What is he hiding NOW!?!?!?

[GirlDown]

Originally posted by Monday

 

He said, "You mean why am I acting grouchy!?" I said, "Yes!!" He said, "NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!"

 

Then he calmed down and said, "It's ALWAYS either you or work, and you know it's not you, so what is it?" I said, "Work." He said, "Duh!"

 

Well, this isn't how he usually acts when work is bugging him...this is how he acts when he's hiding something.

 

 

the he is definitely hiding something, you know the signs better than we do.

 

and notice how heavoided just saying "work is bothering me"...by making you guess? that's because in his head he can say to himself that he didn't outright lie, he just said "duh."

 

what a dork. he sounds very immature. you should leave him, but you already know this.

 

unless you're a glutton for punishment, in that case, stay with him forever, and you'll be happy with the shi*tty way he treats you.

[Tamed Wildflower]

Monday, may I ask what attracts you to this man? What you love about him?

 

There are obviously a lot of problems in this relationship, a lot of bad feelings, and frustration.

 

Yet it appears that you love him and want to be with him, so there must be some wonderful elements to this marriage.

 

Can you tell us about that? Why you were attracted to this man when you met him? Why you fell in love with him? Decided to marry him? And what are the wonderful things that make you want to stay despite all the frustration and lies?

[SadAndLonely]

I've commented several times that Monday is with an abusive man. I don't know why the porn issue keeps coming up, since I don't believe that this has to do with porn at all. She won't get help, she won't leave...there's really no advice anyone can give her that she hasn't heard already. At this point she's the only one who can act. To be honest, I wouldn't have let someone treat me like this for so long. I don't think counseling can cure everything. Some people will always be abusive. Since there are no children and both people in the marriage are fairly young, I'd tell them to get divorced. But then, it's not my decision.

 

No, I don't believe all marriages are worth saving and working on. Not when it comes to abuse.

[JadeStar]

I hate to say this, but some people live for drama in their lives. They will B*tch and complain how crappy things are in their life, this is happening, thats happening etc, but never really does anything about it. They say they will but don't. Be it that it they are lazy, or use too it and think that this is the way their life is suppossed to be, hell I don't know. I just think some people feel that if they didn't have the drama in their life, they wouldn't have nothing at all. Its sad, but maybe its like that for some people.

 

 

 

Jade

[Ladyjane14]

Maybe Monday has just never experienced really good treatment from a man. (????)

 

I had alot of boyfriends in my youth. Unfortunately in some of those interactions....I was the only one having a "relationship". They were just having an occasional sex partner.

 

Not to say that they were ALL losers....some were very nice. But the ones who weren't nice....made it all very confusing for a girl.

 

I have to imagine, that if I'd never met my own sweetie....I might not have known the difference for quite some time. What might my life have been like then? If I'd have married one of the disrespectful ones...I might never have known the difference at all.

[moimeme]

There's a theory that there are several love 'styles' and that it's best to try to find someone who matches your 'style'. So there are people who go for companionate love, others who look for pragmatic relationships, others that need 'excitement', etc. And, of course, combinations. However that some people do seem to need some sort of conflict is a known relationship style.

 

For instance, people who only ever got attention when they complained about things can develop a victim complex where they constantly complain about how they've been hard done by to get sympathy and attention. If they were to fix the problems, that would leave them no means of getting attention. There is, therefore, zero motivation to deal with the issues.

[SadAndLonely]

Then why do we all keep replying to Monday's posts? Maybe if we stopped, she'd stop. I don't know. I just think it's ridiculous to keep posting about the same behavior repeatedly, and get the same responses, and then not do anything.

 

I don't feel sorry for people who stay in bad situations. If you want to change your situation badly enough, you'll find a way to do it.

[Tamed Wildflower]

I really disagree with Jade's guess that Monday enjoys having drama to b*tch about. Perhaps it is true for some people, but I don't think it is so for Monday.

 

Our friend is in a rough marriage with someone she probably loves. There are issues of power, control, lack of respect on his part for her, but there are also, I would guess, some warm moments, some moments of shared laughter, good sex, and some degree of happiness. From her posts, it seems that there is more frustration and indignity than happiness, but only she can really assess that for herself.

