The Marriage Apocalypse - I wasn't imagining this.

[Nikki Sahagin]

You might be onto something.....

 

Just a theory, but many of the boomers and X gens considered kids later in life and also considered kids an accessory to their life-but not their whole life......They were whats most important....Their jobs, their careers, their Benz...their Mc Mansion's...They thought nothing of handing over tiny infants to the hands of daycare providers for 8-10 hrs a day......And when things got tough, they bailed...There was no "hanging in there for the kids"...as previous generations often did..

 

Autism is at record levels now...Staggering levels...especially in boys...How are these kids going to become functional adults..?....Marriage? Responsibility??....Kids???

 

You do really have to wonder....

 

TFY

 

I think this is only partly true.

 

My mum used to work at a bank and gave it up when she had my brother and I. She was a stay at home mum. She went back to work when I was around 17. My mother did this because she had me at 41; she'd traveled and enjoyed her career and was happy to be a mother. She was also VERY happy to get back to work when I was older. I don't think I'll ever know quite what my mother sacrificed personally to raise us.

 

I think a woman has a right not to be a stay at home mum. For some women, this can lead to depression, loss of self-esteem. People don't want to admit this but not EVERY woman finds motherhood easy. It is hard for some women, especially those with dreams and ambitions, even if they love and want their children, to dedicate their lifes SOLELY to their kids, which is how it can become. I know quite a few stay at home mothers who have very mixed feelings; they love their kids but really struggle with the lifestyle.

 

If a woman going to work or having some space helps her cope, then I feel this makes her a better mother. Some women are natural mother earths and love being SAHM. Others are not so minded. This is important for partners to discuss BEFORE they have kids. If you expect your wife to stay at home with the kids, you must pick a partner with compatible ideals and not a woman who is more career oriented.

 

I think it's also important to note that in our modern society, the pressure to raise a child is almost ENTIRELY on the mother. That's ONE person. Of course we have benefits, government support and families but it used to be a case of,

 

'It takes a village to raise a child.'

 

Oftentimes, a mother raises her child/ren largely alone. If she has a husband, he is working and may spend time with the children when he comes home for a while. There are many amazing dads who get this balance right. There are also many who don't.

 

Many women do not have the luxury of large, close, extended families or big groups of friends who can help out. In other countries, you see more people helping with kids. This has largely died out because our communities have become estranged. 'Stranger danger',the speed of immigration and the fact that people don't settle in one place now, means that most people don't even know their neighbours, let alone trust them.

 

How can you ask Sue next door to keep an eye on the kids for 5 if you don't even know who she is? Our communities have broken down. This has put a LOT of pressure on mothers (and fathers really) to do it ALL. It is VERY hard to be a parent nowadays.

 

My dad even tells me stories of growing up in a very dysfunctional home; single mum, lots of kids and a step-dad who was a bit of a turd, but always neighbours, friends, aunts, uncles, grandparents stopping in; always someone to talk to, teach you, have time for you. His mum worked hard to support her family but my dad was never alone or lonely because his family was large.

 

Most modern parents do not have this luxury. There are many women raising kids alone (and no not all are under the umbrella of 'scummy single mum who got knocked up on purpose); some have lost their husbands etc. There are also many dads doing it alone too. The gov is happy to throw money at parents but not help where it counts; in the community spirit that creates a well rounded child that belongs.

 

Another thing to consider is the COST of kids now. Depending on where you live health care and schooling are not cheap. A lot of people don't even have as many kids as they WANT because they can't afford to keep them. My mum had to help me cover my tuition fees at uni. If I'd had to have done it alone, I wouldn't have been able to go at all.

Edited April 10, 2015 by Nikki Sahagin

[Gloria25]

TherEnThe problem isn't that "modern" parents lack the support of extended family and the "village" to raise a child...the problem is that they want "stuff" (certain home, vehicle, clothing) and, women are being told they have no value as a SAHM/SAHW...then, you have lazy "fathers/husbands" who are all too happy to have a 2nd income instead of an actual wife and/or mother.

