Dealing With Infidelity Lies

[harleygirl92156]

Ok, here's the scoop. AH went to treatment in December and came home in Jan. Life looked promising. Two weeks after he gets out of treatment I get a bill that has a long list of STD tests he had while he was in treatment. When he was confronted about them he admitted to a one night stand two and a half years prior. I of course couldn't understand and pointed that out to him that if it was two and a half years ago, why would he just now worry about STD's. No answer. Well, I was also told that he only had to tell me he had cheated on me and didn't have to tell me who with, what happened, where or why, simply that he cheated. Well that sat like a ton of bricks with me and after two weeks of hell told him he either fessed up or I was gone. I was not going to live the rest of my life in our small town wondering which one of the bar whores he had slept with. At first he swore he didn't remember and wouldn't even know her if he met her on the street and that he wasn't even sure he had sex with her, because he was in a black out. Said all he remembered was getting out of the back of a car to throw up and he was naked and there was a woman there with him and she was naked too. Ok, now the rest of the story.

When he realized I was serious about him telling me who it was he "came clean" as he says. He told me it was a girl he worked with and that it just happened one night in the bar when he was out partying with a bunch of co-workers and she happened to be one of them. Says he was really drunk and doesn't know why it happened or even where they were other than in a car.

Ok, well this woman had divorced and moved away so I tracked her down so to speak, on the internet. I put my husbands name on a web site I found her listed on and just waited. Well in two weeks she emailed him only it was me. I acted like I was him at first and then dropped the bomb. She told me everything and now that he has been confronted with it he admits it is true.

The affair lasted a year and a half, they had sex three times. but the affair was mostly EMOTIONAL and consisted of long talks and sweet talking and flirting at work.

My basic problem is HE LIES. Even sober he ranted and raved that he was telling me everything and that he wasn't lying........oh I get so pissed.

He can't get it through his head that it isnt' so much the affair as the way I was lied to about it and the the way I was accused of being crazy because I wouldn't believe him.

I have talked to his counselor in treatment and he wants to talk to the two of us together but we left it up to hubby to make the appointment. That was a week and half ago and he won't call him.

I guess I am too the point that I feel like working out our relationship is not a priority for him. He just wants to forget about it and move on like it didn't happen. He wants me to "GET OVER IT."

I don't think we can work through it without help and he needs to figure out why he did it or I will never be sure it won't happen again. If he doen't know why how can he be sure it won't happen again.

I think I need to leave for awhile so we can work this out and he says if I leave that is it and I can't ever come back. I say well ok, it that is how you feel.

How about some input. We need to address the constant lying and the why of the affair before I can consider working on the relationship. Right now I am working it on it alone and that doesn't get me very far.

HELP!!!

[alicia24]

Walk away. I know it is hard, but if you dont you will drive each other crazy because you will be so suspicious about what he is doing when you are not around and that will drive you insane. I've been there and it was horrible. And I always found myself imagining what they looked like when they were haveing sex and that was just mind blowing.

[jmargel]

If he wants this to work he should be abiding by what you want (ie. counseling). If he won't go, then you know that his actions are not true to his words. Anyone can tell you what you want to hear, but doing it is another thing. Lies themselves usually compound pretty fast. All the trust is gone with him and the only way to retrieve some of it back he's not willing to do.

 

So, it's either you walk away and let him realize what he's losing & have him chase you or continue to condone his behavior by staying there. Empty threats are just that. Empty. He knows it. If he's not willing to show action by going to couseling with you, then you need to show the action by walking out.

[Bubbles]

Amen to that Jmargel!

 

HarleyGirl...Do Not Allow this man to wipe his feet on you! He's proven himself to be nothing more than a really bad liar. You know what they say......the truth ALWAYS comes out in the end........o.k. so you put the end in Fast Forward I've done the same.

 

Get packing! If he will not agree to go to councelling then leave him.

 

bubbles

[Ladyjane14]

All I can tell you is that this week, a woman who has been married for 70 years shared a story with me.

 

Her man requires nursing now. He's 90 years old, and still bigger than she is, so it's quite a chore. She's very slight....and she's got a smile that would break your heart. Sweet as a child's. But she's not at all innocent to the ways of a cheating spouse. Because apparently he's been cheating on her for her entire marriage. Again....that's 70 years!

 

He's got his beady little eye on a healthcare worker. And she's still upset enough about it to shed tears. How sad is that???

 

I've met other couples, married for 70 years as well....and they are STILL in love after all that time. But this one is still suffering the curse of infidelity.

 

Can you even begin to imagine? I'm not sure I can wrap my mind around that.

