Can't take the fakeness of OLD

[carhill]

Yes - I won't date a man without at least a college degree and stable employment. That's hardly asking for a 10

IMO, that's a realistic preference and one I banged up against a lot in my 30's, since I didn't have a degree and ran my own business so was unemployed and without easily quantifiable financial and social status absent my business and real estate holdings.

 

However, at least back then, with OLD, and the commercial internet being very new, generally it was educated and financially stable people who were using it so I was exposed to a wider audience of degree holders and gainfully employed women and, with wider exposure, especially outside my local demographic, success improved. So, in that sense, OLD was a game-maker and not fake at all. Of course, times and use of the internet and OLD changed. That's how it goes.

 

If you don't want to date guys without a verifiable degree and employment, stick to your guns. There's a subset of men out there who will date you and meet your preferences. All you need is one.

[Woggle]

I am educated but 90% of what I learned in life was outside of a classroom. Some people say they are not money motivated but that is easy to say when you have never had to financially struggle or you never had to hustle to pull yourself out of poverty. I am not materialistic either but without money in this world you are up a creek.

[Anela]

What does "academic person" mean? Does she work for a college or university?

 

Your post implies a man without a degree couldn't be capable of "valuing" her?

 

???

 

She wants someone who also values education. I am not well-educated, and there are men who are looking for women who are. It isn't just ES.

[NGC1300]

She wants someone who also values education. I am not well-educated, and there are men who are looking for women who are. It isn't just ES.

 

As I said earlier, being educated isn't synonymous with having a degree.

 

But some do think that way, I guess.

[Weezy1973]

As I said earlier, being educated isn't synonymous with having a degree.

 

But some do think that way, I guess.

 

But having a university education = having a university education. People who value university educations are going to get along better with other people who value university educations. And those that don't, will get along better with others that don't. Common sense I think.

 

That being said, I think it's putting he cart before the horse to specify that you will ONLY date people with a certain level of education. Wanting someone who you connect with and who you share similar values with is very important, and chances are good that they will end up with a similar educational background as you. But not necessarily.

[Weezy1973]

I don't think this is a problem, if education is your one big "must have" beyond good relationship qualities.

 

Education + hot enough to impress your friends is a totally different story.

 

What I actually find interesting is how people who struggle mightily with finding quality relationships (like ES and Leigh) post as if they have some sort of knowledge about relationships that most people don't. And because of this knowledge, they remain single, on purpose. Because being single is way better than being in a bad relationship.

 

But that's just a false dichotomy. Your goal should be to get into a good relationship. That's actually a great option that you don't seem to mention.

 

OP, if you want to be in a good relationship, what types of qualities in a man should you be looking for? If you don't know (and history shows that you don't), you can look it up in peer reviewed journals. Not joking. There's a lot of research on this. Just beware, that it will likely cause some cognitive dissonance for you...

[Frank2thepoint]

Obviously you are just meeting the wrong people. Dating is tough, and everyone knows this. You have to weed out the crap to find anyone with potential. I'm not saying lower your standards, but to be more open minded. Take it from an old gal, there is more to it than what looks good on paper. If you have too many strong opinions, you are putting up your own brick walls. This will be the cause of your lack of success meeting someone that is relationship worthy.

 

I would agree with this, but Eternal Sunshine admitted she has dated 100+ men. With that amount, it's no longer an issue of meeting wrong people, but choosing wrong people. She has to figure out the qualities of a man that she finds valuable, and most of those should be beyond physical. Then she should adhere to seeking out a man that fits them, have boundaries, and if the man doesn't meet them, have the discipline to walk away. I'm convinced she has low self-worth, and she doesn't think she deserves a good guy. She needs a bit of introspection, and nurturing her self-worth, otherwise she'll keep choosing bad guys, or worst, settle for someone just to fend off loneliness.

[road]

Why the hang up on college?

 

 

Many men have careers that make good money, provide stable employment.

 

 

 

 

I forgot to say without going to college.

[TigerLilly78]

So, in essence, are you saying that you would continue to date a guy with whom you have absolutely NOTHING in common, have ZERO sexual chemistry with, are NOT physically attracted to in any way and do NOT click with any aspect of his personality because - as you've stated - the best things develop over time?