 

I think its sad that some people have become so detached from intimacy that they can just pawn off their child to some daycare worker. But, cuz they were probably put in daycare themselves, they unfortunately have lost the ability to experience real bonding with their parent...

 

I can't put it into words, but a mother needs to be present with their child - especially years from birth to 3 years old. Ever hear of kids in foster care and/or adoptive situations who grow up with mental disorders? It's cuz they didn't have that "touch" from a parent in their formative years. I think that's why this generation lacks certain things/qualities (ie weddings based on a party instead of substance, kids out of wedlock, shack-ups).

 

From our earliest of childhood, we develop our ability to connect, trust, and bond through the time spent with parents. If you're worried about them not socializing and/or learning to be "independent" then take them to the park to play with other kids as a SAHM...dumping them off in daycare isn't the same. You have some minimum wage worker who has to tend to yours and God knows how many kids...tell me how your kid is gonna get the same quality of attention from mommy? Also, they put your kid on a eating/naping/changing schedule based on the daycare's need to manage all kids. Well, some kids eat when they are hungry and a "schedule" is what you put a dog on.

 

Look, the bigger picture here is the disintegration/breakdown of the family unit by taking mothers out of the home and leaving it up to strangers and the government (public schools) to raise your kid. So, you have the government and strangers spending like 8 hrs A DAY with your child and when things pop up (ie a "teaching moment") government and strangers are gonna end up teaching your kids about life, morals, etc...funny how they are gonna do that when they already are taking God, morality, and/or civil duty/pride out of the public schools.

 

Look, if you want a career and/or "stuff" don't have kids. While many of us have the biological ability to reproduce, that doesn't automatically make us parenting material. And IMO, if you wanna bring a child into this world you better be ready to sacrifice your "comfort" cuz that child is dependent on YOU...also, you have a responsibility to raise a child to be a productive member of society.

 

I am selfish...I like my freedom. From when I became sexually active, I sought out birth control. I would NEVER outsource my child's care to strangers and quite frankly I believe also in homeschooling.

[Nikki Sahagin]

TherEnThe problem isn't that "modern" parents lack the support of extended family and the "village" to raise a child...the problem is that they want "stuff" (certain home, vehicle, clothing) and, women are being told they have no value as a SAHM/SAHW...then, you have lazy "fathers/husbands" who are all too happy to have a 2nd income instead of an actual wife and/or mother.

 

I think its sad that some people have become so detached from intimacy that they can just pawn off their child to some daycare worker. But, cuz they were probably put in daycare themselves, they unfortunately have lost the ability to experience real bonding with their parent...

 

I can't put it into words, but a mother needs to be present with their child - especially years from birth to 3 years old. Ever hear of kids in foster care and/or adoptive situations who grow up with mental disorders? It's cuz they didn't have that "touch" from a parent in their formative years. I think that's why this generation lacks certain things/qualities (ie weddings based on a party instead of substance, kids out of wedlock, shack-ups).

 

From our earliest of childhood, we develop our ability to connect, trust, and bond through the time spent with parents. If you're worried about them not socializing and/or learning to be "independent" then take them to the park to play with other kids as a SAHM...dumping them off in daycare isn't the same. You have some minimum wage worker who has to tend to yours and God knows how many kids...tell me how your kid is gonna get the same quality of attention from mommy? Also, they put your kid on a eating/naping/changing schedule based on the daycare's need to manage all kids. Well, some kids eat when they are hungry and a "schedule" is what you put a dog on.

 

Look, the bigger picture here is the disintegration/breakdown of the family unit by taking mothers out of the home and leaving it up to strangers and the government (public schools) to raise your kid. So, you have the government and strangers spending like 8 hrs A DAY with your child and when things pop up (ie a "teaching moment") government and strangers are gonna end up teaching your kids about life, morals, etc...funny how they are gonna do that when they already are taking God, morality, and/or civil duty/pride out of the public schools.