 

When push comes to shove....I guess what I'm saying is that if you don't solve this now...you'll still be dealing with it later.

[only1life]

Those lies are painful! Sorry. I know the feeling.

 

He was in the wrong, so if he isn't sorry, and he won't be understanding and work with you to make you feel better, then there is no way you can forgive him. He needs to answer all your questions, to try and understand the pain he has caused, and to work together with you to recover.

 

It is you that should be making the ultimatum, not him.

 

The only thing you have to decide is if staying with him is worth the trouble he has already put you through, and will continue to put you through. Are the good times you might have with him worth it?

[harleygirl92156]

We spent three and a half hours.......YEA, three and a half with a counselor last night discussing HONESTY!

Since he took the time to go I will stick around and see if it paid off. Only time will tell. We will go back also.

After talking to us the counselor said "well, it seems this marriage has only one problem, honesty, so lets work on that." I was encouraged. We have been through a lot together and even the counselor said there seemed to be no other major issues.

And, yes, he is worth it. If he wasn't I certainly wouldn't have stuck around this long.

[harleygirl92156]

Well we are back to the "I don't know, I don't remember and I can't tell you"........it is hopeless. He is going to take the lies to his grave, but by God he will take them to his grave alone, well, without me anyway.

[Bubbles]

So, are you telling us it's over with him Harleygirl?

 

You have made up your mind? Have you discussed it with him so that he understands that you are serious?

 

 

bubbles

[harleygirl92156]

We have an appointment with a marriage counselor Monday, he says he will go, was kinda pissy about it but said he would go. Will see.

[Bubbles]

I guess you will have to take the good with the bad huh? While it's great that he agreed to go to the councellor...he did'nt exactly sound happy about it. You know what? He already knows that he has done a lot a bad concerning the relationship and probably already knows what he is in for.....most people do.

 

Have you ever tried following him? I mean most people that are having affairs or doing something that they really should'nt be doing come up with some type of lie about where they have been! What shocks me about your husband is the answer he gives you!!! "i don't know?" "i don't remember?" and then to top it all off....."I can't tell you?" What the........???

 

You need to follow him girl! Unless he is involved with the C.I.A. or the F.B.I or some Mafia dealings?......he should be able to come up with something better than what he gives you!

 

bubbles

[harleygirl92156]

Well bubbles, I don't need to follow him cause he isn't drinking anymore. This all happened during the six years he was an active alcoholic. He is sober now and this is all coming out. He doesn't go anywhere now but AA meetings and I am along 90% of the time.

 

I can't tell you is an answer a counselor gave him to say when he doesn't want to tell the truth but doesn't want to lie either. I have gone round with the counselors also, but to no good end. They say he doesn't have to tell me anything, he only has to confess to God and be sorry for what he has done. I have no right to know what he did as it is his PERSONAL BUSINESS. Well I beg to differ with that.

 

He has till Jan 15, 2006 to fess up or I am gone. I made him a promise the day he got out of treatment that I would stick out the year to see if this was a relationship I want to be in or not. I won't break that promise, but you can bet that at midnight on Jan 15 if I am not 100% sure he is on the up and up and the relationship is at least headed in the right direction, I am gone.

 

Do I think he would cheat on me sober, no, but I can't be 100% sure.

[Moose]

So, you're saying that if he doesn't tell you everything that's happenend in the past.....you're gone? That's awful. People make mistakes, realize the mistake, and then avoid making them again....usually. Here he is, he quit drinking, going to AA, trying to straighten his life out, is going to counceling like you asked......and you aren't happy?

 

Why can't you let his past go? It's obvious he isn't the same person.....don't you have a skeleton or 2 in your closet? He's already confessed to the affair....what else do you want from him? You have every right to walk.....but you're telling us that he fessed up to everything, is going to counceling like you wanted, and even quit his drinking.......what else do you want from him?

 

Am I missing something or am I right in thinking you're making it impossible for him to please you?

[harleygirl92156]

Moose,

Read the original post. I want the truth, nothing more. I want the truth about the past, clear up the lies he has told since being sober and I want faithfulness. The only way he can have any idea if he will be faithful in the furture is to understand why he cheated in the first place.

 

I have lived with a lying cheating drunk for six years, so don't even think I am a person who can't be pleased, I have been pleased with NOTHING for years but I no longer have to accept nothing and I deserve more.

[Moose]

I did read the original post.....

She told me everything and now that he has been confronted with it he admits it is true.

Key word here is, everything. And he told you that he was drunk, in a black out, (which no doubt made it easier for him to fall into infidelity)......he's not drinking now, going to counceling with you now, and trying to figure out the problems in the marriage now.......WHAT ELSE DO YOU WANT!!!!!

