4 year relationship done

[ravfour4]

Some progress:

-Came home, something was wrong with dog, asked ex if anything happened today, brought him to vet.

-She texted, called, texted, called, said she was on her way. I told her things ended up being ok, she called, I called back.

-Talked calmly about the dog situation, she asked what other couples do - I said they let one person keep the dog. Calmly tried to explain that we need to cut all ties, then she can go live her life with new friends, bf etc. (she goes "I don't have a new bf"....HA). She was receptive, but angry at times. I said think about it multiple times, it will be better for all of us. I stayed calm and she seemed to overall agree. She agreed it's weird that she still has keys and will give them back.

-She gets all mad and says she has to go because someone stole her wallet. I smile and hang up. She apologizes via text, says she has other stressful things going on today too, not just with the dog. I obviously will not reply.

 

She's watching him this weekend, then hopefully we can come to this agreement and I will NEVER talk to her again.

 

Thanks again Simon for opening my eyes to how terrible she was. I was riding the high of her attention blindly for too long. It's all so clear now and I'm so excited to cut ties for good.

[Simon Phoenix]

Sounds like that was a positive conversation. Just one loose end to tie up before the two of your split off into your own lives. It will be best for both of you, but most importantly you, when this happens. The next step is key -- finish the dog partnership, get the keys. And I'd call your landlord up about what you need to do to take her off the lease in case she "forgets" to give you keys back so you can change the locks without getting into trouble. Hopefully it won't come to that, but it's best to be prepared for all scenarios.

[ravfour4]

We're going to talk in person on Sunday when she drops my dog back off. I hope it is our last conversation ever, I will not eat any bread crumbs, but I do hope to see a bit of humanity in her instead of the devil I've been seeing.

 

Plan to say

-The past few months have been beyond crazy don't you think? I can see things so much more clearly now. Glad we broke up despite the way it ended being far from ideal. Thanks for the dog. Hope you have a decent life. See yah.

-I'd like her to just agree, maybe apologize and/or show some guilt and then return my see yah for good and hand me my keys.

[Simon Phoenix]

We're going to talk in person on Sunday when she drops my dog back off. I hope it is our last conversation ever, I will not eat any bread crumbs, but I do hope to see a bit of humanity in her instead of the devil I've been seeing.

 

Plan to say

-The past few months have been beyond crazy don't you think? I can see things so much more clearly now. Glad we broke up despite the way it ended being far from ideal. Thanks for the dog. Hope you have a decent life. See yah.

-I'd like her to just agree, maybe apologize and/or show some guilt and then return my see yah for good and hand me my keys.

 

Just get the keys and the dog. The rest of that is completely unnecessary and just a bridge you're constructing for yourself to keep yourself in contact. All business, that's it.

[ravfour4]

You're prob right. I just want her to snap out of this, be normal again, feel some guilt and apologize. It'd help me appreciate the 4 years we did have together instead of just dismissing it all.

[Simon Phoenix]

You're prob right. I just want her to snap out of this, be normal again, feel some guilt and apologize. It'd help me appreciate the 4 years we did have together instead of just dismissing it all.

 

That's out of your control. And just because she was a dick at the end doesn't mean that the four years were wasted. It's a chapter in your life that will help further build you as a person.

[ravfour4]

Coming through to vent, having one of those not so great days. I'm in another state with some great college friends including the friend I met my ex through. I still vividly remember telling him how much I loved her and how grateful I was to have been introduced.

 

He of course wanted to hear what happened, and as I explained the story with my now much more logical point of view, I once again realized how ridiculous it is and how her actions just don't make sense. He agreed. That's the one thought that keeps bringing me back - she's always been so emotionally unstable, was on antianxiety medications, rarely understood why she did what she did what she did and had a bad temper and a history involving a physically and scary abusive relationship.

 

While these are all reasons I should be done with her for good, they're also the reasons that make me feel like she didn't understand what she did to me or why she's doing it and if I can just get her to confide in me again, shed understand what happened to us and that I truly can be the guy she first met and we could be super happy together. She just seems like she has a huge mental shield up and refuses to reflect on what she's doing. I'm not going to reach out or anything, just wanted to vent the other side of the situation, the part of me that loves her more than I have in months....the part of me that wants to save her from all the mistakes she's making knowing that she was sad in the relationship partially because of my actions and being scared to commit to a house and partially because of her crazy defense mechanisms and lack of introspection

[BC1980]

You're prob right. I just want her to snap out of this, be normal again, feel some guilt and apologize. It'd help me appreciate the 4 years we did have together instead of just dismissing it all.