 

Look, if you want a career and/or "stuff" don't have kids. While many of us have the biological ability to reproduce, that doesn't automatically make us parenting material. And IMO, if you wanna bring a child into this world you better be ready to sacrifice your "comfort" cuz that child is dependent on YOU...also, you have a responsibility to raise a child to be a productive member of society.

 

I am selfish...I like my freedom. From when I became sexually active, I sought out birth control. I would NEVER outsource my child's care to strangers and quite frankly I believe also in homeschooling.

 

But that IS part of the problem Gloria. Of course, many parents (and people) are materialistic. This is an epidemic of modern society and in no way exclusive to parents. Of course there are useless parents who only care about a new TV or car. But there are also a great many parents who put their kids FIRST and still struggle, because they lack the support of a community. Community is SO important and SO vital for children and parents, indeed for all of us and it has largely been deconstructed and destroyed in many parts of the world, particularly urban sprawls where it can be very hard to trust or know others truly. I was still part of a generation to grow up outside on the street with my friends. I came home when the street lights started to go on. That gave my parents time and peace to be together, do chores etc. A lot of parents now are TERRIFIED to let their children outside or out to play. They would rather leave them indoors with their expensive gadgets where they are SAFE. So yes, lack of community is an issue. I don’t know if you have children but nearly every parent would say they would love a trustworthy adult/s to help take off some of the load. Of course they would!

 

 

Also putting children in day care does not necessarily have anything to do with intimacy issues. Yes some parents are feckless and don’t want to raise their kids themselves. Many parents are simply trying hard to make a living and keep a roof over their heads. For many, this involves two incomes. They are actually many mothers who DO want to be SAHM, but can’t afford to. In these cases, day care is NECESSARY. Not every parent who puts their child in day care is missing an intimacy chip. What about when you send your child to playgroup or school?

 

 

 

I do agree that it’s important for a mother to be with her child but we also need to consider the needs of the mother as well. There are many reasons why a mother may struggle, including post partum depression, being a single mother, financial burdens, illness. When I was born I was taken to an incubator away from my mother. She couldn’t hold me or touch me. The nurses told her she wouldn’t bond with me the same way because she didn’t hold me as soon as I was born. My mum is my best friend and we’ve never had any problems. I think people are too quick to scaremonger about how a mum is going to f- up her baby.

 

 

 

It’s unfair to blame mothers for shallow weddings etc. We live in a capitalist society; OF COURSE IT’S A MATERIALISTIC ONE. This isn’t the sole fault of mothers or parents. It’s the world that we are born into. It’s our culture, society, which is made up of people and individuals yes, but is largely dictated to us. Even children raised by loving, devoted mothers can go off the rails, be materialistic and have mental disorders. It’s not as if a SAHM and her children are protected from these evils.

 

 

I disagree about the disintegration of the home. You simplify it far too much Gloria. I don’t have children myself but I think you see the issue as too black and white.

You seem to have a real issue with mothers who don’t stay at home. Was your mum a SAHM? Although my mother was, and I am grateful to that, I wouldn’t have begrudged her for working or for needing to work to provide for us.

 

 

Have you even been to a day care?

Many are wonderful places with great staff members who are wonderful with the kids. As long as the parents spend quality time with their children and the kids know they are loved, they will be fine.

 

 

Now of course some parent are useless; they are workaholics, abusive, neglectful, they do nothing for their kids. Most parents DO THERE BEST. To be honest Gloria, you cannot be so judgemental. You do not even know the reasons why some mothers must go to work...some HAVE to just to keep a roof over their kids heads and food on the table. What about single mothers? Do you think they should just sit at home on the benefit or go out and make something of themselves for their children? This would take them ‘away’ from the house too, wouldn’t it?

 

 

 

Children are resilient. They need love and care of course. There are plenty of SAHM mothers who sit around smoking weed, watching TV and ignoring their kids and plenty of mother’s who work who come home, put dinner on the table, help their kid with their homework and read them a bed time story. Don’t be so judgemental.