 

You already know everything......what do you want him to do? Remember every single lie he's told you and beg for your forgiveness? That's just impossible. Especially since he was drinking consistantly at the time. He's going to AA, one of the steps is to right your wrongs with loved ones. It sounds to me that he's taken huge steps considering where he's come from, and you still aren't satisfied.

 

I'd just leave. If you can't forgive, and forget.....see ya! (And I'm a total, "work it out", FREAK!)

[harleygirl92156]

He admits what I already KNOW is true, he uses I don't know and I don't remember everywhere else.

 

Also, he STARTED the affair AT WORK where he didn't drink and was

STONE COLD SOBER!!! Had NOTHING to do with and alcoholic blackout. He approched her and ask her if she wanted to mess around, SOBER!

 

He is still lying and you just don't understand that part of it. He admits what he is FORCED to. He has had more than one affair, and several one night stands. I know this for a fact, and he doesn't know I know it, but he is sure about to find out if he doesn't come clean.

 

I want honesty. Obviously you are a person who believes the "what you don't know won't hurt you" and "don't ask, don't tell".....well that is fine, but if the marriage is based on those concepts, it will be based on those concepts for both of us, not just HIM! Open marriage, Ok, but it works both ways!

[Owl]

Set some hard boundaries, and stick to them. Tell him point blank that "I don't remember is BS". Tell him that he needs to either admit the truth, or get out of the marriage. You can't live in a situation where you can't trust the person you love to be honest with you.

[Moose]

He is still lying and you just don't understand that part of it.

You're right, I didn't know this.

I know this for a fact, and he doesn't know I know it,

Then you're being just as deceitful.

Obviously you are a person who believes the "what you don't know won't hurt you" and "don't ask, don't tell".....

Actually, I'm the exact opposite...... AND, That door needs to swing both ways sister. What you're doing is just as bad as what he's doing.

 

Tell him what you know.....all of it......every single detail that you know of. You want him to be honest with you? You're going to have to be honest with him as well. If you sit around knowing what you know, and let him continue on expecting him to come clean.....you might as well forget about Jan. 15, 2006 and go ahead and leave now.

 

games.

[harleygirl92156]

ok, Mister Moose,

 

He knows I talked to her, he knows I talked to her in DETAIL, he has been told I have the scoop but will not tell his side of the story. The only thing he doesn't know is every detail she told me, but he knows there are details, so why can't he just tell the truth. I know why, because he doesn't know how to tell the truth and the lies he tells won't match up with what she told me.

 

you don't understand moose so just leave it alone

[Moose]

you don't understand moose so just leave it alone

Wrong.....again. I understand very well. I agree that he should be totally, and 100% honest with you at all times. For some it's a hard habit to break. People lie for different reasons. Some lie to save face and I think that's what your husband is doing. He needs to stop the lying all together.....

 

But bringing up the past and what went on.....that's not gonna happen and he shouldn't have to. If you expect him to bend to your will, you've got another thing coming.......the more you push on this the further away he's going to get.

 

What will you do if he did though? What would your reaction be like.......would you soak it all in and in the end say, "that's all I wanted", then be as happy as a story book marriage? I doubt it.....seriously.....

 

So why continue with this game you're playing? He cheated on you so you have just cause to leave the marriage....why don't you just get it over with? Can you honestly say that you'll grow old with him and be happy?.....because you first have to love a person to do that.....and by loving a person, that means you need to be forgiving to that person as well.

 

It's just my opinion, but I think that you're going about this whole thing all wrong, and the ultimate outcome is going to be you leaving come Jan 15, 2006......I say why waste your friggin' time?

[EnigmaXOXO]

Harley,

 

I was wondering if you had been able to attend any 'individual' counseling during your husband's recovery? Particularly when it comes to reestablishing "trust." This is often the biggest hurdle to overcome for the family of a recovering alcoholic or addict. It took me MONTHS to get back my balance and feel secure with my footing again.

 

I was once married to a recovering alcoholic and addict. I also have a daughter who is in and out of recovery. What I learned is that evasiveness and dishonesty for the chemically addicted is a 'survival tactic' which, even after sobriety, has become yet another habit that's hard to break. For me, it was difficult to re-establish trust with my husband when he would continue to lie even about the tiniest things -- like taking out the trash, or whether or not he had paid the electric bill. I'd also hear the "I forgots"…and I actually started to believe he suffered from some mild form of brain damage and memory loss due to his years of chemical abuse. Not so. It's just that "avoidance" had become such a comfort zone for him, that he'd rather fake amnesia or play dumb than to address a touchy situation head on. Simply put, he was avoiding any sort of confrontation.