 

You can't control how she feels. You can't' control what she does. You can't say certain things or act a certain way to instigate an apology, ect. Trying to do so would drive you insane. The only thing you can do is cut all ties and move one. Don't discuss anything other than business when you see her.

[BC1980]

That's the one thought that keeps bringing me back - she's always been so emotionally unstable, was on antianxiety medications, rarely understood why she did what she did what she did and had a bad temper and a history involving a physically and scary abusive relationship.

 

While these are all reasons I should be done with her for good, they're also the reasons that make me feel like she didn't understand what she did to me or why she's doing it and if I can just get her to confide in me again, shed understand what happened to us and that I truly can be the guy she first met and we could be super happy together. She just seems like she has a huge mental shield up and refuses to reflect on what she's doing.

 

If she's that unstable, then it's not really a surprise she's acting the way she is. She might feel one way at any certain time, but is changes quickly. The problem is that you don't see life that way, so you take her at face value. You are attempting to align her actions with your line of thinking, and it doesn't work like that. If she is as you describe, then I have to question how much you should have ever invested in her love for you. You probably made the classic mistake so many of us make. A person will change for us because they love us more or we are special. That theory usually never holds true.

[No Limit]

And because she's unstable, she acts without logic. That's really all the explanation there is.

[ravfour4]

That's a good point BC. Its almost like she put her crazy self on hold for me for the 4 years we were together. Her current actions are much more in line with her behavior prior to our relationship, before I ever knew her.

 

We'll see how this talk goes tomorrow, its mainly to finalize things with the dog, I'm sure saying nice things or approaching the topic of our relationship would lead to very bad things, so I'll avoid that, but I may say some final words before I go NC for good. I'll let yah know.

[Simon Phoenix]

That's a good point BC. Its almost like she put her crazy self on hold for me for the 4 years we were together. Her current actions are much more in line with her behavior prior to our relationship, before I ever knew her.

 

We'll see how this talk goes tomorrow, its mainly to finalize things with the dog, I'm sure saying nice things or approaching the topic of our relationship would lead to very bad things, so I'll avoid that, but I may say some final words before I go NC for good. I'll let yah know.

 

Dude, you need to treat this as a business transaction. Get your dog, get your keys, then end. No final speeches.

[ravfour4]

I think I'd regret not giving it one last chance more than potentially being all sad for a day or two if she tears me apart though? I'll only do it if she seems open and receptive, if she's closed off and cold, I will not humiliate myself by sharing my feelings.

[Simon Phoenix]

I think I'd regret not giving it one last chance more than potentially being all sad for a day or two if she tears me apart though? I'll only do it if she seems open and receptive, if she's closed off and cold, I will not humiliate myself by sharing my feelings.

 

Last chance at what? A relationship? That'd be insane considering the current circumstances. I mean, you have to stop trying to create lifelines. Get your dog and keys and recover from this -- don't double down on dumb.

 

I mean, SHE BROKE UP WITH YOU!!!!!!! For another guy that was MARRIED!!! And you are going to give a speech asking her for another chance? C'mon dude, don't be nutless.

[ravfour4]

I know I know, I just think I understand the root cause of the breakup now and that was largely on me. The changes she wanted are the same changes I wanted for myself and are in line with and not contrary to who I am (aka its not just a temporary fix that I'll revert later).

 

I guess most people would say that even if that's true, its too late, she already betrayed my trust at a whole nother level and I should never forgive her or care to have her back. I just feel badly about the root cause....me slacking off and being distant and rude to her more often than being myself, when inside I loved her the whole time.

[Simon Phoenix]

I know I know, I just think I understand the root cause of the breakup now and that was largely on me. The changes she wanted are the same changes I wanted for myself and are in line with and not contrary to who I am (aka its not just a temporary fix that I'll revert later).

 

I guess most people would say that even if that's true, its too late, she already betrayed my trust at a whole nother level and I should never forgive her or care to have her back. I just feel badly about the root cause....me slacking off and being distant and rude to her more often than being myself, when inside I loved her the whole time.

 

Yes, instead of working with you and communicating with you, she decided to try to f*ck a married co-worker. I mean, if you're really going in there to try to suck up to her and get her to take you back after she betrayed your trust, you're a fool. Pure and simple. Even with that said, it hasn't been long enough for these "changes" to have completely sunk in. Your changes so far have been knee-jerk changes to try to put on a front when you were in constant contact.

 

I mean, dude, do I really need to beat you over the head with a crowbar right now? This is such a terrible idea on every level.

[ravfour4]

Last night my friend told me he had talked to my ex's best friend at a bar and she claimed the reason for the break up was that my ex gave me her heart and soul and I didn't love her back as much and wasn't as committed to the relationship. That's just untrue, but I see how my actions said otherwise, I want her to know that I'm sorry for that and for making her feel unwanted, I still love her and after hearing that from her friend, it doesn't sound like she knows or believes that.