[Nikki Sahagin]

And also, there really is no guide book on becoming a parent or being a mother. People do the best they can with what they know. It's very easy, when you don't have children, to sit and judge other people. But there is NO right or wrong way.

 

Children have been turning out wrong or right for centuries, regardless of what their parents have done.

 

My mum used to take me to McDonalds after every swimming lesson as a treat. Some people would crucify her as irresponsible and neglectful. My mum also used to leave me at home with my brother when we were both below ten, if she had to run to the shops. Some would say that's neglect. My mum was an incredible mother and just because she was a SAHM that doesn't mean she was perfect.

 

It's so easy for people to blame the mother. A mother is only a human being, a woman, trying to do her best, often in hard circumstances; financial burdens, relationship issues, personal issues. Mothers DO need support. They need the help of their communities, their societies, their cultures. Even the issue about breastfeeding in public is ridiculous. As a whole, we live in a culture that does not support mothers.

 

The gov throws money at mothers who are struggling, and this can be abused. But many mothers struggle in other areas, especially single mothers. Our societies can be very family unfriendly. Think how many people have no patience when a baby cries on a plane, as if the parents let them cry on purpose to spite you?

 

I believe most mothers are doing their best. You throw around claims about missing intimacy chips etc. Many mothers find it very hard to leave their children in a day care, but they MUST work.

[BluEyeL]

Well it's important to look at this data objectively.

 

You have to remember that the original reason why people married, and why many elsewhere in the world still marry, was and is for status, connections between countries and families and wealth - rarely was it for love. In fact, marriage and love largely did not go together.

 

Only recently has marriage been about being in love.

 

So the reason marriage has formerly been so popular is that people were forced into the institution by and large and others chose it for its religious significance.

 

Now marriage CAN be a beautiful thing, but lets not pretend it was hard woven into the institution itself.

 

If people in the past had freedom to choose, chances are many would remain unmarried.

 

Today people have the freedom and although many are into casual sex, casual relationships and the hook up culture, hidden within those figures are also cohabiting couples, same sex couples, couples who can't afford to marry or who have been together for 25 years but don't want to marry.

 

A lot of my friends (I'm 25 and they are a similar age bracket) are engaged to marry. I don't think it's going anywhere. I just think people are more cautious of marriage; after all, a ring doesn't mean one of you won't cheat, fall out of love or clean the other out - it just means you've made a promise to try harder, which not every partner honours.

That's exactly what i said. I am not worried at all. I rather have a society where there is more freedom rather than people being forced to live their lives the way others dictate them to live them, like in the past. So few options.

[Gloria25]

That's exactly what i said. I am not worried at all. I rather have a society where there is more freedom rather than people being forced to live their lives the way others dictate them to live them, like in the past. So few options.

 

I beg to differ...

 

With all this "freedom" people are making poor choices in people to date and/or marry. Shoot, they don't even know simple courting rituals (ie being a gentleman).

 

See, things were done a certain way - back in the day - for a certain reason...not cuz of a bunch of old fuzzy duds who are not open to "change/progression/modern" or whatever fancy buzzwords are used to describe the "devolution" of society today.

 

A guy had to go through your dad before he could even take you out for an innocent date of popcorn and a movie. Your dad did that to make sure some dude ain't taking his little girl and gonna get his penis wet to dump her when he's done with her. The dad also made sure dude was making money and could provide for his daughter - cuz no matter how much BC you use, an "oops" pregnancy can happen and dad is just making sure his daughter is protected and no illegit kids are born.

 

Mothers would teach cooking, cleaning and making a house a "home" to young ladies...and, how to carry themselves with dignity and grace.

 

We don't have that now a days. We have tweens chasing boys and giving free bjs in/on school hours. We have desperate women shacking up and/or having kids out of wedlock cuz they want what they want...

 

So much for all these "freedoms"

[Nikki Sahagin]

I beg to differ...

 

With all this "freedom" people are making poor choices in people to date and/or marry. Shoot, they don't even know simple courting rituals (ie being a gentleman).

