why do you do this to yourself Why do you stay?

 

Just help me, please, with what's going on. Why it's so hard. Why he can't do right by me even now. I know but I don't know.

 

I really just feel like such a loser for having been so naive and stupid for so many years and for not being able to feel entitled like everyone else.

 

I feel really fragile.

merrmeade---a couple weeks after I left, she called and told me I needed to get tested for chlamydia. That she had it. Yet another insult!!! I started to go to a clinic for the anonymity, yet ended up going to my regular doctor who was a friend (embarrassing as hell). Had a full work up. I was clean, but he said just to be on safe side that he was going to treat me for it anyway (a few pills--antibiotics). In addition, I had to follow up and give blood 30 days, 90 days, 6 months, and a year. Major triggers....

 

 

You may feel fragile, but it takes an extremely strong person to navigate the issues you've dealt with.

Blessings

[beach]

I was married to a narcissistic guy for 23 years.

 

Man o man I don't miss his antics.

 

It's a mind twist. It's controlling and mean.

 

I can tell you it's very freeing to break away from those twisted tendencies. He was incapable of considering how anyone else felt - unless it benefitted him directly.

 

And yes, he cheated - several times. He was never sorry he did it he was sorry he got caught. He was incapable of being sorry - and offering his truth. He wanted to rug sweep everything and always looked to blame anyone but himself. He is NEVER responsible for how he participates! He is exhausting.

 

I divorced him and have VERY little interaction with him. He still wishes we were married - he tells my kids this as well as friends. I should have left him sooner!!!

 

It was like letting go of 1,000,000,000 pounds of weight that constantly dragged me down and tried to ruin any self esteem or happiness I allowed myself.

 

He was abusive in a mean and condescending way. I sought counseling with an expert in trauma... That counselor had a profound effect on me! I found a voice and spoke my truth! I started to live again without fear. I began to take action in every area of my life. I began to live again as a free and independent and strong woman!

 

I never will allow any man to have all my power ever again.

 

 

Life is too short - if it's not his ultimate goal to make a YOU happy 24/7 then let him find a new gal to make miserable.

 

You do not need to be his willing victim!!!!

[Lion Heart]

Wow beach does that number read one thousand million?

 

So cute but so real. When my children wrote their Top 10 Things You DON'T do after YOUR affair (which got to 27 I think), they wanted to write "Say everything your family doesn't want to hear in a thousand million years". I said wouldn't just a million be ok? Or a thousand? NO IT'S MUCH LONGER THAN THAT, we mean EVER!

 

Beach I'm so happy you made the break.

I'm happy that you're happy.

It sounds like an incredible relief. You seemed a bit grey there lol.

 

I can honestly say that this thread specifically (and others less directly) PLUS the incredible knowledge I'm receiving OUTSIDE LS, yeah OPs there actually know some sh** too! Lol.

It's making SO MANY MANY THINGS come together in my head. Every day I "get it" more.

 

Today, sigh, I've been directed to prepare for more diagnoses.

BPD and / or multiple personality disorder and / or schizophrenia. I'm really not sure how things will go there. Drugs maybe but certainly as forecast a lifetime of therapy.

 

As flat as that made me feel. It all makes sense. There wasn't an OMG moment but an aha moment.

 

One thing I KNOW FOR SURE is that the psychiatrist is treading ever so lightly and now I know why. ANY diagnosis, INDEED even phoning a C for an appt was the most MASSIVE STEP WH has ever taken. WH kept on and on about how HUGE this was with "LION HEART! ! LISTEN TO ME!!! NO ONE in my family has EVER needed Counselling. I'm the FIRST person in my family to EVER get C! How do you think that makes ME FEEL????" A rhetorical question ofcourse but my answer was "Proud? You should be SO proud you're getting help. I'm so proud you are and wanted to and suggested it yourself and then WENT to the appt when EVERYONE said you wouldn't turn up. Including the psych. Be proud WH. I'm proud of you." WH just cries and cries about it. (And who could ever honestly say they didn't need C??)

 

WH family were SO INSISTENT that I'd be diagnosed crazy but when it turned out that WH had diagnosable issues, they were in disbelief. I'm NC with them all atm because of cruel and incredulous things they said to me and about MY children.