[Simon Phoenix]

Last night my friend told me he had talked to my ex's best friend at a bar and she claimed the reason for the break up was that my ex gave me her heart and soul and I didn't love her back as much and wasn't as committed to the relationship. That's just untrue, but I see how my actions said otherwise, I want her to know that I'm sorry for that and for making her feel unwanted, I still love her and after hearing that from her friend, it doesn't sound like she knows or believes that.

 

Dude, just no. It's not like she broke up with you out of sadness and sorted things out and met someone down the road -- she, at the very least, had an emotional affair with someone else! This is such a dreadfully horrible horrible horrible mindset you have right now. You seem determined to cut off your nuts and hand them to her.

 

Best of luck, because you're gonna need it.

[ravfour4]

Alright, so the convo went down. Here's what happened:

-As a reminder, she broke up with me after I was distant with her for a few months and a bit of a jerk. I always loved her and I let work/family stress and smoking get to me and just kind of shut down. I hated the way I was and wanted to change back to my "old" self, she didn't think I was capable. Since the break-up, I've been focusing on myself, have lost weight, quit smoking weed, have been much more social, work out frequently and overall feel like my caring nice self again. This is a permanent change I wanted to make, not a temporary one to get her back.

-She pointed out I was looking good and implied I must be doing it for someone new. I told her that I did it for myself, I always wanted to and I'm sorry I didn't sooner in the relationship. This led into me saying "if we put the past 3 months aside, I'm really sorry for the way I treated you at the end. After being away from you now for a few weeks and broken up for 3 months, I realize how much I really love and care about you, I always did, but I should have always showed you and not taken you for granted". She saw the changes I have made and cried saying "how come this couldn't have happened in the relationship, was I being mean too?"

-I expected to get denied, but instead she broke down crying. Saying how she hated what happened to us, what she did to me and her current life and that she stills loves me. She started mentioning getting back together and the logistics ("it'd be weird being around your mom", "I'd need to make this other guy sad") and was being flirty.

-I said she'd obviously need to end things with that other guy (that she obviously doesn't care that much for and she admitted to migrating her feelings from me to him) and then we could just take it slow and see how it goes.

-She said she needed to think about it (yes, I know, not a great sign) and would let me know in a few days, but was getting excited about the potential (us having kids and having the future she wanted for us) I could tell.

 

 

I know you all think I was dumb for having this conversation, but things finally make sense now, I knew she still cared about me deep down and wanted us to work out, but fled when the going got tough and used her anger to move on quickly. I knew those feelings were still there despite her denying it.

 

In a few days, I imagine I'll hear a "ok, let's give this a shot" and we'll see how it goes. I think I'd know instantly if it took a turn for the worse or was heading back to where we were and would abort ship immediately, otherwise it'd be obvious if it was going well OR I'll hear a "No, I like this other guy more", which while devastating will shut that last open door that I KNEW was there, finally allowing me to move on.

Edited April 26, 2015 by ravfour4

[Simon Phoenix]

http://oi25.tinypic.com/5zjgp0.jpg

 

Hopefully she says no because if not, this is a car crash waiting to happen. Not to mention the cheating, I don't think the two of you have been apart long enough for any longterm meaningful change in your dynamic to happen. I know I'm being a Debbie Downer, but your head is so far in the clouds right now and has been from the jump. I'm glad she's "thinking about it" because I don't really think you have.

Edited April 26, 2015 by Simon Phoenix

[ravfour4]

I have put a lot of thought into it though. I realized that I mistreated her at the end of our relationship and that's why she reached out for someone else. I realized that even though I'd be fine on my own and could meet someone else, that I sincerely love her and always did despite these past few crazy months. That I couldn't give up on her until that final door was shut, I cared for her that much and understood the mistakes I made.

 

The changes she wanted are the same changes I desperately wanted for myself and have since made, I wouldn't take her for granted if given a second chance, I'd make her my top priority and wouldn't be ok with her not being happy thinking "it will just work itself out, we're going to be together forever anyways". She brought up getting back together after I mentioned still have feelings for her and I wasn't pushing her for it, I want her to make the right decision and not just get back with me because it's "easy" or more appealing for the wrong reasons (i.e. any reason other than she loves me and sincerely wants to give it another chance). The fact we were both smoking weed together almost everyday also played a big role in our break-up and we are both completely done with that now, another dynamic which has since changed.