 

In almost all romantic relationships, and certainly in all good ones, there is a feeling of attachment between the two people. If a person has to be away from their partner, if one is abandoned, or if, G-d forbid, one's partner dies, there is that feeling of having lost a part of oneself-- that feeling like a limb is gone, or like you're a shadow of a person because you've lost your other half. This is true for abusive romantic partnerships at least as much as it is true for wholly fulfilling egalitarian relationships. I also think that in some really abusive relationships, the feeling goes beyond attachment to a kind of total emotional and psychological dependence, where, much as the person knows that they are in a horrible situation and should get out, the utter emptiness and, hmm... personlessness? (feeling like they are no one, not a human being, a void inside a body), feels more jarring and awful to the person than the most horrific abuse. It doesn't seem to me that Monday's relationship is quite as bad as that, but as with all relationships, breaking up is hard to do (isn't that a song in the musical Grease??), because there is always a feeling of loss even if we know we're better off without the person in the long run.

 

I truly don't think that Monday enjoys her husband's a$$-holish behavior, or that she wants it to continue so that she can have some drama to gripe about. My guess is that nothing would make her happier than for the drama to end, so that she can truly have a fulfilling relationship with this man that she fell in love with, a relationship that is not blighted by her husband's deceit, condescension, contempt, or emotional violence. Whether or not it is possible for this man to be part of the kind of relationship Monday wants, I am truly not sure.

 

I am going to guess, too, that the thought of leaving the relationship has entered her mind, though she might not be considering it seriously. There are a lot of reasons why she might not want to consider it, not least of which is that she probably loves the man. Beyond that, as I've said above, leaving any romantic relationship is painful, no matter how problem-ridden it might be. Divorce often brings some insecurity and loneliness. It sometimes makes people feel like they have failed at something, though I don't think that is the best way to look at it. Often, marriage is, in part at least, a display of social respectability, which raises the question-- what will people think if we get divorced?? Sometimes, marriage is a bit of an obligation one fulfills for one's parents, which could raise the question-- what will Mom think if I get divorced??? Lastly, of course, even very troubled marriages are rarely nothing but trouble; they almost always have their happy moments. These are the kinds of tough issues Monday would have to face if she were to seriously consider divorce, and it is up to her to decide whether she wants to do that.

 

As far as why Monday posts her difficulties with her husband on this board, I think she comes to the posts here to have someone to talk to about all this, to give voice to her frustration and hurt. Sometimes ya just gotta vent, right? She might consider divorce someday, if she is ready to, but for now, I don't think she needs our condescension, judgment, or lectures. I think she needs our understanding, validation of her feelings, and perhaps sometimes our analysis of the dynamics of the relationship, maybe even our advice, short of advising her to leave.

 

As I write this, I am reminded of Midori's post about advising someone who says they need to cross the Atlantic Ocean but absolutely will not take a plane even though the only alternative to flying (taking a boat) is really problematic too: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?postid=382293#post382293. I don't think that it is helpful to say something like "I just can't understand these people who complain about bad situations but don't leave. I feel sorry for them." I think that anyone who comes to Loveshack to discuss their problems deserves some sympathy and understanding, and I do think that being told, "I just can't understand you," is mildly injurious. Telling someone they are ridiculous is also a bit of an affront to dignity. Pity too is a form of condescension, and no one needs that. (Compassion and pity are VERY different sentiments, by the way.) We all get ourselves in situations and relationships that aren't exactly great from time to time. In my view, when Loveshack is at its best, it is what I've heard called a "safe space", which I understand to be a place where we can be free to be ourselves, even when we need to talk about our most private problems, a place where we can find acceptance, even when we reveal our weak, mean, or selfish sides. (At this point I am speaking generally, I am not by any means characterizing Monday herself as weak, mean, or selfish.)

 

So let's just be supportive listeners, good sounding boards, analysts, and perhaps occasional advisors. Let's allow Loveshack to be her safe space.

 

 

Monday, your response is welcome if you'd like to comment on what I've said, tell me I'm wrong, or ask for something more. ~TW

[faux]

I can see that I need to carefully choose my words here, so as to actually get a point across to you:

 

You have issues. Porn is not the issue here. You have written a multitude of posts which are all hauntingly similar, all complaining about porn and your husband; I have read nearly all of them. It does not seem that you wish to try to remedy the situation; you would rather scapegoat your husband and blame him for everything that is wrong.