 

I know how frustrating this is. It's hard to reestablish trust with someone who continues to evade and tell half-truths. Interesting, my husband's councilors encouraged him to come clean about everything so that there would be no unresolved issues that would raise their ugly heads later. This was done inside the councilors office so that any heated words between us could be diffused quickly.

 

But, I found out many years later that I wasn't told everything. It wasn't until after we were divorced ten years later that I discovered my husband had an affair with a mutual female friend during the time he was using. I don't know whether or not he shared this information with our councilor, or whether he kept that a secret too, but had I have known I can't honestly say that I would have stuck it out for ten more years.

 

Was not knowing the whole truth a good thing or a bad thing in our situation? It's hard to say cause you can't go back and undo what's already been done. But I will tell you that no one can tell you when it's time to throw in the towel, or when to stick it out. There are people who will say you are foolish for staying, and others who will claim its your obligation as his wife. I got it from both ends too. But only YOU will know when enough is enough. When it's time to go, you'll know it in your heart and there'll be no second guessing or looking back. The "letting go" will be easy.

 

Stay strong, and most importantly…make sure you take care of you.

[Owl]

Moose-

 

I could be wrong, but from a BS's viewpoint, she's got to have an honest idea on exactly WHAT it is she's being asked to forgive if she plans on keeping him in her life. It sounds to me like she's not made a decision yet as to whether or not she wants to continue in this marriage. Knowing the truth, and more importantly, KNOWING HE'LL TELL HER THE TRUTH, is likely key to her decision. THAT is why she brings up the past, THAT is why she's pushing so hard to get him to be honest...because she's not ready to give him up yet, but she's not able to maintain a relationship with him when she knows he's not being honest.

 

Harley-

 

Realize that even with all the counseling, he's not likely to change the kind of person that he is. If he's always been secretive, deceptive, evasive, etc...then he's not likely to change that anytime in the near future. Not unless something drastic happens that affects his viewpoint on the world. You're very likely going to have to make a choice to accept him as he is (deception and all), or move on to a healthier relationship with someone else. If he's not repentent for what he's done, he's not going to change his behavior.

 

Good luck regardless.

[Moose]

It sounds to me like she's not made a decision yet as to whether or not she wants to continue in this marriage.

Precisely why I said it's a waste of time, at least until she makes that decision.

KNOWING HE'LL TELL HER THE TRUTH, is likely key to her decision.

Whether or not he will has already been established..... in my point of view.

You're very likely going to have to make a choice to accept him as he is (deception and all), or move on to a healthier relationship with someone else.

Exactly what I was trying to say.

[harleygirl92156]

Thanks Owl, you seem to understand the concept. I want to know he can tell me the truth because that is something he hasn't been able to do for the last six years of our 12 year marriage. If he can't, I can't stay. It is a pretty simple boundry.

Moose thinks he understands, but he really doesn't.

I respect all this man has done to make our life better, if I didn't, the truth wouldn't matter because I would have gone long ago. I love this man, faults and all, but there is only so much a person can take before they walk away. I am at my limit and the only way I see he can redeem himself with me is to TRUST me enough to be honest with me on all counts. That is it.

If he tells me, it will be discussed, mostly the why of it, so the reasons that caused it don't happen again. I will not freak out, leave him, attack the other women, no, I will thank him for telling the truth and LET IT FRICKEN GO!!! That is what I need, to know he can and will tell me the truth. That is it, so simple

[Moose]

Originally posted by harleygirl92156

Thanks Owl, you seem to understand the concept. I want to know he can tell me the truth because that is something he hasn't been able to do for the last six years of our 12 year marriage. If he can't, I can't stay. It is a pretty simple boundry.

Moose thinks he understands, but he really doesn't.

I respect all this man has done to make our life better, if I didn't, the truth wouldn't matter because I would have gone long ago. I love this man, faults and all, but there is only so much a person can take before they walk away. I am at my limit and the only way I see he can redeem himself with me is to TRUST me enough to be honest with me on all counts. That is it.

If he tells me, it will be discussed, mostly the why of it, so the reasons that caused it don't happen again. I will not freak out, leave him, attack the other women, no, I will thank him for telling the truth and LET IT FRICKEN GO!!! That is what I need, to know he can and will tell me the truth. That is it, so simple

I know this is probably a stupid no brainer......but have you set him down alone at the kitchen table, held his hand, looked him in the eye and told him what you just typed out? If you haven't, then you're just hindering the process. That's what I don't understand......you know everything, more than your husbands knows you know, and you're hiding it from him. How can you expect 100% total open honesty when you're not able to give it yourself.