 

See, things were done a certain way - back in the day - for a certain reason...not cuz of a bunch of old fuzzy duds who are not open to "change/progression/modern" or whatever fancy buzzwords are used to describe the "devolution" of society today.

 

A guy had to go through your dad before he could even take you out for an innocent date of popcorn and a movie. Your dad did that to make sure some dude ain't taking his little girl and gonna get his penis wet to dump her when he's done with her. The dad also made sure dude was making money and could provide for his daughter - cuz no matter how much BC you use, an "oops" pregnancy can happen and dad is just making sure his daughter is protected and no illegit kids are born.

 

Mothers would teach cooking, cleaning and making a house a "home" to young ladies...and, how to carry themselves with dignity and grace.

 

We don't have that now a days. We have tweens chasing boys and giving free bjs in/on school hours. We have desperate women shacking up and/or having kids out of wedlock cuz they want what they want...

 

So much for all these "freedoms"

 

I actually don't disagree with you Gloria about the dad vetting the boyfriend and the sexual promiscuity of our children/teens but to a degree this has always gone on, just in secret. There is an explosion of this nowadays but look at what our kids are exposed to? The entire society and culture is built around sex and violence. When religion left, no spirituality came to take its place. Now we have a hedonistic sex and violence obsessed society, at least in the media, and that has a poor impact on kids.

[loveweary11]

TherEnThe problem isn't that "modern" parents lack the support of extended family and the "village" to raise a child...the problem is that they want "stuff" (certain home, vehicle, clothing) and, women are being told they have no value as a SAHM/SAHW...then, you have lazy "fathers/husbands" who are all too happy to have a 2nd income instead of an actual wife and/or mother.

 

I think its sad that some people have become so detached from intimacy that they can just pawn off their child to some daycare worker. But, cuz they were probably put in daycare themselves, they unfortunately have lost the ability to experience real bonding with their parent...

 

I can't put it into words, but a mother needs to be present with their child - especially years from birth to 3 years old. Ever hear of kids in foster care and/or adoptive situations who grow up with mental disorders? It's cuz they didn't have that "touch" from a parent in their formative years. I think that's why this generation lacks certain things/qualities (ie weddings based on a party instead of substance, kids out of wedlock, shack-ups).

 

From our earliest of childhood, we develop our ability to connect, trust, and bond through the time spent with parents. If you're worried about them not socializing and/or learning to be "independent" then take them to the park to play with other kids as a SAHM...dumping them off in daycare isn't the same. You have some minimum wage worker who has to tend to yours and God knows how many kids...tell me how your kid is gonna get the same quality of attention from mommy? Also, they put your kid on a eating/naping/changing schedule based on the daycare's need to manage all kids. Well, some kids eat when they are hungry and a "schedule" is what you put a dog on.

 

Look, the bigger picture here is the disintegration/breakdown of the family unit by taking mothers out of the home and leaving it up to strangers and the government (public schools) to raise your kid. So, you have the government and strangers spending like 8 hrs A DAY with your child and when things pop up (ie a "teaching moment") government and strangers are gonna end up teaching your kids about life, morals, etc...funny how they are gonna do that when they already are taking God, morality, and/or civil duty/pride out of the public schools.

 

Look, if you want a career and/or "stuff" don't have kids. While many of us have the biological ability to reproduce, that doesn't automatically make us parenting material. And IMO, if you wanna bring a child into this world you better be ready to sacrifice your "comfort" cuz that child is dependent on YOU...also, you have a responsibility to raise a child to be a productive member of society.

 

I am selfish...I like my freedom. From when I became sexually active, I sought out birth control. I would NEVER outsource my child's care to strangers and quite frankly I believe also in homeschooling.

 

^^^^^^This x 1,000,000!!

 

Exactly why I didn't have kids.

[Anela]

 

So much for all these "freedoms"

 

You have the freedom to express yourself, rather than being told that you should be seen and not heard, because you're a woman.