I am so certain that they do not want WH seeing ANYBODY in the psychiatric field.

In fact that thought brought to mind a convo I had with MIL after my 1st appt. Psych had remotely diagnosed WH on the spot to me. I confirmed stuff with K. She said IT ALL MAKES PERFECT SENSE now.

MIL said WH????? WH? ????? NO!!! I DON'T believe a word of it. This woman's a shonk. She doesn't know what she's talking about. WH needs to see a PROPER C. I said she's the best for 200klm. Head of Psychiatry and Psychology at (Major Area Hospital) for over a decade. 40y experience. She is NO shonk. And to think I'd trust MY H who needs help SO DESPERATELY to a shonk is not gonna happen. He needs the best and he's gonna get the best. He's been wanting to see a C for YEARS but never actually went. She calmed down then. Nowhere near happy but calm nonetheless.

 

I'm wondering now whether the R with his parents / family impacts even MORE on WH constant fluctuations of mind BECAUSE now he can't be 100% honest with them!

Part of his Personality Disorders is not being comfortable with telling the truth anyway.

 

Me (and it appears chn too since they decline any invitation to in laws atm?!? They don't know I'm NC. I just say I'm busy but they're VERY welcome to visit with WF) being NC with WH circle is actually to protect me.

There will now be weird dynamics if WH chooses never to tell them his diagnoses but if / when I do break NC wtf do I say / do?

Forever WH has told his family EVERYTHING (except 100% truth about our M) but most things, then, from our mortgage amount to how much I earn (errrk) to the number of bowel movements per week! Yes. WH used to be an alternative health therapist. So the conversations are very personal!

 

Just pondering all this.

Lion Heart.

[merrmeade]

WH family were SO INSISTENT that I'd be diagnosed crazy but when it turned out that WH had diagnosable issues, they were in disbelief.

You'll love this: Couple of days ago WH said, "Do you think it's possible you're manic-depressive?"

 

I didn't know whether to laugh or cry. First, I just stared, so he started to elaborate (in case I wasn't sure what it was) with an arm gesture moving up and down.

 

I said I know what bipolar is and that I hadn't been manic in years (if ever), just depressed. He started to scoff, but my voice was low and growly (which doesn't happen often) and I then asked if he was trying to blame everything on me. He was affected by that and said 'no.'

[Mrs. John Adams]

Merrmeade...Have you ever thought of a baseball bat to the head?

 

it might be a faster way of knocking some sense into him......

[Mazerati]

Merrmeade...Have you ever thought of a baseball bat to the head?

 

it might be a faster way of knocking some sense into him......

 

I fear that will not work. May I suggest a telephone pole?

 

Maz

 

I greatly admire the advice given to Merrmeade. How constructive and to the heart of the matter.

[Mazerati]

You'll love this: Couple of days ago WH said, "Do you think it's possible you're manic-depressive?"

 

I didn't know whether to laugh or cry. First, I just stared, so he started to elaborate (in case I wasn't sure what it was) with an arm gesture moving up and down.

 

I said I know what bipolar is and that I hadn't been manic in years (if ever), just depressed. He started to scoff, but my voice was low and growly (which doesn't happen often) and I then asked if he was trying to blame everything on me. He was affected by that and said 'no.'

 

Perhaps he should look at himself before diagnosing you. That IMHO was cold.

 

Physician, heal thyself first....

 

Maz

 

Oh, the last post I made, the postscript could be read two ways. It is meant as a compliment.

Edited April 7, 2015 by Mazerati

[aliveagain]

The real issue here is understanding what it is you have with the person you married and what your rights are. Once you know what the truth is you can decide what is best for you and your children and not just what is best for your children.

 

The first thing to remember is that being a married monogamist couple is a free and voluntary choice, it is both your choices to enter into a covenant with each other. You choose to be joined to each other for life and it is your word to each other that joins you. Many confuse the ceremony as an important part of the binding, the ceremony is only the public display of the covenant you gave to each other.

 

People get married for many reasons but the reason that motivated me was love. The advantages of doing so include:

 

. Establishing yourselves as legal parents of your offspring.

. Gives both husband and wife partial monopolistic rights to their spouses domestic and labour services.

. Gives both husband and wife monopoly in their spouses sexuality.