 

Look at yourself.

 

Do something to make a change or end the marriage.

 

This reminds me of my father's alcoholism; he will never admit that he has a problem, or that he has ever done anything wrong.

[Tamed Wildflower]

Originally posted by faux

You have issues. Porn is not the issue here. You have written a multitude of posts which are all hauntingly similar, all complaining about porn and your husband; I have read nearly all of them. It does not seem that you wish to try to remedy the situation; you would rather scapegoat your husband and blame him for everything that is wrong.

 

I don't think she is scapegoating her husband. There may be multiple issues in the relationship, but certainly porn is one of them-- her husband wants to watch it, this is really hurtful to her, he doesn't seem to care, he treats her contemptuously whenever he does manage to get a hold of some more porn, this hurts her more-- certainly porn is an issue in their marriage, even though it seems to be bound up with other issues-- miscommunication, disrespect, insecurity, maybe, I am not sure what else...

[moimeme]

I truly don't think that Monday enjoys her husband's a$$-holish behavior, or that she wants it to continue so that she can have some drama to gripe about

 

People engaged in dysfunctional or self-defeating behaviours do not do so willingly. They don't think to themselves, for instance, 'oh dear, I'm not getting enough attention - time to create a crisis'. It's subconscious.

 

I think that anyone who comes to Loveshack to discuss their problems deserves some sympathy and understanding, and I do think that being told, "I just can't understand you," is mildly injurious. Telling someone they are ridiculous is also a bit of an affront to dignity. Pity too is a form of condescension, and no one needs that.

 

Some people engineer their own destruction and others participate in it by seeking no assistance. In this case, Monday has been advised repeatedly to seek counselling and, if memory serves, has always had some excuse for not doing so. Her husband has his own issues; he was abused as a child. This doesn't excuse his behaviour but it can explain some of it. Like her, he refuses treatment. So, at minimum, if she wants to stay with this man, she needs to learn how to deal with his behaviour. People who have had dysfunctional lives will act out more than most; so if you are bound and determined to stay with one, you need to manage to distance yourself from the acting out as well as to learn ways to cope with the whole situation. But she hasn't and won't do that either.

 

Sympathy doesn't help everyone. Sometimes people need to have their own part in their problems pointed out to them. Every now and then, this will cause some of them to change so that they no longer contribute to their own distress. However we often also have situations where people continue doing the same things and thinking the same things and remaining miserable because of it no matter how much advice they get. And all the sympathy in the world won't help. Again, TW, you're a newbie. Monday's been here a long time. In a year or two, you may feel differently about this situation.

[GirlDown]

Originally posted by moimeme

 

 

People engaged in dysfunctional or self-defeating behaviours do not do so willingly. They don't think to themselves, for instance, 'oh dear, I'm not getting enough attention - time to create a crisis'. It's subconscious.

 

 

 

actually, some people do think "time to create a crisis..."

 

maybe not Monday's situation, but munchausen's syndrom people do it...isn't that weird how some people's minds work?

 

psychology is fascinating...maybe i should have studied that in college...guess it's not too late, seeing as i'm still there...and will probably always be...

 

[Tamed Wildflower]

Originally posted by moimeme

Sympathy doesn't help everyone. Sometimes people need to have their own part in their problems pointed out to them. Every now and then, this will cause some of them to change so that they no longer contribute to their own distress. However we often also have situations where people continue doing the same things and thinking the same things and remaining miserable because of it no matter how much advice they get. And all the sympathy in the world won't help. Again, TW, you're a newbie. Monday's been here a long time. In a year or two, you may feel differently about this situation.