[Nikki Sahagin]

You have the freedom to express yourself, rather than being told that you should be seen and not heard, because you're a woman.

 

Exactly. The issue is not with freedom. The issue is that some people abuse freedom. We all have the freedom of speech and some people choose to use that gift to be hateful, homophobic, racist, sexist and cruel. We have the freedom to love who we wish and some use this freedom to hurt and abuse others. It isn't the freedom, but the fact that some people just don't know how to value freedom and treat it right.

 

I was raised with 'speak your truth' BUT 'if you have nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all.'

 

With freedom should be taught respect.

 

It's such a first world problem to say 'gosh I hate freedom.' Do you know how many people in other countries would kill for freedom? Quite literally. People have fought and died to be free. I know a lot of people can act like idiots and abuse the right, but the right of freedom is so valuable; to be free to education, to be free to speak, to be free to have opinions, to be free to marry or not, to be free to own property, to be free to walk the streets without having to take someone with you.

Edited April 10, 2015 by Nikki Sahagin

[toolforgrowth]

TherEnThe problem isn't that "modern" parents lack the support of extended family and the "village" to raise a child...the problem is that they want "stuff" (certain home, vehicle, clothing) and, women are being told they have no value as a SAHM/SAHW...then, you have lazy "fathers/husbands" who are all too happy to have a 2nd income instead of an actual wife and/or mother.

 

I agree with the sentiment that people place more value on stuff now, rather than their families. But that can also be traced back to the baby boomers, and the Gen X'ers and Millennials they spawned learned from the best. But I also believe that a good portion of them see the mistakes of their parents' generation.

 

When my GF moves in, she will have a job, earn money, and contribute financially to the household. Personally, I don't want the traditional "wife and/or mother". I've gone that route, and it ended horribly. The quality of her life is dependent upon her, not me.

 

I think its sad that some people have become so detached from intimacy that they can just pawn off their child to some daycare worker. But, cuz they were probably put in daycare themselves, they unfortunately have lost the ability to experience real bonding with their parent...

My daughter loves going to her day care. It's a fantastic place with the best care provider anyone could ask for, and my daughter adores her. It's not a question of choosing to pawn children off; it's the fact that many households simply need dual incomes to survive. My xWW tried her hand at being a stay a home mom for a bit. She claimed it would save us money in the long run.

 

She was wrong.

 

And no, I did not grow up in day care. My mom was a SAHM.

 

I can't put it into words, but a mother needs to be present with their child - especially years from birth to 3 years old. Ever hear of kids in foster care and/or adoptive situations who grow up with mental disorders? It's cuz they didn't have that "touch" from a parent in their formative years. I think that's why this generation lacks certain things/qualities (ie weddings based on a party instead of substance, kids out of wedlock, shack-ups).

I'm a big proponent of maternity leave for new mothers. But again, my daughter has gone to day care for pretty much her entire life. She gets excellent grades and highly intelligent (so much so that everybody comments on it), has excellent manners, is very responsible, and is just an all around sweet little girl. I got so lucky with her that I saw no need to have another one; I could only go downhill from here!

 

From our earliest of childhood, we develop our ability to connect, trust, and bond through the time spent with parents. If you're worried about them not socializing and/or learning to be "independent" then take them to the park to play with other kids as a SAHM...dumping them off in daycare isn't the same.

Remember, it takes a village to raise a child. My daughter has learned to not only respect her parents, but also adults in general. And day care can actually be quite the same; whether she's playing with other kids in a park or in day care, the end result is she's still interacting with other children.

 

 

You have some minimum wage worker who has to tend to yours and God knows how many kids...tell me how your kid is gonna get the same quality of attention from mommy? Also, they put your kid on a eating/naping/changing schedule based on the daycare's need to manage all kids. Well, some kids eat when they are hungry and a "schedule" is what you put a dog on.

This is where the parents need to assume responsibility for their children and do their homework to find the correct day care that meets their child/ren's needs. My provider has schedules for eating and such, yes, because she has to work around school. But it was no different at home; my daughter had nap time at the same time every day. We ate dinner at roughly the same time every night. I don't see how a routine can be okay in one setting, but not another.