. Gives both husband and wife partial or total control over property belonging or potentially accruing to each spouse.

. Establishing a joint fund of property for the benefit of the children of the marriage.

 

The only difference between being married in a church or married on a beach is that one is considered to be Divinely established but both are legally recognized. When one of the spouses decides to break that covenant by being adulterous, well consideration for their spouse is out the window, they have broken their covenant with them. The contract divine or otherwise is over because their word did not stand. Regardless of your sorry a$$ excuse, you like the thrill, he/she is powerful, she had amazing breasts, he's so handsome, you were drunk, it's done, you are in breech of your contract. You can come up with all kinds of BS to cover the real problem, you. Wanting an open relationship crap that never works because now your asking your spouse to give up their monopolistic rights because of your fu*k up. Asking them to embrace polygamy to make yourself feel better because you want to continue to chase strange is further betrayal.

 

Demand your rights, fire them for betraying you, terminate the contract. Why spend years in hope they finally get it because what if they don't? You can always re marry them if they can prove to you that they fixed what was wrong and are now the person you deserve in your life. You deserve to be happy, you don't deserve to be used. Do not act out of fear because a lifetime is too long to waste.

Edited April 7, 2015 by aliveagain

[beach]

It's exhausting giving in to the demands and manipulations of a NPD - it will never be enough.

 

It will never be right. It will never keep them from needing a victim (so they don't have to blame themselves).

 

The mind twists they perform are incredible.

 

It's a sad way to live (staying with them) - you can't MAKE someone grow a conscience! They can't learn to as an adult and this is part of why they can't be rehabilitated.

 

You can't expect him to change - he's likely to stay the same.

 

Is that enough for you to stay with him?

[Lion Heart]

Merrmeade, Mrs Adams, Maz & others

 

I actually had a belly laugh at the types of equipment we may call on to get something thru to WSs. So so funny.

Yeah not. But funny. But not.

I could've used a clothes peg to do serious damage at my worst point since D Day.

 

Seriously Merrmeade there's next to no point expecting anything to get through.

 

Today I had to have a gentle convo about "honesty" with WH.

He actually said he never got it b4. I doubt he truly got it then either but I press on. As you do too.

 

Merrmeade have you ever visited chump lady? It is so funny that I cry with laughter. It's all so true!

 

To a Narcissist (oh and their family) ofcourse we've got NPD because for JUST ONCE WE are asking for something (like fidelity). Or dare we, MANY things like fidelity plus honesty plus some reasoning. Then we simply MUST be bi polar because we've been SO SAD at the knowledge we've discovered but then try to push on and find our happiness. We swing but not because of BP. Because of our reaction to the knowledge then the realization of what we now HAVE to do to escape this.

 

Lion Heart.

[beach]

I began to rationalize his ways. I began to stay quiet so I could deter any arguments. He'd end up creating an argument with himself and then blame it on my non- reaction! Lol

 

His excuses were wearing and I lost track of who I really was intended to be - until I broke free from his toxic ways.

 

 

Of course he remarried right away - he can't be by himself for one minute (must have someone else to blame).

 

I feel sorry for his current wife... It's a living hell being with him. Shame too - because he's so darn attractive - what a waste!

[Lion Heart]

I began to rationalize his ways. I began to stay quiet so I could deter any arguments. He'd end up creating an argument with himself and then blame it on my non- reaction! Lol

 

His excuses were wearing and I lost track of who I really was intended to be - until I broke free from his toxic ways.

 

 

Of course he remarried right away - he can't be by himself for one minute (must have someone else to blame).

 

I feel sorry for his current wife... It's a living hell being with him. Shame too - because he's so darn attractive - what a waste!

 

I hear you beach.

 

I left my exWH when DD was a baby. She's now 22yo with her OWN baby. This DD is amazing because I left him. I can look at exWH children he has now with present W and see how she could've turned out. OMG NO!!!! They are gloomy (sad or depressed my DD doesn't know), they're not doing well at school, they're anxious and can't look in their own sister's eyes!

She seems so happy! What a contrast!

 

ExWH present W works her butt off (as I have in this M but it's all for me and my kids now) his present W got sick of phoning the pub every day so she got a job in the pub!!! She's spiteful and mean and controlling because she's learnt to be. I've been NC for years now because they were jealous of my happiness!