 

I could forgive her for her actions if she could forgive me for how I treated her at the end and I think if given the opportunity and willingness on her end, we'd become a much stronger couple. I feel like she is unfortunately mainly thinking about having to end things with this other guy...but I think the fact she's even considering getting back with me shows her feelings for him aren't all that serious. I needed to give it this last shot recognizing that there was a reason behind her actions and despite relationships being a 2-way thing, I do take responsibility for letting the relationship fade so much at the end. I would have regretted not giving it my all.

Edited April 27, 2015 by ravfour4

[Simon Phoenix]

I'm sorry dude, I just don't think you had enough time away from each other to really have any changes register. All of this is knee-jerk stuff -- like going on a crash diet. Eventually you're just going to overeat again. It's one thing to identify what's wrong. Fat people know they are fat. But it takes time and effort to correct that wrong. I just don't see it dude. This is putting lipstick on a pig. And nothing you did excuses her cheating on you, because she basically did. The fact that you are trying to clumsily sweep that under the rug is problematic.

[ravfour4]

I'll let you know how it goes man, I appreciate your honesty, but we did have 3 months apart (2 of which we lived together) and a lot of crazyness go down during that time period. I sincerely feel like I understand what went wrong and that I'd do everything in my power to prevent that from happening again (us just being lazy, not going on dates or being romantic) after making that mistake the first time. I just assumed since we loved each other so much that I didn't need to put much/any effort in anymore, that was a very stupid assumption.

 

I'm sort of brushing that other dude under the rug as - "I realize now how distant I was from you and how that made you feel really alone/sad and reach out to someone else for support". Maybe I'ma lil bitch for doing that, but she didn't do it for no reason. Sure it was impulsive and not ideal, but she wouldn't have done it had I given her a quarter of the attention I used to and that she deserves. I truly felt like what we had for 3.5 years was a mature love-filled relationship that never had any major conflicts, but we could have used better communication (I kept asking her what was wrong, but she "didn't know", but it should have been blatantly obvious to me had I cared more and not been smoking all the time).

[Simon Phoenix]

I'll let you know how it goes man, I appreciate your honesty, but we did have 3 months apart (2 of which we lived together) and a lot of crazyness go down during that time period. I sincerely feel like I understand what went wrong and that I'd do everything in my power to prevent that from happening again (us just being lazy, not going on dates or being romantic) after making that mistake the first time. I just assumed since we loved each other so much that I didn't need to put much/any effort in anymore, that was a very stupid assumption.

 

I'm sort of brushing that other dude under the rug as - "I realize now how distant I was from you and how that made you feel really alone/sad and reach out to someone else for support". Maybe I'ma lil bitch for doing that, but she didn't do it for no reason. Sure it was impulsive and not ideal, but she wouldn't have done it had I given her a quarter of the attention I used to and that she deserves. I truly felt like what we had for 3.5 years was a mature love-filled relationship that never had any major conflicts, but we could have used better communication (I kept asking her what was wrong, but she "didn't know", but it should have been blatantly obvious to me had I cared more and not been smoking all the time).

 

When I say apart, I mean apart with no communication. You haven't been apart at all. And yes, the fact that you are brushing cheating under the rug makes you look extremely spineless. No matter how much you took her for granted, she stabbed you in the back. Instead of talking with you, she decided to avoid the question and cheat on you. And you are excusing that.

 

Like I said, I hope she saves you from yourself and decides not to come back, because this is f--ked up. You are in a delusional la-la land, but I'm just going to shut up and let you do your thing. I hope I'm wrong, but if I were her my respect for you would be pretty low.

[ravfour4]

Wow...I guess I should have listened to you. I left her a nice note today and she called me and said she wanted to give us a chance and needed to call and break-up with the other guy and asked for advice on how to do it. I said just tell him you have feelings for your ex and can't do it anymore. She called him, then he was like "I'm coming over" and kept bashing me and saying how he'd never give up on her. She said it didn't matter and that she still cared about me.

 

She came over to hang out later and he was texting and calling her the entire time and she kept saying "we're done" etc. She was super excited about going on a date with me and the potential of us getting back together, having kids etc. but I could tell she wasn't cool with cutting this guy off 100% with something more stern like "stop talking to me".

 

She was confident she wanted to give us another chance, but scared it might not work and afraid to cut all ties with this guy. Obviously a terrible sign. We texted back and forth a bit about Friday and then I called her to say, are you sure you're committed to giving this a shot? I don't want to get hurt again and you seem confused. She's like I still need to think about it today has just been too crazy....then on the phone told me the guy just showed up at her house unannounced after she told him not to come, sounded scared and told me she needed to go take care of it and hung up....

 

Wow...while I may have been ready to give this my all, she certainly isn't, she has no idea what she wants or why she wants it and is about to **** up everything.

Edited April 28, 2015 by ravfour4