 

Look, the bigger picture here is the disintegration/breakdown of the family unit by taking mothers out of the home and leaving it up to strangers and the government (public schools) to raise your kid. So, you have the government and strangers spending like 8 hrs A DAY with your child and when things pop up (ie a "teaching moment") government and strangers are gonna end up teaching your kids about life, morals, etc...funny how they are gonna do that when they already are taking God, morality, and/or civil duty/pride out of the public schools.

Mothers aren't being taken out of the home, fathers are. Divorce statistics of which parent gets more custody of the children clearly show that.

 

But I wholeheartedly agree with you about parents who allow everybody else to raise their children for them. It's one thing to use day care simply because you have no choice; I'm a single father with a single income. I have no choice but to go to to work. And while my daughter enjoys school, I'm definitely the one who raises her, not the school. That's why I believe that God should be taken out of public schools; I will raise my child with the morals and ethics I see fit, not the government (or the zealously religious). More power to you if you believe and worship, that's your right. But your rights end where mine (and my child's) begin.

 

Look, if you want a career and/or "stuff" don't have kids.

A person can have a career and kids, as long as they're willing to work at it. Some people do, and some don't. Those who do would disagree.

 

While many of us have the biological ability to reproduce, that doesn't automatically make us parenting material. And IMO, if you wanna bring a child into this world you better be ready to sacrifice your "comfort" cuz that child is dependent on YOU...also, you have a responsibility to raise a child to be a productive member of society.

I'll give you an "amen" for this! It's not the career or day care that's the issue...it's the quality of the parents themselves. A person really can be a quality parent while still having a career and sending their kid(s) to day care. And bad quality parents are bad quality parents, regardless of whether they're around their children more or not.

 

I am selfish...I like my freedom. From when I became sexually active, I sought out birth control. I would NEVER outsource my child's care to strangers and quite frankly I believe also in homeschooling.

No need to apologize for this! Having children is a choice, not a requirement. One should never have to apologize for the choices they make that don't impact anyone else.

[RedRobin]

Good old Red Robbin. You can always count on her to make up whatever she wants and turn it into a personal attack. May drop her on my ignore list soon. I have zero desire for a kid and only a thought that maybe it would be nice to be married again. (10 year marriage under my belt aready Red) Pretty much i give zero f's about any of it, but enjoy seeing trends in society. It's a hobby of mine or something.

 

Crystal Castles' post was very interesting and got me thinking... possibly if i were exposed to different millennials, of her particular trajectory, I'd not have noticed the trend. It's refreshing to read her take on things.

 

Then there's No Limit... wow... this chick is cool AF. Her cynical, but fact filled post makes perfect sense. Funny thing about her post is these things do happen. I recently had a millennial friend or girl i see or whatever proposition me to have a kid with her where I'm not involved. A donor, just as no limit mentions. Probably wouldn't donit though.

 

Meh, you just fit the pattern of over 40 something guys whining about much younger women not wanting to commit.

 

We've seen it a million times here... And elsewhere.

 

... And sure, I have no doubt that a guy with your preferences would love to lock down a much younger woman.

 

But they aren't quite the captive audience they were in generations past. Boo hoo.

[Revolver]

The lack of trust is a big factor in men and women. Social media/the internet has given people too many options/avenues to upgrade or cheat.

[Revolver]

Eh, in the past marriage was forced on people. People didn't marry for love, it was an partnership contract that helped society work and children be accounted for and raised: I bring the money, you take care of the kids and house.

 

Since there is more focus than ever on marrying for love, staying with someone is not forced anymore, so it is natural that people in Europe would rather live together and raise their children together and not be bound by a legal contract. In case they decide to split, it would be easier to do so. When relationships are by choice and not by force, it's natural that many, if not the majority, will eventually end. Just look at your friendships over the years. How many of them have resisted? I'm willing to bet that few. Similary with romantic relationships. Most will end if nobody forces us to stay.