 

ExWH got 100 x worse after I left him. That doesn't make me feel better but knowing I escaped it does! He's never been there for his DD because his wife is jealous of our DD!

 

ONE THING I'm grateful for this time is that this WH does seek help voluntarily. He's seeking and processing. He's making so many changes and is now trying harder in his life to make sure he gets better asap. But he's being better and kinder to us now.

 

It's just not gonna be here if he doesn't.

Lion Heart.

[merrmeade]

Wow. This is like a sleepover. Your stories just triggered another memory.

 

We were in our twenties, married a couple of years. No kids yet. I remember late-night 'discussions' because he'd been a sh-t to me at some point (verbal abuse) during the day for no discernible reason. For him, whatever it was, was done when it was done. He didn't acknowledge, didn't discuss or resolve but later was ready for sex. I couldn't. I'd felt abused and needed to talk about it, insisted on talking about it. This would go 'round 'n' 'round.

 

Then, I remember one day, standing in the street beside his truck. He was about to leave in a huff and said as he turned angrily to me, "I've never treated anyone this bad!"

[beach]

One thing my kids learned though, was to NOT stay married to someone who treats us this way.

 

There's a limit and one must be guided by their limit.

 

Staying married because everyone says you "should" doesn't cut it for me anymore!

 

I had to UNLEARN what I learned growing up. Then I had to look deep within and learn a NEW way that worked for me! Staying married to a selfish verbally abusive man wasn't cutting it in the "forever" part of my life! My rules are my conscience and I'm glad to go to bed every night knowing I no longer have to compromise my integrity in order to stay married.

 

It is a personal freedom that I can't describe - as if a huge burden was lifted.

 

 

We had such great times through the years. But the dark cloud of his core being overshadowed anything good. He would spend! He'd buy 3 pair of $300 Cole Hahn shoes and then tell me I couldn't buy groceries for 3 weeks. What a selfish a$$ he was. He'd pick a huge fight when we were ready to go to a party and then tell me to put my happy face on so we looked good to others. He always picked a fight over nothing - and looking back I think it was when he was planning to meet his OW. The fight was a smokescreen. It was sheer misery.

 

It was always about him.

Edited April 8, 2015 by beach

[merrmeade]

He actually said he never got it b4. I doubt he truly got it then either but I press on. As you do too.

This? You need to prize this and give him his due. My WH has NEVER said anything close to this, never admitted 'insight' or vulnerability. Everything is hidden and what comes out of his mouth is calculated, never spontaneous.

 

This is a kind of vulnerability that is only possible for a NPD when something really smacks them off the pedestal. I said mine experienced one of these 'life blows' but it didn't go far enough, certainly not this far.

 

Although, beware. They can talk the talk and walk the walk expected of them, too, if there's enough on the line. Be careful that he's not studying and copying vulnerability, for example, from you. I realized sadly at the end of MC, when I told him to go ahead and stop the appointments for financial reasons, that he'd been sort of conjuring up personal sadnesses so he could cry and show emotion. When I said in MC that he never showed how he felt about me or anything else, he talked about our visit with his sister who is dying and the way they communicated (without words) - so advanced, so intimate, you know. IC guy and I showed sympathy but later, I thought, "Oh, sh-t! What just happened? He still didn't say a damn thing about how he felt about me."

 

But then. Tonight. Just now. We just got back from being with our sons' families. Both wives are expecting. One grandchild already here. Being all together is better than anything. I'm not ready to make the jump that would disturb such events. WH is part of that scene.

 

And the memories like that one up there from DECADES ago? He knows. He remembers. And he knows that I know and remember. If I get too understanding and admit to too much responsibility in the chilling series of events that tumulted us to Dday and he starts talking entitlement, victimhood and blame again, it doesn't take that much to remind him of his abuses and inject reality back into the memories.

 

Also, I am NOT confused any more and cannot be confused. He does get that.

[merrmeade]

Beach, I can't make it any better than you've done. You're knocking yourself out and laying it on the line. I can't ignore it and I know it all first-hand. I've even reordered to make it more irresistible if that's possible. And yet...

It's exhausting giving in to the demands and manipulations of a NPD - it will never be enough.