 

That may be true...but up to a POINT. For me, if something isn't clicking (or if I'm not wondering what kissing him would feel like) with the guy I'm sitting across the table from or shooting a game of mini-golf with, then I'm not interested in possibly wasting my time with dating him over a long period of time. I mean, there has to be SOMETHING *there* for me to be interested in dating him past the first meet up or the first date. Guys do this all of the time; it's not any different for women - or at least not different for me.

 

 

.

 

.

 

 

Of course not..lol if there is nothing there then is absolutely nothing there what I was saying was some women and men to some degree for that matter have their "ideals" so set in stone and so high that they refuse to take anything else into consideration.

 

Honestly how many times have we herd a women say stuff like "he was a awesome guy and perfect in every way except this or that" that's kind of what im talking about and yes I do believe good things and strong relationships can form over time and with people you would have never thought.

 

By the way sorry if it took me a few days to respond I was busy irl with my partner a guy who until I got to know him and gave him a chance might not have been my first choice at one point in my life..

 

That said to each their own and people have to do what they think works for them at the end of the day. How ever there seams to be a large number of singes out there now a days ones who stay single as they age and I cant help but wonder if what im saying some how plays into that..

[Eternal Sunshine]

What I actually find interesting is how people who struggle mightily with finding quality relationships (like ES and Leigh) post as if they have some sort of knowledge about relationships that most people don't. And because of this knowledge, they remain single, on purpose. Because being single is way better than being in a bad relationship.

 

But that's just a false dichotomy. Your goal should be to get into a good relationship. That's actually a great option that you don't seem to mention.

 

OP, if you want to be in a good relationship, what types of qualities in a man should you be looking for? If you don't know (and history shows that you don't), you can look it up in peer reviewed journals. Not joking. There's a lot of research on this. Just beware, that it will likely cause some cognitive dissonance for you...

 

No, you are not getting it. I think I know who you were in the "previous LS life" so you might as well give it up.

 

I have said millions of time that good relationship>single>bad relationship. I am even posting this thread because I would prefer to be in a good relationship than single. Why do you refuse to acknowledge that your "80% of people are in relationships" includes those in bad relationships? Women and men get to their 30s, get desparate and get married out of society pressure. People stay with people that abuse them (mentally or physcially). We may disagree on the % but it happens all the time. You refusing to acknowledge that fact is the exact same thing you accusse me of (i.e. that good relationships exist).

Edited April 15, 2015 by Eternal Sunshine

[LookAtThisPOst]

ES....Weezy, like many other on message boards across the internet, just like to argue for the sake of arguing, even if it means grasping at straws to manufacture one.

 

No, you are not getting it. I think I know who you were in the "previous LS life" so you might as well give it up.

 

I have said millions of time that good relationship>single>bad relationship. I am even posting this thread because I would prefer to be in a good relationship than single. Why do you refuse to acknowledge that your "80% of people are in relationships" includes those in bad relationships? Women and men get to their 30s, get desparate and get married out of society pressure. People stay with people that abuse them (mentally or physcially). We may disagree on the % but it happens all the time. You refusing to acknowledge that fact is the exact same thing you accusse me of (i.e. that good relationships exist).

[Weezy1973]

No, you are not getting it. I think I know who you were in the "previous LS life" so you might as well give it up.

 

I don't have a "previous LS life".

 

I have said millions of time that good relationship>single>bad relationship. I am even posting this thread because I would prefer to be in a good relationship than single.

 

Great! That should make things way easier. Life is pretty simple:

 

1. Know what you want.

2. Do the things you need to do to get what you want.

 

You want to be in a good relationship. What are you doing to accomplish that?

 

 

Why do you refuse to acknowledge that your "80% of people are in relationships" includes those in bad relationships?

 

I don't refuse to acknowledge that at all. Of course there are bad relationships. But most people (by far) date and find someone to be in a relationship with. A lot of those relationships don't work out for a number of reasons. But as an academic you can solve this! Do some research; figure out what makes for a good relationship and do that! Go after men that would be good in a relationship!

 

Women and men get to their 30s, get desparate and get married out of society pressure.

 

Please show me statistics or research that shows this to be true. Statistics actually show that people who wait until their 30s to get married have a much lower divorce rate than those that get married in their 20s. Which would suggest the exact opposite of your statement. But hey, I'm open minded - if you can show research or stats that show people that get married in their 30s or beyond just did so out of societal pressure and are less happy, I'll change my mind.

 

 

People stay with people that abuse them (mentally or physcially). We may disagree on the % but it happens all the time.