 

I don't think it's the end of the world. It's just a change and I don't see it as negative. Women can work and support themselves and the children now, they do not have their livelihood depend on marriage anymore. I see that as a good thing.

 

And the single mom thing, again, people overreacting and freaking out. If the mom is stable, has money, the house is stable, father is also involved, it's just another model that can work just as well. Kids just need stability, not a certain model imposed by society. I am a single mother and I make low 6 figures, own a 4 bedroom house, my son is a teen and very happy, stable, good in school, no issues. Yeah, I do have a career, and I do have a housekeeper and someone who cuts my grass, and I did use daycare for one year and grandparents before that. The single mom thing is a problem when she doesn't make enough money, drinks, takes drugs, sleeps with countless of men, is abusive....

 

I much rather have freedom than be forced into anything to live my life the way others think I must. So for me it's all good.

 

You do know that you represent only a tiny percent of single mothers right? And that's the problem. The vast majority of single mothers in America are poor and uneducated

[Robert Z]

But they aren't quite the captive audience they were in generations past. Boo hoo.

 

 

He is a lot younger than you and wouldn't remember those days. Why would he view the world through the eyes of his grandfather or great grandfather?

[Robert Z]

Spoken directly from the age demographic. Quite aan articulate member of the demographic too.

 

I guess it's because this is the age group I'm with all the time, that I notice these things. I did not notice this trend among earlier generations.

 

 

 

 

This speaks more to your point.

 

 

Census data cited in a 2014 study by the Pew Research Center show that the number of married households fell to 50.5 percent in 2012 from a high of about 72 percent in 1960.

 

 

Among the less well educated, the number of married households has fallen even more. A 2011 study by Pew found that although 64 percent of college-educated Americans were married, fewer than 48 percent of those with some college or less were married. In 1960, the report found, the two groups were about equally likely to be married.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/08/fashion/weddings/falling-marriage-rates-reveal-economic-fault-lines.html?_r=0

[Xelha]

I'm almost 27, so I suppose that would make me a milennial, not sure. Anyway...

 

As a kid I remember my friends and I talked about what age we wanted to get married at. I don't remember their answers, but I do remember me saying 25.(note: I'm not saying the age was ever super important to me, just an idea of when I saw myself getting married) But then I started to get to my mid-20s and my life just wasn't where I wanted to be. I was unemployed(or underemployed, if you will) and life was a struggle. There was no job waiting for me when I got out of university like I was led to believe my entire life. After years of hard work, I had a really tough time finding even basic employment despite all my efforts. That whole experience really changed me.

 

Fast forward a few years, and now I have an okay job(low salary but at least it has a lot of potential). I'm in an amazing relationship, and I would love to get married. Honestly, if I could base my decision purely on love then I would probably be married within the next year. But then there's the money... the price of basic life necessities has risen considerably, especially housing, and even renting. I feel like 80% of my salary goes to rent alone, and all we have is a small 1 bedroom apartment. It's a decent place, but I can't imagine starting a marriage in a place like this, particularly if we end up having children.

 

Living paycheck to paycheck prevents you from doing a lot of things in life. And I live a very modest lifestyle... I spend very little on entertainment and leisure. My bf makes more than I do, but even with both our salaries, all the bills and basic costs of life prevent us from saving much money. At this point in life we couldn't afford a wedding, let alone a home or children. I've come to terms with the fact that I'd need to live in a much smaller home than I grew up in, but even then, just a simple 1 bedroom apartment is almost as much now as my parents paid for their full size 4 bedroom house.

 

I think that we will both make it eventually, but we will be forced to postpone any wedding plans for a few years, at least, due to the circumstances. I don't think that my generation is necessarily *choosing* to get married later, it's more because we feel like we have no other choice. We are perhaps more of a "planning" generation and when we picture how the rest of our lives will unfold, we just can't see ourselves getting married so young anymore. A lot of us simply can't afford it.