 

It will never be right. It will never keep them from needing a victim (so they don't have to blame themselves).

 

The mind twists they perform are incredible.

 

We had such great times through the years. But the dark cloud of his core being overshadowed anything good. He would spend ... then tell me I couldn't buy groceries for 3 weeks. ... pick a huge fight when we were ready to go to a party and then tell me to put my happy face on so we looked good to others. He always picked a fight over nothing - and looking back I think it was when he was planning to meet his OW. The fight was a smokescreen. It was sheer misery.

 

Of course he remarried right away - he can't be by himself for one minute (must have someone else to blame). I feel sorry for his current wife... It's a living hell being with him. Shame too - because he's so darn attractive - what a waste!

 

It was always about him.

 

I began to rationalize his ways. I began to stay quiet so I could deter any arguments. He'd end up creating an argument with himself and then blame it on my non- reaction! Lol

 

His excuses were wearing and I lost track of who I really was intended to be - until I broke free from his toxic ways.

 

I had to UNLEARN what I learned growing up. Then I had to look deep within and learn a NEW way that worked for me! Staying married to a selfish verbally abusive man wasn't cutting it in the "forever" part of my life! My rules are my conscience and I'm glad to go to bed every night knowing I no longer have to compromise my integrity in order to stay married.

 

One thing my kids learned though, was to NOT stay married to someone who treats us this way.

 

There's a limit and one must be guided by their limit.

 

Staying married because everyone says you "should" doesn't cut it for me anymore!

 

It is a personal freedom that I can't describe - as if a huge burden was lifted.

 

It's a sad way to live (staying with them) - you can't MAKE someone grow a conscience! They can't learn to as an adult and this is part of why they can't be rehabilitated.

 

You can't expect him to change - he's likely to stay the same.

 

Is that enough for you to stay with him?

I don't know, beach. You make a pretty compelling case.

 

The truth? I'm lazy and unimaginative.

 

Lazy because it seems like so much work and I don't have as many years left as I used to.

 

Unimaginative because I can't see it. I can't see the beginning, middle or end well enough to feel mobilized to make it happen.

 

Maybe I'm too beaten down. Maybe too old. Maybe I don't believe in myself enough. But that's it. The fire isn't enough. I can't find the something better to aim for. Sorry but there it is.

 

Maybe Lion Heart can do something with all this true, perfect, clear and unassailable information.

[beach]

No one said you need to know. It's the unknown that finally became exciting!

 

I embraced change (which I never did before all this).

 

I started to imagine what life could look like. I drew pictures and mapped it out in my head.

 

And the world started handing it all to me! It was fantastic - miracles everywhere. No one would believe it - but it started happening when I let go and stopped hanging on to all the crap that dragged me down.

 

 

I'm sitting here, right now, on my patio with a fabulous view. I rent a room in a huge gigantic house - overlooking the expansive ocean. Literally it's the pictures I drew 7 years ago.

 

If you can dream it - you can live it.

 

Life is too short to waste time and energy allowing anyone to mistreat you. Especially someone who is supposed to love you the most.

[merrmeade]

No one said you need to know. It's the unknown that finally became exciting!

 

I embraced change (which I never did before all this).

 

I started to imagine what life could look like. I drew pictures and mapped it out in my head.

 

And the world started handing it all to me! It was fantastic - miracles everywhere. No one would believe it - but it started happening when I let go and stopped hanging on to all the crap that dragged me down.

 

 

I'm sitting here, right now, on my patio with a fabulous view. I rent a room in a huge gigantic house - overlooking the expansive ocean. Literally it's the pictures I drew 7 years ago.

 

If you can dream it - you can live it.

 

Life is too short to waste time and energy allowing anyone to mistreat you. Especially someone who is supposed to love you the most.

I'll talk about it at IC. I like the "mapping" part - drawing the pictures, allowing yourself to dream. It's true. I just don't dream any more.

[beach]

Ya gotta dream Merm! It's part of living.

 

What are you afraid of? Are you afraid you might actually find out how to be happy?

 

You deserve to be happy!

[beach]

If you don't believe in yourself (as you stated) then who's going to?

[merrmeade]

If you don't believe in yourself (as you stated) then who's going to?

Nobody. So be it.