 

Yes, this is a fact. Are you worried this will happen to you? Again - do your research. Find out what qualities make for the best relationships/marriage and set your sights on those types of men.

 

You refusing to acknowledge that fact is the exact same thing you accusse me of (i.e. that good relationships exist).

 

I don't think I've refused to acknowledge anything (if you can show me where, I'll take back those words). Successful relationships and marriages are hard work, and they're not guaranteed to make anyone happier. Generally speaking broken single people will lead to broken married people which will lead to broken marriages.

 

If you want to be in a good relationship make sure you're not broken; make sure you don't enter a relationship with someone broken.

[Eternal Sunshine]

This is the problem. In your 30s, say 80% of men are taken. Out of those that are single:

 

1. Men that don't want commitment. They are happy to have casual sex well into their 40s

2. Broken men (even if we assume that I am broken, 2 broken people have almost zero chance of making a relationship work; so no thanks)

3. Men that don't match my basic criteria (college education and stable job).

 

How many men do you know that are in their 30s and don't fall into 1, 2 or 3? I personally don't know any. So my choice is to be single or go for someone from 1,2 or 3 category. I am not exactly picking "wrong" men and turning "good" men down. I have a choice between "wrong men" and "no men", so I stay single.

[Leigh 87]

What I actually find interesting is how people who struggle mightily with finding quality relationships (like ES and Leigh) post as if they have some sort of knowledge about relationships that most people don't. And because of this knowledge, they remain single, on purpose. Because being single is way better than being in a bad relationship.

 

But that's just a false dichotomy. Your goal should be to get into a good relationship. That's actually a great option that you don't seem to mention.

 

OP, if you want to be in a good relationship, what types of qualities in a man should you be looking for? If you don't know (and history shows that you don't), you can look it up in peer reviewed journals. Not joking. There's a lot of research on this. Just beware, that it will likely cause some cognitive dissonance for you...

 

 

We don't " struggle " to find good relationships.

 

We could have a good relationship. If we wanted to.

 

Sadly, the men who have WANTED relationships with us, have not been men we felt passionate about. If we succumbed to a relationship with these men, we would always wonder " what if " it felt as good as one of the men who evoked great passion.

 

The trouble is, we need intense chemistry. We need to be enamoured with each other.

Most lasting relationships don't have a honey moon phase. The sex is good but never as sizzling as it was with prior partners who they DID share the intense chemistry with. We don't have issues finding relationships. We simply haven't found passion and compatibility in the one partner yet.

 

Please don't feel sorry for us. We are honestly a lot happier single than we would be in a mediocre relationship.

And by the way, a truly intense and passionate relationship with a compatible partner is hard for EVERYONE to find. Not merely me and the OP.

Me and the OP enjoy our lives and since we don't want kids, we are very happy holding out for the chemistry and compatibility in the one partner.

 

Please stop lamenting that the OP and I have such terrible luck. I have personally really enjoyed my relationships as well as the shorter lived passion filled flings with the men I actually yearned for.

 

I could personally find a lasting relationship tomorrow. Not being arrogant, but there is one guy who lives near me who is enamoured by me. He's a top guy. Works full time in a cool profession. Would do anything for me. I'm not that sexually attracted to him though. I will never feel passion for him the way I have other guys. The sex would become good no doubt, but never mind blowing. It NEVER is with th see sort of men.... How may be able to give you a long lasting relationship. But not the relationship WE want.

 

You're all welcome to speculate that we are searching for a fairy tale. Simply because intense passion and lust with a compatible partner is rare.

Edited April 16, 2015 by Leigh 87

[Leigh 87]

This is the problem. In your 30s, say 80% of men are taken. Out of those that are single:

 

1. Men that don't want commitment. They are happy to have casual sex well into their 40s

2. Broken men (even if we assume that I am broken, 2 broken people have almost zero chance of making a relationship work; so no thanks)

3. Men that don't match my basic criteria (college education and stable job).

 

How many men do you know that are in their 30s and don't fall into 1, 2 or 3? I personally don't know any. So my choice is to be single or go for someone from 1,2 or 3 category. I am not exactly picking "wrong" men and turning "good" men down. I have a choice between "wrong men" and "no men", so I stay single.

 

Oh boy is that true.

 

My latest boyfriend fits into the broken category.

 

He's a nerd. Highly intelligent. Great career. Hot.