 

I may be a newbie to Loveshack, but I'm not entirely a newbie to life (though I am young), and I do pick up on things quickly. I have read many of Monday's posts, not only the ones since I have been here. I see that these problems are ongoing. I realize that sometimes people need to have their own part in their problems (sensitively) pointed out to them. Pointing out where people contribute to their unhappy situations does not preclude sympathy. I just don't think it's helpful to say things like, "Well, we keep giving you advice and you won't use it so you must just want to be treated like that and there is nothing more we can do for you here so I don't know why you keep posting." This says, "I don't want to listen and I can't do anything for you," to someone who--for whatever reason--still feels the need to come to LoveShack to talk about her frustrations even when she doesn't take much of the advice she gets. As far as I am concerned, she is welcome to come and talk (or type) here; whether or not she takes our advice, I think we should be here to listen. She's heard many of us (myself included) tell her that this relationship is abusive, that she should get counseling, or leave. My guess is that Lucrezia was more on target than Monday would own when she said that Monday doesn't come back to these threads once this kind of advice is stated precisely because this isn't what she wants to hear. She knows we think she should get help or leave, but she doesn't want to or isn't ready to do that. I'm trying to figure out what she actually does need from us right now. I don't necessarily think we should stop advising her to get help or leave, but I do think that we could be better listeners, that she perhaps might be more receptive to advice if her frustrations were met with a little more sympathy and understanding first and foremost.

[moimeme]

Well, we keep giving you advice and you won't use it so you must just want to be treated like that and there is nothing more we can do for you here so I don't know why you keep posting." This says, "I don't want to listen and I can't do anything for you," to someone who needs to talk.

 

Not necessarily. It can also be the conversational equivalent of a splash of cold water. Sometimes taking that sort of extreme position jolts a person into realization. That's the Dr. Phil 'tough love' approach. There's all kinds of ways to reach someone; LS is useful because threads like this will end up wth several different approaches - and maybe one of these days, one of them will hit the mark and the person will be helped.

 

If you've read all the threads, then you'll see there's been no shortage of sympathy. In another Dr. Philism, 'how's that working for ya'?

 

There's all kinds of ways to reach someone; LS is useful because threads like this will end up wth several different approaches - and maybe one of these days, one of them will hit the mark and the person will be helped.

[Mz. Pixie]

Tamed-

 

I certainly do not mind giving people advise when they are asking for help-truly want it and need it. It's just that her posts have gotten repetitive-ten times over. I don't get the impression either that LS is her only outlet. I saw a post the other day where she said that all of her coworkers know about her husband because she talks about him constantly there. I'm sure she does.

 

It's kind of like the boy that cried wolf. She comes here and complains about how badly he treats her, then refuses to do something about it. There's even a post from somewhere over the weekend where she is talking about how he makes her perform oral on him and never gets anything in return. After a while, all you hear is blah, blah, blah, blah.

 

Sure, I could just not read any threads that she starts and perhaps I will do that and not make comments. Yet, it's almost like a train wreck- you don't want to look but then again you're curious. I'm always curious to read what the latest drama is or just how far he's gone this time and gotten away with it?? It would be almost comical except for the fact that she's so miserable.

 

She's a really cute girl too. I wouldn't care if he was Adonis with a 10 inch unit he would be out the door so fast his head would spin.

[JadeStar]

Tamed, my reply was just what you said "a guess". I never said thats the way Mondays life was, I was meaning it can be like that for some people.

 

 

 

Jade

[Tamed Wildflower]

Hi Jade-- yeah, I didn't mean to say it was more than a guess. My long reply was mostly guesses too. Your guess is as good as mine, or Moimeme's, or Lucrezia's, or LadyJane's. Though I think we all want to be here for her, we're all a little puzzled as to how, beyond saying what has already been said. So we're all guessing. Mz. Pixie, I see your frustration-- how exactly posts like that affect Monday, I can't really be sure. Perhaps Moimeme is right-- it's a splash of cold water. I don't know.

 

I wouldn't mind if Monday would come back to this thread and post some thoughts that would give us more clues than her venting monologues do....

[Mz. Pixie]

Tamed,

 

It obviously doesn't bother her, she keeps doing it.

 

I wouldn't mind if perhaps we could get some ideas as to WHY she still loves this guy? We've asked but we've never been told. What are his good qualities??

 

She doesn't come back and post usually after the fact.

 

Another part of my frustration is that heck, I left my exh for less than this. Life is just too short to be that unhappy. Dang, if I had to worry about all of that, I'd never get anything else done. I just don't "get it" on a deep level as to why someone puts up with this stuff.