 

Sadly, some exes completely tarnished his trust for women. And his latest ex, who he hates and cheated on him multiple times, just had his baby. He's a perfect catch aside from THAT. And he seemed REALLY into me. We had that elusive intense chemistry and we also really got along.

 

Good catches like him usually have a reason for being single:sick:

 

I've left him alone after the birth. Told him I'm here for him 100% if he wants it. And left him to deal with his Sh*t head ex and new baby The thing is, I am willing to continue being his girlfriend because he has everything going for him in spite of his very precarious situation. We have the passion. And we click.

 

He treated me better than any of my exes. He actually wanted to meet my parents. He makes the time for me despite his extremely busy at career and baby mama drama. He makes me feel gorgeous and desirable.

 

I'd rather a passion filled relationship with my best friend, that may have drama and baggage, than a lesser passionate relationship with a man who I didn't really click with as much yet who had no baggage. I'd pick passion and compatibility with a poor man or a man with a few solvable issues than I would a " safer " relationship with a more secure man who is better in paper.

[Emilia]

This is the problem. In your 30s, say 80% of men are taken. Out of those that are single:

 

1. Men that don't want commitment. They are happy to have casual sex well into their 40s

2. Broken men (even if we assume that I am broken, 2 broken people have almost zero chance of making a relationship work; so no thanks)

3. Men that don't match my basic criteria (college education and stable job).

 

How many men do you know that are in their 30s and don't fall into 1, 2 or 3? I personally don't know any. So my choice is to be single or go for someone from 1,2 or 3 category. I am not exactly picking "wrong" men and turning "good" men down. I have a choice between "wrong men" and "no men", so I stay single.

I agree with most of your posts and assertions but I have started doubting whether 2. is true. As always, it's down to compatibility, but I started to understand that a broken person will often more likely to 'get' what a relatively healthy one won't. So on the side note, don't write them off just yet. Of course that depends on your definition of broken too.

[Leigh 87]

And for Christ sake.

 

 

We KNOW what comprises a good relationship.. We know it's all about: mutual respect and admiration, trust, integrity, loyalty and honestly, shared values and goals, WE KNOW ALL THIS.

 

We can find a that. We just refuse to compromise on chemistry and passion.

 

I know a few couples who managed to find all those good things that a healthy and happy relationship and they ALSO felt strong chemistry. The were giddy with excitement. They were both limerent partners. With enough staying power to last.

 

I know very well what sort of relationship I and. And so does the OP. We have both seen the type of relationship we want. It's just more rare than most common relationships.

 

We are just waiting. There is nothing wrong with that. We don't need to be coached. We know of all types of relationships all around us. We know the rare few relationships that WE want to emulate.........

 

And before yet another poster chimes in about fairytales and us holding out for prince charming, that's not what I'm after. I can feel passion for men who aren't venerated by other women. I'm not waiting for the top tier. Just a man I adore and who adores me and who I share mutual intence chemistry and compatibility with.

 

It's just an added bonus that my current boyfriend is wealthy and super intelligent. It's not essential. I'm capable of feeling great chemistry with less well off, less good looking men.

Edited April 16, 2015 by Leigh 87

[Eternal Sunshine]

I agree with most of your posts and assertions but I have started doubting whether 2. is true. As always, it's down to compatibility, but I started to understand that a broken person will often more likely to 'get' what a relatively healthy one won't. So on the side note, don't write them off just yet. Of course that depends on your definition of broken too.

 

Hmm that's a good point. I was reading some research on attachemnt styles and it basically said that a person that has an "unhealthy attachment style" has a much better chance of making a relationship work with somone that has "healthy attachment style". They say it's because you can't deal with your own issues and other person's issues at the same time. In theory I agree...but, for example at work, I work much better with bosses that are a little too emotional. They seem to understand and forgive if I have emotional reactions too. Non-emotional bosses just think that I am crazy

[SawtoothMars]

This is the problem. In your 30s, say 80% of men are taken. Out of those that are single:

1. Men that don't want commitment. They are happy to have casual sex well into their 40s

2. Broken men (even if we assume that I am broken, 2 broken people have almost zero chance of making a relationship work; so no thanks)

3. Men that don't match my basic criteria (college education and stable job).

How many men do you know that are in their 30s and don't fall into 1, 2 or 3? I personally don't know any. So my choice is to be single or go for someone from 1,2 or 3 category. I am not exactly picking "wrong" men and turning "good" men down. I have a choice between "wrong men" and "no men", so I stay single.

 

You forgot the largest group... #4 Men who are turned off by your attitude.

 

Last time I checked the planet had 3 billion men and you only need 1. The odds are very much in your favor. If you are not willing to online date in order to meet them, because it seems "fake" and you hate "small talk"... then you should have a suitable backup plan. Speed dating... or even chasing married men. Sometimes you can get lucky and pry one away from his wife.

[Diezel]

You forgot the largest group... #4 Men who are turned off by your attitude.

 

My thoughts exactly.

 

I could see someone like ES from metaphorical "mile away". Then she'd probably lump me into 1 of her 3 categories.

[Eternal Sunshine]

I would say a category 3 for you both.

[SawtoothMars]

My thoughts exactly.

I could see someone like ES from metaphorical "mile away". Then she'd probably lump me into 1 of her 3 categories.

 

Don't get me wrong, I think ES is a nice lady, but her emotional walls are very high. I think she is the type that would be extremely difficult to date for anyone normal.

[ascendotum]

Please show me statistics or research that shows this to be true. Statistics actually show that people who wait until their 30s to get married have a much lower divorce rate than those that get married in their 20s. Which would suggest the exact opposite of your statement. But hey, I'm open minded - if you can show research or stats that show people that get married in their 30s or beyond just did so out of societal pressure and are less happy, I'll change my mind.

 

75 Percent Of Married People Settled, Lost Their ?True Love? [study]

 

I really don't think there are that many studies out there in respect of this issue. I quickly found this one though. Any studies would have to be at the anonymous individual level and not with couples together. I realize the divorce stats for couple in their 20s is worse than for couples in their 30s, but I don't necessarily believe its because the later group is happier. I think people make better long term decisions at that age but I also think for many, pragmatism takes over more than passionate love....for the reasons ES gave for example (basically less options + longer check-off lists compared to 20s). Off the top of my head I can think fo 4 friends who were settled for (imo) in their mid 30s. Two lost their houses and have to share custody of their child (within 3 yrs). Two are still together. None of them married. They were/are all in defacto relationships, so they probably wont figure up in the divorce stats. Just an example of how the stats may be not so B&W.

[BluEyeL]

Hmm that's a good point. I was reading some research on attachemnt styles and it basically said that a person that has an "unhealthy attachment style" has a much better chance of making a relationship work with somone that has "healthy attachment style". They say it's because you can't deal with your own issues and other person's issues at the same time. In theory I agree...but, for example at work, I work much better with bosses that are a little too emotional. They seem to understand and forgive if I have emotional reactions too. Non-emotional bosses just think that I am crazy

You're right here, I'm not emotional and if a graduate student acts like he doesn't have their sh*t together, I don't really have patience, I fire them. With me is just do your f*cking job and spare me the drama. I wouldn't be able to deal with a neurotic partner at all. I leave so fast you wouldn't know what happened. My ex-husband was neurotic and after 20 years with him, I have zero tolerance to that.

[road]

This is the problem. In your 30s, say 80% of men are taken. Out of those that are single:

 

1. Men that don't want commitment. They are happy to have casual sex well into their 40s

2. Broken men (even if we assume that I am broken, 2 broken people have almost zero chance of making a relationship work; so no thanks)

3. Men that don't match my basic criteria (college education and stable job).

 

 

 

Please do not take this as an attack.

 

 

I see avatars of average two women on LS. Phoe, and Jen followed by some numbers but I do not remember them now.

 

 

Now these are not full body shots though what I see are two pretty smiles that are inviting, appear to dress youthful, same with their hair styles.

 

 

Your avatar you appear average which is no sin for I am average as well. Though what hurts you is that your smile is lacking, hair and dress appear matronly.

 

 

Men are visual. We have to like what we see before we will approach a woman.

 

 

Next is that you refuse to settle. I have asked why must the man have a college degree. You have yet to answer that.

 

 

I know of many people that went to college and have low paying jobs and many men that never went to college and have well paying jobs and some even own their own business.

 

 

You are unrealistic picky trying to pull in a man much higher rated then you can. To be picky at 18 is one thing. To be as picky as the years roll by does not make sense.

 

 

You even know that as the years go by the pickings only get slimmer.

 

 

You need IC to see why it is that you hold out for the unobtainable.

 

 

In automobile terms you chose to walk because you can't afford a Cadillac and refuse to have a Chevrolet.